From Michael Moore to Dubya - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:07 AM on j-body.org
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Emor8T is about as bullheaded about a lot of things (particularly liberals) as he thinks other are.

It's not like he'd read a sarcastic letter.

Or anything that questions a president.

It would require that he pull his head out of the sand, and think about what is being said and asked.



Question the president> By all means. do it.

But not with Micheal Moore, fighting lies with lies isn't going to prove anything.

Bush lies, I'll admit it. The whole New Orleans issue is just a mess. Bush dropped the ball.
But if you want me to admit Micheal Moore has any real value to any arguement regardless of fact or not, it aint going to happen.

IMO there isn't anyone down there doing anything correct.

Bush cut finding yes, so has every other president for the past decade.

But Micheal Moores sarcastism, or really anyones sarcasm in the face of a serious issue is just obnxious and ignorant.




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you figure things out. And while its important
to actually be interested in the subject you are
studying, its mainly an opportunity to get away
from society in general and continue to pursue
you interests in what is most certainly not the
real world" - Lewis Black

Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:59 AM on j-body.org
I refer to another comment I made: How often are you going to let someone kick you in the balls before you say enough?

Moore got the point across. Unless you ignore what he has to say because you'd rather not think.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Saturday, September 03, 2005 6:29 PM on j-body.org
Adam Asmus wrote:
AGuSTiN wrote:Do us all a favor if it isn't true.... SHOW US WHAT ISN'T TRUE.


In bowling for columbine....


Ok stop right there. I guess I'm not making myself clear.

From the letter above, what about it is not true? I don't want to hear it's not true because Michael Moore told a lie or bent some truth in the past. I want to know what is not true about it? Newt, Frist and many other Republicans all seem to agree the President screwed up.

I'll post that link if you want it, but it's not hard to find on Google News


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Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Saturday, September 03, 2005 6:54 PM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN wrote:
Adam Asmus wrote:
AGuSTiN wrote:Do us all a favor if it isn't true.... SHOW US WHAT ISN'T TRUE.


In bowling for columbine....


Ok stop right there. I guess I'm not making myself clear.

From the letter above, what about it is not true? I don't want to hear it's not true because Michael Moore told a lie or bent some truth in the past. I want to know what is not true about it? Newt, Frist and many other Republicans all seem to agree the President screwed up.

I'll post that link if you want it, but it's not hard to find on Google News





Moore wrote:Any idea where all our helicopters are?


They were there from day one. The media just didnt show it.

Moore wrote:Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are?


Again there from day 1 just cause the media doesnt jump on it doesnt mean he isnt doing anything.



Although I follow moore here:

Moore wrote:It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town.


They still had feet. And there were plenty of shelters being open for them. They were just stupid enough to stay.


____________________________________________________________________
Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.



Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Saturday, September 03, 2005 7:22 PM on j-body.org
Jbody2nr wrote:
Moore wrote:Any idea where all our helicopters are?


They were there from day one. The media just didnt show it.

Moore wrote:Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are?


Again there from day 1 just cause the media doesnt jump on it doesnt mean he isnt doing anything.


You're making this too easy!! Theee ol' Media-is-liberal myth!! In the days of FOXNews and GE-the-supplier-of-federal-weapons owned NBC!!

Published: 3:23 PM PDT, September 3, 2005
NEW ORLEANS -- President Bush announced today he was sending an additional 7,000 soldiers and Marines to the storm-stricken Gulf Coast region, nearly tripling the military deployment there. They were expected to arrive within 24 to 72 hours.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-katrina3sep03,0,648880.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Wow, only 7,000 TRIPLES the total, huh?

Jbody2nr wrote:
Although I follow moore here:

Moore wrote:It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town.


They still had feet. And there were plenty of shelters being open for them. They were just stupid enough to stay.


That's very easy to say, and a-typical of a talk-show radio quality Republican to say. Exactly why I left the party, cause of know-nothing statements like that...

Simply put, without money, for many there was no escape.
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050903/NEWS02/509030322/1019/NEWS03

Even conservative NewsMax doesn't pin this one on the poor...
A feckless state governor and New Orleans' mayor repeated the same mistakes they made with Ivan, and hundreds of thousands of largely poor people were forced to endure conditions that one associates with the Third World - not the richest nation on the planet.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/3/152800.shtml


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Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 5:00 AM on j-body.org
Uh the President doesn't mobilize the National Guard, the Gov of the State does. She isn't a republican.

I agree however that the response to this and the state of preperation was poor. It has NOTHING to do with National Guard Members being in Iraq however. Hell, the idiots from the NO police dept walked off the job. Sorry, but NO is nothing but a corrupt poor pathetic excuse for a city. If it weren't for the Mardi Gras and the shipping industry nuking the city would be better for everyone.
Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 9:57 AM on j-body.org
mrgto wrote:Uh the President doesn't mobilize the National Guard, the Gov of the State does. She isn't a republican.


For a military website:
http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/story.asp?id=1354


"Unlike their active and reserve counterparts, members of the Army and Air National Guard can be called on to serve two different masters: their state governors and their commander in chief."

...

"What they don't want, Blum said, is to have their states left "uncovered" because they've contributed too many troops to the national mission."


So Moore was saying the guardsmen aren't available for the emergency duty because of overseas deployments. So, is it largely true or not?


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Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 10:58 AM on j-body.org
There were plenty of NG to serve when called, unfortunatly they weren't called out in LA. In Mississippi, the Gov called them out early and told them and the State Police to shoot looters on the spot.

And FYI, if you are listening to MM for your facts I feel very sad for you.
Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 11:42 AM on j-body.org
Fine form: obfusctate, ignore and redirect.. mrgto, I think I missed ya.

Never admit you're wrong.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 2:47 PM on j-body.org
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Fine form: obfusctate, ignore and redirect.. mrgto, I think I missed ya.

Never admit you're wrong.



Feel free to prove to me where I am wrong with facts. Thanks.

There is plenty of blame pie to pass around in this thing and I am NOT letting the Bush Admin off the hook but the stupid @!#$ MM posts is nothing but that, drivel.
Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 3:12 PM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN wrote:
mrgto wrote:Uh the President doesn't mobilize the National Guard, the Gov of the State does. She isn't a republican.


For a military website:
http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/story.asp?id=1354


"Unlike their active and reserve counterparts, members of the Army and Air National Guard can be called on to serve two different masters: their state governors and their commander in chief."



Need I say more?

And Moore is saying a whole lot more about this than Ann Coulter or Bill No-spin-unless-it's-RNC-approved O'reilly.

Sitting on their hands... Seems like the president was following their lead.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.



Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 3:17 PM on j-body.org
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
AGuSTiN wrote:
mrgto wrote:Uh the President doesn't mobilize the National Guard, the Gov of the State does. She isn't a republican.


For a military website:
http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/story.asp?id=1354


"Unlike their active and reserve counterparts, members of the Army and Air National Guard can be called on to serve two different masters: their state governors and their commander in chief."



Need I say more?

And Moore is saying a whole lot more about this than Ann Coulter or Bill No-spin-unless-it's-RNC-approved O'reilly.

Sitting on their hands... Seems like the president was following their lead.




Please tell me what the Gov. of LA do? Did she do more than the Bush Administration? What about the Mayor of NO? Half his police force said @!#$ it and walked off the job.

It is funny how people bitch(especially Canadians who have no @!#$ say on what goes on here) that they want states rights and bitch when the federal gov gets involved THEN turn around and bitch when the Fed. Govt fails to respond to something quickly enough.
Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 3:24 PM on j-body.org
Please, show me where in my post that I absolved anyone from blame?

And before you tell me I no say on what goes on in the south, I have friends in Law Enforcement and in the computer industry in Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas. I can say whatever I bloody well want, and if you think that I don't have a right to say it, STUFF IT.

I'm on call for a trip down there to help the FBI/State and Locals to retrieve and Ident bodies. Until you have a few dozen autopsy's under your belt, your self-riteousness has no sound board with me.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 3:33 PM on j-body.org
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Please, show me where in my post that I absolved anyone from blame?

And before you tell me I no say on what goes on in the south, I have friends in Law Enforcement and in the computer industry in Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas. I can say whatever I bloody well want, and if you think that I don't have a right to say it, STUFF IT.

I'm on call for a trip down there to help the FBI/State and Locals to retrieve and Ident bodies. Until you have a few dozen autopsy's under your belt, your self-riteousness has no sound board with me.


Where did I say that?

Do me a favor, concentrate on your own country and it's own issues.


Uh, actually I have viewed a few autopsy's just a FYI. I have also recovered a few bodies from auto wrecks. You're barking down the wrong tree there. Saving LIVES is the priority right now not body recovery.

As to the point of this thread, for YEARS(WAY BEFORE BUSH WAS EVER IN OFFICE) there was never a need to raise the levey's in NO as no giant storm had ever hit it in the force that this one did. Hell, half the morons down there figured if they rode out Camille('69) they could ride out this storm too. Sorry, but hurricanes don't work that way. Maybe another tragedy can be avoided with the next storm and people will take the warnings more seriously and get the F out. Many in Florida know it all too well after Andrew. AND the state and local authorities better have the balls to PHYSICALLY PULL people out of their homes and get them out of the danger areas.
Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 4:49 PM on j-body.org
mrgto wrote:
Where did I say that?

Do me a favor, concentrate on your own country and it's own issues.


Do yourself a favour, don't try to marginalise someone that has an informed opinion regarding a situation that they have vested interest in. You'll look less of ass when you type something.

Quote:


Uh, actually I have viewed a few autopsy's just a FYI. I have also recovered a few bodies from auto wrecks. You're barking down the wrong tree there. Saving LIVES is the priority right now not body recovery.


Congratulation! You want a hero biscuit?

And thanks, I'm not idiot enough to think that the living are second priority. I'm a week's standing notice.

Quote:


As to the point of this thread, for YEARS(WAY BEFORE BUSH WAS EVER IN OFFICE) there was never a need to raise the levey's in NO as no giant storm had ever hit it in the force that this one did.


If there was never a need to raise the levy's, then please expound on why there was tens of billions of dollars allocated to that project? And while you're at, please expound further as to why it was put off? It seems that federal cash was involved if it could be pulled inorder to finance the war in Iraq.

Quote:

Hell, half the morons down there figured if they rode out Camille('69) they could ride out this storm too. Sorry, but hurricanes don't work that way. Maybe another tragedy can be avoided with the next storm and people will take the warnings more seriously and get the F out.


I hear a person that doesn't understand the words WORKING POOR. Most of those people that stayed behind had nowhere to go, and no money to go there... The ones that Evac'ed to the Superdome and Convention Centre were in fine shape as well.

Quote:

Many in Florida know it all too well after Andrew. AND the state and local authorities better have the balls to PHYSICALLY PULL people out of their homes and get them out of the danger areas.


They don't have that right. You can stay in the middle of a burning building if you so damn well choose, what's the difference between there and a swap-street? Nothing... it's a place of peril, and if you want out that's your choice. If not, they've done their job.


Now again, You're not admitting you're wrong, where you said that state governors have to call for the Nat'l Guard, and Agustin pointed you out wrong... and he even did you the courtesy of backing up his word with a link to the NG.

You are not addressing what I said, that at least Moore is actually SAYING something about what happened, unlike Coulter and O'Reilly.

You're also obfuscating the point of the thread: Namely, George W Bush not acting fast enough to the emergency.

If you want to make into a Michael Moore thing, or about me butting out, go ahead, You're sticking true to form.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 5:05 PM on j-body.org
So now your Canadian opinion is more important than my opinion as a US citizen? Keep dreaming buddy.

Hey clown, I wasn't the one spouting about how many autopsies I have particiapated in. Those are things I ususually keep to myself. Feel free to keep spouting about it because in your feeble mind it makes you more of a man or something.

Again, I'm not involved in the projects but obviously MANY never thought it was a priority based on WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN THE PAST. I know, it's always about the financing of the war in iraq. That seems to be the common bush haters main theme other than the lack of response. God you jokers sound like a broken record again.

Nowhere to go? Then the corrupt police, oppssss wait, maybe the GOv. of the State should have ordered the national guard out EARLY before the hurricane hit and ordered and forced people out...but god forbid if it backfired on them for doing that and taking people awway from their homes......hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.



Again, NEITHER BUSH NOR THE DEMOCRAT GOV OF LA called out the National Guard. One is just as guilty as the other. Get that through your thick skull.
Moore would say something about Bush any chance he gets, he just loves to choose the politisizing of a rescue effort.
I have had my sisters wedding the last few days so I have not been watching what O'Reilly and or Coulter have said. And you think that my life revolves around his show....hot tip for you, it doesn't. Seems to me that you have some sort of fantasy about him though.....

I've always contended that Bush nor the Gov't on ALL LEVELS didn't do enough and didn't envision this kind of destruction. Keep saying that I didn't say it, evenutually it becomes truth in your mind...
Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 5:40 PM on j-body.org
mrgto wrote:So now your Canadian opinion is more important than my opinion as a US citizen? Keep dreaming buddy.
Calm down. I never said that. I said don't discount my opinion. Big difference.

Quote:


Hey clown, I wasn't the one spouting about how many autopsies I have particiapated in. Those are things I ususually keep to myself. Feel free to keep spouting about it because in your feeble mind it makes you more of a man or something.


Again, calm down. I'm tossing it out lightly. And I'm not putting out numbers, it's not pissing contest.

I'm also not calling you names either, good form </Sarcasm>.

Quote:

Again, I'm not involved in the projects but obviously MANY never thought it was a priority based on WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN THE PAST. I know, it's always about the financing of the war in iraq. That seems to be the common bush haters main theme other than the lack of response. God you jokers sound like a broken record again.


The fact that you're not addressing the issue (ie. why there was money allocated to the project if it wasn't going to be necessary ) Doesn't sound like a broken record, it sounds like a bad song that was made up on the spot.

Where the money was, and why it got diverted from something that would have been worthwhile seems to me to something worth discovering.

Quote:

Nowhere to go? Then the corrupt police, oppssss wait, maybe the GOv. of the State should have ordered the national guard out EARLY before the hurricane hit and ordered and forced people out...but god forbid if it backfired on them for doing that and taking people awway from their homes......hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.


Sure, but, when you see a cat 4/5 hurricane coming, and all major arteries out of the area plugged up, what would you do? I think they should have been there to facilitate an evacuation, definitely, but if someone wants to stay, that's their business.

Quote:

Again, NEITHER BUSH NOR THE DEMOCRAT GOV OF LA called out the National Guard. One is just as guilty as the other. Get that through your thick skull.


Get this through yours: I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT!

Also get this throught your skull: REINFORCED LEVYS WOULD HAVE KEPT NOLA FROM BECOMING A SWAMP!

Quote:

Moore would say something about Bush any chance he gets, he just loves to choose the politisizing of a rescue effort.


The fact that he's making Bush the one of ultimate culpability is not at all surprising. The buck stops at his desk.

Quote:

I have had my sisters wedding the last few days so I have not been watching what O'Reilly and or Coulter have said.
Congrats to her!! I hope everything turned out well. (see, I'm not a complete dick!)

And to fill you in, They've said nothing.

Quote:


And you think that my life revolves around his show....hot tip for you, it doesn't. Seems to me that you have some sort of fantasy about him though.....
No, but I know where his source material comes from, and it's of dubious origin, but that's not germaine to the thread.

Quote:

I've always contended that Bush nor the Gov't on ALL LEVELS didn't do enough and didn't envision this kind of destruction. Keep saying that I didn't say it, evenutually it becomes truth in your mind...

Okay, again, I agree, this was a fuck up of epic proportions, and yes, everyone dropped the ball.

However, I dare say, that while Bush could not have stopped the hurricane, the levy system could have been upgraded with the allocated money within his power to revoke. I am assigning blame to his office, and while he couldn't have forseen it, it was his (and others, I'm not stingy with blame) doings that allowed a clearly defined civil project languish and then ultimately die for other purposes, IMHO less worthy.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 5:51 PM on j-body.org
Matt, the levee's were NOT the problem, it was the floodwalls along the canals. I just saw it on 60 Minutes.
Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 6:17 PM on j-body.org
Really? Were the flood walls not included in the project?



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 7:40 PM on j-body.org







Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 9:43 PM on j-body.org
A little text to go with the horrendously large pic?



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.



Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 10:22 PM on j-body.org
" a middle aged african american man smiling"

theres your text


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Sunday, September 04, 2005 10:32 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

Okay, again, I agree, this was a @!#$ up of epic proportions, and yes, everyone dropped the ball.


^^^What suprises me the most is that the language filter didn't catch this one the first time around, but it does in the quote.




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Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Monday, September 05, 2005 1:31 AM on j-body.org
Thanks, GAM, for keeping this up.

Seems like the only error Moore made in his post, is that he assigns blame SOLELY to the President.

Other than that, seems pretty right on. I think we all agree that there is *plenty* of blame to be passed around.


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Re: From Michael Moore to Dubya
Monday, September 05, 2005 5:48 AM on j-body.org
Oh, and FYI, the Levy system, to be upgraded to withstand a Cat5 storm, would have had to have been STARTED more than 10 years ago. 10 years ago Bush wasn't in office.
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