Right...my whole point was simply put, if you don't follow that train of thought, you're eventually going to become screwed. After all, if you're a company that hires someone in a customer relations position on the cheap to people that can't speak english, you'll find you lose your client-base.
Again, it's less of "speak english or der the hell out", after all, i'm the first one that tells people to get off of my planet before i get out iof their country, and more of a, "we will not bend over backwards to accomodate you--if you cannot speak on a level that is required of you for your area/job/whatever, then it sucks to be you. Lear to speak it or end up being screwed.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
learning english isnt as easy as it seems... it's prolly one of the hardest to learn... i've never heard anybody say that just cuz u cant speak english u should leave, not around here anyway... but then again i dont live in america... and i thank god for that...
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Now Blazing: Black Domina
captaincarnage wrote:learning english isnt as easy as it seems... it's prolly one of the hardest to learn... i've never heard anybody say that just cuz u cant speak english u should leave, not around here anyway... but then again i dont live in america... and i thank god for that...
Just curious, where you from?
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No, they shouldn't have to leave, but, the place where they live does not have to bend over backwards to accomodate them, either.
you basically have a choice, you adapt to your locale, or you have a hard time getting along there and possibly die out. simple. Or you can move if you don't like it.
Hence, if you move to, say, a predominantly Tagalog-speaking area, either you try to learn Tagalog, or you're going to have a hell of a time--no matter how hard it is to learn it.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
as much as i like rodimus (he helped me out with my s/c questions), i'm entirely offended and completely disagree. and just to back up captaincarnage - english is one of the most difficult languages to learn!! how many different ways can you have an 'f' sound (ph, gh, f, ff, etc.)? and for those of you who ask 'how do i know' - i was born in poland and had to learn english. believe me, its not easy to communicate with others when everything around you is not what you're used to (culture, language, traditions, people, differences, even music). and it sure as hell doesn't make it easier when there are so many people out there that believe that you either speak the english language or leave the country. wtf!? people like that don't make it any easier for those that have legitimate reasons for coming here and starting an entirely NEW LIFE. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE LUXURY OF LEARNING ENGLISH BEFORE COMING HERE... i know i didn't. speaking from personal experience, sometimes strangers are the only people that are around you. and for some of them its their warm and understanding hearts that say 'hello' (in other words: 'you don't speak english? get the f**k out of the country.'). if it really was that way in this country where if you didn't speak english then you couldn't be here, then i would have never come here. some of you may say 'so you would have never come here, so what.' i guess thats you're problem..if you knew me you'd see how much i have done, what i have to offer, and how much potential i have. if it really was that way, you'd see this country would have missed out on something good. and that isn't just me - its alot of immigrants that live here.
and since we're on the topic and its a bit of a pet peeve of mine - americans should stop thinking that if they talk really slow and really loud to an immigrant then they will automatically understand them. WTF is up that, they're not gonna understand you no matter how slow or loud you speak!
phew - i hope that rant made sense
Blown.
oh, and i forgot to add, on many occassions, this country is the only place on earth where people don't have to die in the worst poverty imaginable. and for others (speaking personally) its also a place on earth where they won't be shot to death for no reason. so F*CK not speaking english, if you have such a problem with it try and learn another language. many of the immigrants that are here already did their part by starting a completely NEW LIFE.
Blown.
Rodimus Prime wrote:I am so sick and tired of @!#$ people that cannot speak the language of this country, you live here, its your responsiblity to know it, you shouldnt be allowed in to live as a resident unless you know it, this is one issue im far to the right on. Call it conservative whatever. There is far too much ease on this issue. And most of all what irritates me is when these people that dont speak it get mad at you because they dont know how to communicate effectively
Ummmmm.......are you going to reply to a topic you started? Just wanna know your imput now that there are 4 pages?
Alex
Almost makes sense...
I have no problems with people coming here from other countries and not natively speaking the language (my g/f is Slovak, but granted, her english is better than most american's i know), BUT, if you move to an area where they predominantly speak a language, can oy really expect hundreds to thoussands of people to change their lives to accomodate one person?
Thus, i have no problems with people wanting to up and move and make a new life for themselves, but you have to be prepared to accept that if you can't communicate in any form, then you either learn how to, or you risk the lack of employment and means to survive.
It's like if i ever visited Poland (likely, considering my g/f is Slovak), i'd make sure i at least had a very rudimentary grasp of some of the common words, and a phrasebook so i can at least attempt to communicate. The only thing i'd have to make sure is that the phrase book was not written out like the one in Monty python--i don't want to be ordering a coke and saying, "Drop your panties, Sir William, I cannot wait until lunchtime"
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
i have no need to reply, you live here speak the language, its your responsibility to effectively communicate if you expect to get a job or conduct business no matter how hard it is to learn, my view isnt any different if theres 10 pages
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
basically I think of it like this......when ur in ur own home you are free to speak any language u want to, but when u are out doing business in a public place such as buying something at wal-mart or brooks pharmacy, target, home depot, lowe's anywhere like that, then you should speak english.......it may not be the countries language but it is prodominant in this country most people speak english......you should at least know the damn language. There are some countries that offer classes right when you come into the country on how to speak the language.....they offer them, they hand flyers out in the airports.....I think America should do something like that.
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....i dunno. i sitll maintain that sure, people have different talents in different fields, and some learn more slowly than others, but learning a new, completely different foreign language is not impossible, no matter how different it is from your native tongue, particularly if you are completely immersed in it, living in the country of one predominant language. I am fluent in 3 languages, that are very, very different from each other, and i am gonna start taking a fourth. (in 2 days of learning it from a BOOK, never heard it spoken to me, other than one or two movies i saw when i was a child, ive effectivley learned how to say more than , umm, do you you speak english?). my father never spoke, read, learned, or understood a word of english until he came to the U.S. at age 30, a grown man, and now speaks english fluently, along with several other languages (though none of them were latin based, so no, he had no exposure to english). sure, maintain your identity, practice your own language around your native countrymen (and women), but dont get pissed if you cant keep a job or are having a diffiult time in a country where you cant communicate effectively b/c you havent practiced the language in which everything is advertised, written, and spoken. If you are trying, kudos, and i wish you luck, and ill be patient with you. if you are an immigrant that has been here 10 years, and NEVR TRIES TO SAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN ASKING IF I SPEAK YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE B/C YOU ARE TOO LAZY TO TRY TO LEARN, then yes, I find that intolerable. Particularly if you are in the "service" industry.
...don't hate!.. respect people that have talent, even if it is in something you don't like or understand.
i AGREE completely with the fact that in order to be a completely functional member of society in this country one must speak english. if i were in poland i would expect anyone who lived there to speak polish, or at least make an attempt to speak it. although not official, this country's language is english. (i disagree with rodimus' first post about this..but agree with his last..thats because they're two different things - the original issue was that if you can't speak english you shouldn't live here, no matter what the circumstances are). I think its Ignorant to say that if someone doesn't speak english then they shouldn't be allowed to live here.
also, i never said that learning another language is impossible. but knowing a language because you WANT to and because you HAVE to are Two Different Things. trust me, there is alot more unnerving pressure when you have to learn the language. and it doesn't stop there, one is compelled to learn customs, dialects, traditions, etc. it goes beyond the language barrier. i'm sure anyone who is an immigrant and a member of jbo will agree with me. its easy for anyone to say that they should learn to speak the language but when it comes down to it, ITS MORE THAN JUST THE LANGUAGE. i speak with the mindset of an immigrant and, therefore, i speak from the heart. and another point - who is to say that if you speak to an immigrant and they don't speak english that they're not attempting to learn?? and please don't say 'because they get fed up if they don't understand me.' They're humans - they're gonna get frustrated just like everyone else! they're frustrated that they can't communicate, not because YOU can't speak their native tongue. next time, think for a second because maybe they've gone through enough stress starting a new damn life and they still can't get things right with the language!!
i know two languages fluently, i'm learning a third, and will soon start learning a fourth. i also received straight A's in every class in my entire life, i was the valedictorian of my graduating class, i helped commemorate the opening of the rebuilt elementary school i used to attend, i participated in the 60th Anniversary of D-Day and gave a speech for the veterans in front of the city (so to speak). the list goes on. now tell me - because i didn't know the english language for 1 year - within that one year i would have already been told to leave if the country held the same views as many of the people on this thread? dare i compare immigrants if they were in that situation with people like albert einstein, who escaped from nazi germany because he was jewish? just because he was jewish he was ostracized and as a result germany lost a great man who changed history. this country is beginning to do a similar thing with the immigrants that reside in it. and dont' try and tell me that that is not a relevant comparison, because it parallels the situation very well. (for the record - No i'm not calling anyone a nazi or this country nazi germany).
and furthermore, in response to sam howe, being forbidden to speak a different language in public would be a blatant violation of freedom. which is the main reason why many people come here. like i said, alot of people didn't come here because it was a luxury.
to sum up - in resonse to the original posts - in my opinion they are ignorant. but i agree with those that say english should be known in order to become a productive member of society. and most of the above was a release of tension (i get worked up about it because its a very personal issue).
Blown.
Okay.. in the service industry, you oughtta speak the language of your customers. That's one of the "DUH!" statements...
However, with due respect Rodimus: Seems to me the original settlers from the mayflower didn't speak the language of the land, and that seemed to work out fine </sarcasm>
The USA has no defined national language. I'm sure that if you tried to go into some neighbourhoods in NYC (I'm probably going to get it wrong, but I'll take a stab at it) like jamaica queens, or the areas where Yiddish is spoken predominantly, you'll have a hard time getting along, same as in Louisiana (where Cajun French is king) Miami (cuban slang/spanish) Hawaii (Hawaiian) etc...
Cross-cultures makes a very nice mosaic.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Filip, you're talking about americans here--we have no culture. Literally. How else can you explain the continued populatiry of "Friends?"
Also, something i will point out. Speaking slower may not help, but sometimes enunciating helps--especially if you talk with a drawl, accent, or very fast and in somewhat slurred speech--at least repeat it once, a bit slower and enunciated, then, if that doesn't work, try charades.
Still, despite the multiculturality of the states, a phrasebook helps. At least that way they have SOMETHING to help--unless you're fluent.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
GAM, Keeper of the Light, i agree with both of you guys entirely. i just want to point out that sometimes those are the reasons why immigrants decide to reside here - in hopes that in such a diverse land there will be acceptance and understanding. the thread has evolved somewhat and we're now discussing the practical, 'in your face' aspects of speaking english, which is something i agree with.
true, anunciation may help, but i don't mean that. i mean full out speaking slower and louder and progressively getting frustrated if the person doesn't understand. it was in response to a post of how a non-english speaker would get frustrated with an english speaker who couldn't understand the other's language. i was merely stating how it can work both ways. but you're absolutely correct and i agree.
and i hope i did not offend rodimus, i have much respect for him. i was just put off by the original post that started this thread.
i often find it difficult to keep quiet when someone says 'speak english or leave.' firstly, i've seen many people that got along just fine in this country without knowing english. secondly, one should know english if they want to be a productive member of society here. thirdly, i often find that people are one-sided on this issue. both sides say the other should learn another language (immigrants and natives). i think native speakers should make a concerted effort to educate themselves with cutlures they come into contact with (and same goes for immigrants). but if they don't then they should stop b*tch*ng about how the other person doesn't know english (or spanish, german, polish, laotian, etc.). if they don't care about knowledge and being less ignorant then why should the other side? just something to think about. anyone agree?
Blown.
Filip (The Polish Kid) wrote:GAM, Keeper of the Light, i agree with both of you guys entirely. i just want to point out that sometimes those are the reasons why immigrants decide to reside here - in hopes that in such a diverse land there will be acceptance and understanding. the thread has evolved somewhat and we're now discussing the practical, 'in your face' aspects of speaking english, which is something i agree with.
true, anunciation may help, but i don't mean that. i mean full out speaking slower and louder and progressively getting frustrated if the person doesn't understand. it was in response to a post of how a non-english speaker would get frustrated with an english speaker who couldn't understand the other's language. i was merely stating how it can work both ways. but you're absolutely correct and i agree.
and i hope i did not offend rodimus, i have much respect for him. i was just put off by the original post that started this thread.
i often find it difficult to keep quiet when someone says 'speak english or leave.' firstly, i've seen many people that got along just fine in this country without knowing english. secondly, one should know english if they want to be a productive member of society here. thirdly, i often find that people are one-sided on this issue. both sides say the other should learn another language (immigrants and natives). i think native speakers should make a concerted effort to educate themselves with cutlures they come into contact with (and same goes for immigrants). but if they don't then they should stop b*tch*ng about how the other person doesn't know english (or spanish, german, polish, laotian, etc.). if they don't care about knowledge and being less ignorant then why should the other side? just something to think about. anyone agree?
Just in case my posts were misunderstood (don't know if any of your posts referred to me with others)... I have no problems with anyone comming into this country, LEGALLY, and at least TRY to learn English, or put forth an effort to do so. I know it can't be the easiest to learn, but all I ask of the people that do immigrate here to at least put forth an effort to learn English. People who choose to come here, should adapt (at least publicly) to us... we should not have to adapt to every immigrant that comes here. That would be like me going to your native Poland, and demanding everyone learn English and print things in English so that I can understand them so I don't have to learn Polish. That would be disrespectful wouldn't it?
If a person is elderly, I can understand them having an enormous difficulty in trying to learn English. If I can see a person is trying, I'll try to help in any way I can, and am very patient.
I however do not have patience for those who come here, have lived here for years, and don't even try or can't even speak a lick of English. There's no excuse for that. If I moved to Poland, China, Germany, France wherever... I would do my darndest to adapt to the culture I'm in and learn the language most commonly spoken.
I do however agree, that Americans should learn some things about other cultures out there. In my school, in my 6th grade year, we had ancient history, 7th grade was a half a year of world cultures. Every other year was American history. While American history is important... we should dedicate more time to at least learning some things about other cultures. Say... the student has a choice from a few different cultures to learn about, or language to learn... but they MUST pick something.
I took 3 years of Spanish, in which I had to also not only learn the language, but about different Spanish cultures as well (mostly Central and South American). My Spanish is quite rusty... but I'd like to take up Chinese... that would be a nice challenge. Anywho', a lot of our schools keep us in the dark about the rest of the world, which is partly why I think Americans in general are so "stuck up".
However also... those who wish to come here and start over, should come here legally, and adapt to American life... and not expect us to adapt to them. And... there should be classes offered to people who come here legally to learn the language and such.
Like I said... if you were still in Poland, and I came there to live... and demanded you speak English and conform to me because I was there... you'd be offended right?
Fallen, we see eye to eye on this as well. i completely agree with you. i was hoping i'd get across the point you just made in my previous post but i guess i was too involved in a stream of consciousness. i think that if an immigrant arrives in the United States, or any country for that matter, they should make a concerted effort to learn and understand, and as they do that, I think the native 'dwellers' (its getting late and i'm running out of synonyms, haha) should learn what the immigrants bring, what made made them come to that country, etc. i, too, have a hard time respecting those immigrants who feel that america is a free country that caters to them. in fact, those immigrants make me angry because often times, the actions of one person are taken for an entire group. and i, too, have a problem with illegal immigration - to an extent. sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that necessitate such actions. but for the most part, it is something that can be avoided.
Blown.
Yo soy un immigrante de mejico'. No hablo mucho ingles porque tu es stupido. no quiero cambio por esta pisa, chingado. El palabra que yo conosco en ingles esta
GGGooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
cuando Mejico tiene un gol cuando mejico juega futbol. Tiene un pito pequeno.
Tu comprendes, si o no.
Smile, Jesus loves you!!!!! <><
Manchild-ProPain, out now, Sphereofhiphop.com
^^^^ no creo que eres imigrante de Mexico, porque hablarias mejor el castellano, primo.
Y no quiero ver tu pito.
...don't hate!.. respect people that have talent, even if it is in something you don't like or understand.
Whoa... If that at all equates to what I think it does in french, I think it'd be pretty Narsty either way
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Why i say at least pick up a phrasebook. For one, they aren't that expensive, and two, at least then, you can point out the line you want to say to someone, and they can read it. Hell, i know the military issues them to people--at least they did in 'nam (my dad told me so, however, he knew how to speak vietnamese).
Still, it is difficult because you not only have to learn the core language, but differentiate the dialects. My g/f learned british english--lucky for me, i'm a huge fan of Red Dwarf, Monty Python, and BOFH, so i'm up on british dialects. Because she speaks english with me most often, she picked up my syntax and intonation. She also got rid of that nasty "zed" business.
As for me, in my quest to learn slovak, It is difficult, and I find that because of the way the slavic languages are, i end up saying something, or writing something in a tottaly different language--luckily, she's patient enough with me
. For instance, never hearing polish in my life, i found out that "Dzakujem" is "Thank you" in Polish (as opposed to "D'akujem" in Slovak--hey, i spelled it like it's pronounced). At least, though i have pronunciation down (it helps that i can mimic a lot of accents), and thus, a phrasebook will help a lot.
besdies, it will most likely prevent me from accidentally saying to the Prime Minister, "Could you send for the hall porter, there appears to be a frog in my bidet"
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Rodimus Prime wrote:I am so sick and tired of @!#$ people that cannot speak the language of this country, you live here, its your responsiblity to know it, you shouldnt be allowed in to live as a resident unless you know it, this is one issue im far to the right on. Call it conservative whatever. There is far too much ease on this issue. And most of all what irritates me is when these people that dont speak it get mad at you because they dont know how to communicate effectively
Agree 1000000000000000% i just argued with my fellow employees at work on this. I can't stand people who can't speak our language and live here. If i were to move to ANY OTHER country i would make sure i knew it.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
So you would learn the language before you moved there?
