DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:38 AM on j-body.org
First off, I put "wanton" in there, because inflicting of pain happens on a daily basis, and some people do it to themselves for one reason or another. Sometimes it's done to defend, in which case it usually ceases once the other is dead, or there is avenue to escape.

Dictionary meanings are usually literal. There isnt inflection, and there is only robotic meaning, and rarely is there vernacular pertaining to modern or common usage.

You can shoot a dog because it's dying for whatever reason, and while it's temporarily painful, it's not cruel because you are ending it's suffering.

You can also not shoot the same dog because you're a sadist, and it is cruel because you are doing it for purely selfish reasons.

Whats the difference? One you're releasing it from pain, and the other you're just letting it suffer.


The difference is motivation, if you're motivated by suffering and you enjoy inflicting it, you're cruel. If you do it only because you want to prevent further suffering, you're not cruel.

That's my take on it, I didn't go by the dictionary meaning strictly because, sometimes, dictionaries are woefully lacking in description.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.



Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:13 AM on j-body.org
i agree %100 gam.

and id say you DID follow the dictionary meaning to a T. because all literature and laws throughout time have used the word cruel in the same way you just have.





:::Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Sunday, June 05, 2005 4:05 PM on j-body.org
Nathaniel wrote:i agree %100 gam.

and id say you DID follow the dictionary meaning to a T. because all literature and laws throughout time have used the word cruel in the same way you just have.


nathaniel, take some time to read the encyclopedia on something if you are trying to see where i come from on this....

Quote:

Self-defense
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
(Redirected from Self defense)
Self-defense usually refers to the use of violence to protect oneself and is a possible justification for this otherwise illegal act.

Its legal status varies from area to area. Courts generally find that the degree of violence used in self-defense must be comparable to the threat faced, so that deadly force should only be used in situations of "extreme" danger. Many have ruled that self-defense is only acceptable as a legal defense when the user doesn't have sufficient chance to flee. However, the castle exception (see: Edward Coke) argues that one cannot be expected to retreat from one's own home.



NOW BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING......PLEASE DO visit the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_defense

NOTICE that the word "VIOLENCE" is in BLUE and LINKED

in that link, here is what violence is said to be.

Quote:

Violence
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Violence is a general term to describe actions, usually deliberate, that cause or intend to cause injury to people, animals, or non-living objects. Violence is often associated with aggression. There are essentially two kinds of violence: random violence, which describes small-scale acts of random or targeted violence, and coordinated violence, which describes actions carried out by sanctioned or unsanctioned violent groups, such as war and terrorism.

Certain forms and degrees of violence are socially and/or legally sanctioned, while others constitute crimes within a specific society. Different societies apply different standards relating to sanctioned and non-sanctioned forms of violence. Degrees of violence that are not accepted by a society's norms are commonly regarded as cruel, and may be termed extra-normal violence. Violence used in terrorism is often extra-normal in terms of degree.



its all pretty much based on what society accepts. which is what GAM said above.


cruelty is a degree of violence. and also the meaning of violence HERE carries the same EXACT definition as cruel (as posted numerous times on previous pages)....


just because you may not accept it, doesnt mean others will see something you do not accept in the same manner.


you do not live in exactly the same society that i life in, for starters your views on eating meat. we live in a general society of america, but all over america ways of life ARE different. world wide even. one example of this is i can go down into baltimore and use the term "my ni**a, however if you used it theres a chance others might not accept you and then proceed to intentionally harm you.... fact and truth.



but before writing back, visit BOTH links and read.

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_defense

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence

*** if you click on the first one, you can get to VIOLENCE and its meaning from the first link****

and from your other posts, it should go without explanation for most to understand that not ALL self defense, is violent or cruel. if anyone should have to explain that, i would hope that it would be to those of a low comprehension level.


this is my take on it and where i stand on it.



like said before nathaniel, if you are trying to see where i am comming from, read around. i found this pretty easily.

its the same way as you see eating animals cruelty to animals, cause you say its not needed, however i as many others see eating of animals as a source of food that we are able to sustain ourselves by which over time humans have adapted to do so gentically as well.



i gave you the info.... you can choose to read it or ignore it.



Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Sunday, June 05, 2005 5:41 PM on j-body.org
Event: you gotta know that there are humane ways of slaughtering animals.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Sunday, June 05, 2005 6:37 PM on j-body.org
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Event: you gotta know that there are humane ways of slaughtering animals.


oh no doubt. and hopefully i get that way, but i will never really know. theres kosher ways as well. i def dont disagree there. however some will say that humans eating meat is not necessary, so technically to them and in their eyes its cruelty to animals, since we can survive on veggies, and not meat.


court of law hasnt outlawed it as cruelty, hence its still legal to do so, but some still say it is.


its pretty much on the same level as a parent spankin rear end of their kids...

some courts have deemed it to be abuse, but other courts have deemed it discipline. court definitions will vary. part of the reason why things can be overturned. one court can rule something one way and another in a different ruling.



Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Sunday, June 05, 2005 8:55 PM on j-body.org
Oh man, and I thought arguing about proper form was going nowhere.

I can't see, Event, although I do respect your opinions, that you can't tell the difference between self-defense and cruelty. Or why you might choose to ignore it.

Like GAM said, dictionary definitions are usually devoid of context. Apply the term to the real world and you can get a whole range of meanings.

I think it's pretty obvious that cruelty is inflicted with the purpose of being sadistic.

Self-defence isn't considered cruelty, until you overstep it's bounds. You didn't start anything, and you had no intention to harm this person in the first place.

Your intention to harm, after he engages, is not a by-product of malice on your part, but rather a (human) need for survival. The harm that occurs during self-defence doesn't constitute cruelty because the only reason you counter-attacked was to prevent bodily harm to your person.

If somebody comes at me with a knife, and I pop him in the nose with my palm and he drops to the ground--the self-defence portion of the engagement is over. Anything I do after that is (however deserving) cruelty. My best bet, however, would be to restrain him somehow so that I don't have to defend myself again.

Even engaging in extreme forms of self-defence shouldn't be considered cruel. If someone advances on a cop with a knife, the cop tells him to drop it but the idiot instead lunges, anything the cop does to subdue the guy is warranted. It's after Knifey McGee is no longer a threat that any action against him is cruel. If he's still a threat, a swift kick to the nuts or a bullet to the head isn't cruel and unusual. It could, perhaps be considered unnecessary, but not cruel.

However, it's like a doctor in the ER who makes the wrong decision towards a patient in the heat of the moment. If they screw-up trying to do the right thing to the best of their ability, is it really their fault if their patient dies? They may feel like it, but it happens. I wouldn't call the doctors cruel for making a bad call.

If there's a nut in a crowded building with a machine gun, and a sniper has a clear shot to take the guy out, does he shoot him in the knee or the head? If he hits him in the knee, the guy may still take out someone anyway. So he hits him in the head, because he had a split second to react, and his reaction (although meant to kill) cannot be considered cruel because his intent was to prevent harm, not cause it. As a result of his intentions, somebody dies, but the sniper didn't start the engagement wanting to kill the guy.

But chances are good, the sniper tries to take out the suspect in any way he can that doesn't involve killing him. Sometimes, however, the @!#$ hits the fan and snap decisions have to be made.

Regardless, violence isn't inherently cruel, it's inherently violent. That's about it. It depends on the context in which that violence is applied.

Using dictionary entries to prove points makes this a rather tedious, mind-numbing game. Both Nathaniel and Event: Stop it. Both the beauty and the downfall of any language is that you can shape it to mean pretty much anything you want.




Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 7:12 AM on j-body.org
Damn, the lengths people will go to to prove they are right, wether they are right or not,
just to save face I assume.

Cruelty is in reading a pointless argument.

Defense is about preventing cruelty being applied to ones self. Going beyond that prevention could be cruelty, but thats a different discussion.





Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 9:05 AM on j-body.org
let me give another analogy:

Defence is killing someone that breaks into your house armed with a deadly weapon.

Cruelty is disarming someone that breaks into your house with a deadly wapon, chaning them up, and taking a giant @!#$ on their chest while dressed as Woody Woodpecker.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
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Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 9:10 AM on j-body.org
^ so are you sayign you have a woody woodpecker costume? because if so please contact me immediately, I must borrow it


good analagy.






:::Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 11:49 AM on j-body.org
No i don't. I think Event does--though...

...or is that his Dynomutt costume??? I forget.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 3:25 PM on j-body.org
Defence is beating 9 people to death with a steel dildo.


Cruelty is doing the same while wearing a bigs bunny costume.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.



Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 3:40 PM on j-body.org
GAM is it a heated or icy cold dildo, not sure but i think that may make a difference. and for god's sake use protection, wrap that bad boy, you never know where those 9 people have been.





Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 3:56 PM on j-body.org
No, GAM, you'ere mistaking "Defense" and "Cruelty" for "Maniac" and "Crazy person", respectively.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 4:21 PM on j-body.org
Well, I'd call Nathanial a Maniac, and EVENT a Crazy Person.


Also, after the 3rd-4th blow from the steel dildo, does it really matter if it's wrapped or naked? You're going to be dead anyhow.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 4:38 PM on j-body.org
Re: DIFFERENCE between cruelty and defense
Monday, June 06, 2005 6:53 PM on j-body.org
I suppose using the neurotically cleansing ideaology that is prevalent these days: You would need to first auto-clave sterilise the implement, then alcohol and iodine baths to ensure that there are absolutely no germs, because you wouldn't want to go to hell with an infection!

What happened to the good old days when an axe murderer or garden-variety whackaloo-nutjob would walk around with a bloody axe, blood spatters on his trap-door loaders and overalls, and then go to the local sherriff with tears on his cheeks (washing little trails) and he offers himself up with a whimper and "I've been a baaaad boooy"?

I think we need a few of them around. They can't help that they're screwed up.

Kinda like we need a few people that are so sleep deprived they have a psychotic break, and develop an entirely new personality that creates a club where guy just beat the @!#$ out of each other for no other reason than it's fun... then turns that little bloodsport club into a massive operation for the manufacture of soap, and uses a fictitious chemical recipe to make explosives, all the while selling rich women their own fat asses back to them... All the while using the byproducts to develop a project that is hellbent on taking out Credit/banking institutions in order to restore economic equillibreum.

I think it's high time our schools start churning out these guys instead of Mindlessly "motivated" young urban monstrosities.

I also think that its high time we start teaching kids to not shoot to kill each other. Instead, why not instruct them to first, ensure that they will never EVER reproduce, and then, inflict maximum survivable damage on each other so they will never have to do anything worth doing. I further submit that all politicians be given retroactive abortions. All of them, with one stipulation, they have to undergo a public quarterly review of their performance. After 3 unsatisfactory reviews, we terminate their asses with extreme prejudice, even more if they're not White. I Think it's about time that we start demanding far less of the elected representatives... Don't pay them at all, just siphon off a pint of blood out of their well nourished, overpaid, over-priveledged and over-indulged arses, and fill the blue blood-type shortage the Red Cross is currently experiencing.

More people need to just arbitrarily start beating on their neighbours, they need to start doing unto each other what their elected officials have been doing to their wallets for 40 years.

I am in favour of publicly shooting, and possibly using a machete on campainging officials, I do not, however advocate killing them immediately. If they want to start telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body, I suggest we the people start telling them what we are going to do to their bodies, and they have no say in the matter.

Is that cruel? Certainly not.

It's self defense.

All of it.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


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