^^^Government does not need to involve itself in corporate affairs, they are going to go with the route with the most profit regardless, of government restrictions or aid. Education as far as I see it has reached its free limit, of course new books, better programs etc. would be a plus, it is not gonna make them any smarter. I believe that if a kid wants to learn, he/she will learn. Vietnam was NOT a mistake it was just a failure.

I dont agree with burning a flag but, because they have the right to do so then I will not be bothered by it. IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO EVERY AMERICAN WHO FOUGHT AND DIED TO PUT THAT FLAG WHERE IT IS TODAY. I can see that you are not likely to be in the military and therefore cannot comprehend this. But let me ask you this:

Was the flag flown in battle when we fought for our independence? YES
Did people die to make sure that the flag would be raised proudly over a free country? YES
Did they give THEM the right to disrespect them by burning the very flag they fought so dearly for? YES

I dont care if burning the flag is disrespectful to me or not. I didnt die for it but, I know enough that our soldiers in Iraq are protecting these same freedoms and it is disrespectful to EVERY person in the armed forces.






____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

Chamillionaire wrote:A free United States is a hoax. We are not free here, it's just less restrictive government compared to other countries. Burning the American flag is a sign of disrespect to whom? It doesn't bother me one bit. People overseas that do it usually have a reason for doing it that our government was responsible for.
I don't think that putting laws in place to prevent flag burning will do any more good than the patriot act has. Laws are made to protect the people. How is preventing flag burning protecting the people? Just keeps other extremist from getting pissed, that's all I see.
As far as Iraq goes...take care of Americans first. These billions of dolars we are spending over there could've been used to fund the education of our youth. It should've been used to help create jobs for Americans and to help keep American companies from having to go overseas from the lack of govermental support over here. It's not always cheap labnor they are looking for you know.
Iraq was a sham and a mistake. Anyone can see that who is not blind or deaf. You cannot fight a war against an insurgency...didn't they learn that from Vietnam?

Well for your info, War has always benefitted the USA, As a Matter fact if you read your history, It brough us out of depression, When the Government Builds for War every American in the Job Market Benefit. Before you start spouting what you have no idea of, POut money in your pocket then tax em , thats the way of the USA. Without work the Machine donet work, So where you getting off saying put it back into this and that, It is inderectly But the fact it is says alot for war. Its just People like to wave that flag of Vietnam as a reminder, Tah ha, you were nt even old enogh to remember it and yet you all wave like some banner, But never about Desert Storm.


JBP Built 2.4
250HP
230FT
Dont race
But dont push it

I know damn well that Burning the Flag is disrespectful to every single Marine that I work with, we've all been over to Iraq, most twice and put our lives on the line.

Yes to me it is a personal insult when someone burns the flag, but unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it. I put my life on the line and that is the respect that I get, but I also have to remember that because I fight for those Freedoms, I can not impinge on them just because I find the act disrespectful and offensive.




Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home

Saint wrote:I know damn well that Burning the Flag is disrespectful to every single Marine that I work with, we've all been over to Iraq, most twice and put our lives on the line.

Yes to me it is a personal insult when someone burns the flag, but unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it. I put my life on the line and that is the respect that I get, but I also have to remember that because I fight for those Freedoms, I can not impinge on them just because I find the act disrespectful and offensive.

THANK YOU!!!

same way i feel.


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

Saint:
I respect what you do, no question.

And, you hit the nail on the head... you work to guarentee the freedoms of your nation, and the people exercise them as they see fit. As I said before, Free speech is a double-edged sword because popular/respectful/non-controversial speech isn't all thats protected.

At least that is a freedom you and others can enjoy.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Quote:

Government does not need to involve itself in corporate affairs, they are going to go with the route with the most profit regardless, of government restrictions or aid. Education as far as I see it has reached its free limit, of course new books, better programs etc. would be a plus, it is not gonna make them any smarter. I believe that if a kid wants to learn, he/she will learn.

That is one of the most ignoran things I have ever heard. Better material will not benefit the education of American children is basically what I'm getting from you??!?!?! There should never be a limit to education. Technology advancing means that the educational systems in place should be advancing as well. There shouldn't be history books that are still being used in 2005 with George Bush Sr. named as President of the United States.

Quote:

Vietnam was NOT a mistake it was just a failure.

I will never agree with anyone about this view, so moving on...

Quote:

I dont agree with burning a flag but, because they have the right to do so then I will not be bothered by it. IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO EVERY AMERICAN WHO FOUGHT AND DIED TO PUT THAT FLAG WHERE IT IS TODAY. I can see that you are not likely to be in the military and therefore cannot comprehend this.

It's disrespectful to those people how? That flag is a symbol of our country. Kind of like the NBA wears uniforms. It does not represent anything other than the implied meaning that so many people put into it. That has been stated throughout this entire thread. If you want to flip it like that, then it should be said that those same people that fought and died, did just that so we could retain our right to demonstrate in the manor which we choose. Is that not a fact sir?? You'd be surprised at who you're talking to that sits behind this computer. I just narrowly escaped Iraq if that tells you anything. 8 years friend of one form or another of Military duties.

I'm gonna skip the second to last section, jusy read above. Actually the rest of that was covered above so no need for further comment to you. about it.

Quote:

Well for your info, War has always benefitted the USA, As a Matter fact if you read your history, It brough us out of depression, When the Government Builds for War every American in the Job Market Benefit. Before you start spouting what you have no idea of, POut money in your pocket then tax em , thats the way of the USA. Without work the Machine donet work, So where you getting off saying put it back into this and that, It is inderectly But the fact it is says alot for war. Its just People like to wave that flag of Vietnam as a reminder, Tah ha, you were nt even old enogh to remember it and yet you all wave like some banner, But never about Desert Storm.

The largest national deficit in the history of the United States...during this war. Economic problems during the Viewtnam War. Shall I keep going??? I think it's you has their history all wrong. 90% of what you wrote I can't interpret so I'm gonna skip a whole lot of it. I may not have been old enough to remember Vietnam, but I do study history as opposed to spouting off at the mouth....like you just did and were shown to be in error. What was Desert Storm and Desert Shield? There was actually reason for that war from what I remember, but please feel free to enlighten me.

Quote:

I know damn well that Burning the Flag is disrespectful to every single Marine that I work with, we've all been over to Iraq, most twice and put our lives on the line.

I commend you for your efforts overseas and just by simply being a fellow member of the U.S. armed forces. Does it bother me when I see flags burning? Sure it does. It doesn't piss me off though. Why you ask? Because I know the United States stands for more than just a flag. That flag burning means that someone has done something right throughout military and general history of the United States. Most military personnel will take it to heart when they see someone burning a flag, but that is their God given right, that our fellow living and deceased persons have ensured.


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

You have no idea what it is like to go to war and have your life on the line. You have no basis for argument to go overseas and worry about mortars and rockets dropping on your head every day, or to get an intel report 5-minutes before you cross the Line of Departure stating that an American Convoy will be attacked in the area that you are about to drive through, and then finding out that you are the second convoy on the road, and that the Hadjis usually attack the second convoy through. You don't know what it's like to have a mortar land where you work, or to be outside when you hear a mortar come overhead. You don't know what it's like to lose Marines that you worked with for 3 months in combat only to have them killed when the Dozer they are operating falls into the river and a second Marine drowns trying to save them, or to have 2 Marines killed by a roadside bomb that they had passed on the way there only to have it go off before they could even get thier dispersion. You have no idea what it is like to be startled every time thier is a loud bang not knowing if it's incoming rounds, even after you leave Iraq. Point being you haven't been there, and have no basis to even think about comparing the way I feel about it. Hell, I've only been there once and I feel that strongly about it, I can only imagine the Marines that I work with that have been there twice.

Yes, all of that happened to me, and to come home and see people burning what I put my life on the line for every single day, in the most dangerous ways, it's enough to make a person sick. It enrages me to even think about it, but luckily I'm one of the sensible Marines, most of the Marines I work with don't think like me and think I'm a little crazy for the way that I am. But then again maybe that's why I'm staying in and you got the @!#$ out.




Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home

Chamillionaire wrote:

Quote:

I dont agree with burning a flag but, because they have the right to do so then I will not be bothered by it. IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO EVERY AMERICAN WHO FOUGHT AND DIED TO PUT THAT FLAG WHERE IT IS TODAY. I can see that you are not likely to be in the military and therefore cannot comprehend this.

It's disrespectful to those people how? That flag is a symbol of our country. Kind of like the NBA wears uniforms. It does not represent anything other than the implied meaning that so many people put into it. That has been stated throughout this entire thread. If you want to flip it like that, then it should be said that those same people that fought and died, did just that so we could retain our right to demonstrate in the manor which we choose. Is that not a fact sir?? You'd be surprised at who you're talking to that sits behind this computer. I just narrowly escaped Iraq if that tells you anything. 8 years friend of one form or another of Military duties.

I'm gonna skip the second to last section, jusy read above. Actually the rest of that was covered above so no need for further comment to you. about it.

Quote:

Well for your info, War has always benefitted the USA, As a Matter fact if you read your history, It brough us out of depression, When the Government Builds for War every American in the Job Market Benefit. Before you start spouting what you have no idea of, POut money in your pocket then tax em , thats the way of the USA. Without work the Machine donet work, So where you getting off saying put it back into this and that, It is inderectly But the fact it is says alot for war. Its just People like to wave that flag of Vietnam as a reminder, Tah ha, you were nt even old enogh to remember it and yet you all wave like some banner, But never about Desert Storm.

The largest national deficit in the history of the United States...during this war. Economic problems during the Viewtnam War. Shall I keep going??? I think it's you has their history all wrong. 90% of what you wrote I can't interpret so I'm gonna skip a whole lot of it. I may not have been old enough to remember Vietnam, but I do study history as opposed to spouting off at the mouth....like you just did and were shown to be in error. What was Desert Storm and Desert Shield? There was actually reason for that war from what I remember, but please feel free to enlighten me.

You sir need to go BACK to high school and learn something, I said better books WILL benefit our education BUT if a Kid WANTS to learn HE/SHE WILL LEARN.

About the second part.....you know what @!#$ it I can see that you will not even accept our opinions for what they are. Trying to debate with you would be like trying to debate with a stump. Its much easier debating with GAM cause he knows how to. Instead of running his mouth like you.Stay in college this time you might learn something.


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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

Vietnam First and foremost was not only a failure militarily speaking. It was a deflating war that really served no purpose whatsoever. The North Vietnamese were not the only communists in the country, and after France refused to withdraw, they were beaten back. America had presence in the country and it was strengthened only to protect a meagre interest.

It also proved that inept leadership in a time of War is a soldier's biggest foe (Johnson and Nixon should have paid attention in presidenting class).

Now... Vietnam also was a costly war because it consumed a lot of raw materials, lives (that draft thing) etc, and energy to fight a loosing and pointless battle. The only thing that propped up the USA during that period was the Drop in income taxes from Kennedy in 62. Without that, you'd have more than likely seen a tax revolt. The US was paying off the Vietnam war tab well into the 90's (one of the things Regan wasn't credited for is extending the national defecit into nearly impossible payback range to cover build up of the nation's military).

The build up for war does, in many cases provide temporary jobs for people, but you're still not getting that it's temporary. There have been no stable and permanent jobs in Defense contracting since the 80's, and the problem is that most of those jobs have been filled by manufacturing robots, humans have little intervention in that respect. The assertion that a build up for war provides a boost for the economy is dated back to the 40's... It's not by any means long term, at this point, the numbers have been pretty bad jiggered with, if you take out food-service industry from Manufacturing jobs ( ???) you'll see that manufacturing jobs are going down about 3-5% per year since 1999...

This is also not-withstanding the fact that the only real benefits to the recent tax cut, and minor boosts is to the upper 4% tax-bracket of earners. Factor in that this war is being financed with bad debt (ie. the 400 billion dollar defecit) and you have a recipe for financial disaster. Look at that, then at the impending mass-retirement of baby boomers, and you're basically going to see the social safety net of Social Security collapse.

If the financial ineptitude of the current government isn't reason enough to burn the flag (because all that patriotism isn't going to get the bills paid), I'd say Truth-Impaired Governmet Syndrome (TIGS) is a better reason. Your elected officials aren't doing a service to you... they're more interested in courting big businesses, and making it financially expedient for them to make money, notice, you're not included.

Ending corporate welfare, restoring and stregthening your rights as a person, and ending the fallacy of trickle down economics and implementing a sound and sustainable economic growth ideal is far better for your economy long term. This boom and bust cycle isn't steady at all, and frankly, I don't think people want to take 10-15 years to pay out of a bad maneuver by a group of guys that made the decision to go to war to make their business cronies a pile of cash.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

lol I knew I would have to say something again. I just want to say thank you Saint. I dont know if you got it through there heads this time or not, but thank you. I too have spent plenty of time fighting in Iraq along with friends and co workers, military of all branches and countries. It doesn't make sense how people can be against war, for the troops, and never actually listen to the troops. When I came back in Sept. 2003 I was asked probably a hundred times or more if I thought it was worth it and if I would go back again. I changed a lot of oppinions when I said hell yeah! It was definately worth it and I would go back in a heartbeat. We are defending our freedom and the freedom of the Iraqi people. The mass of Iraq is gratefull for what we have done and what we are doing there. It is the militia (who are fading away) that is the reason we are still there. Untill we can finish the militia off (the remaining of Sadam that is) then we will be out of there within a year after that. I was there when Sadam's sons were captured. That night was the only night that I was there that there were no bombs dropped on us, no mortars, no gunfire pointed at us. I was at BIAP (Baghdad international airport) and that night after there prayer I heard nothing but the sounds of automatic weapons and loud cheering. The guns weren't pointed at us, but the sky. These people were celebrating what we did. I saw grown Iraqi men cry in front of me because they were so grateful. They remember how it was before Sadam, when there was public schools for boys and girls, men and women. There were colleges, and they were a wealthy country. Even after I tell you all this, most of you will still never understand, bash me for my oppinion and the truth that I am sharing with you. This is by far the rudest country I have ever been too. I am very proud to be an American, but get sick from the disrespect that a lot of people that live here give. To you people I don't call you Americans. I did not fight in Iraq, my brother did not fight in Desert Storm, my dad didn't fight in Vietnam, and my grandfather didn't fight in WWII for you people. We fought for our families and our friends and for those people who love our country and the freedom that we have. We fought because if we didn't do it, then who the hell will!?!
I hope everyone got something from this, and if you didn't then you already know and understand.

I'm out


<a href="www.russelspc.com">
<img border="0" src="http://russelspc.com/jbody2.jpg">
</a>

Crazy Midget:

You and your folks didn't get the choice of who they fought for. They fought for everyone, and their rights. Picking and choosing isn't part of the deal... You can think what you want, but in reality, you've all fought so that not some could be shut up, but that all can speak and live.

I'm not questioning the job you did. not at all. The anecdote you shared is a common one (not to say it's boring, not at all), and it's told by UN troops and WWII vets all the time, because it's a common thread... the oppressed celebrate their liberators.

I question the reason that you were put there in the first place. The political wrangling that happened before invasion, and what has been done since major operations have desisted, is what I have serious problems with. It's political, it's not pointed at you or any other person in the armed services personally.

Also, from what I've read, there are more al-queda and just as many Fedayeen Hussein as there were a month after invasion. I think that once the Iraqi National Police and their armed forces are trained and vetted things will get a good lot better for everyone.

(and FYI, there is a very good chance that I'll be part of a UN Mission in Jordan to help train the police there... oh joy...)



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I know I dont have a choice, I am stating my personal and my families personal reason for joining the military. lol I would be highly ignorant if I thought I could fight for just a selected group of people.
Not that your oppinion has changed, but as I recall, all of America was open arms to war when it first started. Now that it has drug on and the media only shows the bad things coming from it, everyone has suddenly changed there minds. The media is wretched and tends to brainwash people because they only show selective things. FYI, most of the military hate (and I dont use that word for just anyone) the media, especially the communist news network, or more commonly referred to CNN.


<a href="www.russelspc.com">
<img border="0" src="http://russelspc.com/jbody2.jpg">
</a>

GAM, there is at least one steady Defense Contractor and that is General Dynamics' Electric Boat Division. They have had steady work since the 60s, in the 70s they even opened up a second shipyard that my Father works at and my Grandfather retired from. My Father has been an employee of Electric Boat since it opened up in Rhode Island over 30 years ago. They were the sole contractor for the Ohio Class Ballistic Missile Submarine that just finished construction a few years ago and are now undergoing massive changes to turn some of the older ones into Guided Missile Submarines, they are also the sole contractor for the Seawolf Class, which is still in construction, and have just started construction on the Virginia Class which have just begun construction, and will still be in construction for at least another decade.




Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home

(sigh) OK, I'll ask AGAIN, FOR THE THIRD TIME, How is the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan defending OUR freedoms???

And, don't get me wrong, I support our troops, just not the war. Hell, I've been trying to get into the military for 4 years now. Anyways, just because you went to fight overseas, doesn't mean you get to pick and choose what freedoms we are entitled to. If I want to burn a flag, I'll burn a flag, damnit. And to hell with all of those "freedom fighters" who are essentially trying to take away our freedoms.




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

you know what f*&% it, why should I care if you burn one of the things that I have SWORN to protect. Who cares, you obviously didnt read my post. Oh and how is our fight in Iraq and Afghanistan protecting our freedoms you ask?? Its preventing war on our turf, that's exactly what it is doing. You see if we don't step up to the plate and take care of business then the war is going to be here, your backyard and my backyard. It will be destroying our cities and towns and you know what sucks most about it?? No one will be there to help us rebuild! The United States of America is the leading country. We bail everyone out and support there rebuilds. You won't see Iraq destroying our country then giving us billions of dollars because they destroyed the homes and workplaces of innocent people. So the next time you think we are fighting a war for no good reason, just think about that slick nuts!


<a href="www.russelspc.com">
<img border="0" src="http://russelspc.com/jbody2.jpg">
</a>

Saint wrote:You have no idea what it is like to go to war and have your life on the line. You have no basis for argument to go overseas and worry about mortars and rockets dropping on your head every day, or to get an intel report 5-minutes before you cross the Line of Departure stating that an American Convoy will be attacked in the area that you are about to drive through, and then finding out that you are the second convoy on the road, and that the Hadjis usually attack the second convoy through. You don't know what it's like to have a mortar land where you work, or to be outside when you hear a mortar come overhead. You don't know what it's like to lose Marines that you worked with for 3 months in combat only to have them killed when the Dozer they are operating falls into the river and a second Marine drowns trying to save them, or to have 2 Marines killed by a roadside bomb that they had passed on the way there only to have it go off before they could even get thier dispersion. You have no idea what it is like to be startled every time thier is a loud bang not knowing if it's incoming rounds, even after you leave Iraq. Point being you haven't been there, and have no basis to even think about comparing the way I feel about it. Hell, I've only been there once and I feel that strongly about it, I can only imagine the Marines that I work with that have been there twice.

Yes, all of that happened to me, and to come home and see people burning what I put my life on the line for every single day, in the most dangerous ways, it's enough to make a person sick. It enrages me to even think about it, but luckily I'm one of the sensible Marines, most of the Marines I work with don't think like me and think I'm a little crazy for the way that I am. But then again maybe that's why I'm staying in and you got the @!#$ out.

Again, you have no idea what I have experienced. You have no idea where I've been, or what I've done. I got out the military because I have a problem with the fact that the government has been lying not only about this war, but also about the stay a soldier has over there. I don't do well with working for liars, but some people don't mind.
JBODY2NR:

Quote:

of course new books, better programs etc. would be a plus, it is not gonna make them any smarter.

I bet you wish you could go back and edit your messages huh??

Quote:

You sir need to go BACK to high school and learn something, I said better books WILL benefit our education BUT if a Kid WANTS to learn HE/SHE WILL LEARN.

Quote:

About the second part.....you know what @!#$ it I can see that you will not even accept our opinions for what they are. Trying to debate with you would be like trying to debate with a stump. Its much easier debating with GAM cause he knows how to. Instead of running his mouth like you.Stay in college this time you might learn something.

You are the one that needs to stay in school. You can argue opinion all you want. I apologize for interjecting facts into your opinion based argument.

Thanks GAM.


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

Roofy wrote:(sigh) OK, I'll ask AGAIN, FOR THE THIRD TIME, How is the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan defending OUR freedoms???

And, don't get me wrong, I support our troops, just not the war. Hell, I've been trying to get into the military for 4 years now. Anyways, just because you went to fight overseas, doesn't mean you get to pick and choose what freedoms we are entitled to. If I want to burn a flag, I'll burn a flag, damnit. And to hell with all of those "freedom fighters" who are essentially trying to take away our freedoms.

OK let me spell it out to you AGAIN. It is not always about us and what we want but, if you want to be like that Saddam himself was a threat to every living American in or outside this country. Dont be selfish all the time. And I never said you couldnt burn the flag your just being an ass by doing so.

Chamillionaire wrote:

Saint wrote:You have no idea what it is like to go to war and have your life on the line. You have no basis for argument to go overseas and worry about mortars and rockets dropping on your head every day, or to get an intel report 5-minutes before you cross the Line of Departure stating that an American Convoy will be attacked in the area that you are about to drive through, and then finding out that you are the second convoy on the road, and that the Hadjis usually attack the second convoy through. You don't know what it's like to have a mortar land where you work, or to be outside when you hear a mortar come overhead. You don't know what it's like to lose Marines that you worked with for 3 months in combat only to have them killed when the Dozer they are operating falls into the river and a second Marine drowns trying to save them, or to have 2 Marines killed by a roadside bomb that they had passed on the way there only to have it go off before they could even get thier dispersion. You have no idea what it is like to be startled every time thier is a loud bang not knowing if it's incoming rounds, even after you leave Iraq. Point being you haven't been there, and have no basis to even think about comparing the way I feel about it. Hell, I've only been there once and I feel that strongly about it, I can only imagine the Marines that I work with that have been there twice.

Yes, all of that happened to me, and to come home and see people burning what I put my life on the line for every single day, in the most dangerous ways, it's enough to make a person sick. It enrages me to even think about it, but luckily I'm one of the sensible Marines, most of the Marines I work with don't think like me and think I'm a little crazy for the way that I am. But then again maybe that's why I'm staying in and you got the @!#$ out.

Again, you have no idea what I have experienced. You have no idea where I've been, or what I've done. I got out the military because I have a problem with the fact that the government has been lying not only about this war, but also about the stay a soldier has over there. I don't do well with working for liars, but some people don't mind.
JBODY2NR:

Quote:

of course new books, better programs etc. would be a plus, it is not gonna make them any smarter.

I bet you wish you could go back and edit your messages huh??

Quote:

You sir need to go BACK to high school and learn something, I said better books WILL benefit our education BUT if a Kid WANTS to learn HE/SHE WILL LEARN.

Quote:

About the second part.....you know what @!#$ it I can see that you will not even accept our opinions for what they are. Trying to debate with you would be like trying to debate with a stump. Its much easier debating with GAM cause he knows how to. Instead of running his mouth like you.Stay in college this time you might learn something.

You are the one that needs to stay in school. You can argue opinion all you want. I apologize for interjecting facts into your opinion based argument.

Thanks GAM.

Im not even gonna try and drill it to you. Just know this, there is more to this country and the countries that rely on us than our own benefit.


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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

I think Thomas Jefferson said it best, you know...one of the founding fathers of this country you're talking about.
"The sole purpose of the United States military is the defense of our borders, not for setting up governments of our liking in foreign lands."
You could never drill anything but opinions into the hearts and minds of the naive. I am not naive.

Quote:

you know what f*&% it, why should I care if you burn one of the things that I have SWORN to protect.

Every last one of you that are sitting here in the military on this board PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS STATEMENT!! Now unless the oath you took is different than the one I took this is completely WRONG!

Quote:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Now that you are reminded of the fact that you are to SUPPORT and DEFEND the Constitution of the United States, you can have your opinions, but remember your duty.
I realize that some here have stated that they are aware of this and my statement is not directed at you. It's the ones that make statements like this who should be reminded of what your DUTY is. If your DUTY is to SUPPORT the Constitution, then you should not be so willing to infringe on the rights of Americans.


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

cannon fodder wrote:^^^ that's a replica of a flag. that is to a real flag what a hotwheels is to a ferrari. it's not considered an actual flag. hell, if that were a real flag, the makers should be thrown in jail for putting staples through it.

burning a flag is not (imo) considered "speech". speech is spoken or written WORDS. note the key word there is "words". if someone wants to protest the government and the USA, they have every right to say or print whatever they feel like. burning a flag is just plain ignorant. it should NOT be covered under the freedom of speech laws because as i said earlier it is not speech. there is plenty of other ways to get your point across without burning a flag. that (again, imo) is going way over the top, and should earn the person prison time.

most flags that are burned in protest are technically by definition "replicas" going with your line of thinking. i don't recall anyone burning a garrison flag, probably been done but you would probably need a permit for a fire that big. people can go back and forth all day on this and never get anywhere, but that is the beauty of it all, you can believe, do, and say what you want. if you do not want to ever be offended throw out your tvs, radios, newspapers, magazines, and stay inside at home, no computer either.

chamillionare wrote:It's disrespectful to those people how? That flag is a symbol of our country. Kind of like the NBA wears uniforms. It does not represent anything other than the implied meaning that so many people put into it. That has been stated throughout this entire thread. If you want to flip it like that, then it should be said that those same people that fought and died, did just that so we could retain our right to demonstrate in the manor which we choose. Is that not a fact sir?? You'd be surprised at who you're talking to that sits behind this computer. I just narrowly escaped Iraq if that tells you anything. 8 years friend of one form or another of Military duties.

lost a little respect for you there. you did not narrowly escape iraq you punked out and pulled a bitch move. probably better because you probably should not have been there in the first place. no matter how you got there you signed up and accepted the job, if you did it for 8 years in any form you knew exactly what you were doing every time after the first, i can give you the first enlistment as a mistake in judgement, then you turned and weaseled out after things changed and you might actually have to perform. don't give me that CO @!#$ either, there are plenty of places you could have helped other soldiers without "likely having to take a life" (read worrying aboot your own ass) but you whined enough until you were let out.

if your brother were still alive and he was as good a soldier as you think he would probably BITCH SLAP you for believing he died worthlessly and belittling his service.

at least he was a man, now i hope there is an afterlife so he can deal with you.

The War in Afghanistan was not undertaken solely by Americans, of that fact I can apprise you of... I have several friends in the Princess Pat's dragoons that have shrapnel wounds because they happened to be where an errant 500lb bomb was dropped from a USAF F-16. (I'm not getting into that little quagmire)

The Afghanistan campaign was launched in order to apprehend conspirators of the 9/11/01 bombings, as well to end the reign of a government that supports terrorism. That's defending the interests of the USA, and Jackson really didn't foresee the small-world that we live in to my knowledge. I also don't think he really forsaw the kind of mess that was brewing after Russia pulled out of Afghanistan, and street gangs basically fought for control of the country.

Saint:
That's one contractor, I'll give you. However, those projects have been on the books for 15+ years, and are part of the replacement of the fleet, I was alluding more to the hasty build up for active operations. I should have made that clear.

Temporary economic boosts from wars are good usually for a year or so after major operations begin, however, long-term growth has always come from sustained renewal, and has usually been started by a government employing Keynesian economics principles (ie. Gov't. uses their taxation revenues to begin renewal projects and lowers fed. reserve prime lending rates to begin spurring on buisnesses growth to accomodate the building projects). At this point, the Government has started using it, but hasn't really committed to keeping it going. The income tax return has had minor benefits, but it won't match the boost given in the Kennedy era (IIRC it was a 25% drop).

Defense spending isn't going to be diminished (and it wasn't after Regan either), and it will also help keep the economy on an even keel, but until another world war erupts (God help us all if that happens) there won't be another big push from the Defense contracting area.


For now, I've said what I have to say about this subject, it's starting to spin WAY off course.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

yes off topic;


i believe it is not right
i believe you should be able to more

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I think Thomas Jefferson said it best, you know...one of the founding fathers of this country you're talking about.

things have changed since 1804 man...


Check out my build thread!

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lost a little respect for you there. you did not narrowly escape iraq you punked out and pulled a bitch move.

I never believed I needed your respect to fourish, I really could care less. I did not punk out as you would like to call it. I have obligations that are more important than going to war behind LIES. You apparently are not a reality based individual. Bottom line is that I'm not going to fight for anyone who has lied to me about the cause or justification of taking lives. Yes is does interfere with my conscience, and if even the military thought that people couldn't have a change of heart, they would not have instilled that clause. That shows your idiocy right there. You are ignorant and need educating.

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no matter how you got there you signed up and accepted the job, if you did it for 8 years in any form you knew exactly what you were doing every time after the first, i can give you the first enlistment as a mistake in judgement

Again your ignorance predeeds you. Anyone that joins the Army will perform a total of 8 years active and inactive time. Never have I re-enlisted because right around the time it came up, I was coming off of active. I did accept the job, true enough. But as stated before, if I felt like there was somethign wrong with what I was being assigned to do, then as a man I can choose otherwise. If you believe that you're some robot only to take commands by your superiors, then you are quite frankly stupid for not investigating your rights as a military person.

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then you turned and weaseled out after things changed and you might actually have to perform.

I had more under my belt by the time I hit 21 than you will in a retirement career.

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give me that CO @!#$ either, there are plenty of places you could have helped other soldiers without "likely having to take a life" (read worrying aboot your own ass) but you whined enough until you were let out.

If I am completely against the war, why would I do ANYTHING to support it? I wanted nothgin to do with this war based o lies and greed. I wanted nothing to do with the killing of innocent people for living in a way since before the United States even came about. We are so quick to judge others like Americans are the only ones with morals and values. I wonder why we are the most HATED country in the world. And when you respond, "because we see something wrong and we go fix it, it's our duty as the leading counrtry", look again at what I said about being the only ones with values and morals. How conceited of you.
For you informational purposes only, I got out due to a hardship discharge. I have grandparents that are sickly whom I take care of. I have a niece who is now FATHERLESS behind LIES!! I have better thigns to do than go overseas to fight for the "freedoms" of others that I as an American don't even have over there. You can now admit your ignorance of the entire situation and be a MAN, or you can come back with your elementary argument. I'll glady accept both.

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if your brother were still alive and he was as good a soldier as you think he would probably BITCH SLAP you for believing he died worthlessly and belittling his service.

"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

shortcut90 wrote:

Quote:

I think Thomas Jefferson said it best, you know...one of the founding fathers of this country you're talking about.

things have changed since 1804 man...

But that staement still holds evident as to the MANY mistakes America has made since then. It holds just as much water in 2005 as it did in "1804".


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

Quote:

if your brother were still alive and he was as good a soldier as you think he would probably BITCH SLAP you for believing he died worthlessly and belittling his service.

My brother was more against this war than anyone I have ever known, with exception to me. How dare you bring him up in this conversation anyway, as if you knew him you @!#$! People like you are the ones that do the belittling because you forget what you are really supposed to be doing as a service meber in the United States. You've accepted that flag as what defines you and your Patriotism to this country. It may be the same way you accepted the fallacies that you were told about Iraq. May be the same way you were brainwashed to think that anyone that didn't agree with doing everything command tells them is a coward. YOU are the coward for not researching things and educating yourself. YOU are the coward for not standing on your own 2 feet and believing everythign that Bush tells you! You are to SUPPORT and DEFEND the United States Constitution, and that entails accepting the burning of an American flag in protest. My brother would BITCH SLAP YOU for not knowing what your duties are as a service member and trying to check someone else with such an uneducated argument. You're emotional...bitches are emotional.


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."