60 min tonight - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: 60 min tonight
Saturday, June 11, 2005 7:29 AM on j-body.org
By that rationale, where do you draw the line?

Hell, I want a looped nuclear acclerator, and light/gravity containment system just in case a partial torso vaporous appartition happens to meander by... the likelihood of that happening is about as remote as a snowball's chance in hell, but I'd feel better all the same if I had it, just in case.

On top of that, I think I'll put my order in for 15 Stinger Missiles and launchers and what the hell, 15 TOW missiles... as well 3000 gallons of Napalm, 3 flamethrower sets M1 Abrams tanks and munitions... same reason as the first item. I want to feel cool.

Do I have any legitimate use for any of these? no, not really, but your rationale... I, and every other nut out there (some with a walkie talkie on direct line to GOD) should be allowed to have it because we WANT it.

Wanting is fine, hey Bin Laden WANTS bio weapons and nukes, would yo deny him those items if his idealogy was the same and he was a US citizen?

The line has to be drawn somewhere.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.



Re: 60 min tonight
Saturday, June 11, 2005 10:10 AM on j-body.org
GG blowing that out of proportion........You know exactly what i meant....

Seems like you just went around your @ss to get to your elbow on saying that we should have a precidence...which we do...

50 cal rifles are here to stay, like it or not...
the 9mm handgun has killed 10000000x more than a 50 cal rifle..go ban that..



Re: 60 min tonight
Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:31 PM on j-body.org
I exaggerated. That's the point. The .50 cal rifles are an exaggeration that the average person has no use for... Just like the Particle accelerator, the Missiles, etc.

The point about terrorists still stands. Al-queda manuals state pretty clearly that if there are legal channels for purchasing weaponry, go through them!

And what's this? You're arguing that you should be able to keep a military grade weapon, but remove sidearms?



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Re: 60 min tonight
Monday, June 13, 2005 10:23 AM on j-body.org
no, i'm just saying that if you want to pick a fight against a gun, choosing one that has killed thousands might be a better bet than a 50 cal sniper rifle....



Re: 60 min tonight
Monday, June 13, 2005 6:59 PM on j-body.org
Why not get rid of them both and wrap the problem up in a bow?



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Re: 60 min tonight
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:25 AM on j-body.org
why not get rid of the freedom of speech?...i mean, while you're on the topic of opressing the masses and taking their rights away....



Re: 60 min tonight
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:23 AM on j-body.org
Hey, you guys voted in the president that will do all that in the name of fighting Terrorism, however, uphold the TERRORIST'S right to buy, own and use weapons against you.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: 60 min tonight
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:52 AM on j-body.org
explain to me what the innocent have to fear?



Re: 60 min tonight
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:18 AM on j-body.org
Those that aren't.

But is anyone really innocent--has anyone been innocent?


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: 60 min tonight
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:38 AM on j-body.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=15213

I have 2 words: Slippery Slope.
well, 2 more: Police State.

On topic: PATRIOT act has been used not once to prosecute or further a terrorist investigation. FISA/FISC had the sneak & peek provisions, but now, every law enforcement group has that ability. As such, you may not assert your 4th ammendment rights. You may be perfectly innocent of any criminal activities, but after police toss your place, and possibly break somethings, they serve you a warrant (over a day later) saying they had the right to enter.. and you cannot sue the police dept. for restitution of property destroyed or broken in the process of an on-going criminal investigation. hey, I work with police, but I don't think for a minute that loosening the reigns is going to net any more terrorists... and as it stands, the second PATRIOT is rescinded and the legislation it alters (hacks up) is either re-phrased or re-written completely, there is a built-in appeal for every person that had their rights violated, and more than likely, a built in get out of jail card.

Anyhow...

As it stands now, who cares right? No-one has any privacy if they choose to give it away right? Internet transmissions go over publicly held lines at somepoint, so they MUST be able to read whatever you're doing?

You use your wife's credit card # to buy something over the phone, even with her knowledge and permission... oops, that's credit card fraud, it's illegal!!! Off to jail you go because wide field wiretaps are legal, and you were listened to.

Knowing the Neo-Chrisitan Bent the government is on, what happens when Adultery becomes a crime? Other than half of congress is screwed (pardon the pun), but you can be monitored by police for suspicion of adultery. As it stands now, you buy enough ammonium nitrate to fertillize a hobby farm, you're pretty much painted for drug cultivation or Terrorism suspicion.

You can still have your privacy violated... Innocent or no. Patriot Act has diminished all of your constitutionally guarenteed rights and freedoms except Gun ownership, and rescinded and absolved liability for those agencies committing the actions, so you may not recieve recompense for their transgressions when it is infact, found you have done nothing in regards to any crime.

This same kind of law was enacted on groups in Nazi-Germany, the difference is that now instead of being focused on a group, your duly elected legislators are putting the dildo of power between everyone's butt-cheeks. The government has no business intruding either overtly or covertly in regular non-criminal's affairs, but PATRIOT allows them to do just that, and the point that I'm trying to make is that if you give someone power, they'll use it, and then abuse it... Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So, to borrow from the well used adage of NRA mantras: The only people that will have rights and protections, are those that have no use for them.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: 60 min tonight
Thursday, June 16, 2005 11:25 AM on j-body.org
what happens when Adultery becomes a crime?.....

In the Millitary, it is a crime...




Re: 60 min tonight
Thursday, June 16, 2005 11:39 AM on j-body.org
"Hey, you guys voted in the president that will do all that in the name of fighting Terrorism, however, uphold the TERRORIST'S right to buy, own and use weapons against you. "

simplistic arguement with no merit!!!

whether i CAN LEGALLY own a machine gun has ZERO Bearing on a terroist owning one!

the simply fact that a criminal CAN AND WILL GET fully automatic weapons, whether legal or illegal...is the exact reason I SHOULD be legally allowed to.
Re: 60 min tonight
Saturday, June 18, 2005 9:03 AM on j-body.org
ECB: I'm not in the military.

Pretjah: No merit? Al queda manuals stress the point that some countries specifically the USA allow the purchase of automatic weapons, so why risk getting caught?

Either there's a war on terrorism, and you fight it in your own country, or it's a sham, and you're allowing the people that want to do you harm to go unchecked.

And a Criminal will get whatever they want, they don't live by the same rules as you do.

Stop being so damned afraid.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: 60 min tonight
Saturday, June 18, 2005 9:50 PM on j-body.org
i don't know about you, but if i wanted to wage a war, i wouldn't want to wage it on my own soil...



Re: 60 min tonight
Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:21 AM on j-body.org
There's no war happening on US soil, and that's the problem. There's at least as much threat from domestic terrorists (Have we forgotten Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nicholls?) with a separatist agenda as there is from Al-queda.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: 60 min tonight
Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:43 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

There's no war happening on US soil, and that's the problem.

no, there's no war happening on US soil ,and that's a good thing.....
Re: 60 min tonight
Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:51 PM on j-body.org
You missed the jist: if there was in fact, a war going on US soil, I could see restrictive and intrusive measures being taken as a temporary measure... Happened in WWII, but it wasn't LAW, you did it to protect the boys off fighting.

Now there are laws that are made to invade privacy... and you're allowing it to happen. Why is this? Is there any less need or want of privacy?

You get your guns, but not the right to have a phone conversation wihout being monitored, or the right to have a locked house without the authorities barging in with no notice?

I could possibly see these measures if there was a hot war in the US, but right now, sorry... No one is organising a confederacy... Can't see why these war-time measures are being enacted.



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Re: 60 min tonight
Monday, June 20, 2005 7:05 PM on j-body.org
Yeah, I think the 50 cal is a beautiful weapon. It's all blued-black and everything, and it is loud, loud=fun right? On the topic of the rifle, do any of you know anyone that owns any of these? I'd ask about the desert Eagle .50 but everyone seems to know someone who owns or has fired one. Yes it is huge, and yes it seems unneccessary, but what "toy" of america isn't? (Minda you, very patriotic american here!)

As for the episode I did watch it, found it really interesting, but why is it big now? They did not just release these rifles! What I am trying to get at is everyone is freaking out thinking that this is the "weapon of weapons," but it is not, yeah long range is what it is made for, and it could be dangerous in the wrong hands, but hands could be dangerous in the wrong hands...er...yes.

In summary, legalizing abortion would mean that all of the drug dealers would have to get pardoned, and join the Peace Corps, so the somalians can be sent food every year from the foul-mouthed cheuvanistic people wearing trenchcoats.


Do I really need a signature?
Re: 60 min tonight
Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:34 AM on j-body.org
gam, your values are jacked up... you bitch about people not having freedom x, but you want to see freedom y get taken away...which side of your mouth are you talking about of ?



Re: 60 min tonight
Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:05 AM on j-body.org
I'm saying Freedoms are tennent to anarchy if they are used irresponsibly.

Your freedoms are getting curtailled left and right, all EXCEPT the right to gun ownership. My values are not jacked up at all, I believe firmly that if you want to have a gun, and you're responsible enough to own one, you should (given, I put a VERY high premium on responsibility, a 4 hr gun safety course isn't enough, quite frankly, and neither is writing a test and driving for 15 mins) given that it's useful for hunting or defense (a .50cal rifle has no practical application in hunting in the USA, maybe, MAYBE in Africa, but not in North America). I also think that if you want to say something that is not popular, and may even be abrasive, You should be allowed to as long as you're not inciting violence against others. I also believe you have a right to whatever you please in your own home as long as you're not hurting others and as such, your government should have no right to search or seize your property without due process and upfront notification.

Apparently, if MY values are jacked up, I shudder to wonder what you'd call current political values.




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Re: 60 min tonight
Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:47 AM on j-body.org
Have you ever heard the saying.."if you don't give the devil anything to talk about, he won't have anything to say?".. No matter what, we're going to have a completely different presidency and agenda come next election.. I can wait until then. The US is still, by far, the best place to live(canada too, but i like the weather down here a bit better)..
and taking what freedoms?..the freedom to be able to harbor terrorism? or monitoring to search for terrorism?...hey man, i'm no terrorist, nor do i harbor any...so that freedom, i don't want to begin with..




Re: 60 min tonight
Wednesday, June 22, 2005 1:44 PM on j-body.org
Well, the problem is that there are no terrorist cells in the US currently. And there one that was in the US was 21 people.

You have the right to your privacy, and to not have officials from the government pry into your business without just cause, and effectively, the standards behind just cause have been lowered, and they don't have to tell you what they're doing. Does everyone that want to be left alone and away from prying eyes (of the government that as stated before has no business with your life other than when you break the law) harbor terrorists? No, of course not... Some people just want to do their own thing, otherwise, we may as well be living in houses made of glass, and wear monitoring ankle-bracelets all the time... At what point do we draw the line?

It just smacks of 1984 if you ask me. How much of your freedom are you willing to give up in order to be told you're safe?

Like I said, Food poisoning killed more people in the US in 2000/01 than did terrorism. Medical f*@#-ups killed at least 4 times the number of people in the US than did terrorism... I just wonder why all this bureaucracy and money hasn't been put to better use than making it easier for "the Man" to screw with you.

Interesting thing: PATRIOT act is being used in furtherance of only one instance of actual Terrorism. The rest of the laws ammended are just making it easier for police to do their jobs and cover up sloppy work (I work with police, and I'm arguing for reduced police powers... imagine that).

I dig what you're saying, but I don't take the trading of freedoms for security as an even trade... you end up losing no matter what. I know that the Constitution is not written in stone, but it's also meant to give guidance... which is mostly being ignored right now. The idea is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... there's nothing in there about security...




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: 60 min tonight
Wednesday, June 22, 2005 5:19 PM on j-body.org
i'd rather have freedome than security.

If i'm unamerican for that, then (pardon my bad russian), Dasvedanja, comrade!


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: 60 min tonight
Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:16 AM on j-body.org
Well, the problem is that there are no terrorist cells in the US currently. And there one that was in the US was 21 people.

I'd love to hear your bs source on this one... because you're dead wrong...

I'm not going to get into it though because you lack the "need to know."


oh, and in this world, freedom is a myth..from the time we are born, we are instilled with beliefs which constrain us..



Re: 60 min tonight
Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:44 AM on j-body.org
Have you gotten the gist of my concept based upon my post?

oF COURSE we're constrained by the b.s. we believe in since day one--it's time to wash ourselves clean or we go the way of the dinos.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
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