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Re: Global Warming
Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:37 PM on j-body.org
thanx to wikipedia:

One example of an important feedback process is ice-albedo feedback. The increased CO2 in the atmosphere warms the Earth's surface and leads to melting of ice near the poles. As the ice melts, land or open water takes its place. Both land and open water are less reflective than ice, and so absorb more solar radiation. This causes more warming, which in turn causes more melting, and the cycle continues.

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atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane have increased by 31% and 149% respectively above pre-industrial levels since 1750. This is considerably higher than at any time during the last 650,000 years, the period for which reliable data has been extracted from ice cores.

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Although global warming has been seen as potentially dangerous for some time, the first international attempt to define what constitutes a 'dangerous' level occurred at the Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change scientific conference in February 2005. This took place at Exeter, United Kingdom under the UK presidency of the G8 [63].

At the conference it was said that increasing damage was forecast if the globe warms to about 1 to 3 °Celsius (1.8 to 5.4 °Fahrenheit) above pre-industrial levels. It was concluded that the stabilisation of greenhouse gasses at the equivalent of 450 ppmv CO2 would provide a 50% likelihood of limiting global warming to the average figure of 2 °C (3.6 °F). Stabalisation below 400 ppm would give a relatively high certainty of not exceeding 2 °C, while stabilisation at 550ppm would mean it was likely that 2 °C would be exceeded.

It was stated that unless 'urgent and strenuous mitigation actions' were taken in the next 20 years, it was almost certain that by 2050 global temperatures will have risen to between 0.5 and 2 °C (0.9 and 3.6°F) above current levels. With carbon dioxide levels currently around 381 ppm and rising by 2ppm per year, without such action greenhouse gasses are likely to reach to reach 400ppm by 2016, 450ppm by 2041, and 550ppm by around 2091.

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jack- what seem like small changes to the human brain ie 1-2 degree temp change or 1-2% increase in gas or a 2ppm increase of co2 per year, can lead to largscale environmental issues.

just because the numbers seem small, dont let that fool you, the problem is VERY real. small temp changes can mean BIG changes in our environment.




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Re: Global Warming
Friday, September 08, 2006 7:11 AM on j-body.org
I don't see this as that big of a problem. After all, if this "global warming" trend happens, there's a chance that WE may become extinct.

The planet is fine--the people are @!#$.


Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: Global Warming
Friday, September 08, 2006 3:29 PM on j-body.org
Oh I realize its an issue but what I'm getting at is that its not one that we can do anything about. .02% of the total green house gas emissions ain't gonna require us to build an ark. Sorry.

Why not tell mom nature about that Keyoto (SP?) treaty so she'll stop screwing us over.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Global Warming
Friday, September 08, 2006 3:32 PM on j-body.org
Nah, Madame Nature thinks that in true human fashion, she should pay us back with intrest . While she can't do random torture of the elderly, shifting the agriculture balance from the americas to europe and siberia might work well.

And for the Kyoto protocol, amazing </sarc> how the US itself hasn't adopted it--ony some of it's cities.


Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: Global Warming
Friday, September 08, 2006 8:06 PM on j-body.org
New stuff I heard today is that each year atmospheric CO2 is going up by .5% and is at its highest level in 800 000 years. That is based on a guy studying bubbles trapped in ancient ice at the south pole as a baseline. My question (I couldn't ask because it was a documentry style broadcast) would be.. Is CO2 dispersed evenly over the Earth and if not, how do the current levels at the south pole compair. For all I know the poles could have less by nature and the "modern" air samples could have been measured in jet exhaust.

At any rate, the guy who made these findings was careful not to be alarmist and simply stated that he was reporting his finding and not making any predictions. He would only go as far as saying that every time they see a warming in the history (covering 5 ice ages) there has been elevated CO2 (but not as high as now) and cold periods have lowered CO2. He said in a round about way that he expects to see warming but because he has no historical levels this high to compair to he has no idea what the implications would be. He figures people have top deside if they are going to look to alternate energy sources or figure out how to live through the coming crisis. He also thought that the west would be OK but developing nations would have a hard time (money and resources to react).

He was not alarmist which was somewhat refreshing. Like I said though, he did not say where his modern air samples (claiming 380 ppm CO2 or something like that) came from. I hope they came from somewhere near the poilar ice cap the historical samples came from.

PAX
Re: Global Warming
Saturday, September 09, 2006 8:32 AM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:Oh I realize its an issue but what I'm getting at is that its not one that we can do anything about. .02% of the total green house gas emissions ain't gonna require us to build an ark. Sorry.


first, show ur source on this .02% deal.

second, minute changes in any ecosystem can cause DRASTIC changes and trickle down effects that can effects other eco systems and so on.




Creative Draft Art Media Forums
Re: Global Warming
Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:13 AM on j-body.org
who cares, first of all its complete BS, we are coming out of a small ice age, and we will go back to a hot, wet tropical planet like before.

second of all, the claticlismic melting of the polar ice caps is thousands of years away, i aint worrying about it, and niether are my grand kids!



Re: Global Warming
Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:48 AM on j-body.org
ignorant.

yes we are coming out of a small ice age. we do not know how hot it will get before the cycle starts too cool again, especially since right now co2 levels are higher than they have ever been in the last 800,000 years. and records show that temps go higher when co2 is higher.

there is no cataclysmic event on the horizon with global warming. global warming is a slow and steady change in the world wide ecosystem. its not some kind of meteor hit where a section of the earth immediately changes.


you need to do more research on the subject before you decide to make no attempts at all to not make the situation worse.

even if global warming did not exist, the mindset and technology we are pushing for is the next evolutionary steps in our progression. it is GOOD to eb fuel efficient, it is GOOD not to make excess waste products, it is GOOD to use renewable resources etc...




Creative Draft Art Media Forums
Re: Global Warming
Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:08 PM on j-body.org
no im definately not ignorant about the subject there, im just tried of everyone thinkin we can
stop it, its coming, consuimg less gas... untill all the SUV's, Semi's and HD Trucks are off the streets
there is nothing us sport compact people can do, we consume very little gas compared to them
and most honda's and Toyota's have virtually NO emissions. People will continue to do things wether
we like it or not

1st step:

here in AZ, our govenor is making a bill, that by the year 2010, SUV's will no longer be sold
by dealers, mainly because our dust and pollution problems arrive mostly from these.
if you want a 2010 Tahoe, move out of state. i like the idea, i hope it goes through.

but seriosuly, this planet spews out more Carbon in five minutes then we do in ten years
the cries for saving the planet are often silenced by the planets own activities, its just another
political problem that face politics.. we are not gonna speed it up enough to truely wipe us out any earlier.
when it comes, it comes....



Re: Global Warming
Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:56 PM on j-body.org
well neither you or I know how fast our contributions exactly are speeding up an intense warming period. So honestly, the only thing to do is to reduce and be as eficient as possible. even if our attempts are futile (which i dont think they are) it is still a wise evolutionary step to make our culture more environmentally concious and more efficient in our ways. that is the way to the future, not turning our backs because we think we may not be able to stop the earths warming.




Creative Draft Art Media Forums
Re: Global Warming
Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:04 AM on j-body.org
"A route unencumbered by perennial sea ice leading directly to the North Pole has been revealed by recent satellite pictures. European scientists indicated their shock as they noted a ship could sail from Europe's northern-most outpost directly to the pole, something that hasn't been possible during most of recorded human history. The rapid thawing of the perennial sea ice has political implications as the U.S., Canada, Russia and the EU jockey for control of the newly opened passages."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/climatewarmingarctic









Re: Global Warming
Thursday, September 21, 2006 9:07 AM on j-body.org
That is awesome news. It is amazing to know that someday all that water will be put back to where it came from.




Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
Re: Global Warming
Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:06 PM on j-body.org
Chris Crossont wrote:That is awesome news. It is amazing to know that someday all that water will be put back to where it came from.



Yes; where it came from... hope do dont live on a coast line.. do you have any concept of what would happen if 100% of the polar ice caps melted? not good. (for us)







Re: Global Warming
Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:32 PM on j-body.org
NASA Study Finds World Warmth Edging Ancient Levels
Sep. 25, 2006

A new study by NASA scientists finds that the world's temperature is reaching a level that has not been seen in thousands of years.



The study, led by James Hansen of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, N.Y., along with scientists from other organizations concludes that, because of a rapid warming trend over the past 30 years, the Earth is now reaching and passing through the warmest levels in the current interglacial period, which has lasted nearly 12,000 years. An "interglacial period" is a time in the Earth's history when the area of Earth covered by glaciers was similar or smaller than at the present time. Recent warming is forcing species of plants and animals to move toward the north and south poles.

Because of a rapid warming trend over the past 30 years, the Earth is now reaching and passing through the warmest levels seen in the last 12,000 years. This color-coded map shows average temperatures from 2001-2005 compared to a base period of temperatures from 1951-1980. Dark red indicates the greatest warming and purple indicates the greatest cooling. Click image to enlarge. Credit: NASA

The study used temperatures around the world taken during the last century. Scientists concluded that these data showed the Earth has been warming at the remarkably rapid rate of approximately 0.36° Fahrenheit (0.2° Celsius) per decade for the past 30 years.

"This evidence implies that we are getting close to dangerous levels of human-made pollution," said Hansen. In recent decades, human-made greenhouse gases have become the largest climate change factor. Greenhouse gases trap heat in the Earth's atmosphere and warm the surface. Some greenhouse gases, which include water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone, occur naturally, while others are due to human activities.

Because of a rapid warming trend over the past 30 years, the Earth is now reaching and passing through the warmest levels seen in the last 12,000 years. This color-coded map shows a progression of changing global surface temperatures from 1880 to 2005, the warmest ranked year on record. Dark red indicates the greatest warming and dark blue indicates the greatest cooling. Click image to view animation. Credit: NASA

The study notes that the world's warming is greatest at high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere, and it is larger over land than over ocean areas. The enhanced warming at high latitudes is attributed to effects of ice and snow. As the Earth warms, snow and ice melt, uncovering darker surfaces that absorb more sunlight and increase warming, a process called a positive feedback. Warming is less over ocean than over land because of the great heat capacity of the deep-mixing ocean, which causes warming to occur more slowly there.

Hansen and his colleagues in New York collaborated with David Lea and Martin Medina-Elizade of UCSB to obtain comparisons of recent temperatures with the history of the Earth over the past million years. The California researchers obtained a record of tropical ocean surface temperatures from the magnesium content in the shells of microscopic sea surface animals, as recorded in ocean sediments.

Data from this study reveal that the Earth has been warming approximately 0.2 degrees Celsius (0.36 Fahrenheit) per decade for the past 30 years. This rapid warming has brought global temperature to within about one degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit) of the maximum estimated temperature during the past million years. Credit: NASA

One of the findings from this collaboration is that the Western Equatorial Pacific and Indian Oceans are now as warm as, or warmer than, at any prior time in the Holocene. The Holocene is the relatively warm period that has existed for almost 12,000 years, since the end of the last major ice age. The Western Pacific and Indian Oceans are important because, as these researchers show, temperature change there is indicative of global temperature change. Therefore, by inference, the world as a whole is now as warm as, or warmer than, at any time in the Holocene.

According to Lea, "The Western Pacific is important for another reason, too: it is a major source of heat for the world's oceans and for the global atmosphere."

Image right: The "greenhouse effect" is the warming of climate that results when the atmosphere traps heat radiating from Earth toward space. Certain gases in the atmosphere resemble glass in a greenhouse, allowing sunlight to pass into the "greenhouse," but blocking Earth's heat from escaping into space. The gases that contribute to the greenhouse effect include water vapor, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane, nitrous oxides, and chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). Credit: U.S. EPA

In contrast to the Western Pacific, the researchers find that the Eastern Pacific Ocean has not shown an equal magnitude of warming. They explain the lesser warming in the East Pacific Ocean, near South America, as being due to the fact this region is kept cool by upwelling, rising of deeper colder water to shallower depths. The deep ocean layers have not yet been affected much by human-made warming.

Hansen and his colleagues suggest that the increased temperature difference between the Western and Eastern Pacific may boost the likelihood of strong El Ninos, such as those of 1983 and 1998. An El Nino is an event that typically occurs every several years when the warm surface waters in the West Pacific slosh eastward toward South America, in the process altering weather patterns around the world.

Image left: This study notes that the greatest warming is occurring at high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere. Here, white, snow-covered terrain acts a giant reflector that bounces incoming solar radiation back into space. As the snow cover melts, the percentage of sunlight reflected, or "albedo", decreases. Instead, the darker ocean and exposed ground can absorb the light and heat-up, thus adding more energy for continued melting. Click image to view animation. Credit: NASA

The most important result found by these researchers is that the warming in recent decades has brought global temperature to a level within about one degree Celsius (1.8°F) of the maximum temperature of the past million years. According to Hansen, "That means that further global warming of 1 degree Celsius defines a critical level. If warming is kept less than that, effects of global warming may be relatively manageable. During the warmest interglacial periods the Earth was reasonably similar to today. But if further global warming reaches 2 or 3 degrees Celsius, we will likely see changes that make Earth a different planet than the one we know. The last time it was that warm was in the middle Pliocene, about three million years ago, when sea level was estimated to have been about 25 meters (80 feet) higher than today."

Global warming is already beginning to have noticeable effects in nature. Plants and animals can survive only within certain climatic zones, so with the warming of recent decades many of them are beginning to migrate poleward. A study that appeared in Nature Magazine in 2003 found that 1700 plant, animal and insect species moved poleward at an average rate of 6 kilometers (about 4 miles) per decade in the last half of the 20th century.

That migration rate is not fast enough to keep up with the current rate of movement of a given temperature zone, which has reached about 40 kilometers (about 25 miles) per decade in the period 1975 to 2005. "Rapid movement of climatic zones is going to be another stress on wildlife," according to Hansen. "It adds to the stress of habitat loss due to human developments. If we do not slow down the rate of global warming, many species are likely to become extinct. In effect we are pushing them off the planet."

Related Links:
+ Warming Climate tutorial

+ NOAA Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory El Nino page

+ NASA's Climate Change Resource Reel

+ U.S. EPA site about Greenhouse Gases

Reference
Hansen, J., Mki. Sato, R. Ruedy, K. Lo, D.W. Lea, and M. Medina-Elizade 2006. Global temperature change. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 103, 14288-14293, doi:10.1073/pnas.0606291103.

Media Contact
Rob Gutro, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, 301-286-8955






Re: Global Warming
Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:08 PM on j-body.org
^^^all of that is based upon the asumption that what happening is not natural--at least the way that the article is laid out.

Keep in mind, the Earth has been capable of sustaining life for the better part of 3 billion years. Just looking at the Holocene, you're looking at a slice of .0004% of earth's total history--much of which we have no clue how things transpired or happened.

In other words, it would be taking the context of a day (earth's livable history--estimated at 3 billion years), judging the weather over the period of 1/3 of a second (the holocene), and based on that, saying tomorrow we're headed for disaster.

I'm not buying it. even if we're causing our own extinction, I'm not convinced that it's a bad thing. further, i have no sympathy for people who live on a coast or in a flood plain. Disaster looms everywhere, no matter where you live. Pick which disaster you can come to terms with the easiest.


Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: Global Warming
Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:45 PM on j-body.org
3 billion years........that is funny.


Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
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Re: Global Warming
Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:14 PM on j-body.org
whats funny about scientific fact? ^^

and keeper

the earth is estimated at 4.5 billions years old

you will need to redo those statistics because the earth has not held life for 3 billion years.

complex life started as single cell amoeba 1.8 billion years ago


also while the span of the halocene seems tiny which it is, you have to realize that as the years pass from the creation of the earth the amount of time it takes to go from period to period where major evolutionary bounds and changes take place get more condensed.

for instance 770 million years passed from when the earth was created until bacteria first formed.

then apes fist appear 18 millions years ago. then it only takes roughly 13 millions years for apes to evolve into homo habilis.

my point is as time passes on earth the length of time it takes for leaps and bounds to happen in evolution and change decreases.

--------------------

also when studies speak of global warming, they are not judging their obvservations soley on the halocene period. i believe we have glacier ice data on co2 levels back to 800,000 years ago. that is direct scientific evidence which is a bit ot of the halocene period. but we have other data that does nto give us direct co2 or other temperature numbers but rough climate estimates to compare current climate with.


also, it wouldnt be very practical to judge tomorrows weather on data from billions of years ago tho. so in your example checking the wether over 1/3 second to tell what the wether would be tomorrow. well thats not a good example. because 1/3 of a second is roughly 12,000 years (length of holocene) that would make in your example a day equivelant to about 1 millions years. you wouldnt use the wether 1 millions years ago to predect tomorrow weather.

so in essence using data from just the holocene makes sence to predict future weather. since the holocene was 12,000 years you should be able to extra at least a few thousand years of weather predictions and trends based off of that.


anyways i just felt like arguing and looking some things up. so bleh. plus im tired.







Creative Draft Art Media Forums
Re: Global Warming
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:04 AM on j-body.org
the earth is estimated at 4.5 billions years old

you will need to redo those statistics because the earth has not held life for 3 billion years.

complex life started as single cell amoeba 1.8 billion years ago


also while the span of the halocene seems tiny which it is, you have to realize that as the years pass from the creation of the earth the amount of time it takes to go from period to period where major evolutionary bounds and changes take place get more condensed.

for instance 770 million years passed from when the earth was created until bacteria first formed.

then apes fist appear 18 millions years ago. then it only takes roughly 13 millions years for apes to evolve into homo habilis.


It takes A LOT of faith to believe in that stuff. Sounds wonderful.......now if they could only come up with evidence to support it.


Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
Re: Global Warming
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:36 AM on j-body.org
have u NOT read national geographic, talked to a biology professor and been under a rock with your eyes and ears covered?

evolution is not contradictory to religion. they work hand in hand. but anyways man, you have your views and i have mine. i dont want a religion-evo debate in this topic.


if you have issues in believing how old the earth is, well im sorry. but the age of the earth is scientifically proven through radio carbon dating and other methods.






Creative Draft Art Media Forums
Re: Global Warming
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:39 AM on j-body.org
I actually saw a finding once that found blue-gree algae fossils in 3.5 billion year old rock, it might have been proven false, but that's what i was basing it on. Even so, you're looking at a time frame of a fraction of a percent and trying to make an educated guess...i think there's a lot of room for error.

And for climate patterns and the like, we need to not look so much at what happened 12000 years ago, when we started the upswing, but rather the last time we had a similar upswing and the earth in similar conditions.

Even so, what is happeneing has happened before. We aren't in the worst hothouse, or in the worst ice house. these aren't the highest CO˛ levels. the problem is that the change that is happeneing threatens us as a specie, and it has us scared--even thogh we will become extinct eventually.

My poiint was the article, based in fact, has the facts presented to support the bias that they are going for. it's similar to say that because a murderer killed 2 people on the downtown bus, transferred, and killed 2 people on the crosstown bus, (facts), that it is reason to discontinue the transfer policy.

IMHO, yes, we need to be more eco-freindly and find ways to coexist with Earth and nature rather than thinking that we are above it (just talk to anyone that was in New Orleans last year and ask them if they felt superior to nature back then). But, part of that is changing and adapting to what thing will com, rather than trying to keep things static and unchanging. Besdies, if the earth gets warmer, less reason for hot women to wear bbulky clothes .

Oh, and one point of clarification. Ancient rocks are dated from uranium/lead dating. Carbon-14 dating is for biomass.

Quote:

It takes A LOT of faith to believe in that stuff. Sounds wonderful.......now if they could only come up with evidence to support it.

Conversely, one could say the same about the Bible.


Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: Global Warming
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:22 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

It takes A LOT of faith to believe in that stuff. Sounds wonderful.......now if they could only come up with evidence to support it.

[quote=Keeper of the Light™]Conversely, one could say the same about the Bible.
Amen.







Re: Global Warming
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:02 PM on j-body.org
Nathaniel O'Flaherty wrote:have u NOT read national geographic, talked to a biology professor and been under a rock with your eyes and ears covered?

evolution is not contradictory to religion. they work hand in hand. but anyways man, you have your views and i have mine. i dont want a religion-evo debate in this topic.


if you have issues in believing how old the earth is, well im sorry. but the age of the earth is scientifically proven through radio carbon dating and other methods.


Not trying to pick a fight or anything. I was just pointing out that science is fine as long as it does not contradict God's word. That is all.


Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
Re: Global Warming
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:28 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

Not trying to pick a fight or anything. I was just pointing out that science is fine as long as it does not contradict God's word. That is all.


ridiculous... the Bible is not a science book nor was it meant to be one. It was written by a bunch of men in the ancient world, they had no conception, or rather IDEA of any of the science that we know now. So you cannot say that anything regarding the age of the Earth, evolution, etc. actually goes against God because the Bible never talks about it.

Find me a passage in which the Bible says "the Earth is x years old", or "man came x years after the dinosaurs", or "evolution is a lie", and you can declare that this goes against "Gods word".

Back to the topic at hand




Re: Global Warming
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:36 PM on j-body.org
one more tidbit... if you claim that the Bible DOES say something about it, that is simply your INTERPRETATION and nothing more... someone could interpret passage so-and-so of Genesis this way and another person could come up with a completely different interpretation. Who's to say that your interpretation is right?

Science, on the other hand, is set up where an idea is defined and accepted THROUGHOUT the majority of the scientific community. Yes, ideas can be modified in response to new discoveries, but actual tangible evidence cannot be disputed. The Bible has the burden of proof, not the science, because science has all the evidence pointing in its direction...




Re: Global Warming
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:46 PM on j-body.org
And back doing the converse, science is limited to human perception. If we can't perceieve something, all we have is it's effect on things we can, an the instruments we build to sense things like that are always based upon that limitation.

The way i see it though, the main problems with science and religion is that there are humans involved.


Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
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