Quote:
Going by your same train of thought, nobody has proof that after you die, you're just "nothing". It's all up in the air and neither side is science fiction until you finally die and see what happens. Nobody is supposed to have proof of the afterlife because it's all supposed to be in faith
That's kind of a bleak outlook to tell the truth... I often think about whether God exists and have my doubts sometimes but on the other hand I want there to be a God... a question for you non-believers... are you afraid of death? because if there is no Heaven once you die, you are erased, gone, with no recollection of your past life... that sure would make me afraid to die if I knew my entire existence would vanish like that. brings us to the whole meaning of life thing
I am not religious but I still am a Christian and although I believe in evolution and don't go to Churxg, I still live my life hoping to go to a Heaven...
Quote:
yeah but now that the guys dead and in heaven what's he suppose to do???
you supposedly have no humanly needs or wants, don't need to sleep, what would you do up in heaven for an eternity to keep you busy...what do you just throw on a white gown and halo and sing to and rejoice the lord for eternity...that sounds like it would be pretty boring to me, i mean obviously you can't do anything bad cause God's gonna know and cast you into hell with satan then what do you do down in hell to keep you busy for an eternity i'm sure demons cursing at you, burning and torturing your soul is gonna get old pretty fast and u'll eventually get used to it right or wrong???......I don't know i'd personally rather have reincarnation be true when you die your soul fills the body of another living being and you start all over again, or actually i think it might be kinda cool for my soul to get stuck on earth like a ghost, there are so many all girl schools and other cool places with naked chicks i could haunt that would never get old!!!
I've thought the same things. I'm not so sure I just want to put on the white gown and sing. That would be my own hell. Then again, I think looking at naked girls and having no body would be almost as bad, but I'd take it over the white gown scenario any day.
Christians have a double standard. Good things and bad things happen in this world. Christians always credit god with making the good things happen but never blame him for the bad. Not so long ago, there were several hurricanes in Florida and on the news one woman was thanking god to be alive. Sure, she is optimistic but on the insurance paperwork, that disaster is considered and act of god.
If someone blew up your house but let you live, would you be happy with them for letting you live or angry at them for blowing up your house?
2002 Cavalier 2200 5spd
Not true, God lets bad things happen as well to punish. In the end times He will return through his seven angels to punish the unrighteous justly.
Smile, Jesus loves you!!!!! <><
Manchild-ProPain, out now, Sphereofhiphop.com
And exactly who was god punishing with those natural disasters? How about the Tsunami early this year? What about 9/11?
2002 Cavalier 2200 5spd
I think it is so interesting how science tries to make order of everything, tries to place everything in a nice little explanation to help us sleep at night. Yet their explanation for humans being here, and the beginning of the earth, is the most random and unorderly thing anyone could ever come up with. Ironic, I don't think so.
Afterlife - I feel that there is small proof of an afterlife, I know that I get serious cases of deja vu in areas I have never been before in my current life. I do beleive in a form of reincarnation, meaning that my memories remain alive but my body is gone and my memories are transferred to a new body, animal or human, what have you. But that is just my view, it sounds a little crazy but it works for me
I am not afraid of death as it is a part of life. You are born you do things and then you die.
I think that if I am ever lucky enough to live to old age, I am sure that I would not want to be "alive" in heaven or wherever else as a person in my same shell and be able to watch over people. I have lived my life and done what I could to make it better and people around me better, I would jsut want to go at that point to sleep and never wake up.
Quote:
I think it is so interesting how science tries to make order of everything, tries to place everything in a nice little explanation to help us sleep at night. Yet their explanation for humans being here, and the beginning of the earth, is the most random and unorderly thing anyone could ever come up with. Ironic, I don't think so.
that is a ridiculous statement...anyone with a basic knowledge of modern science should realize that.
i do not believe in reincarnation for one reason. If everyone was reincarnated how come only a very small amount of people have even small traces of past life memories. People make up lots of intresting theories and religions to help them sleep at night becuase it is nearly impossible for the human mind to concieve its own non-existence.
Supercharged 95 BMW 540i M-Sport
Jive wrote:I think it is so interesting how science tries to make order of everything, tries to place everything in a nice little explanation to help us sleep at night. Yet their explanation for humans being here, and the beginning of the earth, is the most random and unorderly thing anyone could ever come up with. Ironic, I don't think so.
Ironic that organized religion is not much better. I think both Science and religion, in how different they try to be, end up being more and more alike.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
SPITfire wrote:a question for you non-believers... are you afraid of death? because if there is no Heaven once you die, you are erased, gone, with no recollection of your past life... that sure would make me afraid to die if I knew my entire existence would vanish like that. brings us to the whole meaning of life thing I am not religious but I still am a Christian and although I believe in evolution and don't go to Churxg, I still live my life hoping to go to a Heaven...
I'm not afraid of death... more that I am happy I was alive to begin with... and I'm going to make the most I can of every single day, knowing that when it's over, it's over. I'd rather not die today... but if I do? Oh well... For me, there is no second chance. I don't believe in ghosts or afterlife or heaven and hell. I am here and now... this is my chance. I thank my parents for spawning me.. and I hope one day to spawn offspring of my own and maybe they'll enjoy life too... but I don't think there's some fabulous afterlife waiting for me.
Here's a weird one for ya... I remember my dreams sometimes.... weird ones. Realistic ones. And then later on... maybe a week.. maybe a month... maybe a year down the road, I'll be experiencing something.... like yesterday, it was reading a post on an online forum.. and I knew EXACTLY what it was going to say... because I'd already dreamt it. And sure enough, it was exactly as it happened in my "dream". Foretelling the future? As if there was no fate that I could make for myself? Who knows...
...j
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Quote:
that is a ridiculous statement...anyone with a basic knowledge of modern science should realize that.
I don't pretend to know alot about science, I choose to put the majority of my studing in to Biblical studies. However, the part of science that deals with the beginning of the earth and how we as humans came about, I feel I am pretty knowledgable, mostly because it deals with the direct debate with creationism. Something I feel very strongly about. So, with this said, why is that statement ridiculous?
Quote:
Ironic that organized religion is not much better. I think both Science and religion, in how different they try to be, end up being more and more alike.
I agree with you to a certain extent. Both far sort when they try to explain what can't be explained.
...and both are far too caught up in internal politics, greed, and bull@!#$ that it's no wonder that, if there is a God, it's why he supped with us--his work was becoming quite lame
.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
\"If you live your life like there is no god, better hope to hell that there really isn't one"
1971 camaro 427 --- here!
Stock... and loving every minute of it.
2.2L ECOTEC wrote:\"If you live your life like there is no god, better hope to hell that there really isn't one"
I realize that's just another quote from somewhere else... but c'mon.... obviously if I don't believe in God... I live my life like there isn't one.. be kinda stupid otherwise
And I can't hope to hell... because it doesn't exist
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
John...Have you ever seen the Ice Capades? Or a Hanson concert?
How about an Oprah marathon? Or listening to Alanis Moirsette sing?
Hell does exist--we do a much better job than we realize at creating it.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
ROFL!
On a side note... I came across this site today:
It talks about backmasking... playing Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin backwards... (stairway to hell? heh)
I like this one:
Quote:
First of all, either God is a completel failure or does not exist. Why? The greatest thing He created was us, or so you'd all like to think, and that's just embarrassing. Take a look at the world, the ignorance, and hell, the posts in this forum. If God is responsible for this, hail Satan. God is all powerful. God would not want evil to exist. Evil exists. Simple logic, it's all bull@!#$. Religion saves no one; it starts WARS.
Wonder why people heard voices while talking to a burning bush? THEY WERE ON DRUGS! AND PEOPLE WERE TWICE AS DUMB 2000 YEARS AGO AS THEY ARE NOW!
Everyone believes what they want to believe. People fear nonexistence. People are too stupid to explain everything. The result is religions. The same goes for listening to music backwards. You can read the lyrics a person has come up with for the "backwards messages" while listening to the song, and they will seem to make sense. Listen to a completely different set of lyrics, and they could just as easily make sense. Even something as simple as "Play backwards. Hear words sung" is being argued as something else. Even foward lyrics can be confused with other things. I used to think the song "Get your freak on" was "Get your freaky ho". I was sad when I learned the truth. Basically you're all hearing a sound similiar to "Satan" and filling in the words around it.
All of this, and the previous posts, proves you're idiots, and yes, that includes me. I'm just self aware.
Comment posted by getalife at 2:46 PM (Permalink)
Kinda applies to this thread too
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Only one thing that bothered me about that post. Humans being an embnarrassing grestest creation. I feel like there are a lot of people that could argue just how great we as a race really are. Our complexity speaks for itself. There are simple everyday functions that depen on many steps to happen the same way everytime for the function to work correctly. Whatever, or whoever created us, knew what "it" was doing, and did a good job. Not everybody can just wake up one day and give us life.
I agree with that part actually
this "God" character goes and makes this nice planet for us to rule over, and all we do is go and screw it all up. Fine work us humans do
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Quote:
I think it is so interesting how science tries to make order of everything, tries to place everything in a nice little explanation to help us sleep at night. Yet their explanation for humans being here, and the beginning of the earth, is the most random and unorderly thing anyone could ever come up with. Ironic, I don't think so.
Wow that sounds exactly like my view of religion, how they tried to explain what they didnt know with huge factless leaps. So lets have a short comparison, shall we? According to the bible, now please, correct me if i'm wrong here, for i, admittedly have only read genesis, So Adam and eve were the first two humans made in gods image, and after being cast out of the garden of eden they spawned all of humanity? yet science tells us that is a physical impossibility, you need,( im not sure on the exact number) but it was like at least 32 separate bloodlines or something? The bible says that go created earth the stars and the universe in 7 days, in actuality stars and planets are formed from a combination of interstellar gases, dust and gravity in ionized nebulas over a very long period of time. We know how earth got here, its not really a big mystery. If your talking about the big bang theory thats another argument all together, but from an astronomical standpoint theres really no way you can disprove the basic creation of stars and planets. But they would have no knowledge of that, so of course they would make up their own stories. If you believe in the bible 100% and no science whatsoever the earth would apparently be like 6000 years old, again, please correct me if im wrong here, this is just stuff i recall reading, anyway we obviously know that isn't true, we've found ancient Egyptian artifacts dating back to 4500 B.C, or roughly 6,500 years ago. I wont get into an evolution vs. Creationism argument here, theres a huge 30 something page thread on that already, and i think they summed it up pretty well.
In any case i prefer science, because at least science tries to figure out the "whys" and the "hows", instead of just blindly believing in something virtually no one can prove. Yes A lot of Science is made up of "theorys", theorys that we cant necessarily prove, but make everything else work out. An example of this would be black holes, since we can't see them exactly (being that all electromagnetic radiation cant escape the event horizon) but we know they have to be there, even tho a singularity such as that defies previously known physics, Einstiens "Theory" of general relativity tells us they have to be there, to explain the gravitational problems they create. The good thing about that, at least a theory can be disproved, and if it is the scientific community will embrace the new theory or facts. So if you can disprove Einstien theory of general relativity, please, by all means, i will accept your facts. Until then, ill leave the science to the scientists.
I'm probably the last person (at this point) you'd suspect to defend the bible... but from what I understand.. those "seven days" aren't 24 hour days.
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Eh... here's a wild one for ya..
"Miss S" a 14 year old girl here in BC's Childrens Hospital. She's got cancer, and is undergoing treatment for it. She had a tumor removed from her leg, and faces amputation. Thing is.. she's a Jehovah's Witness... so she's in court trying to fight having a blood transfusion. Apparently it's against her faith to have a blood transfusion.
So let's see... her religion could very well kill her... sounds like a good enough reason to me to say "@!#$ religion"
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Quote:
The bible says that go created earth the stars and the universe in 7 days, in actuality stars and planets are formed from a combination of interstellar gases, dust and gravity in ionized nebulas over a very long period of time.
As Lenko pointed out, we have no idea how long those seven days really were.
Quote:
We know how earth got here, its not really a big mystery.
So how did the earth get here?
Quote:
If you believe in the bible 100% and no science whatsoever the earth would apparently be like 6000 years old
Again, we have no knowledge of time before the Old Testament (At least from a christian stand point). We know from fossils and artifacts like you say that the earth is probably pretty old.
Quote:
In any case i prefer science, because at least science tries to figure out the "whys" and the "hows", instead of just blindly believing in something virtually no one can prove.
First of all, scicnce can only tell us "how" something happens not "why". Secondly, there is much to the Bible that can be proven and has been proven. There are over 200 ancient documents that mention the Bible in it. We have been able to excavate many sites and verify that they were the exact sites mentioned in the Bible. We have been able to verify that there was a man named Jesus that was born around the time of the Bible account, which was said to become the king of man. Now wheather that Jesus was the Christian Jesus is a different story, that we can't prove.
There are some many things that science can not prove or even begin to explain because these things fall outside the boundries of observation, including God. On the other hand, christians can't prove the very thing that drives us in our faith, which is Jesus. But we do feel it, just as we feel emotions and feelings. We know that they are there even though we can't see them or touch them, we know that they are there because we have felt them. So if we can believe that we have intangible emotions, why can't we believe that we have an intangible God?
Quote:
So how did the earth get here?
Earth was formed, as well as the other terrestrial planets as our sun, a normal star just like every other one out there, was forming. terrestrial planets such as earth are formed in the accretion disk around a forming star, the accretion disk is made up of gas and dust, many types of different elements forming together and getting hotter form planets in the accretion disk. This also explains why, for the most part,all of the planets are within a few degrees of each other as they orbit the sun.All the solid remnants of this process are in an asteroid belt between mars and Jupiter. Jovian planets such as Jupiter and Saturn are formed in the accretion disk as well, but take up the exess gases instead. Plain and simple.
Quote:
Again, we have no knowledge of time before the Old Testament (At least from a christian stand point). We know from fossils and artifacts like you say that the earth is probably pretty old.
Yes the earth is very old, but i don't quite understand how you can say we have no knowledge before the old testament. Could you please explain this, admittedly, I don't know much of the Christian stand point. I mean, we know dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, just by the remains we find, but beyond that there is a lot thats purely speculation. Not to mention theres thousands of years of history before jesus even lived. Yes, your right, Jesus did live and jesus did die, im not disputing that. Theres plenty of evidence supporting that. But as far as a God entity goes, there were plenty of other gods before the christian one. Each with no evidence to support it, just faith. Almost every culture believed in something, so why arnt they worshiping the right one? Do you also believe in a Shiva, Zues and Ra?
Quote:
As Lenko pointed out, we have no idea how long those seven days really were.
Well of course we don't, but as i pointed out, through astronomy we know it takes longer then that. And since no one was around to view it, why did the writers of genesis claim it only took seven days? They weren't around to see it either, so the only other option would be that god had told them this for fact, and God surely would have knowledge of our calender system since he stated particularly 7 days. But god is infoulable, so this is one instance where god and science conflict. Of course they had limited knowledge of astronomy back then, i mean if you believe them you might as well believe in a geocentric universe, because thats all we knew back then.
Quote:
There are some many things that science can not prove or even begin to explain because these things fall outside the boundries of observation, including God. On the other hand, christians can't prove the very thing that drives us in our faith, which is Jesus. But we do feel it, just as we feel emotions and feelings. We know that they are there even though we can't see them or touch them, we know that they are there because we have felt them. So if we can believe that we have intangible emotions, why can't we believe that we have an intangible God?
Very true, i can't disprove the existence of god any more then you can prove it. all i know is how i feel, and the idea of an all seeing all knowing entity controlling every aspect of every living organisms life..well it just feels ridiculous to me. I don't really see how feeling emotion proves the existence of god, they are two very different things. Humans are capable of feeling emotion through neurotransmitters emitted by your nervous system in your brain. Theres a physiological explanation to most of it, tho admittedly its not an exact science. This is how we can make prescriptions for depression, by playing with the amount of said neurotransmitters. You'd be surprised how much of a chemical imbalance can affect a human being.
Cory Forson: thank you for saying many things that i was too lazy to say. That was a very informed and civilized post.
on a side note...your discussion about chemical imbalances reminded me of an article i read the other day. Ever heard of temporal lobe disorders? There has been lots of recent studies exploring the temporal lobes and the effects of disorders to the temporal lobe including ADD, migraine headaches, memory problems and guess what...abnormal religious preoccupation.
Quote:
Temporal Lobe Functions
Auditory
Ventral visual stream
Processing of auditory input
Visual object recognition and categorization
Long term storage of sensory input
Amygdala – adds affective or emotional tone to sensory input and memories
Hippocampus – cells code places in space and allow us to navigate space and remember where we are.
Moral or religious preoccupation is a common symptom with temporal lobe dysfunction. I have a little boy in my practice who, at age 6, made himself physically sick by worrying about all of the people who were going to hell. Another patient spent 7 days a week in church, praying for the souls of his family. He came to see me because of his temper problems, frequently directed at his family, which were often seen in response to some perceive moral misgiving or outrage. Another patient came to see me because spent hours focused on the “mysteries of life” could not get any work done and was about to lose his job as a writer for a Bay Area magazine. All of these patients had temporal lobe abnormalities.
Supercharged 95 BMW 540i M-Sport
