Actually, jack, you inadvertently helped me proved how both the liberals and conservatives should be chemcially spayed or neutered:
The liberals want everything to be PC so that everyone gets offended by everyone
the conservatives think you're evil unless you're a god-fearing christian.
Now, (everyone) being someone that is intelligent, tell me, how do either one of those promote peace on earth?
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]Actually, jack, you inadvertently helped me proved how both the liberals and conservatives should be chemcially spayed or neutered:
The liberals want everything to be PC so that everyone gets offended by everyone
the conservatives think you're evil unless you're a god-fearing christian.
Now, (everyone) being someone that is intelligent, tell me, how do either one of those promote peace on earth?
Thru natural selection, we can only hope the extremists kill each other off.
But I think that's too much to ask for a christmas wish, once again we're in an active war during the christmas season.
Also I've known many Jewish families that have "Christmas" trees. And celebrate BOTH holidays. Hanukkah as a celebration of light, the proof for their faith (read the story if you don't understand the meaning behind it), and then christmas as a time of giving to share with their friends and family.
Christians will tell you Christmas is celebrating the birth of christ, funny how it also falls around the same time as Winter Solstice, the longest night, Yule, etc.... sounds more pagan than Christian if you ask me.
For myself, Christmas is seeing all my relatives, friends, and family that I lose touch with as the year goes by and life goes on. It lets me catch up with them see how their doing and see where their going. It's a time when I can be surrounded by the people I love, and be near the people who love me.
Also as keeper said. Personally I don't care if the stores use christmas in their add titles. The truth is that holidays bring the worst out of people when their shopping. Last year, my wife (fiance at the time) and I made Christmas presents. If things slow down a bit we'll do it next year too. I'd rather have a hand made gift I can enjoy, than the newest coolest thing on the market. On top of that I'd rather see my family than recieve a gift at all if I could only have one or the other. Christmas in not materialism as corporate america would like you to believe.
GAM: they were holding each other at gunpoint over the Xbox 360. trampling is soo 1990's, get with the program man
-Chris
The tree is pagan in origin, actually, and along paganism, has roots in many of the faithes because of it's "living through the dead of winter" qualities...hence, why it's used as a symbol of the season. Ditto on the Yule log.
It's not the sharing of symbols for the holidays that get me, since it's done for Ostre, Samhain, and the solstice (and if monotheism had Midsommer, they probably would have borrowed traditions as well). Hell, if i got butt-hurt about that i would be no better than my asshat cow-irkers that are hoping that having a g/f will make me see the light and become christian again (yeah @!#$ right).
Again, what gets me is that you have one side, who thinks that everything should happen their way, and if you don't like it, you're evil, misguided, or need to be saved. Then the other side wants to show pride in what you are, and to hell with everyone else because they offend them. Hypocrisy all around.
Besides, there is no rule or law anywhere that says Santa Claus, Befana, St. Nick, The Holly King, Grandfather Frost, the elves, and gnomes can't attend the same party...
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
FatAss Falwell is joining the party now.
Quote:
Christian Conservatives Fight Happy Holidays
Nov. 30, 2005 — On Thursday, Boston will light its city Christmas tree, after an uproar over an attempt to rename it the "holiday tree." It's just one of many battles across the country over what some Christians see as attempts to sap Christmas of its religious meaning.
Christian conservatives have launched online petition drives and recruited a record 1,550 attorneys to pursue any attempts to substitute "Christmas" with "holiday," or any other inclusive or nonsectarian terms. It's all aimed at — to use their phrase — "putting the Christ back in Christmas." And in some places, it's working.
Target stores became the focus of a Christian conservative boycott, after banning Salvation Army kettles.
Christian conservatives say retailers should proudly play up Christmas even if some non-Christian customers are alienated.
"Tough luck," said Donald Wildmon, chairman of the American Family Association. "This is an overwhelmingly Christian country."
Some retailers are reacting to the pressure.
After using the more inclusive "Happy Holidays" in its ads and in-store promotions last year, Macy's is now embracing "Merry Christmas." And, after hundreds of phone calls, Lowe's stopped selling "holiday trees" and switched to "Christmas trees."
Speaking of trees, Christian conservatives applauded the speaker of the house when he had the tree on Capitol Hill switched from a "holiday tree" to a "Christmas tree." And, after Christians threatened to sue, Boston changed its mind about changing the name of its Christmas tree.
The Rev. Jerry Falwell says he and his allies are taking back Christmas from "Grinches" such as the American Civil Liberties Union.
"The fact is," Falwell said, "we've gone on the offense now. We've put them on the defense. We're kicking their butts and they're unhappy."
Critics say putting together an armada of Christian attorneys is likely a publicity stunt. If they sued Boston over the name of its tree, they'd likely lose because governments can call their trees whatever they want.
"Jerry Falwell has found that this war on Christmas is a very good, healthy, fundraising mechanism," said the Rev. Barry Lynn, director of People United for the Separation of Church and State. "And that's just about all this is. This is a war without any generals."
I can understand why they call it a holiday tree since many different religious people use a christmas tree for their holiday celebration. Locally there are many kwanzaa and jewish that include christmas trees with their celebration either due to thier families being half jewish or because their kids want christmas trees. Personally I don't give a @!#$ what they call it, I'm not religious but I'll still celebrate christmas for the gift giving and family time.
all i got to say is why celebrate christmas if you dont celebrate it for the reason it was meant for. y then? so you can get stuff. i seen where one guy said y not celebrate it in july. because thats not Jesus' birthday. thats y. same reason easter isnt in november. we celebrate these holiday because of what they mean and signifigance of them. not just because of what we can get out of them. i personally dont shop at target anyway because they support homosexuals. something which i dont agree with and never will. (adam and eve, not adam and steve. not natural.) im honestly suprised of sears being a long standing company like it is. also i will not support lowes anymore now that i know that. i wish id know becuase i just did a huge remodel and spent thousands there. i refuse to support anyone that doesnt acknolwedge the reason for the season. i knew it was heading here. look how long people have used x-mas instead of christmas. they have been working along time to take christ out of christmas and now its just going to the next step. forget politically correctness. its over rated. thats y this country is in the mess its in now. this is just the tip of the iceburg my friends.
"IF YOU PERSIST IN DOING WHAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS DONE .....
EXPECT RESULTS NO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY ACHIEVED"
Quote:
all i got to say is why celebrate christmas if you dont celebrate it for the reason it was meant for. y then? so you can get stuff. i seen where one guy said y not celebrate it in july. because thats not Jesus' birthday. thats y. same reason easter isnt in november. we celebrate these holiday because of what they mean and signifigance of them. not just because of what we can get out of them. i personally dont shop at target anyway because they support homosexuals. something which i dont agree with and never will. (adam and eve, not adam and steve. not natural.) im honestly suprised of sears being a long standing company like it is. also i will not support lowes anymore now that i know that. i wish id know becuase i just did a huge remodel and spent thousands there. i refuse to support anyone that doesnt acknolwedge the reason for the season. i knew it was heading here. look how long people have used x-mas instead of christmas. they have been working along time to take christ out of christmas and now its just going to the next step. forget politically correctness. its over rated. thats y this country is in the mess its in now. this is just the tip of the iceburg my friends.
well.... some of that is true but some is kind of stupid... like not supporting Sears because of gays and not going to Lowes because of what? The post above said that Lowes was changing its "holiday tree" back to "Chrismas trees"... I work at Lowes and they sell tons of Christmas stuff, I'd say they are supporting Christmas! Fine go to Ho Depot lol... as far as X-mas goes, its more of a laziness issue than people leaving Christ out of the word... if you can believe it Americans are lazy <sarcasm> I'm about to go out on a limb and guess you are a ultra-conservative Christian <more sarcasm>
I do agree however, that political correctness these days is ridiculous
Rascal: that's riiiiight... no more Brady Bill means you can buy it and walk with it... lol...
Consoles are overrated anyhow.
And hasn't anyone drop-kicked that asswipe Falwell? Seriously, he was funny as hell in the 80's because of the whole Larry Flint thing... and then, he kind of shut up in the early to mid 90's, only to jump on the whole Clinton thing (and people ignored him.. fancy that). Now his quavering voice of riteous indignation is going along with the a-moral or pensively challeneged and narrow-minded right... roo-rah.
I'm going to go watch Airplane!, the part where the chick with the "Moral Majority" t-shirt is shaking, shimmying, and shuddering... That's the only way I can plausibly crack a smile when contemplating that bunch of moronic @!#$s.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
no not sears. target. target supports homesexuality. im not a ultra cinservative christian by no means. im about as liberal as a christian as youll find. i just happen to follow a lot of what the bible says. thats all. if you say lowes is cool and supporting christmas thats cool. but y did they change away from it to start with. i just see that the united states is changing for the worse in lots of ways. this isnt the only problem we have. just one of the many. this is my last post for the month so there will be no more untill tomm.
"IF YOU PERSIST IN DOING WHAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS DONE .....
EXPECT RESULTS NO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY ACHIEVED"
Following the bible, and following your concience?
"This above all, to thyne own self be true." - Polonius to Laertes, Hamlet.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
the only reason why sears is not using the word christmas is because we don't want a lawsuit for not being sensitive to non christians, so we are told to use the ambiguious term "holiday". in fact my local sears store got told that if anyone is caught saying "merry christmas" or something of the like, we could get fired for it, because sears does not want to get a lawsuit for religious discrimination. theyre just covering thier ass, and i agree with that, cant' be too careful anymore
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Well Foamy has his Christmas rant up from last year.
link
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A couple of things to point out:
There's no proof that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th, 0000. I've heard everything from april to august to october,a nd most likely in 4BC. As such the holiday is observed.
No big deal, for ease of use i sually observe Samhain on Oct. 31st as opposed to the first full moon after the autumnal equinox. Observing a holiday on a other day for convienience doesn't negate the holiday in any means.
But that being said, again, some things people have to take into consideration.
Not everyone is christian. Deal with it. We don't celebrate christmis so quit freaking if we don't wish you a "merry christmas"
A lot of people are christianm, deal with it...don't freak when they wish you a merry christmas.
A lot of the so-called "christian" symbols of the season were borrowed from elsewhere. In such, it doesn't make them adherently "christian" (Wreathes, mistletoe, yule log, and the tannenbaum ("christmas" tree) are examples of such. As a non-christian, i have no beef about you calling it a christmas tree, but please, christians, stop pretending like it was your idea in the first place and getting butt-hurt when people don't refer to it as such. A little tolerance on both sides goes a long way.
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Everybody should just be happy they get vacation.
Wouldnt it be nice to live in a world where everyone would just chill the @!#$ out?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/559749/1
mattbeck16: god im a loser lol
Quote:
Some retailers give the word 'Christmas' a nod
By Theresa Howard, USA TODAYFri Dec 2, 7:16 AM ET
The word "Christmas," nearly absent in marketing by major retailers in recent years, has been quietly revived by some stores. Retail expert Jim Lucas says they are responding to consumers' desire to make the holidays more personal - whether they observe Christmas, Hanukkah or Kwanzaa.
"They are saying this has become very commercial and they want to reclaim the holiday season and make it relevant," says Lucas, head of strategic planning at ad agency Draft Worldwide.
Chains also may be responding to a push by groups such as The Catholic League and American Family Association (AFA) against a generic "winter holiday."
The AFA cited 10 retailers (Kroger, Dell, Target, OfficeMax, Walgreens, Sears, Staples, Lowe's, J.C. Penney and Best Buy) for omitting Christmas in ads. It urges shoppers to go where Christmas is recognized.
"If you are going to make your earnings on the year because of Christmas, why should you be ashamed to call it Christmas?" asks AFA President Tim Wildmon. "People don't buy Thanksgiving gifts."
Lowe's got special note for hanging "holiday tree" banners on lots at its 1,175 stores. It pulled them after complaints. "We wanted to call a Christmas tree what it is," says spokeswoman Chris Ahearn.
The Catholic League says it scored a victory when it pushed Wal-Mart to have a Christmas category on its website, which had Kwanzaa and Hanukkah gift sections.
Other chains giving Christmas a nod:
• Federated Department Stores - owner of Macy's and Bloomingdale's - is making sure its Christmas message is heard after consumer backlash last year over a supposed policy forbidding employees to wish shoppers "Merry Christmas."
A "Merry Christmas" ad thanking shoppers and employees is planned. The theme at Macy's New York store: Christmas in the City. Macy's TV ad features a big band tune mentioning Christmas.
"What we are doing is communicating our position," says spokesman Jim Sluzewski. "We never had a policy not to say 'Merry Christmas,' but clearly this is an issue of concern with a lot of people."
• Ads for Dillard's department stores say: "Discover Christmas. Discover Dillard's." But the regional chain says that is not a political statement. "We do not believe it is our place as a retailer to politicize the season," says spokeswoman Julie Bull. "The sentiment expressed certainly applies to the other holidays celebrated this time of year, as well."
• Christmas songs and trees are two of the things Victoria's Secret won't be bashful about in its lingerie show airing Tuesday on CBS. "The day is called Christmas. ... It all gears to Dec. 25," says Ed Razek, chief marketing officer.
Even so, Draft's Lucas says not to expect nativities or menorahs in ads. "The pendulum has swung a little away from PC. But if marketers get too specific or too religious, they'd be walking a weird line."
It looks like it's becoming almost OK to be Christian in this country again. There's only as much wrong with celebrating Christmas as there is with celebrating any other religious holiday. It just seems that in that past few years anything Christian has become something to stay away from and acceptable to ridicule and mock.
soon to be boosted (I hope) wrote:all i got to say is why celebrate christmas if you dont celebrate it for the reason it was meant for. y then? so you can get stuff.
Because I enjoy the time of year. My family only gets together for 2 times a year once during christmas. I enjoy putting chrismas light up and a few santa clauses and reindeer here and there. Getting presents is just icing on the cake.
Quote:
There's no proof that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th, 0000.
Good ? Keeper
Why would anybody document the birth of a child back in that time so well as to know how many wise men were there or what animals were there? Sounds kind of fishy to me.
Quote:
Not everyone is christian. Deal with it. We don't celebrate christmis so quit freaking if we don't wish you a "merry christmas"
A lot of people are christian, deal with it...don't freak when they wish you a merry christmas.
Bingo, don't be such a tightass about things.
Side note..... Macy's has changed their ads back to Chirstmas titles, Kmart and Sears are returning back to it next year, and Meijers has changed them back as well. Seems that some people's voices have been heard.....
They said that they didn't want to offend anyone, but the ironic twist is that they offended more people in the changes than they thought.
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
And here's another good point on the issue
LINK
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The Grinch finally stole Christmas, according to Fox News.
God bless America.
I dont understand why people have to read into the words so much. It been called christmas for so long why make a big deal out of it now? I hate that everything in america is so touchy these days.
I think i can tell you why everyone is freakin out.... Its because Jesus is black.
I think the fact that he was a Jew to begin with (IIRC a Sephardic Jew with strong mid-eastern features... ), is getting a bunch of dainty panties in knots.
I don't get what the big butt-hurtedness deal is. Christmas is a Holiday, so, let it be called a holiday sale if they want. It's not like you see people actually doing something about the real stupidity in the world.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Quote:
"Jerry Falwell has found that this war on Christmas is a very good, healthy, fundraising mechanism," said the Rev. Barry Lynn
Fund raising, for whom??? I'm willing to bet that there would be a severe reduction in evangelists and the like if there was no money involved.
As for Target and the like, so they don't allow the Salvation Army to solicit at their stores. Big deal, it's their corporation, they can do what they want. Personally, when I see a Salvation Army bell-ringer at EVERY SINGLE entry and exit of a store, it pisses me off. If someone want's to donate, then good, but don't try to corner people into doing it.
And boycotting a store because they don't openly hate a certain group of people is rediculous. Along that line, we might as well boycott Wal-Mart because I saw a black person drinking from a water fountain there last week.
Just because Target isn't hostile towards homosexuals, doesn't mean that they hate non-homosexuals.
soon to be boosted (I hope) wrote:i personally dont shop at target anyway because they support homosexuals. something which i dont agree with and never will. (adam and eve, not adam and steve. not natural.)
On a side note, homosexuality is as natural as glacial formations. Most developed species( along with humans
) exhibit forms of homosexuality. If a bull is mounting another bull, is it going to go to hell??? No, it's going to end up on my plate either way.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
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Now Bush is getting flack for this Bull@!#$ LOL
Quote:
Bushes' 'holiday' cards ring hollow for some
Christian conservatives wage war to put religion back into Christmas
Updated: 11:14 a.m. ET Dec. 7, 2005
What's missing from the White House Christmas card? Christmas.
This month, as in every December since he took office, President Bush sent out cards with a generic end-of-the-year message, wishing 1.4 million of his close friends and supporters a happy "holiday season."
Many people are thrilled to get a White House Christmas card, no matter what the greeting inside. But some conservative Christians are reacting as if Bush stuck coal in their stockings.
"This clearly demonstrates that the Bush administration has suffered a loss of will and that they have capitulated to the worst elements in our culture," said William A. Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.
Bush "claims to be a born-again, evangelical Christian. But he sure doesn't act like one," said Joseph Farah, editor of the conservative Web site WorldNetDaily.com. "I threw out my White House card as soon as I got it."
Religious conservatives are miffed because they have been pressuring stores to advertise Christmas sales rather than "holiday specials" and urging schools to let students out for Christmas vacation rather than for "winter break." They celebrated when House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) insisted that the sparkling spectacle on the Capitol lawn should be called the Capitol Christmas Tree, not a holiday spruce.
'Sent to people of all faiths'
Then along comes a generic season's greeting from the White House, paid for by the Republican National Committee. The cover art is also secular, if not humanist: It shows the presidential pets -- two dogs and a cat -- frolicking on a snowy White House lawn.
"Certainly President and Mrs. Bush, because of their faith, celebrate Christmas," said Susan Whitson, Laura Bush's press secretary. "Their cards in recent years have included best wishes for a holiday season, rather than Christmas wishes, because they are sent to people of all faiths."
That is the same rationale offered by major retailers for generic holiday catalogues, and it is accepted by groups such as the National Council of Churches. "I think it's more important to put Christ back into our war planning than into our Christmas cards," said the council's general secretary, the Rev. Bob Edgar, a former Democratic congressman.
But the White House's explanation does not satisfy the groups -- which have grown in number in recent years -- that believe there is, in the words of the Heritage Foundation, a "war on Christmas" involving an "ever-stronger push toward a neutered 'holiday' season so that non-Christians won't be even the slightest bit offended."
One of the generals on the pro-Christmas side is Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association in Tupelo, Miss. "Sometimes it's hard to tell whether this is sinister -- it's the purging of Christ from Christmas -- or whether it's just political correctness run amok," he said. "I think in the case of the White House, it's just political correctness."
Retail boycotts
Wildmon does not give retailers the same benefit of the doubt. This year, he has called for a consumer boycott of Target stores because the chain issued a holiday advertising circular that did not mention Christmas. Last year, he aimed a similar boycott at Macy's Inc., which averted a repeat this December by proclaiming "Merry Christmas" in its advertising and in-store displays.
"It bothers me that the White House card leaves off any reference to Jesus, while we've got Ramadan celebrations in the White House," Wildmon said. "What's going on there?"
At the Catholic League, Donohue had just announced a boycott of the Lands' End catalogue when he received his White House holiday card. True, he said, the Bushes included a verse from Psalm 28, but Psalms are in the Old Testament and do not mention Jesus' birth.
"They'd better address this, because they're no better than the retailers who have lost the will to say 'Merry Christmas,' " he said.
Donohue said that Wal-Mart, facing a threatened boycott, added a Christmas page to its Web site and fired a customer relations employee who wrote a letter linking Christmas to "Siberian shamanism." He was not mollified by a letter from Lands' End saying it "adopted the 'holiday' terminology as a way to comply with one of the basic freedoms granted to all Americans: freedom of religion."
"Ninety-six percent of Americans celebrate Christmas," Donohue said. "Spare me the diversity lecture."
Diversity has been a hallmark of White House greeting cards for some time, according to Mary Evans Seeley of Tampa, Fla., author of "Season's Greetings From the White House." The last presidential Christmas card that mentioned Christmas was in 1992. It was sent by George H.W. and Barbara Bush, parents of the current president.
Seeley said the first president to send out true Christmas cards, as opposed to signed photographs or handwritten letters, was Franklin D. Roosevelt. "Merry Christmas From the President and Mrs. Roosevelt," said his first annual card, in 1933.
Politicization of a holiday
Like many modern touches, the generic New Year's card was introduced to the White House by John and Jacqueline Kennedy. In 1962, they had Hallmark print 2,000 cards, of which 1,800 cards said "The President and Mrs. Kennedy Wish You a Blessed Christmas" and 200 said "With Best Wishes for a Happy New Year."
Lyndon and Lady Bird Johnson continued that tradition for a couple of years, but it required keeping track of Christian and non-Christian recipients. Beginning in 1966, they wished everyone a "Joyous Christmas," and no president has attempted the two-card trick since.
Seeley dates the politicization of the White House Christmas card to Richard M. Nixon, who increased the number of recipients tenfold, to 40,000, in his first year. The numbers since have snowballed, hitting 125,000 under Jimmy Carter, topping 400,000 under Bill Clinton and rising to more than a million under the current Bushes, with each president's political party paying the bill.
The wording, meanwhile, has often flip-flopped. Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter put "Merry Christmas" in their 1977 card and then switched to "Holiday Season" for the next three years. Ronald and Nancy Reagan, similarly, began with a "Joyous Christmas" in 1981 and 1982 but doled out generic holiday wishes from 1983 to 1988. The elder President Bush stayed in the "Merry Christmas" spirit all four years, and the Clintons opted for inclusive greetings for all of their eight years.
The current Bush has straddled the divide, offering generic greetings along with an Old Testament verse. To some religious conservatives, that makes all the difference.
"There's a verse from Scripture in it. I don't mind that at all, as long as we don't try to pretend we're not a nation under God," said the Rev. Jerry Falwell.
© 2005 The Washington Post Company
Gee I wonder if Fatass Falwell is going to sue Bush for not including Christmas on the cards
