Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday - Page 3 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:44 AM on j-body.org
/\ /\ /\ Hmm, That would seem like he hasn't reformed anything then. I mean if you don't at least appoligize then how can you expect to start over?




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.




Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:37 AM on j-body.org
whats an apology gonna do that his actions havent done already ? he has already appologized many mant times for his crimes its not like this last one was gonna make them say" well maybe he really is sorry lets not do it "



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:59 AM on j-body.org
Man all I can say about some of the posts in this thread is..

So much ignorance.....so little time.

I respect everyone's opinion..but it still amazes that some poeple's minds just do not evolve.

The only thing that baffles me is how can a governent who prints " In god we trust" on it's money...Says, "One nation under God" in it's pledge of allegiance, and "So god help you" in it's court trial oaths....

Take a life when it goes directly against that same God's commandments and further states that vengence is his alone?... and lets be frank, Thats what the death penalty is...it's not punishment..it's unadulterated vengence. You kill someone because they killed someone else.


Say it with me, "Its not what you know...It's what you can prove"

Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:15 AM on j-body.org
I support the death penalty. However, I don't think he should of be executed for one reason.....he will be doing more hurt now that he's dead.

The Crips will look at him as a martyr and a legend that will allow the gang to live on and prosper.

I think it's stupid to enforce justice on behalf of the family's who are victims of his crimes when there is a larger problem at hand.

Congrats Arnold. You've strengthened the hold the Crips have on your state, as well as the other areas in the world.






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Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:59 AM on j-body.org
Labotomi wrote:
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Dan Morrison wrote:
No, I was stating my opinion, just because it's different from yours doesnt mean it's a joke.

I believe in reform, not punishment. If we want to rid our society of violence, we should start by doing away with that big violent chain reaction that we refer to as punishment.


That's a rational idea... apparently that's unamerican.

You never let a chance to run down America go by. It's becoming an obsession.

Nah.

I don't run down America per se, it's usually absurd ideas like killing people to say killing people is wrong.

There are some redeeming points, but seriously, you're at the point where Britian was in the 17th-early 20th Centuries. The higher the peak, the greater the fall.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:03 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

Man all I can say about some of the posts in this thread is..

So much ignorance.....so little time.

I respect everyone's opinion..but it still amazes that some poeple's minds just do not evolve.

The only thing that baffles me is how can a governent who prints " In god we trust" on it's money...Says, "One nation under God" in it's pledge of allegiance, and "So god help you" in it's court trial oaths....

Take a life when it goes directly against that same God's commandments and further states that vengence is his alone?... and lets be frank, Thats what the death penalty is...it's not punishment..it's unadulterated vengence. You kill someone because they killed someone else.


Yea well this nation is founded under God by the same people that came here and slaughtered Native Americans so dont start complaining now. Also, all thoseGod quotes were created when. . .back when this country was coming to be a real nation, when everyone here was a WASP. If eveyone was a bhuddist, then it would be "In Bhudda we trust".

I know everyone has their opinion on the Death Penalty and all, and most of you guys are against it. But i feel it should be used when it needs to be. Like when someone kills a cop or someone like Tookie. no respect for life and anything anyone does. If you feel you can take the rights of the innocent then i feel society has the right to strip you of your freedoms. If that means death then so be it.



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:16 AM on j-body.org
Well, I'll give you my bit on the Death Penalty, yes... again.

It doesn't serve the public any greater good to kill a person, than it does to keep them in jail for the remainder of their natural lives (Before I hear someone gripe about the money, corporations are on greater amounts of taxation welfare than the entire jail population, and, if you fixed the ludicrous drug laws, there'd be oodles of left-over money for the reformation of prisoners). Basically, you're no safer with them dead or behind bars, and it's cheaper to jail them fir 25 years or more than execute them.

The moral mantra of "better 100 guilty go free than one innocent die needlessly" really comes into play. What purpose does it serve to have a guy (or girl) die, really? Vindicate some ancient, primordial urge to rub the power over life and death in someone's face (After the fact when it really means nothing), or feed some ignorant ideal of "satisfaction?" Do we really need to be no better than our worst element?

In this case, even though in freedom he was a really terrible person, Tookie's better work outweighed his criminal deeds... Doubtless, he'd have to account for his crimes, but, killing isn't right, no matter who does it. Life in Prison at least offers the chance of reformation, the execution of an innocent person isn't something you can take back. Would you rather a person live, and help other people that are as they once were find a better life (even if in prison), or possibly kill someone that is innocent?



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:48 AM on j-body.org
This whole thing also makes me wonder how many kids he saved from joining gangs with his books. Very hard to determine such a statistic. I can imagine it helped a decent amount though and will continue to do so in the years to come.

To put a spin on what I said about Tookie becoming a martyr to the gang world, it can work in the opposite direction as well. When kids are presented with his books and the moral message of his stories, the scare tactic of telling his life story and how he was executed could also prevent even more from joining.

Who knows?





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Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:51 AM on j-body.org
no one has said anything like this yet so i will

the problem with this is that although i have no proof or anything like that, there is a good chance he killed others that he wasnt charged with/convicted of. police depts usually deal with someone as high up as tookie by just trying to convict them on the most open and shut case so this was probably the one they had most solid. for just one glaring example would be the trial of sadaam. we all know he killed a lot of people during his reign but they are only trying him on the most obvious one where there is really no chance of aquittal.

i say the guy should die, and that being said may he rest in peace because he may have actually repented and thats gotta be worth something





Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:51 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

Tookie's better work outweighed his criminal deeds... Doubtless, he'd have to account for his crimes, but, killing isn't right, no matter who does it.


So if i killed your relative and then planted a rose garden for the communtiy and built a playground would i be cool with you? we could sit down and sip on tea one day[sarcasm]. I doubt it. Some people want justice for someone's life who was just taken for no reason. Thats the way society works. its easy to say killing is wrong no matter what its for but tell that to the relatives of those people. they wont want to hear it. Yes killing is wrong, but like ive said before, if you walk around and have no respect for others than why would you ever think that you should be respected? He got to him what he did to others. His good deeds were too little too late for most people.



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:52 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

even earning multiple Nobel Peace Prize nominations,


Not to be an @ss but reading up on his Nobel Peace Prize nominations they only started in 2001 and it was filed 4 times when his time was running out. As for WHO nomiated him for it.... there are a few different ways you can get your nomination for Nobel Peace Prize . . . . any attorney or professor from a university can write a letter and nominate you for it . . . .

Just some food for thought . . . .

Back in 1939 good ol Hitler was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize . . . . . so what does that say? Hitler was a great guy?








Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:03 PM on j-body.org
/\ /\ /\ Wasn't Hitler on the cover of TIME life more then anyone else. Sorry that was off topic but I just thought of it since KARO mentioned him being up for the nobel prize.
And I can't see Tookie in the same light as say Mother Teresa. Sorry.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:29 PM on j-body.org
Hitler was nominated for not invading Austria in 1934 .. That's kinda funny. I didn't kill my neighbour, so I should get a citizenship award.

Anyway ...

Quote:

So if i killed your relative and then planted a rose garden for the communtiy and built a playground would i be cool with you? we could sit down and sip on tea one day[sarcasm]. I doubt it. Some people want justice for someone's life who was just taken for no reason. Thats the way society works. its easy to say killing is wrong no matter what its for but tell that to the relatives of those people. they wont want to hear it. Yes killing is wrong, but like ive said before, if you walk around and have no respect for others than why would you ever think that you should be respected? He got to him what he did to others. His good deeds were too little too late for most people.


No, but maybe if you served life in prison, that would be enough.

He did not get what he gave, he sat on Death Row for 24 years waiting to be killed. That torture is beyond what he did to his victoms. He never appologized for killing those people because he never admitted guilt. I'm curious what the evidence was, all the prosecution is saying now is that it was "solid". I should see if I can look it up.

Question: Swartzenegger (sp?) said he would not commute the sentence, but did he have to? Could he not have granted a stay of execution?

PAX
Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:31 PM on j-body.org
I nominate you for the citizenship award.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:42 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

He did not get what he gave, he sat on Death Row for 24 years waiting to be killed. That torture is beyond what he did to his victoms. He never appologized for killing those people because he never admitted guilt. I'm curious what the evidence was, all the prosecution is saying now is that it was "solid". I should see if I can look it up.


Yea he sat there becuase he kept appealing because he wanted to get out. thats why it took so many years. all the courts denied him, Schwartzenegger denied him, nothing else he could do except meet his fate. Torture, i could care less how much torture he had to go through sitting is prison. if he is so good why hasnt he helped to put any other gang members in prison.

next time something like this happens i hope they set the person free and he winds up doing something wrong again. because prison is too much torture and death is wrong. Dont do the wrong things and there wont bve any reason for your freedoms to be compromised. You dont need to smoke crack, you dont need to rob anyone, you dont need to kill anyone. . .but once you do this its game over with your freedom.



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 2:03 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

Some people want justice for someone's life who was just taken for no reason.


Justice or Retribution?

Quote:

You dont need to smoke crack, you dont need to rob anyone, you dont need to kill anyone. . .but once you do this its game over with your freedom.


I hope you are as completely rightoeus as it would take for one to make that statement. By that statement every Solidier who has ever killed someone should be killed. (Following orders,defending a country or fighting for your Commander in Chiefs agenda doesnt give an excuse) If it does than all terrorists are nothing more than the Freedom fighters for thier country they claim to be.
See everything isnt Black and White..there are shades of gray.

Im not a bleeding heart by any standards...however I do believe in calling it like I see it.

If you want to evoke the death penalty..then do it. But do it because the person is a threat to society. Dont do it under the pretense of Justice.
To kill some one becasue they killed someone = an eye for an eye
eye for an eye = vengence

vengence does not equal justice. (legally anyway)

Please re -read what I wrote above and understand what I said.

If you want to evoke the death penalty..then do it. But do it because the person is a threat to society

Dont do it and call it justice becasue it is not..it's vengence. If you want vengence then fine go ahead and do it....but call it what it is vengence


Say it with me, "Its not what you know...It's what you can prove"

Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 2:30 PM on j-body.org
I did not mean that prison is torture (although some may argue that), I meant that sitting, waiting to die, for 23 years is torture. He gets a max of 6 appeals, so why did that take 23 years?

PAX
Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:11 PM on j-body.org
it took 23 years because our legal system is flawed but thats another debate. honestly if i had my way i would reinvent prisons. and none of this cruel and unusual punishment would play a role in my prison .

None of us can deny the strides he has made for the epidemic of the gang culture. and if you do you seriously need to research him alittle. granted his work does not excuse his killings. however it could have been a start. with proper guidence he could of helped rid the usa of gangs. whoelse better to throw in the middle of world war 3 then there beloved ex commander ?



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:43 PM on j-body.org
A bunch of you guys are saying that Tookie spent 22-26 years in prison and thats torture enough but look at it this way.....he lived 26 years longer than his victims!
Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:54 PM on j-body.org
Mr. Pute wrote:This whole thing also makes me wonder how many kids he saved from joining gangs with his books. Very hard to determine such a statistic. I can imagine it helped a decent amount though and will continue to do so in the years to come.

To put a spin on what I said about Tookie becoming a martyr to the gang world, it can work in the opposite direction as well. When kids are presented with his books and the moral message of his stories, the scare tactic of telling his life story and how he was executed could also prevent even more from joining.

Who knows?


i think we would be better served by having him talk to kids in/joining gangs to try to sway them. he could do more good by that than rotting in a box,dont ya think? i dunno, but i think that would be more powerful than having some two bit crook talk to kids. people KNEW who tookie was! i gess we'll never know...


mecp certified installer#39272

Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:21 PM on j-body.org
^^^^ exactly the guy is an urban legend in his time. Yes it is very well known that he started the gang known as the crips but did you also know that it was started because people from other blocks would come and sell drugs in there neighborhood(granted its before they themselves turned into drug sales to fund there orginization) they also took in stay kids that hadnt had a home, they would do work for the community, all stuff that isnt done by the gang we all know of today. im deffinetly not justifying any of there actions we all know they did there wrongs with killings, drug sales and other various illegal activities but they also showed some light for the community (not much though)




Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:17 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

If you want to evoke the death penalty..then do it. But do it because the person is a threat to society.


Oh so creating the Crips is not a threat to society.

Quote:

i think we would be better served by having him talk to kids in/joining gangs to try to sway them. he could do more good by that than rotting in a box,dont ya think? i dunno, but i think that would be more powerful than having some two bit crook talk to kids. people KNEW who tookie was! i gess we'll never know...


Better served having him talk to kids.. .How about snitching out the rest of those gang members that create hell for people. You dont want a kid to join a gang then get rid of the damn gang that you started. its because The Bloods and Crips are like role models for kids that join gangs. Those are the Patriots of gangs.

Quote:

I hope you are as completely rightoeus as it would take for one to make that statement. By that statement every Solidier who has ever killed someone should be killed. (Following orders,defending a country or fighting for your Commander in Chiefs agenda doesnt give an excuse


What i meant is that how can someone complain about their situation if they are responsible for themselves. Different crimes come with different penalties. If he didnt want to face the Death Penalty, then maybe he shouldnt have killed anybody. War is different. First off fighting for your freedom(Revolutionary War) and fighting because you are attacked(WWII;Pearl Harbor) are different then what Bush has done. just because he didnt like Saddam he had to make a big deal and now its out of control and this is what happens, rather then just attacking Afghanistan and finding Osama.



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:26 PM on j-body.org
the crips when they started out is not the same as today. difforant group of people difforant ethics, its a bad comparison.



Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:31 PM on j-body.org
jason rubito(beatz) wrote:the crips when they started out is not the same as today. difforant group of people difforant ethics, its a bad comparison.


its the same as if you have a kid, nice child, but turns into a serial rapist/murderer. is it not still your kid?

he formed a gang, mabey he had good intentions and mabey it was good, but then it turned evil. its still his gang, his child


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Re: Tookie Execution, 12:01am PST Tuesday
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:33 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

he formed a gang, mabey he had good intentions and mabey it was good, but then it turned evil.


Ha, yea they were going to be like the guradian angels but instead turned into the Black panthers



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