The lady in Cali. that threw her kids....... - Page 4 - Politics and War Forum

Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:26 PM on j-body.org
/\ /\ /\ Ok you can stay I like you. NO not like that!




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.




Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:07 PM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:/\ /\ /\ Ok you can stay I like you. NO not like that!


Thanks



Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:32 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

People are lazy, stupid, and cannot see past the end of their nose unless it directly impacts their personal well being or comfort level. Most people don't give a damn about anyone else not immediately in their circle of family or friends, and even then, most will only do something to avert an impending incident if it directly involves them or their children, or their money. People as a whole are a futile and fetid abberration of nature that have not been able to socially develop or accept, protect and care for those that are not aligned to the societal norm, and those that don't conform are on the whole marginalised so that they don't get in other people's happy little oblivious faces and perhaps inject a dose of gravity or *goodness* reality into their obtuse and ignorant little lives. When people fail to act on a well-grounded threat, they end up being all astonished and flabbergasted and gape-mouthed at the horror of a happening that in all probability, someone knew about and had the propensity to do something about, but sat idly by because it might take a moadicum of effort to effect a small change in another person's life for the better



Exactly. How many people mention to someone that their going to commit suicide, and the person they mention it to just ignores it.


1997 Sunfire
WAI
pacesetter header
Underdrive pulley = STILL SLOW.
50 shot of NX
Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:06 PM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:Roofy, I'm not saying that exicuting her should be off the table so to speak and while I agree with you 100% about the vics it MAY not have been her fault. If she is proven compitant to stand trail and then shes found guilty sure fri her ass. And I said the same thing about re-habing her. She doesn't need to see daylight again even if found to be nutz. But unfortunatly I have to side with Gam and Glace to an extent. If shes nutz you can't realy try her as she probly would have no clue as to whats going on. Thats why a nice padded cell is a good out.


How can it not be her fault??? Wether she is mentally ill or not, she killed her kids. That's noone's fault but her own. Being mentally ill doesn't change that her kids are dead. NO amount of rehab can ever change the fact that she's a murderer, and NO amount of rehab can guarantee that she will never kill again, no matter how supervised she may be in society. What if she's reintroduced into society and the meds stop working??? (It's been known to happen) Or what if she stops voluntarily taking them again???

Also (and this is my biggest point) what purpose does it serve to lock her up for the rest of her life??? She would be of no benefit to society, and a waste of tax dollars that could go to something more productive, like schools or environmental causes. On average, it costs almost $22,000 a year to house and feed a prisoner. If a person were to remain in jail until death, say 60 years that would be around $1,320,000. I'd rather see a 50 cent bullet to the head, and keep my money that I worked for.




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Friday, October 28, 2005 4:14 AM on j-body.org
Roofy wrote:OK let me chime in on this...

First off, this lady killed her 3 kids. That is a fact, noone is denying that.

Secondly, she claims to have a mental illness. While that is highly probable, it cannot be concretely proven. Many mental illnesses can be imitated, and there is no real way of telling wether she has one or not.


Well, reading the story, and having a rudimentary understanding of anti-psychotic drugs, I think it's safe to say that she did have a very serious mental illness that had been undergoing treatment with Haldol (it was in the link that was provided at any rate). Haldol treatment can be abruptly stopped with no adverse effects except that the drug's therapeutic effects wane (also, link provided). She probably went off Haldol under medical advice, and was to begin treatment of another orally administered drug.... I'm only speculating though.

Quote:

Third, our priorities and legal system are screwed up. Bigtime. We will kill a person deemed competent for killing another. Yet if someone is deemed incompetent, they get a free meal ticket for the rest of their life, often with ammenities and luxuries most people cannot afford. Wether the person was competent or not, the same crime should get the same punishment.


The difference, in 2 words is Mens Rhea. I've posted a link about it as well. Its part of the reason we're not Jailling/Executing mentally ill or retarded people left and right (well, except in TX...) for simple crimes or violent crimes. They get help because they either don't know any better or can't form the cohesive thought process to either start or stop what they're doing.

Quote:

You can say that that person wasn't in their right mind, and shouldn't be responsible for their actions, but then who is responsible??? Something of this magnitude cannot be ignored and glossed over. You can say that it is unfair to the killer to be punished if they have a mental illness, because they weren't aware of their situation. But isn't it unfair to the families of the victims if the killer is not duly punished???


I'm not going to get into it, but vengeance is highly overrated. And in this case, her family wants her to get help. I can't state for certain, but were I involved, I'd rather ther person get treated for their illness if it were bona fide. If the murder was committed during an untreated course of the illness, the person committing the act isn't able to form the rational thought necessary to commit or stop their actions.

Again, I point @ Mens Rhea.

Quote:

Exactly what good does it do to lock these people up for the rest of their life??? You can say rehabilitation and reintroduction to society, but what is the point of that??? Someone above mentioned this lady being a nursing assistant, and that she can be allowed to work again with supervision. Excuse me, but that's @!#$ing stupid. Why should more work be placed upon others, simply to supervise another???


Okay, first, locking someone up because they have a mental illness is like locking somoene up because they were born with no legs. YES the comparison is viable... the person with the mental illness is disabled just as much as the other, it's just not visible under cursory inspection. You don't lock these people up for no reason. The woman in question had a mental illness that had been under treatment, and we didn't find out whether or not she was off the meds AMA, even if she was, I don't blame her.

As for the supervised work: You have a supervisor @ work... deal with it. I Should clarify that she needs supervised drug therapy if it works, or whatever the Dr. ordered. Besides, if it keeps her stable (and others, it's called a caseload) I think it's worth it.

Quote:

That becomes a liability, and a waste. Case in point, a sex offender has been "rehabilitated" and reintroduced back into society. Yet sex offenders are still restricted, required to report to PO's and aren't allowed a number of things. I don't disagree with this, yet murderers who have been "rehabilitated" can be reintroduced back into society. and nary a person around them is aware.


Your CIP isn't valid. Sex offenders know what they're doing is wrong, they just don't care. Mentally ill don't know. They're supervised just as much anyhow, and usually have to return to a group home in the evening.

Quote:

People have become too soft nowadays. My solution to the problem??? Tie a 200lb weight around her waist, and throw her into the same pond, lake, whatever that she killed her kids in. Is it harsh??? Yes. Is it unusual??? Yes. Is it cruel??? Not when you see how her kids died. Will she suffer??? Yes, but why should her death be any easier than her kids' were???


People aren't "soft," it's called enlightened. This kind of thinking belongs in the middle ages.

It's all academic until it's you that has to deal with mental illness and the fallout.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Friday, October 28, 2005 4:22 AM on j-body.org
the reason we can't just go jailing the crazy people like her is because its not jail, its a correction facility, you can't correct a problem if the person doesn't even understand what planet theyre on


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Friday, October 28, 2005 5:02 AM on j-body.org
Roofy, I think your taking me the wrong way. Hey I'm all for a good old fashioned lynching every now and again. Theres nothing wrong with pichforks and torches they can realy pump you up! And everyone should know how to tie a noose cause you never know when you may need to. But what would killing someone who has no clue as to whats going on do? Ifs shes found compitent then hell yes she should fry. But if she doesn't know what way is up then what? Its horrible she killed her kids I'm certainly not debateing that at all neither is anyone here all we're saying is if shes nutz
what do we do with her. I don't want her sucking up tax money either and I SO don't think she should ever see day light again. But to just kill her would be wrong too. She has no clue as to what she did. Shes sick and needs to be at least locked away so she can't hurt anyone else includeing herself. And she should be banned from being allowed to reproduce.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Friday, October 28, 2005 6:40 AM on j-body.org
Jack: She's going to be doing that anyhow. At least if she's being looked after properly, she can return the favour.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Friday, October 28, 2005 7:24 AM on j-body.org
Return what favor? the reproducing part? Well only if shes cute.





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Friday, October 28, 2005 10:03 AM on j-body.org
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:People aren't "soft," it's called enlightened. This kind of thinking belongs in the middle ages.

It's all academic until it's you that has to deal with mental illness and the fallout.


Werd


______________________________________________________________
ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.

Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.

Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Friday, October 28, 2005 10:20 AM on j-body.org
Glace we actually agree on that? HUH guess anythings possible




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.




Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Friday, October 28, 2005 8:07 PM on j-body.org
Jack: I know you were being facetious, but I meant that if she can get psyche help (medications etc) then she can return the favour working as a nursing assistant.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:01 AM on j-body.org
Well only if its helping the docs with the other nut jobs in the hospital where shes locked away in. But I don't think she should be allowed to help in a regular hospital with normal people.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Saturday, October 29, 2005 4:47 PM on j-body.org
HAH! Define "normal."

Personally, I know nurses are well supervised, and they watch other staff and each other because they're trained to. I might be off the mark here, but Nurses Assistants (as opposed to Professional Nurses or RN's) don't usually handle medications, with the exception of oral dose, so messing up a bolus or gaffing on a hep-block insertion is not a factor.

Either way, she can be of use.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:05 AM on j-body.org
OK Jackalope, GAM, Glace, (and all the rest, here on Gilligan's Island!!!) I'm not taking you the wrong way. I see it as we are just agreeing to disagree, and nothing else. My viewpoint is no better than yours, and vice versa.

Anyways, here we go.

GAM wrote:Okay, first, locking someone up because they have a mental illness is like locking somoene up because they were born with no legs. YES the comparison is viable... the person with the mental illness is disabled just as much as the other, it's just not visible under cursory inspection. You don't lock these people up for no reason.


I'm not saying all mentally irregular people need to be locked up. Hell some of them do fine work, like simple labor jobs, competing in the special olympics, even being the president of the United States. It's just this single person has proved that she is dangerous, and has violent tendencies to the point of being a killer. I simply feel that people like this do not belong in society. As I said before, there is ABSOLUTELY NO 100% GUARANTEE that she won't lapse into that state again. And simply locking her up for life serves no purpose. The simplist, most efficient way would be to execute her.



Quote:

Well, reading the story, and having a rudimentary understanding of anti-psychotic drugs, I think it's safe to say that she did have a very serious mental illness that had been undergoing treatment with Haldol (it was in the link that was provided at any rate). Haldol treatment can be abruptly stopped with no adverse effects except that the drug's therapeutic effects wane (also, link provided). She probably went off Haldol under medical advice, and was to begin treatment of another orally administered drug.... I'm only speculating though.


I'm not denying she does have a mental illness. It just seems nowadays that anyone who gets into trouble with the law all of a sudden has a mental illness, was abused as a child, their parents hated them, their pet rock died when they was 8, ect, ect, ect. Too many people are immature and don't want to take responsibility for their actions. It's everyone's fault but their own. Ya catch my drift???




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:06 PM on j-body.org
Roofy wrote: I'm not saying all mentally irregular people need to be locked up. Hell some of them do fine work, like simple labor jobs, competing in the special olympics, even being the president of the United States. It's just this single person has proved that she is dangerous, and has violent tendencies to the point of being a killer. I simply feel that people like this do not belong in society. As I said before, there is ABSOLUTELY NO 100% GUARANTEE that she won't lapse into that state again. And simply locking her up for life serves no purpose. The simplist, most efficient way would be to execute her.


There's a difference between organic mental illness, and being mentally "irregular" (to which I suspect you're referring to mental hygene issues). There's no 100% guarentee that anyone, given the right set of emotional/mental launch codes, won't go ballistic and do something similar. The point I was making is that while she was medicated, she did not exhibit these tendencies, and was not a threat to anyone. There's no question about it because she was fine until for whatever reason treatment with Haldol was ended.

Quote:

I'm not denying she does have a mental illness. It just seems nowadays that anyone who gets into trouble with the law all of a sudden has a mental illness, was abused as a child, their parents hated them, their pet rock died when they was 8, ect, ect, ect. Too many people are immature and don't want to take responsibility for their actions. It's everyone's fault but their own. Ya catch my drift???

I understand what you're saying, and that's why there are independant reviews set up to determine if they're competant. This woman was clearly not.

I've seen cases where mother's have harmed their kids to draw attention to themselves,and that's not a normal way to do that... the litmus test is if they knew at the time what they were doing was wrong, and if now, they understand and they can express regret at what happened. Without the first and second they're not competant, without the 3rd, they determine whether or not they were doing it with malice.

I say it again, this is all academic until it's you that's going through it. Take low-grade depression, and understand that it's not (estimated at over 75% of cases) diagnosed, but some people get better, some don't, some get worse... it's a function of brain chemistry and mental hygene that most people don't understand for themselves until they are diagnosed correctly and treated. More serious conditions (Psychosis, manic depression, Bi-polar disorder, MPD (if you believe in it), Schizophrenia) generally the person has no capacity to know that something is wrong, or dis-associates when they react to something that they might suspect is wrong or wil bring them harm (think of a woman that was raped going off into her own world when having consensual sex with her husband/BF).

I'm not a Doctor of psychiatry, but I think it's better to let them figure out who's bonkers and who's just playing at being nuts.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:34 PM on j-body.org
I REALLY hate to agree with Gam like this and usualy I don't but theres no way to gaurentee that anyone of us wouldn't "snap" tomorrow so theres no way to give a 100%
gaurentee but I do agree with you Roofy she doesn't need to be ever set loose and THANKFULY they probly wont ever let her out ever again. Look at that Hinkley dude that shot Regan hes still locked up and can only leave on supervised field trips of no more then a day an dthe shooting was how long ago? And he didn't even kill anyone. No I think shes padded room bound for the rest of her life.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:32 PM on j-body.org
Hinkley's refused all treatment, though, he was adjudicated as competant. (IIRC he's a malignant narcisist, or sociopath... I forget which. Either way he has the capacity to form intent and knows the difference between right and wrong.)




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Monday, October 31, 2005 5:12 AM on j-body.org
And hes still locked up.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Monday, October 31, 2005 9:35 AM on j-body.org
Umm, if I snap, i would fully expect you all to off me.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Monday, October 31, 2005 11:08 AM on j-body.org
Don't worry we aim to please around here




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.




Re: The lady in Cali. that threw her kids.......
Monday, October 31, 2005 4:37 PM on j-body.org
Keeper: sorry, I plan to deliver you (shellaced in butter, Fish awful, and maple syrup) to the Yeti known as Borsty.

After that, I don't ask, and won't tell.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.

 

Start New Topic Advanced Search