No pablem
The image of Mt Ararat was from a mapping sattellite if I remember correctly, but that area was re-imaged when that particular outcropping was found. The original satellite was from the mid 90's and had (*IIRC, I'm working from memory here) a 1-3 gigapixel CCD and narrowfield lens, and the second imaging was from later in 2003, and the items thought to be the Ark were actually pixelization artifacts and later seen as odd outcroppings.
Noah's ark has been "found" several times:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/images/wpe23.gif
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-07.htm
And proven bogus:
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html
Though it is from a Christian website, this link seems promising:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/ararat.asp
More:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp
The actual area of Mt Ararat that Clever One was talking about has been re-scanned and an expedition in 2004 using GPR found it to not have anything of significantly lesser or greater density than the glacial ice, so it seems that one is a strike out too, but it won't be known until the Ice melts back enough to expose what's there.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
About the flood, the history channel did a special on it one day. Come to find out, there is not enough water on earth to flood it completely, where everything would be submerged. I think they said it would take 3-4X the amount of water we currently have to flood it. BTW, they included glaciers, ice caps, etc.
Also, they went on to say that even if the world was completely under water, that the atmosphere would be so humid that it would be unable for animals to breathe.
I think they ended up coming to the conclusion that Noah was talking about a local flood rather than a global flood.
Brett
Which brings me back to my point that fresh water fish could survive the flood, if it happened. Fresh water fish can take some salt, in fact, if they are sick, it benefits them. Salt water fish would have swollen organs and other troubles as the salinity dropped. On top of that, this is a Genisis story, so the salinity of the oceans may have been much lower in the first place.
I don't buy the humidity part. I have seen days of 100% humidity myself, and while it is difficult to breath (for us asthmatics) it is not anywhere near impossible. At 100% humidity any temperature drop will cause rain, that's about the extent of the consequenses. Oh yes, very uncomfortable, but not fatal.
PAX
Even still, how could a man, like Noah, confidently say that the entire earth was flooded?
Assuming that the average human on an exceptionally clear day can see 40 miles in any direction, that means that they could survey 6400 miles max without use of optics (which Noah wouldn't have had). the total erath's surface area is 196,950,000 miles, or 30,773.4375 TIMES the amount a human could survey.
In an unpowered ark, it would take YEARS to survey that much earth, not days. And i'm willing to bet that the crests of the rockies, Andes, Himylayas, Pyrenees, and Alps he didn't see.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I think Noah took God's word for it
On another note, could it be that the Earth was not as uniniform? Were the mountains as high? Nobody really knows when this was supposed to happen so geography may very well have been different.
PAX
Duae Feminae saliunt!
given the approximate time frame--it would all depend. sea levels in the ice age were lower, so yes, they would be higher. Some would most likely be lower (Hood, St Helens, and the younger Cascade volcanoes would be smaller, Rainier, Adams, and Shasta would be larger, and There was actually a Mt. Mazama (now crater lake). The appalacians and rockies were higher due to the fact they haven't eroded and haven't been actively building. The more quicker-building mountain ranges like Alaska's aleutian pennisula and the Andes would have been shorter.
But even so, IF we could trace the time down, all we';d have to do is collect legends and lore from the same time period in other parts of the world. I'm willing to bet that there was a flood, but it was not all-encompassing.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Who says the Earth was even that old? Nobody really knows the timeframe at all.. Just because the oldest bones found are some 300 000 years old, that does not mean that those bones are the oldest that ever existed, only that they are the oldest we have found. The more you know, the more you realise that you don't know much at all.
PAX
We can of course deduce the timeframe. the last epoch of the corridellian ice sheet is about 10,000 years old, and in many cases, you can trace the dates of rock to known volcanic eruptions (i.e. from Nebraska west to the pacific, you can date sediments back to 7700 years with ease--since they all have volcanic ash from the Mazama eruuption, and you can also do it 600,000 years or so from the last Yellowstone Caldera eruption). Trace elements and whatnot can give decent timeframe.
I'll get more into this tomorrow...
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
That's assuming you have some artifact to analyse. We have zippidy do-da on Noah. It comes as an oral narritive handed down for gerations until it was finally recorded by some ancient jewish folks. How do you date that with no artifact?
One thing that I have considered is that the flood could an ice age. The Bible makes claims of very long lived people in the early days.
PAX
Well, Noah lived 600 years before the flood.. I think that makes him older than Methuselah.
Any oral tradition story is going to have questionable fidelity to actual events. And not to derail your theory on the ice age, they don't just appear and disappear.. it takes about 3-15 thousand years for the ice age to end... if you're optimistic.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
but it takes maybe 2 hours for an ice dam to fail--especially since ice floats.
Further, We can learn a bit about it from the draining of Lake Missoula--which, when it failed, had threetime the water output than the world's riveres combined--meaning massive flood, and all low-ying costal areas flooded, and staying flooded for a LONG time until the oceans can take that water in.
All i'm saying is this: assuming that Noah did happen, most likely it happened near the end of the last ice age, where somewhere in the mountains a river was dammed up by continental ice sheet (not unlikely, considering the extent that the corridelian and laurentian ice sheets covered N. America), and created a large inland glacier lake. During that time sea lavels were lower, and river outputs were lower since mountains maintained more of their snowpack and glacier pack, and the monsoons were weaker. thus, most people lived then in areas that would be covered with water now.
While i'm not saying that it's what definitvely happened, most likely, thoruhg logic, we can assume that where Noah was, would be currnely under water, and when the glacial dam broke (which it would very quickly), it flooded EVERYTHING, and it took 40 days or so to abate to the point where there was accessible land. Further, since it's logical to assume that the ice age was ending, the monsoons were picking up in intensity, and it's likely that the "40 days of rain" happened when they were intensifying, and the people before wouldn't be used to such powerful ones.
Now, i'm not going to debate the finer points of WHY--like why he built the ark, or how many animals, ot the plausibility of putting them there, or even how he knew about the flood or if it did happen. But I will say that most likely, this is what happened.
But i do have to agree with word-of-mouth details. After all, the Native legends about the wizard Mazama were their explanation about it's cataclysmic eruption and the battle with him.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[URL=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9136200/]Chimp genetic code opens human frontiers
Genome comparison reveals many similarities — and crucial differences[/URL]
Interesting read.
