[quote=Keeper of the Light™]There are good christians and bad christians.
Anyhow, Lenko, my man, you can always preempt them by saying, "sure, let's discuss this over the human sacrifice we're having at the naked bonfire tonight"
that usually gets them to go away
WOO HOO NAKED BONFIRE!
grrquack.
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This is what I dislike about religious individuals. The whole point is ANYONE can go to Ethiopia or Antarctica to see it for themselves... The existance of Antarctica and Ethiopia as a 3rd world country are proven FACTS. There are millions of people who have gone there and seen it for themselves . As for religion, there are just billions of people who believe something that someone claims to have seen however many years ago.
now im not trying to drag this topic on... but just as people have claimed to see antartica, you've seen pictures... well there are many people who claim to have seen God (Jehovah's Witness') and its impossible to keep track of all the various pictures of Jesus!! you havent been to antartica, but yet you believe people who say they've been there and have pictures.....???? how can you say its proven facts if you have not seen/experienced it yourself? i mean, what if everyone that says theyve been there are just making the place up!! and everyone is in on it.....
Lenko: i appologize for your unpleasant expreiences. IMO, i dissagree with going door to door and shoving God into someones face yelling FIRE AND BIMSTONE!!!! but there are several things people do that they say God is telling them to that i disagree with, however i cannot tell them that they are wrong or right, or that God would not tell them to do this or that... only God knows and i will leave the judging up to him!
oh, and congrats... your goal of stirring things up has been accomplished!!
hahahaha
I've never seen an accurate picture of "Jesus" Every picture I've seen of him he was white. That's impossible considering the part of the world he came from. Your argument about Ethiopia and Antarctica is bunk. I don't need to respond to that
Quote:
This is what I dislike about religious individuals. The whole point is ANYONE can go to Ethiopia or Antarctica to see it for themselves... The existance of Antarctica and Ethiopia as a 3rd world country are proven FACTS. There are millions of people who have gone there and seen it for themselves . As for religion, there are just billions of people who believe something that someone claims to have seen however many years ago. Sorry, but I'm not believing in @!#$ until that bush catches on fire and starts talking to me. I'll just go about life living the way I have because I'm a good person regardless of which superhero I believe in.
OK, OK...so you can go there. You can go to heaven too, you just have to die first.
Anyway, the point about knowing what countries are out there is slightly different than knowing God. It doesn't take faith to know that Antartica is really out there, whereas it DOES take faith to know that there is a heaven and a hell.
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Anyone who says Christianity is for the weak has no idea what they are talking about. Faith takes more strength than you could ever realize. Threads like this are a great example of that. It takes a lot of strength to stand strong in your beliefs when the only purpose a lot of other people have are trying to throw you off track. I'll never understand why people want to remove God from life, when He is only about the good things.
Ok, so you say that religion get shoved in your face. As Godspeed said (and I agree with him), those types of people are going about it the wrong way. Not all Christianity agrees with trying to shove it in your face. I am more the type of person that if I am around you, and basically let you be (religion wise), then you'll see me by my actions and my words, and GOD will work on you...NOT me.
What non-believers tend to forget is that God works through us, and our lives are the greatest example of His existance. Therefore, words will often do very little in our roles as desciples. We will answer questions when asked, and direct people along the right path, but our actions speak much louder than anything else. For example, if someone seemed to talk the talk, but never walked the walk, you probably wouldn't put too much stock in this whole God fella.
ive never said all the pics are accurate, i agree with you... i dont believe that Jesus is the white, blonde hair/blue eyed person most pictures depict... but without going to antartica, how do you know that the pictures you've seen are accurate??
John Lenko wrote:
I think it's all a bunch of hogwash. You do NOT use someone else's name (especially when I don't think that name means as much to me as it does to them) to get money out of MY WALLET!
Oh, btw.. I don't believe in this afterlife or 'soul' crap either. You die, you're dead. Thanks for coming. Out of body crap is just science fiction. No one has any proof of the afterlife either.
I completely agree with you Lenko. I don't think you should have to ask for money or force your religion upon people in order to hear God's word. Where I go, church is free, chuch is optional, and a donation is optional. They pass the collection around and even tell you over the P.A. that giving is "optional" and you shouldn't feel obliged to do it. I still do occasionally if I have some money, but they don't look down upon you if you do it. Going door to door for people is not the correct way I believe, but like GodSpeed said, that's for God to decide, not me.
Going by your same train of thought, nobody has proof that after you die, you're just "nothing". It's all up in the air and neither side is science fiction until you finally die and see what happens. Nobody is supposed to have proof of the afterlife because it's all supposed to be in faith. Your love in God is strengthened when you don't know everything he does in plain fact. If it was a fact that if you are a good person, you go to heaven, you would get people who don't love God and are just using him in order to get into his kingdom (Heaven) in the afterlife. This way, by not showing that he is real, it leaves it up to the believers and the people who CHOOSE to accept God into their life to go to his Kingdom.
Honestly, I don't know what Jesus looks like and how accurate/inaccurate photos of him are, he's still Jesus, whether he is Black, Tan, White, Purple...... Anything.
read the first few posts and the last couple here;
i am in no means a religous person, my beliefs are irrelavent, but every time i hear/read the i need proof thing i am reminded of this old joke
"a huge flood occurs and this man climbs to his roof to save himself, however the flooding never stops. as he sits atop his house his lone thought that god will save him keeps him going. after a few hours a man in a rowboat comes by and asks the man if he would like a ride to land, the man rejects his offer kindly and tells the samaritan god will save me. a few hours later another samaritan comes by in a speedboat and hasks if the man would like a ride to land, again the offer is rejected kindly with god will save me. a few hours later a helicopter flies by and asks if the man would like a lift, once again kindly refusing with god will save me. a few hours later the man drowns. when the man gets to heaven he sees god and asks why god did not save him. god replies; i sent you a rowboat, i sent you a speedboat, then i sent you a helicopter, what the hell more did you want. you are lucky i even let you in here."
Got this in my email today:
Quote:
The Pastor's Cat
Dwight Xxxxx recently told a true story about the pastor of his church. He
had a kitten that climbed up a tree in his backyard and then was afraid to
come down. The pastor coaxed, offered warm milk, etc. The kitty would not
come down. The tree was not sturdy enough to climb, so the pastor decided
that if he tied a rope to his car and drove away so that the tree bent
down, he could then reach up and get the kitten.
That's what he did, all the while checking his progress in the car. He
then figured if he went just a little bit further, the tree would be bent
sufficiently for him to reach the kitten. But as he moved the car a little
further forward, the rope broke.
The tree went "boing!" and the kitten instantly sailed through the air-out
of sight.
The pastor felt terrible. He walked all over the neighbourhood asking
people if they'd seen a little kitten. No. Nobody had seen a stray
kitten. So he prayed, "Lord, I just commit this kitten to your keeping,"
and went on about his business.
A few days later he was at the grocery store, and met one of his church
members. He happened to look into her shopping cart and was amazed to see
cat food. This woman was a cat hater and everyone knew it, so he asked
her, "Why are you buying cat food when you hate cats so much?"
She replied, "You won't believe this," and then told him how her little
girl had been begging her for a cat, but she kept refusing. Then a few
days before, the child had begged again, so the Mom finally told her little
girl, "Well, if God gives you a cat, I'll let you keep it."
She told the pastor, "I watched my child go out in the yard, get on her
knees, and ask God for a cat. And really, Pastor, you won't believe this,
but I saw it with my own eyes. A kitten suddenly came flying out of the
blue sky, with its paws outspread, and landed right in front of her."
Never underestimate the Power of God and His unique sense of humor.
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
yeah but now that the guys dead and in heaven what's he suppose to do???
you supposedly have no humanly needs or wants, don't need to sleep, what would you do up in heaven for an eternity to keep you busy...what do you just throw on a white gown and halo and sing to and rejoice the lord for eternity...that sounds like it would be pretty boring to me, i mean obviously you can't do anything bad cause God's gonna know and cast you into hell with satan then what do you do down in hell to keep you busy for an eternity i'm sure demons cursing at you, burning and torturing your soul is gonna get old pretty fast and u'll eventually get used to it right or wrong???......I don't know i'd personally rather have reincarnation be true when you die your soul fills the body of another living being and you start all over again, or actually i think it might be kinda cool for my soul to get stuck on earth like a ghost, there are so many all girl schools and other cool places with naked chicks i could haunt that would never get old!!!
1996 Mazda MX-6 LS M-Series V6 "The CAVeater"
Why is it o.k. for a christian to have faith in creationism, but a non-believer cannot have faith in evolution? Religion as a whole is basically a way to explain something that humans as a whole do not understand. Scientists perform studies to see what is going to happen after we die. As a humans we are on a constant quest for knowledge. It is how you the individual interprets that knowledge that makes it unique. One individual will see a message behind the bible and interpret it to be the meaning in their life. Another individual will just see it for the history book that it is. In regards to the argument about the grandfather and the greed. Things that happen can be a coincidence. I don't think god made your grandfather send your familly the money. A lot of people will begin to feel guilty for things that they did wrong in their life as they get older. Using the argument that God gave humans free will why would God interfere with your grandfather's free will to make your life easier? Now he could have become a born again, and thought that was his way of making it up to you, but I think that would be the only way God's influence would work on him. I'm not saying that it is wrong for you to have your faith because that is what keeps you going. Like I said people are unique and will see things the way that their mind wants to read into it.
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you should be thanking your grandfather not the lord for that. He was very generous and provided you with something that you WANTED not needed. I doubt if there was a god he would be going around helping people buy AC. Thats no miracle just coincidence...if you pray for everything that you want someday you will get something you want. If you just think about things you want then someday you will get something you want. My grandmother gave me 10,000 dollars for tuition this fall...i didnt pray for it but i sure as hell thought it would be nice...and guess what...i got it without praying.
I have a situation I would like to share with you.
There's a woman that I know, Sarah. Sarah came from a family of musicians, and over time, she became an incredible singer. I could never get tired of her singing. Her mother and father were musical, and a lot of the day was spent, playing music. Her mom used to play the piano all the time. One day, the mother's husband was watching her play, and she started to struggle to find the notes. The husband asked the wife what was wrong, and she said she forgot some chords. That would be really weird if she played all the time. Over time, she eventually forgot how to play the piano (even when trying all day). Her memory started lapsing and she forgot how to do a lot. She started getting tired and she just wasn't herself. Her husband got concerned and brought her to the doctor. The doctor had no clue what was going on. They got tests and tests and no results. Eventually, the bills piled up. They said they would only go to one more doctor. It was expensive, but her husband was getting seriously worried. The doctor took some tests and a scan of her and it showed up that she had a brain tumor. Not some normal brain tumor. The tumor was the size of a baseball and took up almost half of her brain. (the side that would affect her memory). They did not think that she would make it, showing that it was in her brain and it had gone on so long. The doctors said they could do all that they could do; So they began, and it took them almost 20 hours to remove all of it. They removed all they could, and they let her recover. They weren' t sure she would be herself or even recover. They left it all in God's hands. She went home after a while and was left to rest at her house. She slowly started recovering. One day, she sat down at the piano and touched the keys. Slowly pressing them down, she eventually, after days, started doing the chords she forgot. She is now currently healthy, and fine as ever. Her and her husband came to our church, and she explained this story. Most of us had tears in our eyes, as she and her husband sang a song together that she composed, as she played the piano. Her husband had commented that they had mountainloads of bills. One day he got a letter in the mail with no name or return address. Curious, he opened the envelope, and there was a check for money for bills. He did not know the person that sent him the money. Yeah, maybe the woman was on the prayer chain. But this was a check sent to them.
This story is completely true.
Please tell me this is a coincidence. It was a miracle.
"Get right, or get left."
bliZsham wrote:I've never seen an accurate picture of "Jesus" Every picture I've seen of him he was white. That's impossible considering the part of the world he came from. Your argument about Ethiopia and Antarctica is bunk. I don't need to respond to that
He was without a doubt a semetic Jew, meaning he was off-white. If you bother to look at real iconagraphy you will see him depicted as a dark skinned fellow with curly hair and a big beard. Airey fairy fart magic Christians will depict him as they want to see him. In Africa he is very dark, in Northern Europe he is as pale as driven snow. You just haven't looked at real church relics to see the images that are considered realistic. In reality his real appearance is unknown but considering what is known he was likely shortish, olive-skinned with a beard (hebrew tradition) and not nearly as handsome as people would like to think. His colour matters far less than his wisdom.
A bunch of arguments demand attention.
We take many things on faith. We drink water having faith that it is safe. We belive NASA when they claim an achievement that very few can verify. We belive our history texts for the most part. We believe many things that we cannot see nor prove for ourselves. Why many choose to deny God is beyond me, but that is because I do not have faith so-to-speak, for me it is truth, I don't need faith when I have truth.
Do you belive in love? Can you quantify it?
Stories of Sant and the Easter bunny are not that old. Santa comes from an old legend about a man that was nowhere near as kind. St. Nicolas, later Sinter Klaus (Holland), then Santa Claus. He eventually turned into a fat jolly fellow (the night before christmas and Coca Cola co. did that) that we know today. The Easter bunny come out of 1500s Germany with the first edible bunnies being produced in the 1800s. These are relatively modern traditions. The celabration of Easter is pre-Christian, but not the bunny part.
Once in Heaven there is no limit to what you can do, how could you possibly be bored. You will not want to sin as you have cast off the fleshy bits and they are the reason for sin in the first place, so no worries there.
The most basic and compelling argument that God exists is that nothing happens without a cause. When you distill everything down to the most basic, the universe had to be "caused" and that cause cannot be anything less than the universe. IE: whatever caused the universe exists independantly and is at least as powerful. This ultimately leads non-belivers to say "OK, so what caused God?". The answer is complexe but basically it is that God being the cause of the universe is also the cause of space and time itself and therefore there can be no "before" because without space and time there can be no "before". To God, all things are simultanious, there is no "time". Time is a human concept required by our tiny intellects to make sense of things.
Is there such a thing as a simple "coincidence" in the way it is used commonly? To me, coincidence is literal. That is to say that if two things happen and they are related then they are co (as in cooperate) - incidences (as in happenings). Most use it to say that there is no relation, but I say that by definition there is a relationship between the incidenses. Simultanious causation is a difficult concept but it is real.
As for religion being a crutch or "for the weak", that has been addressed but I will just say that defending your beliefs is more difficult than denying them.
As for unseen forces making great change.. Maybe God, maybe asteroird hurled by God, maybe simple luck, but what caused the moon to orbit the way it does, and what caused that massive hole in the planet we call the "Pacific Ocean"? Laws of physics will not allow for the moon to be where it is through capture, impact or spin off (as well as bumble bee's ability to fly), and yet there it is. If the two are related, IE: the moon is a chunck of the Earth puched out of the Pacific, then why is there no evidence of water on the moon? Or is there and NASA is hiding it? Or maybe we've never actually been there at all
PAX
GLORIA Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.
Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper,
et in saecula saeculorum.
Amen
You know.. i would be more inclined to believe the writers of the Bible... if they had included a works cited page... i would really like to know where they get this information... my college professors say they wont accept a paper that doesnt have a works cited page, because they dont know where i got the info and if its true or not... so why should i believe the bible?
Of the 22 books of the new testament, some were written by the apostles themselves, they were their first hand experiences. Other were dictated, and others were recorded as memories told by them. There are no previous works to cite.
The old testament is was handed down oral tradition and were eventually recorded. A rabbi might be better able to explain torrah, but my understanding is that Rabbis began recording the oral stories of their tribes and over time Torrah was formed. Again, no previous works to cite.
PAX
chevy06 (The Confused One) wrote:
I have a situation I would like to share with you.
<snip>
They removed all they could, and they let her recover. They weren' t sure she would be herself or even recover. They left it all in God's hands. She went home after a while and was left to rest at her house. She slowly started recovering. One day, she sat down at the piano and touched the keys. Slowly pressing them down, she eventually, after days, started doing the chords she forgot. She is now currently healthy, and fine as ever.
Miracle.. of medicine! The human body is an amazing thing. For each case like hers, there are 1000 people who don't recover. Does God not love them as well? Not likely. She's just damn lucky.
(In my opinion)
chevy06 (The Confused One) wrote:Her and her husband came to our church, and she explained this story. Most of us had tears in our eyes, as she and her husband sang a song together that she composed, as she played the piano. Her husband had commented that they had mountainloads of bills. One day he got a letter in the mail with no name or return address. Curious, he opened the envelope, and there was a check for money for bills. He did not know the person that sent him the money. Yeah, maybe the woman was on the prayer chain. But this was a check sent to them.
Sob story, someone with lots of money in the church responded by sending an anonymous cheque. You're trying to convince me that a kind hearted person is an act of god? Sorry, no believer here.
I think it's great that there ARE such gracious people in the world... but there's a perfectly logic explaination for all of it.
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Hmm..so why does god tell some people to kill their babies..and others to convert as many people in his name, because their religion isn't the right one..I guess what im asking is..how can so many people be claiming to be doing the lords work..how are we supposed to believe any of them are speaking the truth. Gods never talked to me, so why should i believe he talkes to you, or even the pope for that matter? Hes supposed to be gods right hand man, yet humans elect him. Of course theres always the " God will guide them to chose the correct person" argument, funny how every arguement conveniently doesnt need any proof, just faith. And another thing..human beings have come a long way in terms of intelligence, only 300 years ago we were burning people for being witches, yet 2000 years ago people are believed to be smarter? (if there is such a term, being relative to the observer and all)
Hahahaha wrote:
<big snip>
If the two are related, IE: the moon is a chunck of the Earth puched out of the Pacific, then why is there no evidence of water on the moon? Or is there and NASA is hiding it? Or maybe we've never actually been there at all
I remember reading that
theory years ago. And how the columns of rock off the Oregon coast were the parts that "almost made it to the moon". What a load.
Sure, we don't understand everything about how the universe was formed... and maybe, just maybe, the force that made the "Big Bang" or whatever actually made the universe expand was caused by this "God" creature that some X-billion of you worship. But not me... I believe we're just here.. by strange phenomenon. Nothing "put" us here in my books. We came about. We're probably a mistake. I just hope we find other 'mistakes' out there so we can have some interstellar neighbors.
The only thing I do know... there's proof of the universe and stars and space dust and all the crap.... we just haven't got out there enough yet to understand it... but it's all there, waiting to be studied. There isn't a single shred of God left for me to study, other than stories (could be true, could be false) and other people's accounts.
I wonder if animals have these debates? Like, dolphins... if they think there's an afterlife? If they'll come back as a human? Or a tuna?
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
chevy06 (The Confused One) wrote:Quote:
you should be thanking your grandfather not the lord for that. He was very generous and provided you with something that you WANTED not needed. I doubt if there was a god he would be going around helping people buy AC. Thats no miracle just coincidence...if you pray for everything that you want someday you will get something you want. If you just think about things you want then someday you will get something you want. My grandmother gave me 10,000 dollars for tuition this fall...i didnt pray for it but i sure as hell thought it would be nice...and guess what...i got it without praying.
I have a situation I would like to share with you.
There's a woman that I know, Sarah. Sarah came from a family of musicians, and over time, she became an incredible singer. I could never get tired of her singing. Her mother and father were musical, and a lot of the day was spent, playing music. Her mom used to play the piano all the time. One day, the mother's husband was watching her play, and she started to struggle to find the notes. The husband asked the wife what was wrong, and she said she forgot some chords. That would be really weird if she played all the time. Over time, she eventually forgot how to play the piano (even when trying all day). Her memory started lapsing and she forgot how to do a lot. She started getting tired and she just wasn't herself. Her husband got concerned and brought her to the doctor. The doctor had no clue what was going on. They got tests and tests and no results. Eventually, the bills piled up. They said they would only go to one more doctor. It was expensive, but her husband was getting seriously worried. The doctor took some tests and a scan of her and it showed up that she had a brain tumor. Not some normal brain tumor. The tumor was the size of a baseball and took up almost half of her brain. (the side that would affect her memory). They did not think that she would make it, showing that it was in her brain and it had gone on so long. The doctors said they could do all that they could do; So they began, and it took them almost 20 hours to remove all of it. They removed all they could, and they let her recover. They weren' t sure she would be herself or even recover. They left it all in God's hands. She went home after a while and was left to rest at her house. She slowly started recovering. One day, she sat down at the piano and touched the keys. Slowly pressing them down, she eventually, after days, started doing the chords she forgot. She is now currently healthy, and fine as ever. Her and her husband came to our church, and she explained this story. Most of us had tears in our eyes, as she and her husband sang a song together that she composed, as she played the piano. Her husband had commented that they had mountainloads of bills. One day he got a letter in the mail with no name or return address. Curious, he opened the envelope, and there was a check for money for bills. He did not know the person that sent him the money. Yeah, maybe the woman was on the prayer chain. But this was a check sent to them.
This story is completely true.
Please tell me this is a coincidence. It was a miracle.
"Get right, or get left."
Or could this be that the person from your church, "fearing god's wrath" did what they thought was right? See the thing about our society is people do what they believe will make up for their "sins." Once again why would God interfere with this no named person's free will, but not interfere with your's, or mine? Most people need faith to function. I'm not saying that it is wrong(it gets you as an individual by), but why do you feel the need to justify your beliefs to some one who doesn't believe? Push things that cannot be explained? The Egyptians, Romans, and the Greeks thought they were right; until some one else showed them the true faith was to have one God. That is the interesting thing about God, or Gods. You get the proper magician to show you the magic and people will believe anything is possible. Tell me this... does your god care more about you than the person without a home drinking cough syrup, or is that more of his "free will?"
hmm
you dont believe in god or the devil
but they believe in you
Cory Forson wrote:Hmm..so why does god tell some people to kill their babies..and others to convert as many people in his name, because their religion isn't the right one..I guess what im asking is..how can so many people be claiming to be doing the lords work..how are we supposed to believe any of them are speaking the truth. Gods never talked to me, so why should i believe he talkes to you, or even the pope for that matter? Hes supposed to be gods right hand man, yet humans elect him. Of course theres always the " God will guide them to chose the correct person" argument, funny how every arguement conveniently doesnt need any proof, just faith. And another thing..human beings have come a long way in terms of intelligence, only 300 years ago we were burning people for being witches, yet 2000 years ago people are believed to be smarter? (if there is such a term, being relative to the observer and all)
Yeah, but you get the people who take it to the extreme and say that mass murders are "God's will". Those kinds of things are not God's will or God speaking to you. If you read the bible, you will find that is exactly what God WOULD NEVER say to you. Some people use that word too loosely. Honestly, I never do anything in "the name of God" except pray. I am a good person I think and am guided by Jesus and his teachings, I accept God into my heart and he can guide me, but I don't do anything in his word.
Honestly, i'm too tired right now to argue but basically humans elect the Pope because nobody else is going to. The Cardinals are very educated people in the religion and make wise choices, even if they are locked in there discussing it for weeks. Does God actually come down and speak to the Cardinals? No. Are they guided by God's words and decisions? Yes. But you exactly proved a religious person's view. Human's as a whole have been relentless, violent, and ignorant for the past thousands of years, but it took one man, Jesus, to prove that even during times of all that, he could still be wise, caring, and thoughtful, that's what makes him a unique person.
I'm sorry, i'm tired and im not gonna read this over, i'll come back tomorrow when i get some sleep.
I just got a couple of questions.........
why does everyone get so worked up over who believes in god or not? is it your problem if i don't belive in god?, if there is god, i think my not believing in him will be between me and him when the time comes that i leave this place.
I personally do not believe in an allmighty god in a place called heaven, I do however have respect for christians and every other faith. and i don't really care who believes in god, by whatever name they call him, its not my buisniss who or what someone else prays to, so why should people concern themselves with others belifs..........well im rambling now, so im gonna hit post or else this will make less sense than it already does
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
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Hey... how about the "Church of Lenko"??? Give me money!!
you should actaully do that. if you area church, then you dont have to pay taxes. best bussiness in the world
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
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He is not generous at all. He is one of the most selfish, self-centered men on the Earth. That is why none of my family has spoken to him in over 15 years and my mother is the only one trying to make amends with him. You are so naive. The money was not provided because we wanted a/c or anything else like that. The money was a symbol that God is more powerful than you can image. He can change the heart of a cold old man. The money was a reward for my mother's faithfulness to God and being open-minded and reaching out to him when no one else would. Say coincidence all you want, you have no faith so I don't blame you. But this happens time and time again.
im the naive one. you said you needed money becuase your a/c broke and your grandfather gave it to you. guess what...people change. maybe he felt guilty that his family hasnt talked to him in 15 years...i think it is naive to believe that god cared enough about your ac to melt the icy cold heart of your grandfather. i said it before and ill say it again...if you pray for everything you want eventually you will get something you prayed for becuase guess what...people get what they want sometimes...how many times have you prayed for something that you havent gotten?
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Well congratulations, people get gifts all the time. My grandmother gave me $6000 to buy my first car. I didn't pray about that either. This is different though. Christians want feedback on their faith, no one wants a relationship that is solely giving. The monetary reward was the feedback this time. But that is one of the few rewards it is. Most of the time it is not. I'm sure my mother would gladly have a loving father rather than $5000. If you can't see that that's also part of the reward I feel sorry for you. We did thank my grandfather, but is almost impossible to believe that one day, an individual such as himself would just hand over $5000 for really no reason. If life is all just a bunch of coincidences than I will be really sad because you ultimately have no control over your life. Have fun while you're on Earth, but in the scheme of reality we aren't human beings, we are eternal beings. And if you are going to waste your 80+ years just having fun, you might end up regretting it once you spend the next infinity years not having so much fun. 80 years out of billions and billions of years is not really worth it.
if your mother would rather have a loving father than 5gs then why did got not make her father a loving person instead of the 5 grand? that would be the "christian thing" for god to do.
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Well have you ever attempted to open the Bible? All the answers you need are right there in plain text for you to read. I know it's a big book and intimidating..but give it a try. I believe Jesus is God's son because unlike every other prophet before and after him, he was able to defeat the biggest obstacle of all, death. Ordinary people don't just overcome something like that. Heck, the pope is still dead isn't he. You might say it's hearsay, but thousands watched him die, and many saw him after the resurrection. He stayed on Earth for a few days, not as a ghost, but as a man. He ate with his disciples and they felt the wounds on his hands and feet. Later he ascended to Heaven but not by means of death. Ultimately God communicates his word to me. Yes the Bible is a helpful tool, but by reading it and deciphering it on your own is how you found out God's true will for your life. Church is good because it clears up certain things and gives you ideas as to want God is saying in his scriptures. School wouldn't be necessary if we could just pick up a textbook and teach everything to ourselves. The same goes for spirituality. You can't really understand everything in the Bible by only reading it by yourself. You learn through discussion with others. So who communicates history, math, science to you? Your teachers and whatever other research you do on it. The same goes for Christianity. I don't know why you have such a hard time understanding religion but not history class. Both are pretty well documented, and both are communicated in basically the exact same form. If you don't want the free gift of salvation, cool, no sweat off my back. Do me a favor and read the book of Revelations, its not very long, and its very interesting and I promise it will keep your attention. Christians don't want to control your life with rules, they want you to live your life to the fullest for eternity, not just your measely 80 years here on Earth. All of which you won't even remember in 1000 years from now let alone over a trillion.
once again you are the naive one for assuming that i have never read the bible and that i am intimidated by big books. the bible is not a book it is a library. i have read and debated much of the bible in school. it has been translated through many different languages many many many different times. this can be noted by the thousands of inconsistencies and impossibilities within the bible.
http://www.messianic.com/articles/translation.htm
also i understand religion quite well...my understanding is inversely proportional to my urge to participate in any form of organized religion
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well there are many people who claim to have seen God (Jehovah's Witness') and its impossible to keep track of all the various pictures of Jesus!!
pictures and photographs are very different. there are obviously no photographs of jesus because he existed before cameras.
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i dont believe that Jesus is the white, blonde hair/blue eyed person most pictures depict...
i have never seen a picture of jesus with blonde hair
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The old testament is was handed down oral tradition and were eventually recorded. A rabbi might be better able to explain torrah, but my understanding is that Rabbis began recording the oral stories of their tribes and over time Torrah was formed. Again, no previous works to cite.
the Torah is the first 5 books of the conventional christian bible
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Human's as a whole have been relentless, violent, and ignorant for the past thousands of years, but it took one man, Jesus, to prove that even during times of all that, he could still be wise, caring, and thoughtful, that's what makes him a unique person.
Jesus was the first caring wise and thoughtful person in the world?? come on....
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just to set the record straight i could really care less whether people believe in god or not. I do not make it a point to try and make people not believe in god. I try to respect other peoples religious choices and usually make it a point to not talk about my beliefs becuase i know that some people get offended. I only started making posts in this thread to try and bring a different point of view into things...
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