This is the most laughable thread I've ever read. How did something this stupid ever make it onto a J-body enthusiast website?
Chris Crossont wrote:[quote=Keeper of the Light™]Quote:
Ever notice how people tell you as Cathoic you believe something that isn't true? I had one person tell me that we worship Mary, um not quite, we pray to Mary, big difference.
Now you see the bull@!#$ those wiccans/pagans have to go through at the hands of ignorant christians--and others.
No, we don't worship satan--most of us don't even BELIEVE in satan.
No, we don't perform human, or even animal sacrifice
No, we don't curse people, it's violates the "do what ye will and harm ye none" tenet.
Ignorant Christians? My friend, if you are not of God then you are of satan. There are no others. Try to clean it up all you want but unless you are a follower of Jesus Christ, you are a follower of Satan.
This last line really caught my attention, and rather p!ssed me off. Sorry buddy, but I don't need to follow anybody to make my life complete or to give it "meaning". The main reason religion was created was to control uneducated people by scaring the crap out of them using the unknown of that period of time (remember that 'burning bush'? - there was an interesting piece on the Discovery channel a while ago about a little shrub that's found in the middle east that propogates itself through spontaneous combustion... hmm, it's just a perfectly natural phenomenon that wasn't caused by any 'god'. ). If you think about it, religion is behind the vast majority of wars ( including the 2000+ years of war in the middle east/Europe, 9-11, and this Iraq disaster), and has done it's best to slow down the progress of humanity in order to control it. The friggin Vatican seems to be at least 200 years behind the times when it comes to recognizing basic things such as womens rights, not to mention indisputable scientific facts (ie the Earth is ROUND!). Where's all the greatness and salvation that comes with believing? Nothing but death, control of the masses, mis-truths, and ingnorance.
Yep, I'm an atheist (oops, I guess I'm a satanist by your reasoning), and find no reason to believe in something that we have absolutely NO PROOF exists - it's a belief, that's it! You can argue for years that science hasn't disproven religion, but you can't exactly prove any god exists either. Also, the bible was written my people, not any "god". The current version that's out there has gone through so many different people/translations (ever hear of the game 'broken telephone') that there's no way to know what the original cult leaders said.
I'm not terribly concerned if I've p!ssed all the religious people off. I have absolutely no problems with anybody's beliefs (a considerable proportion of my family is VERY religious), unless they think they have the right to push them on me. When a complete retard like this Chris jack@ass writes that I have to believe in his believes or I'm an f'n satanist, that steps on my rights as a person and I'm not going to sit on my @ss and take it. Chris, you can take your views and shove them right up your @ss!!! Do me (and the rest of the satanists who use this site) a favour and don't ever post crap like this on this site ever again.
unholy savage.....u must be new here, i don't recognize you, so welcome. but just FYI someone who follows satan is a devil worshipper, not a satanist, us satanists are an entirely different bunch than devil worshippers, a DW is someone who beleves in the chrisian faith and just chooses to like the bad guy in the story, a satanist doesn't beleive any of that storybook crap that is called the bible.
sorry for ranting but its a pet peeve of mine is people who dont know or care that there is a big difference between a true satanist and a devil worshipper
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Mikec2003, you're all right! I normally hang around the audio forums. I just bought my z24 this spring, so I haven't been here long. This is the first time I even bothered looking at the war forum, and I couldn't let this retard get away with forcing his 2nd century views on others who don't share them. My biggest p!ssoff with people like this Chris idiot is that they probably wouldn't even accept the sky is blue unless they read it in the bible. Why is it that some people refuse to think for themselves, and then consciously chose to force ideals and beliefs taken from a 2000+yr old storybook written by the ancient David Koreshes of the time? It just makes me shake my head in disgust...
i agree
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Hahahaha wrote:I do not want to slam you for what you say, but point out your lack of understanding.
By calling yourself native American (which is technically true, I know) you are showing a lack of respect for the Aboriginal peoples of Nothe America and decieving others who would assume you meant aboriginal by saying native. I for one was thinking along those lines until I saw your picture. I'm sure that most who read your profile would make the same assumtion. That is a deception weather purposefull or not.
The church that you profess as evil the one that all of your propaganda is aimed at, the Catholic church. Catholic means universal.
It is through the Catholic church that Christianity was able to spread and flourish. It is the first, the original and the one that adhears most closely to its docturn. I am not Catholic, but I know to give respect when it's due.
PAX
Were the Indians the Aboriginal people of this land? Did they kill off another? Who knows? I prefer to use words as they are meant to be used. I am not trying to decieve anyone. If asked where my ancestors came from, I would say that they came from the same two parents that everyone else had and we are again back to square one.
As far as the Catholic church being the "original" church, how can that be when it was created over 200 years after the "real" church was started by Christ Himself. I have to disagree with your point about sticking to the doctrine of the word of God because it is like a night and day difference. I am not going to argue the point and I just suggest that you read the bible and see if what the Catholic church teaches is even close. I contend that it is not and that is why during the dark ages the Catholic church made it illegal to even read the bible.
Anyway, I hope you have a great day. may the Lord bless you.
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
unholysavage wrote:This is the most laughable thread I've ever read. How did something this stupid ever make it onto a J-body enthusiast website?
Chris Crossont wrote:[quote=Keeper of the Light™]Quote:
Ever notice how people tell you as Cathoic you believe something that isn't true? I had one person tell me that we worship Mary, um not quite, we pray to Mary, big difference.
Now you see the bull@!#$ those wiccans/pagans have to go through at the hands of ignorant christians--and others.
No, we don't worship satan--most of us don't even BELIEVE in satan.
No, we don't perform human, or even animal sacrifice
No, we don't curse people, it's violates the "do what ye will and harm ye none" tenet.
Ignorant Christians? My friend, if you are not of God then you are of satan. There are no others. Try to clean it up all you want but unless you are a follower of Jesus Christ, you are a follower of Satan.
This last line really caught my attention, and rather p!ssed me off. Sorry buddy, but I don't need to follow anybody to make my life complete or to give it "meaning". The main reason religion was created was to control uneducated people by scaring the crap out of them using the unknown of that period of time (remember that 'burning bush'? - there was an interesting piece on the Discovery channel a while ago about a little shrub that's found in the middle east that propogates itself through spontaneous combustion... hmm, it's just a perfectly natural phenomenon that wasn't caused by any 'god'. ). If you think about it, religion is behind the vast majority of wars ( including the 2000+ years of war in the middle east/Europe, 9-11, and this Iraq disaster), and has done it's best to slow down the progress of humanity in order to control it. The friggin Vatican seems to be at least 200 years behind the times when it comes to recognizing basic things such as womens rights, not to mention indisputable scientific facts (ie the Earth is ROUND!). Where's all the greatness and salvation that comes with believing? Nothing but death, control of the masses, mis-truths, and ingnorance.
Yep, I'm an atheist (oops, I guess I'm a satanist by your reasoning), and find no reason to believe in something that we have absolutely NO PROOF exists - it's a belief, that's it! You can argue for years that science hasn't disproven religion, but you can't exactly prove any god exists either. Also, the bible was written my people, not any "god". The current version that's out there has gone through so many different people/translations (ever hear of the game 'broken telephone') that there's no way to know what the original cult leaders said.
I'm not terribly concerned if I've p!ssed all the religious people off. I have absolutely no problems with anybody's beliefs (a considerable proportion of my family is VERY religious), unless they think they have the right to push them on me. When a complete retard like this Chris jack@ass writes that I have to believe in his believes or I'm an f'n satanist, that steps on my rights as a person and I'm not going to sit on my @ss and take it. Chris, you can take your views and shove them right up your @ss!!! Do me (and the rest of the satanists who use this site) a favour and don't ever post crap like this on this site ever again.
I guess this means we can't be friends huh? Anyway, Jesus was hated during His time on earth and He is still hated by most of the world. I count it joy when people like you hate me for what I say because it bolsters my beliefs. For you to be so vile toward me tells me that I am on the right path.
May the Lord bless you and I hope that someday you can welcomes into the family.
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
unholysavage wrote:Mikec2003, you're all right! I normally hang around the audio forums. I just bought my z24 this spring, so I haven't been here long. This is the first time I even bothered looking at the war forum, and I couldn't let this retard get away with forcing his 2nd century views on others who don't share them. My biggest p!ssoff with people like this Chris idiot is that they probably wouldn't even accept the sky is blue unless they read it in the bible. Why is it that some people refuse to think for themselves, and then consciously chose to force ideals and beliefs taken from a 2000+yr old storybook written by the ancient David Koreshes of the time? It just makes me shake my head in disgust...
The sky is blue for a reason......God made it that way. Call me all the names you want and hate me all you want; I still love you man.
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
unholysavage wrote:Mikec2003, you're all right! I normally hang around the audio forums. I just bought my z24 this spring, so I haven't been here long. This is the first time I even bothered looking at the war forum, and I couldn't let this retard get away with forcing his 2nd century views on others who don't share them. My biggest p!ssoff with people like this Chris idiot is that they probably wouldn't even accept the sky is blue unless they read it in the bible. Why is it that some people refuse to think for themselves, and then consciously chose to force ideals and beliefs taken from a 2000+yr old storybook written by the ancient David Koreshes of the time? It just makes me shake my head in disgust...
By the way, it is so much more rewarding talking about God to the unbelievers than it is dealing with race engines all day long as I do. That stuff bores me to tears.
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
how could this be rewarding to you??? your not gaining anything, certainly not making any new friends, what does this do for you? and no im not trying to flame you or anything, im just curious
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Chris Crossont wrote:
The sky is blue for a reason......God made it that way. Call me all the names you want and hate me all you want; I still love you man.
WOW, is this guy for real? This must be some sort of funny joke, because no educated person would think that way. Just for fun I'll go with your god theory about why the sky is blue. Why would he make it blue? Blue is stereotypically a pretty depressing color, so why not green or a nice yellow? Or how about nice rainbows everywhere so that people can look up and it makes them smile? Maybe he got sidetracked when he "created" the dinosaurs 150 million years ago...WOOPS, I mean in 4004BC. Hmm, in 4004BC weren't the Mesopotamians in their prime (not to mention advanced civilizations in Europe and India)? Interesting - dinosaur remains aren't found with any of those remains. Funny discrepancy, wouldn't you say? Lemme guess, you probably don't accept that humans are primates (ie: we evolved from 'apes' and are still evolving), and that the Earth ISN'T at the centre of the universe either? What happens if your 'god' turns out to be a woman, or a tree? Are you willing to accept those possibilities?
For anybody out there willing to accept a scientific explanation to why the sky is blue, it can be found in layman's terms at this site:
http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html
I tried to find as simple an explanation as I could because it's very obvious that you've never taken a science class. You'll probably tell me that god controls the gas particles and light beams - if so, its priorities are certainly in the wrong place.
"WHY IS THE SKY BLUE?
The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. As light moves through the atmosphere, most of the longer wavelengths pass straight through. Little of the red, orange and yellow light is affected by the air.
However, much of the shorter wavelength light is absorbed by the gas molecules. The absorbed blue light is then radiated in different directions. It gets scattered all around the sky. Whichever direction you look, some of this scattered blue light reaches you. Since you see the blue light from everywhere overhead, the sky looks blue."
Chris Crossont wrote:
By the way, it is so much more rewarding talking about God to the unbelievers than it is dealing with race engines all day long as I do. That stuff bores me to tears.
If you dislike cars so much, why the hell are you working with them? Better yet, why on earth are you on a car enthusiast website trying to peddle your religious beliefs? There have to be 1000s of religious websites where you can talk to people all day trying to find reasons to justify your beliefs and give your lives meaning. Try sticking to those websites, and leave the rest of us 'unbelievers/satanists/devil worshippers' to our very happy, quite fulfilled lives.
It's not even that fun arguing with you because the only response I'll ever get from you is that "god made it so". You sir are probably the most narrowminded, ignorant person I've ever even spoken to. By all means, keep your beliefs, but do me a favour and take some college science courses and expand your mind.
Everyone knows why the sky is blue...
If it were green, we'd never know where to stop cutting the grass.. DUH.
Chris: you sound as bent as most religious zealots. Jesus didn't judge or condemn, and neither should you.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Gam, that's a pretty good theory
Wow Chris, you're a posting machine! I can't believe I totally missed your other posts until now.
Any anthropologist (or remotely intelligent person) will admit that the aboriginals were here long before us white jerks crossed the pond. Every year brings new findings and evidence that people crossed the land bridge that is now the Bering Strait 8000 years ago (or likely much earlier), and that some people may have floated over on rafts from Asia MUCH earlier.
As for us never being friends, give your head a shake; just because you try and push your beliefs on others, that's not true. Your beliefs are fine - I just don't share any of them. While I may not agree with your beliefs, what I truly dislike (and will not put up with) is when people I don't know (like you) try to unconditionally push their ideals upon me. When somebody tells me that I have no choice but believe in a god or I'm a devil worshipper or satanist I get rather ticked (I don't believe in any god (or the idea behind 'religion'), so why would I be something I don't believe in?). If you could ever keep the "believe in god or you're not human" crap to yourself, I might still consider being your friend.
I have to say one last thing on the subject of persecution that you brought up, Chris. The only 3 things on the planet that I persecute are stupidity, bigotry and ignorance (which you seem to have more of than anybody else). Remember the Jewish people? The religion of Judaism was founded more than a millenium before Christianity (but you already knew that), and those people are the poster-people of persecution (anybody remember the Holocaust of only 65 years ago?). Persecution doesn't begin or end the the individual they call Jesus - it's prevalent everywhere today in the form of racism and the persecution of gay people, just to name two. Pull your head out of your @ss and open up your eyes.
mikec2003 wrote:how could this be rewarding to you??? your not gaining anything, certainly not making any new friends, what does this do for you? and no im not trying to flame you or anything, im just curious
I am more than happy to answer that for you. If I were to speak to 1,000,000 people in my lifetime and 999,999 hated me for what I had to say but just one came to Christ because I led him/her there, then it is all worth it. Personal gain means nothing to me and if people want to hate me just for spreading the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ then I count that as joy. Jesus was (and still is) hated by most of the world and to be even remotely in that category is an honor above all other honors.
Take care Mike!
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
unholysavage wrote:Chris Crossont wrote:
The sky is blue for a reason......God made it that way. Call me all the names you want and hate me all you want; I still love you man.
WOW, is this guy for real? This must be some sort of funny joke, because no educated person would think that way. Just for fun I'll go with your god theory about why the sky is blue. Why would he make it blue? Blue is stereotypically a pretty depressing color, so why not green or a nice yellow? Or how about nice rainbows everywhere so that people can look up and it makes them smile? Maybe he got sidetracked when he "created" the dinosaurs 150 million years ago...WOOPS, I mean in 4004BC. Hmm, in 4004BC weren't the Mesopotamians in their prime (not to mention advanced civilizations in Europe and India)? Interesting - dinosaur remains aren't found with any of those remains. Funny discrepancy, wouldn't you say? Lemme guess, you probably don't accept that humans are primates (ie: we evolved from 'apes' and are still evolving), and that the Earth ISN'T at the centre of the universe either? What happens if your 'god' turns out to be a woman, or a tree? Are you willing to accept those possibilities?
For anybody out there willing to accept a scientific explanation to why the sky is blue, it can be found in layman's terms at this site:
http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html
I tried to find as simple an explanation as I could because it's very obvious that you've never taken a science class. You'll probably tell me that god controls the gas particles and light beams - if so, its priorities are certainly in the wrong place.
"WHY IS THE SKY BLUE?
The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. As light moves through the atmosphere, most of the longer wavelengths pass straight through. Little of the red, orange and yellow light is affected by the air.
However, much of the shorter wavelength light is absorbed by the gas molecules. The absorbed blue light is then radiated in different directions. It gets scattered all around the sky. Whichever direction you look, some of this scattered blue light reaches you. Since you see the blue light from everywhere overhead, the sky looks blue."
Chris Crossont wrote:
By the way, it is so much more rewarding talking about God to the unbelievers than it is dealing with race engines all day long as I do. That stuff bores me to tears.
If you dislike cars so much, why the hell are you working with them? Better yet, why on earth are you on a car enthusiast website trying to peddle your religious beliefs? There have to be 1000s of religious websites where you can talk to people all day trying to find reasons to justify your beliefs and give your lives meaning. Try sticking to those websites, and leave the rest of us 'unbelievers/satanists/devil worshippers' to our very happy, quite fulfilled lives.
It's not even that fun arguing with you because the only response I'll ever get from you is that "god made it so". You sir are probably the most narrowminded, ignorant person I've ever even spoken to. By all means, keep your beliefs, but do me a favour and take some college science courses and expand your mind.
You are correct in your assumption that I know that we (humans) did not evolve (that religion of evolution takes way more faith to believe in than I have) from monkeys.
I do not dislike cars. I dislike what they can be to some people. I have seen cars as gods or idols to people in my years in this business and it pains me greatly. Cars are what I know best and it is what I do. However, being in the racing industry is my way of earning a living so I can pay for my house, feed my family and do God's work that He has for me. I would not care if God had made me a garbage man; I would strive to do that work in His glory and honor just as I do my current job.
By the way, I was narrow minded and relied on my education up until December 21, 1998. My eyes were opened, my ears heard for the first time and I was filled with the Holy Spirit; these things are far greater than anything a college professor ever gave me.
Hope that helps. Take care and have a great day!
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Everyone knows why the sky is blue...
If it were green, we'd never know where to stop cutting the grass.. DUH.
Chris: you sound as bent as most religious zealots. Jesus didn't judge or condemn, and neither should you.
I did not know that I was judging or condemning. I guess when my mother told me not to touch that pot of boiling water when I was a toddler was judging and condemning.
By the way, I am far from religious. Man made religions send more people to hell than anything else.
That grass cutting joke was funny. It brightened my morning.
Take care and have a great day!
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
Chris Crossont wrote:mikec2003 wrote:how could this be rewarding to you??? your not gaining anything, certainly not making any new friends, what does this do for you? and no im not trying to flame you or anything, im just curious
I am more than happy to answer that for you. If I were to speak to 1,000,000 people in my lifetime and 999,999 hated me for what I had to say but just one came to Christ because I led him/her there, then it is all worth it. Personal gain means nothing to me and if people want to hate me just for spreading the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ then I count that as joy. Jesus was (and still is) hated by most of the world and to be even remotely in that category is an honor above all other honors.
Take care Mike!
hmm......well, whatever makes you happy i guess......at least here if people don't want to listen they just don't have to respond to your posts.....its the door to door thing that always pisses me off(not saying you do that, just a statement)
and i think your right, about Jesus being the most hated person in the world
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Quote:
As far as the Catholic church being the "original" church, how can that be when it was created over 200 years after the "real" church was started by Christ Himself. I have to disagree with your point about sticking to the doctrine of the word of God because it is like a night and day difference. I am not going to argue the point and I just suggest that you read the bible and see if what the Catholic church teaches is even close. I contend that it is not and that is why during the dark ages the Catholic church made it illegal to even read the bible.
Your "Christ" didn't start christianity, his followers did after he died. And for the record, I don't go around trying to convince you that I'm right and you're going to burn in shalla (made up land) for not believing what I do.
Quote:
You are correct in your assumption that I know that we (humans) did not evolve (that religion of evolution takes way more faith to believe in than I have) from monkeys.
Religion of evolution...never heard of it, I'll look into it.
Quote:
By the way, I was narrow minded and relied on my education up until December 21, 1998. My eyes were opened, my ears heard for the first time and I was filled with the Holy Spirit; these things are far greater than anything a college professor ever gave me.
Good for you. I'm glad somebody found something to make themselves happy. I find happiness in my g/f and some people find happiness in working on their car. You all can have a cookie but I only have a few so you better hurry up and grab them. Seriously, if you're happy then fine. Church didn't make me happy and not being able to question things because everything was clear cut black and white really got on my nerves.
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unholysavage wrote:Gam, that's a pretty good theory
Wow Chris, you're a posting machine! I can't believe I totally missed your other posts until now.
Any anthropologist (or remotely intelligent person) will admit that the aboriginals were here long before us white jerks crossed the pond. Every year brings new findings and evidence that people crossed the land bridge that is now the Bering Strait 8000 years ago (or likely much earlier), and that some people may have floated over on rafts from Asia MUCH earlier.
As for us never being friends, give your head a shake; just because you try and push your beliefs on others, that's not true. Your beliefs are fine - I just don't share any of them. While I may not agree with your beliefs, what I truly dislike (and will not put up with) is when people I don't know (like you) try to unconditionally push their ideals upon me. When somebody tells me that I have no choice but believe in a god or I'm a devil worshipper or satanist I get rather ticked (I don't believe in any god (or the idea behind 'religion'), so why would I be something I don't believe in?). If you could ever keep the "believe in god or you're not human" crap to yourself, I might still consider being your friend.
I have to say one last thing on the subject of persecution that you brought up, Chris. The only 3 things on the planet that I persecute are stupidity, bigotry and ignorance (which you seem to have more of than anybody else). Remember the Jewish people? The religion of Judaism was founded more than a millenium before Christianity (but you already knew that), and those people are the poster-people of persecution (anybody remember the Holocaust of only 65 years ago?). Persecution doesn't begin or end the the individual they call Jesus - it's prevalent everywhere today in the form of racism and the persecution of gay people, just to name two. Pull your head out of your @ss and open up your eyes.
Thanks for the compliment! I do post whenever I can; usually whenever the phone is not ringing or if I do not have a customer. Those are rare occasions.
Take care and I enjoy hearing from you.
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
mikec2003 wrote:Chris Crossont wrote:mikec2003 wrote:how could this be rewarding to you??? your not gaining anything, certainly not making any new friends, what does this do for you? and no im not trying to flame you or anything, im just curious
I am more than happy to answer that for you. If I were to speak to 1,000,000 people in my lifetime and 999,999 hated me for what I had to say but just one came to Christ because I led him/her there, then it is all worth it. Personal gain means nothing to me and if people want to hate me just for spreading the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ then I count that as joy. Jesus was (and still is) hated by most of the world and to be even remotely in that category is an honor above all other honors.
Take care Mike!
hmm......well, whatever makes you happy i guess......at least here if people don't want to listen they just don't have to respond to your posts.....its the door to door thing that always pisses me off(not saying you do that, just a statement)
and i think your right, about Jesus being the most hated person in the world
I wish I had the time for door knocking and soul winning night. Unfortunately, I get stuck here at the shop most week nights and I have never been able to make it. I really respect the people that do that because more often than not, they get the door slammed in their face and/or receives curses and swearings. It is a very hard job but it must be done.
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
James Larsen wrote:Quote:
As far as the Catholic church being the "original" church, how can that be when it was created over 200 years after the "real" church was started by Christ Himself. I have to disagree with your point about sticking to the doctrine of the word of God because it is like a night and day difference. I am not going to argue the point and I just suggest that you read the bible and see if what the Catholic church teaches is even close. I contend that it is not and that is why during the dark ages the Catholic church made it illegal to even read the bible.
Your "Christ" didn't start christianity, his followers did after he died. And for the record, I don't go around trying to convince you that I'm right and you're going to burn in shalla (made up land) for not believing what I do.
Quote:
You are correct in your assumption that I know that we (humans) did not evolve (that religion of evolution takes way more faith to believe in than I have) from monkeys.
Religion of evolution...never heard of it, I'll look into it.
Quote:
By the way, I was narrow minded and relied on my education up until December 21, 1998. My eyes were opened, my ears heard for the first time and I was filled with the Holy Spirit; these things are far greater than anything a college professor ever gave me.
Good for you. I'm glad somebody found something to make themselves happy. I find happiness in my g/f and some people find happiness in working on their car. You all can have a cookie but I only have a few so you better hurry up and grab them. Seriously, if you're happy then fine. Church didn't make me happy and not being able to question things because everything was clear cut black and white really got on my nerves.
James, thanks for the kind words. Maybe you will find a bible believing church that feeds you the word of God that you did not get in your previous church(s).
Take care and have a great day!
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
For one thing, the 'religion of evolution' idea was 'created' by the church to convenienty fudge its ideals and beliefs to conform to a scientifically sound theory that damaged the bible's credibility. The theory of evolution is not a religion or even a remotely religious idea - it's a scientific (biological) phenomenon that has likely existed ever since the first primitive life occurred 3.8-4.1 billion years ago on earth (and which likely also occurs on millions of other planets in the universe). Basically, the formation of the religion of evolution is the church going "if we can't beat them, join them".
I particularly love your statement that you KNOW that humans didn't evolve from 'apes'. PLEASE enlighten me as to how you obtained this ABSOLUTE fact. Is it simply because the man-made story of Adam and Eve in the bible? Need I remind you that that story was written by somebody long ago who was neither Adam, nor Eve (and certainly not any god), and who most certainly did not communicate with any of these characters? If you had said 'believe' in that sentence, that would have been OK, but to say that you KNOW completely IGNORES the enormous amount of scientific evidence (that you can hold in your very own hands and see for yourself) that demonstrates the evolution of humans from primates (including the fossil remains of the 'Taung child' and 'Lucy' amongst many others). Humans and chimpanzees have been scientifically shown to share 95% of the same DNA (more proof they are related) - can you ignore that as well? Look at George W. Bush - if that guy isn't a chimp that learned english then I paid too much for my education. Most of the religious people I know accept these theories, and rather than rejecting them they instead warped/reinterpreted the bible in a futile effort to reaffirm their beliefs (which is exactly why your 'religion of evolution' came about).
That is something I cannot understand with people like you, Chris. You find it perfectly OK to tell others that they have absolutely no choice but to believe your quite proof-less beliefs, but blatantly ignore tangible evidence that contradicts the 'truth' as told by an obsolete book that contains more errors and lies than most fiction novels. You mentioned that you were narrowminded and relied on your education until 1998. The whole purpose of post-secondary education is to teach people how to think for themselves (and not to memorize facts etc.). From what I have read, it is quite obvious that education failed you somehow. You're not even narrow-minded anymore, you've basically closed your mind completely to anything that might alter your beliefs. BTW, you believe in a deity, so by definition you ARE religious.
I admire your conviction, but question your rationale behind your comments. I look forward to hearing your response to this.
If you are referring to the idea of "Created Evolution" then you are off base. The idea first surfaced with the writing of St. Athanasius and was expanded on by St. Thamas Aquinas about 1700 years ago. Way, way before Darwin. Official church doctrine as laid out by the "father of the church" never excluded some form of evolution, in fact it proposed the God "planted the seeds of life" and did not necessarily create life in the form that we see it in. This is far from a new idea brought about to restore credibility to the church.
PAX
My argument was that humanity evolved from primates, and that Chris could NOT say that he KNEW they didn't without ignoring tangible scientific evidence that showed the contrary. St. Thomas Aquinas was more scientist than religious figurehead (meaning he used his own eyes and brain to come up with his ideas), which makes me wonder how he managed to escape being burned at the stake back in those times... Oh, btw St. Thomas Aquinas was not alive 1700 years ago, he died on 7 March, 1274.
Lastly, I did not say anywhere that evolution itself cannot be explained through the bible. Sure, the theory of evolution contradicts several things withing the bible (like Adam and Eve for one), but it also reinforces others. I'm quite sure that intelligent theologians could find and reinterpret passages in the bible to conform to just about any scientific theory, but that depends on just how abstract they want to take things. Modern day lawyers can reinterpret any law they wish to conform to whatever serves their purpose, and theologians can do the same thing with the bible. My main problem with extraordinarily religious people isn't with their beliefs (even though I don't share them), but with their idea that the so-called 'word of god' as written in the bible is the be-all and end-all of everything, and that they take those readings as literal. You have to admit that today's society is not even comparable to those of 2000-3000 years ago. Science has advanced light-years in the past century. Even if its findings contradict the bible (or show parts of it to be completely false), you should keep your mind open to other possibilities that aren't explainable through the not-so 'all-knowing' bible.
The 1700 years ago was referring to St. Athanasius who died somewhere around 300AD (sat on the council of Nicea) and was the first to suggest the idea that even though God created everything we see he did not necessarily create it as we see it. He suggested that God put a process in motion that continues to this day in his role as "Prime Mover". St. Thomas was very much a religious scholar, he happened to have a more anylitical mind and is often called a scientist, yes, but he was made a Saint because of his contribution to the church not his scientific knowledge. Do not discount his role in the formation of church dogma, he was instrumental in that area..
At any rate, the idea is not a new one and the beginning of the idea of "Created Evolution" was introduced about 1700 years ago by St. Athanasius.
Perhaps "The Religion of Evolution" was referring to the ways people approach the subject.. With little knowledge and many assumptions
Evolution is far from a complete theory and much of it is impossible to prove and yet people who support the theory (for the most part) are at least as dogmatic and umoving in their ideas as those who insist that God created everything we see, as we see it and support a young Earth theory. Both are wrong in their approach and should be open to ideas from either camp.
Personally I don't see why it cannot be as Athanasius proposed in that God put certain processes here and created through evolution. Did man come from ape? don't know, kinda doubt it, but we sure are close to ape, there's no denying that. Is it possible, absolutely, is it probable, absolutely not. Randome mutation is just not a good enough answer.. How about purposefull evolution though? That would make a lot more sense to me.
PAX
Random mutation and purposeful mutation aren't mutually excklusive, hahaha.
If youfigure that only so many given random mutations can actually survive, much less make it a "better attumed to it's environment" specie, you have to think that both the random and the purposeful theories can coexist until one is proven...
After all, God may or may not be directing the mutation, but he can sure as hell direct the enviromental changes that would favor one strain over another.
The beauty of that is, whether or not you believe in god, the end result is the same--
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