Steve Webb wrote:No need to drill in Alaska. No need for hydrogen. Michael Savage has the right idea.

Oil for Illegals

Approximatley 20 million illegal mexican immigrants come in to this country every year.
Mexico is sitting on BILLIONS of barrels of cheap oil. More oil than they know what to do with. These illegal immigrants, or "temporary guest workers" as Bush likes to call them, are draining our country dry.Through their unwillingness to pay taxes, their expecting free healthcare (which they receive thanks to the ACLU) , and their complete and total refusal to do anything to help the country that is taking care of them is raising the cost of living for everyone of us who DO pay taxes.

So we should tell Mr. Bush to trow a pair, head down to mexico, tell Vicente Fox to give the US 1 barrel of oil for every illegal immigrant who we have to support.


That my friends is the solution.


Liberalism is a mental disorder.

good day.

You're a dumbass. We need illegal immigrants cause you and your buddies won't go and pick the strawberries. And they do pay taxes. These are starving people who just want work, they risk their lives crossing the border, doing whatever it takes.

Republicans like to ignore the economic cost of NOT having this labor to pick the veggies and fruits off the farms. The US deficit would rage out of control within months thanks to us having to buy some many of our veggies and fruits elsewhere..

Then to say something to stupid like they are draining out country dry is retarded. Your mom and grandma buying third-world made crap at Walmart, and then stopping off to fill up their SUV is what's bleeding this country dry. I bet on the pie chart of the deficit, illegals sending money to Mexico is probably less than 2%.


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Oh OK. So you think everyone that comes across the border with mexico wants to pick strawberries? Maybe in fantasy land buddy. How about the ones that come here to sell drugs, steal cars, rape woman, or start gangs? Yes some come here to work, and they work hard. But many come here to work the system.
Yes they risk their lives crossing the border ILLEGALLY. It would'nt be so dangerous if they were to actually become citizens. But they don't plan on doing that. .They Don't plan on speaking English.Thay don't plan on learning anything about the country. If they don't plan on becoming Americans why should they beable to work in america? The state of Arizona has actually been sued because Illegal aliens trying to illegally cross the border with mexico have died out in the desert. The suit claims they died because the state of Arizona did'nt provide proper drinking water out in the middle of friggin nowhere. Does that make sense to you? Guess whos paying for the lawyers suing on the side of the illegals? The ACLU. and apparently you support that..
This is'nt about Republican/Democrat. Because they both have done nothing to stop the problem. Democrats want illegals for their votes, Republicans want illegals for the cheap labor. Remember how there were like two senators in the country who were trying to stop the new national security legislation a few months ago? why were they opposed? I'll tell you why. Because the new bill did NOTHING to make our borders more secure. It allowed illegal immigrants to get drivers licenses. Those two senators were the only ones that realized what was going on and they got shut down, both by the media on the left and mosat of the republicans on the right.
If securing our own boarders is not a top priority, then we are surley going to suffer an emense toll farther down the line. Why you ask? because Muhammed Atta and his band of terrorist thugs had drivers licenses from 15 states. And how did they get here? They ILLEGALLY EMMIGRATED. When we're talking about illegal immigrants, we're not just talking about mexicans. We're talking about nicarauguanians, els alvadorians, puerto ricans, russians, nigerians, the list goes on and on. But be sure of one thing my friend, they are not all here to pick strawberries. As we (or at least I) found out on september 11th.
So open your eyes. look around. Think about it. And then tell me why border security should not be on our list of priorities. Or you could just call me a dumbass again, I'm sure that would make you feel real intelligent.

liberalism is a mental disorder -michael savage


good day,

Steve Webb



My other car is an interceptor.

Yea lets drill oil in Alaska.....Great and dandy, now that still leaves the cost of gasoline at the same price. lol. You don't honestly think this would reduce the cost of gasoline do you? Everybody should just invest in a bike, lol.


Josh
SLK 32

"How about the ones that come here to sell drugs, steal cars, rape woman, or start gangs?" - oh, you mean one of those 1 / 5 million immigrants. No, most are cleaning cow guts off the wall of slaughterhouses for virually nothing, or other jobs no-one else is willing to take. The ones you are talking about are a VERY small percentage of immigrants(and I doubt anyone would sneak into America to rape women, there are women in Mexico tand every other country around the world you know, so I don't think anyone's going through the trouble just for that)




I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?

that might not be WHY they come here, but believe me, it happens. And they think it is OK because they do it all the time in their country. There are literally hundreds of thousands of illegals in a gang call NC13 or somthing to that effect. It started in California (naturally) and when CA implemented its' "three strike" law (which gives jail time for multiple offenders) most of the gang packed up and headed to other states that don't have such laws. Wisconsin, new Jersey, Montana.

If you don't want to beleive me, fine. I must just be making everything for laughs. I wish that were the case, beleive me, I do.

Steve webb


My other car is an interceptor.

You do know that plenty of native born americans do the same, don't you? Other than that, what makes you think that an illegal immigrant is any more likely to do these things than a legal immigrant? Considering they're both in the same boat(figuratively lol) coming to america, they're all just as likely to fall under bad influence, and as things progress (especially when you have a group mentality - aka sheep mentality - like most of human kind)they begin do bad things.

But if you don't like Illegals, then surely you're happy about having half the border protrol today as we had pre 9/11. Boy aren't our leaders great protectors? LOL.




I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?

Hell most of the illegal immigrants are smarter than us anyway. When and if they become citizens they generally don't acquire much debt if any at all. I knew a couple different familys that got their citizinship and they go in togethier buy a big f'n truck and have it paid off in a short time. They'd all work in the same place and car pool.

At least the illegal immigrants work, we can't say that about a certain % of the US population.

Also, WTF does this have to do with drilling gas in Alaska?


Josh
SLK 32

Immigrants do the stuff most Americans are too good to do. Sure, they're taking up jobs... that most people don't care to do because they're "above" it.

But then again, I guess Tyler Durden said it best: "We were raised by television to believe that we'd be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars -- but we won't. And we're learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed-off."



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Maybe somebody can answer this for me, its a question I have long been trying to understand the reasons for the world not doing it. First off we have the ability to turn human Sh!+ into drinking water, so why do we burn all of our used oil. Obviously it would take some money to refine it into a useable product again, but with modern technology it seems like a logical thing to pursue.

Maybe I have missed out on things and there could be someone already doing this but I guess I dont know about it if there is. Granted there would be very few products that could be made from used motor oil but it would have to cut down on some usage of natural resources.

actually, they do recycle old motor oil. they just re-refine it to separate out the weights, and package it again.




Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Oh I'd love to do some "drilling" in Alaska, some of you chat old timers know what I'm talking about

^^^ All is GAM... Except for all that is RAT.

KOTL & RRC:
Oils are routinely recycled by filtering and re-mixing synthetics with conventional oils. The problem is that it's not altogether cheap enough to be done for all oil products, and it usually yeilds a lower quality product in the end. Usuing it as fuel isn't a great idea because some synthetics don't break down properly during combustion.. ie, some people that used old motor oil as fuel oil in heaters sometimes get very heavy black soot in their exhaust pipes and sometimes get chimney fires...

Anyhow..

Recycling oil is a great idea, and hopefully we'll have a way to re-distill and renew the oil that is here now in a cheap way that makes it viable to do large scale.



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I figued somthing had been attempted. It would make a lot of sense to do this, though expensive I am sure, it may come to a time where that is the only option left. We might as well spend the money now to find an easy way to do this for the near future.

Actually, there are numerous vegetable based lubricants (IIRC Rapeseed oil) that are actually as good or better, and Ethanol or biodiesel are renewable and fairly cheap fuels.

The problem is that:
a: they don't have the power output of conventional gasoline,
b: they haven't had the technological development that gasoline has had.

Diesel will be a good alternative once it becomes more prevalent.. It's VERY big in Europe, and I don't see what the hold up is on this side of the pond... people have always been out for cheap and reliable transportation, and currently, only VW and IIRC Mercedes Benz offered a Diesel engine in their passenger cars in the last 15 years.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the next car I get will be a diesel or hybrid... You can get tax credits for hybrids here, hopefully it's going to happen sooner rather than later that you don't get tax incentives for buying SUV's.



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I like the idea of drilling in Alaska myself. This has been a topic in my environmental science class lectures before, and the area in which they want to drill is a very small portion of an extremely large landmass. Off-shore oil in the Gulf of Mexico is also another way to go. When they make a hybrid car that performs like and Evo, I could see myself buying one. I'm all about the world and all that, but the size of the area being considered for drilling is like comparing the size of Oahu, hawaii to the size of Alaska. Maybe not even that big. It's not that big and if it provides temporary relief, it may be a good idea.

People feel that the oil companies will come in and destroy every single living, breathing animal that stands in their way. Not true, it's closer to the opposite of that rather. Halliburton has a large operation based out of Grand Junction, CO (my home) and they have been very careful with the environment and have been very strict on regulations that far exceed those set by the EPA. They interested in setting up shop and when it is depleted, leaving the area in the way they found it, virtually untouched. They also have found places to re-locate animals very close by. Animals very close in relativity to Caribou (namely Elk). Overall, they should be allowed clearance to do their op and they should be monitored on a continual basis. That way, everyone wins until we find a solution to the problem.

Also, a question for this forum since we are all on the topic of energy. In the mid-west, they use ethanol to power vehicles. It's safe, reliable, and comes from natural by-products of corn and beans if I am not mistaken. So, why not use something such as that for a mass-producd alternative fuel? Many nations, including the United States have a large enough crop yield or could produce a large enough crop yield in which this dream could be a reality. What do you guys (and girls) think of that?


I'll have a sig someday....................

The problem isn't the area of spoilage vs the size of the reserve, it's the fact that it's not going to output as much as most people hope. And the other problem is that even once everything is all nice and shiney and ready to go, it won't matter anyhow because there are too few refineries to actually extract the useful stuff out of the crude (it's not light sweet crude like arabic oil, it's actualy very dense and mineralised, so LOTS of refining). The other thing to consider: It costs over $49 USD to extract and refine a barrel of oil in the USA, yet it costs just $16 USD to do it on-site in the gulf. The money factor of home-grown oil production is just astronomical.

As far as the extraction area and techniques, It can be made to be very environmentally clean, no question... however, the hitch isn't the extraction area, it's delivering to a refinary, which in the case of Alaska, means huge pipelines to Alberta-based primary refinaries (natural Gas, Gasoline), and then again into pipelines and on to either Secondary refinaries in CO. or IIRC WA (for heavy distillates of oil). Again, massive pipelines... In Alaska, the plan was to either link into the existing pipeline, or to construct a second pipeline that would come close to paralelling the current pipe... both of which require bi-secting a wild life refuge that house Caribou... The existing pipe and the planned pipe already disrupt natural migration patterns, and the Inuit that live in the area of Anwr already have to leave their reserve to hunt and gather (per their treaty with the US gov't). Also, the main roadblock is that the area that the drilling would take place in is owned by the Natives as a reservation... The gov't. would have to carry on a long and heralded tradition of breaking treaties, and then paying almost nothing in comparison to the revenue that's being generated... (I'm not excusing Canada either... don't get your undies in a bunch).

Probably the Gas/oil reserves in the Gulf of Mexico will be able to sustain you, and that's actually fortunate if it is there, because there are massive primary/secondary refinaries in Louisiana and Texas (duh... ). For now, there's Hibernia in the Grand Banks off Newfoundland that is sitting on HUGE deposits and the Tar sands in Alberta for Canada... For the US, you're basically depending on the Texan, Alaskan and Colorado/Planes deposits... If a company could get decent Great Lakes or ocean bay frontage or port space and pipeline licenses, and put up 5-10 large refinaries, then the main bottle neck would be addressed, and then we could start really making the most of the Gulf of Arabia's black gold (maybe start getting Iraq a real hand up?).

The Ethanol idea is actually a great one.. Corn grows EXTREMELY well in aeroponic facilities, and an acre crop can usually yeild about 4000 gallons of usable fuel. It burns relatively cleanly, and delivers comperable power (I might have said before that it hadn't, but I've since read that it in fact does) to gasoline. The problem again, is the cost to refine because there hasn't been a real breakthrough to simplify the separation and distillation process. Once that happens, you'll start really seeing the cost of gasoline go down because the ethanol and gasoline can be blended (and bound IIRC.. not sure) to make an excellent all-season gasoline.

Until such time, I think that it'd be prudent to start saving money on transportation by not driving so damned much or alone in SUV's. Really, I'm not going to get pissy about it, but conserving is a better way to reduce costs than finding more abundant sources of the same old energy sources or inventing new ways to power the same old vehicle. Personally, I think the roads would be a LOT safer if everyone just rode a motorcycle.. less gas, and easier to maneuver, and you HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD, not have an idiot box glued to your ear and swerve into and out of traffic. (huff huff)... okay </rant>




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Well I did'nt have time to read all the posts... But all I can say is that I honestly don't belive that there is any type of fuel shortage anywhere in the world. The US government and OPEC along with the big Oil Companies are the reason for your high fuel prices and thats all there is to it,, If you read the news or any thing you would kinda see the things I'm talking about .. I mean Its not like Bush doesn't have Ties to the Oil industry and I think that we are setting on 46 to 55 billion barrels in reserves alone.. at any given time not to mention the billions being shipped in everyday from the mid east which noone should really be Bitching about anyway cause its not like The Suadis aren't reeping the benifits from it. And as far as the WE JUST went to War in Iraq for their oil, who knows what the real reason was It probably could have been but I don't think any one will ever prove it at least not when it will ever count anyway.. and besides they have to pay for all the @!#$ they destroyed over there somehow... And no i really don't see the need to go digging up an national park to get oil especially when it will take almost a decade to get anything from it..
but you can take as you want i guess thats just my opinion..

46-50 billion barrels of oil reserve? Do you know what the US consumes in a day? If OPEC, Canada, Russia and Venezuela shut off the taps, the US would run out of oil in less than a year. OPEC sets their own prices per barrell of crude, they're just a conglomerate... Each country is free to set their own price per barrell, but the average is over $50USD per barrel.

The problem as I said earlier isn't so much the crude reserves, or the prospecting for more crude, it's the fact that there is physically no way to increase production without adding more refinaries. As it stands, Iraq is getting (thanks to Halliburton) their refinaries rebuilt and overhauled to increase their production and environmental friendliness. It's not going to be anytime soon, but within a few years (1-3, estimated), production will start in earnest, and the Iraqi oil market will be back up and running... hopefully not under OPEC... but not a bad thing either way.




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Quote:

hopefully not under OPEC

Well I hope not either but you know how well wishfull thinking goes..

The USGS actually said that if the US were soley dependant on Alaskan oil it would only last 7 months. My old man does alternative energy research at the University of Florida. He thinks its stupid and is by no means a "liberal" or "tree hugger".

Well, the texan oil fields are not yet dry, and there are other deposits in the rockies... as well as in the Gulf of Mexico.

I think in addition to flowing more cash to research alternative power, there oughtta be a big push to CONSERVE ENERGY!!!



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I'm afraid I will have to disagree.. I think oil production peaked about 10 years ago and they're slowly telling us.. Trying to avoid panic. The Saudis have been cross drilling for some time, and that's bad news.. When oil is easy to get at, you don't drill sideways, so that means it's getting difficult. There hasn't been a major discovery since the 70s, and China's demand is going upward daily. We are on our way to $80 per barrel oil in the next 5 years.. If I'm right about production then in the next 50 years we will have to have an alternate or we will begin to see a population crisis. The scariest thing about the whole scenario is that fertilizer production relies on crude oil. Something 30% of the world's oil goes to the production of fertilizers and other agricultural products meaning, without oil, we will see food shortages. We need billions dumped into renewable fuel sources NOW. We don't have time to kill, we have SUVs to crush. Even if I'm wrong about production (do a search for Peek Oil production and read the reports yourself), it will come sooner or later, it's inevitable. If we are not ready, we die.

I thought Bio-diesel was out performing conventional diesel in both power and emissions.?

PAX

HAhahaha: Not entirely sure about biodiesel... It's possible though.

Peak Oil is a theory, but from what I've read, we're still at least 100 years away from it (I may be wrong, Last I read about it was 2-3 years ago.)

Cross-drilling happens when the deposits are not under pressure, so it's not that big of a surprise that the Saudis are starting to do that. Also, Saudi Arabia (at the outset of the first Gulf War in 1991) was cross-drilling into Iraqi oil deposits allegedly, hence Desert Shield... back on topic, Hibernia, Iraq and Gulf of Mexico deposits are still largely untapped... The hold up is more in the refining area... there is still a lot of oil in the ground, but it's going to take a while to extract it.




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Peak oil is a reality, not a theory. It's simple, when production hits it's peak, every drop after that will be more difficult to extract and therefore more costly. The only theory about it is when. It seems to me that if we haven't already peaked then prices are rising rapidly for no reason and delicate and difficult terrains are being exploited for no reason. I think there is a reason, we've already peaked.

We will never run out of oil because we won't be able to get it all out of the ground. Why drill in fragile ecosystems or raging north seas if oil is still available through conventional wells? Why did Kuwait take the enormous risk of drill under Iraq? Why are the Saudi's constraining production and cross drilling and pumping sea water in, unless they have to?

PAX

Reason:

Kuwait/SA: has oil fields that cross Iraqi borders. notice I said "allegedly" in the original statements. It's pretty inconsiderate of those deposits to not follow political boundaries eh?

Again, Seawater inclusion doesn't really mean anything other than the Natural Gas and lighter crudes that were under pressure are no longer under pressure. it means that some deposits are starting to come under equillibreum (even under atmospheric pressure).

However, the reasons behind developing more fossil fuel extraction techniques isn't just due to that... Canada doesn't HAVE to start developing oil-sands extraction techniques because otherwise we won't have any oil, we're set if production ceased tomorrow for the next 15 years barring exports and including a rise in demand. Oil-sands areas are, for the most part, uninhabitable... they don't support forests or much in the way of vegitation... so few animals.

With Anwr, the idea is that there should be self-sufficiency, and that ideal is patently wrong. The US is the largest oil consumer in the world and that isn't changing soon, Switching to reliance solely on Anwr is a BAD idea because it's not the only deposit in the US or its territories, and, without more refining capacity, it's not going to do a lick of good anyhow, because it's just going to be more crude. SA is curtailling production to squeeze prices.. funny that, they want more money.

Other deposits are being explored mainly in anticipation of greater Demand. With China coming on-line as a major consumer, people are falling over themselves because thats a Billon new consumers. Basically its three More consumers with the demand of the USA. It's not as if conventional deposits are not being prospected, its just that there are many more avenues to get as much or even more fuels (Hibernia's deposits are estimated at being at least as large as Iraq's, it's just a lot harder to drop a pump on them).

Peak oil is just a theory, and as yet, it's unproven because we are not at capacity because of the rolling back of production to not meet demand, and deplete reserves.


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