Mexico is isitting on tons of cheap oil. We could just charge mexico 1 barrel of oil for every illegal mexican immigrant that we are supporting with our tax dollars. that comes out to about 9-11 million barrels of oil. problem solved.

Steve


My other car is an interceptor.

Gam you are correct too unless something is done to promote alternative fuels and reduce our dependancy on fossil fuels then no prices will never go down. For us to make such a big stink about some exporatory drilling up there in the Tundra.

U.S. Geological Survey - 1980. In 1980, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated the Coastal Plain could contain up to 17 billion barrels of oil and 34 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

I am not sure on the Current useage of oil but in 96 it was 71 million or something to that effect and they estimated in 2020 it would be around 100 million. So a billion is a thousand million that means there is roughly a 170 day worldwide supply base on the estimated figures that I could find. Of course assuming that the 1980 figures above are correct as well as the estimated use figures used. i just dont see a reason not to try. These are all estimates could be more could be less but unless drilling is done nobody will ever truely know.

Good I'm glad they blocked it. @!#$ we ought to leave on wilderness place on this earth untouched for christ sakes. There are alternatives people just need to start using them. Instead of driving to a store 1-5mi. away walk or bike to it, my wife and I reduced our auto gas usage by around 200mi. a month by using these methods. There's solar power available for your home that's more efficient now than it used to be. A local college town invested in wind power by building a windfarm to supply part of the towns power because the power company was giving residents the screw job.

Spike, Why ? Noones saying to destroy it just get the oil from it.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

spikej,

Did you see the size of the area they are actually talking about effecting in ANWR???? The link below is a scale picture of the space they are talking about effecting. The little tiny red dot in green secion of the map. Here is the link agian. To the site I got the picture from and to the picture itself.

Picture

http://www.anwr.org/docs/CloseupofareaIII.pdf

Website

http://www.anwr.org/

The problem is the pipelines....

the current one can't handle the extra traffic.



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Heh question, if Canada wanted to be a dick, they can block the pipeline construction since it would have to go through Canadian soil, right? Unless the US used ships or something, which would be expensive.....


______________________________________________________________

ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.

Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.

I think our current pipeline ends before it hits Canada. Remember the EXXON Valdeez
accident at Price William Sound ? They have to ship it from there down to here.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

You are correct.. the proposal was to run a pipeline in through the Yukon Territory, down the eastern side of the rockies to either Calgary or somewhere in Colorado, and refine there.

The only problem: you can't dig in permafrost, and the Canadian Gov't takes native rights, wildlife and nature preservation seriously.

The alternate plan was to pipe down the sunshine coast or to Prince William Sound (IIRC... I forget the actual area), and either upgrade the existing pipe to accomodate the traffic increase or run a parallel pipe and junction in... the problem with that is that it's more money, and still inefficient because you either have to go to a depot and go by tanker, or have an underwater pipeline in a high turbidity area that has the possibility of shearing the pipe open... and oh, the environmental and legal consequences.

Either way the Alaskan oil fields aren't going to sate the demand for US oil. You need to get that under control first, and then you won't need to go traipsing around the globe looking for then worthless black gold.



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Hey, I've got an idea.. How about the US invades a country in the middle east that has oil. We could claim that he's the next Hitler or that he's got bombs or WMD's or a BB gun.

Then, when we've got him in prison, we hold a fake election, put someone in office we can tell what to do, and make him send over "shloads" of oil.

Yea, that sounds like a plan....


Seriously, I'm against screwing up wildlife reserves for a little oil. Conservation is a good idea, except when it's 15 degrees I'm not walking to the store. The excessive prices could be regulated by the federal government, but they're the ones getting rich off oil companies so that won't happen.

My solution... Get a rubber hose and wait for your neighbor with his giant SUV to fall asleep. He won't notice a few gallons here and there...




John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

I save power as well... I've "borrowed" power from her for a year or so for my 62" TV, 1000 watt 7.1 audio system and DVD player.

I also borrow the power for my Oven, Dryer and hair dryer from her. I don't think she minds much... This is the same woman that bitches about the Gas bill being over $400 a month in the winter, when she leaves the front and back doors open for 4 hours in the evening.



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hey GAM

Quote:

If you want to deflate oil prices, you need to reduce demand.

besides forcing hybrids, elecs, or hydro-cars.... how else is a society which is obsessed with autoracing, most cars comming out now more powerful than ever (the avg is more nearing 200HP with many companies) and such?

That would involve 2 things, neither of which a consumer society is going to readily embrace until is way past too late:
- Changing ideals from blantant consumption, to preservation and conservation of finite resources
- Shift from using a short supply energy resource to something more renewable.

The way to get people interested is to actually make it a competition. No one really cares about using a hybrid because hybrid = slow cars for tree huggers. Until there is a car that looks fast, drives well and makes decent 1/4 mile time, costs the same as a regular IC engine, AND is in quantity and quality... No one will give much of a damn about it unless they're penny-pinchers.

Until such time as that:
- Keep the car in good tune.
- Drive at a sensible speed (ie don't play F1driver in traffic).
- Plan your driving to minimise the amount of fuel you use.
- Don't allow the car to idle needlessly (use about 30 seconds to 1 minute of idle at start, and you're set, even in the very coldest of winter days).

Most people in North America or Asia don't even do that, and thats just plain common sense. If you notice, European drivers on the whole use as little fuel as possible, because the fuel is about $5 a gallon! I think higher fuel prices (while a serious kick in the balls for those of us that try to use as little as necessary) is a good thing because it clues people into the huge amount of fuel and thereby money they're wasting.



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GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:That would involve 2 things, neither of which a consumer society is going to readily embrace until is way past too late:
- Changing ideals from blantant consumption, to preservation and conservation of finite resources
- Shift from using a short supply energy resource to something more renewable.

The way to get people interested is to actually make it a competition. No one really cares about using a hybrid because hybrid = slow cars for tree huggers. Until there is a car that looks fast, drives well and makes decent 1/4 mile time, costs the same as a regular IC engine, AND is in quantity and quality... No one will give much of a damn about it unless they're penny-pinchers.

I never understood why the tree huggers embraced electric/hybrid cars. They still have the one critical flaw, batteries wear out and end up causing more pollution. Recycling batteries is more harmful to the environment than a properly tuned cars emissions. It's not a solution, it's just to pi$$ off us car guys who like internal combustion engines.

Maybe we could switch back to steam powered cars. They were simple in design and only need heat and water to get 'em going.
We could burn hemp for fuel, at least that way I wouldn't mind being stuck in rush hour traffic... as long as I had a decent supply of Doritos.






John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

Well there are a few people here who keep defending drilling there with -

Quote:

We need to, lower pump prices, reduce dependence, etc

There is NOT enough oil there to make a difference - not at the pump, not on our dependence, not on anything! What don't you get?!

This is a BAND-AID solutions to to a very serious, real long-term problem. This is like getting stabbed and trying to hold in the blood with your hand instead of getting an ambulance.

Remember how Iraq was supposed to drop our prices like there's no tomorrow? Iraq at least, actually has a meaningfully large supply of oil. The area in question in Alaska does not. Granted there is instability in some of Iraq, but even then where's that sure-thing pump plummet? Didn't happen. However Iraq, unlike the area in question, has the potential to actually make a difference in the future.

On this issue, the environmentalist aren't blocking meaningful progress, just a destructive and very short term, temporary fix. I might feel different if there was a middle east - part 2 up there, but there is not. Not even close.

Quite simply the juice isn't worth the squeeze. You could literally make a bigger impact by getting everyone to start burning their used motor oil for heat this winter.

< <--- (I don't have photoshop )

Certain members of the legislative and executive branch need to stop pretending that there is a meaningful amount of oil up there. Besides the ignorance of a few, the primary reason they do this is - POLITICS - plain and simple. The politicians pushing for this know 2 things -

1. Although there is little value to the amount of oil to be drilled up there, attempting to push for this means (in the less-informed eyes of the general voting public) that they are trying to do something to get us off of "towel-head oil." That has no hope of really reducing independence even a little, but the public doesn't know this, therefore the people pushing for this become heroes any Americans who is tired of high gas prices.

2. That anyone who cares much for the environment(typically Liberals) will try their best to block this pointless Duck and Cover solution. For the same reason those pushing for this become heroes to the voting populace, those opposing it are taking a major hit for blocking so called progress(except in the eyes of extreme earth freaks of course - and they're not a majority by any means).

It amazes me that anyone still believes ANYTHING a politician has to say without investigating the matter themselves. Along those lines, here's a joke for you -

How do you know that a politician is lying to you?


























































They are moving their lips.

Duck and Cover


I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?

BK3K: correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you get only about 15% of the domestic oil consumption from the mid-east?

I've read somewhere that the US could end its dependance on Mid-east oil if gasoline engines made just 5 more MPG across the board... If you figure that you can get 2-3 by keeping the tires inflated, and driving 2 miles under the speed limit, I don't think that's unrealistic.

John: Old lead acid battery tech is very environmentally unfriendly, definitely, but, from what I've read, NiMH and Li-on batteries have very little di-electric, and what is there can be reconditioned really quickly, and ecologically soundly.

And if we switch to steam powered cars, Jay Leno will be a really happy guy Seriously, though, I think hydrogen powered cars will be the way of the future once the gas-extraction methods evolve beyond mass-electrolysis operations.

And if they burn hemp or ditchweed, you'd be better served to get some gravol than doritos... that stuff is just nasty smelling. Skunk is a little easier on the olfactory sensors



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Just for everyone's information Here is America's Energy score card coutesy of the department of energy

Quote:


Chevron(aka BIG oil company) is behind this site - WillYouJoinUs.com
The counter is based on the daily consumption of oil (84 million barrels per day) and gas (nearly 44 million barrels per day) in the world. The total of 127.8 million barrels per day works out to 1,480 barrels per second. The counter represents the rate at which oil and gas are being consumed in the world at any given moment.

Quote:

The 20th century was marked by rapid growth and an increase in prosperity throughout the world. But the past pales in comparison to the pace at which the 21st century is advancing. Populations are increasing, economies are developing, and the world is consuming energy faster than ever before.

By 2020, some experts predict the world’s energy consumption will be 40% higher than it is today. Efficiency, improvements, and conservation are part of the solution, but will not, in themselves, meet the need for more energy.

coutesy of a google search -

Quote:

The US Department of Energy (DOE)estimates that oil production in Alaska's wildlife preserve could deliver one million barrels of oil a day between 2015 and 2020, which is the estimated timeframe for drilling the ANWR, provided the drilling is approved in the current budget before congress.

lets see here - 1 million barrels a day from the wildlife preserve, which could happen as early as 2015-2020, current usage of 84 million barrels per day(estimated 40% higher by 2020 so 117.6 million per day). So that means we're looking at a increase of 0.853% in world oil production, and even then not anytime soon. Some pump-price saviors congress turns out to be.




I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?

More oil isn't the answer.

Less people is. I say start the wholesale pillage and murder of overpopulated nations.


And I'm being a huge dick on that last one



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:More oil isn't the answer.

Less people is. I say start the wholesale pillage and murder of overpopulated nations.


And I'm being a huge dick on that last one

Wow, someone is still bitter over that whole "tookie" discussion!


I do agree that more oil won't solve the problem. When a forest is on fire, the answer isn't to drop more trees on it so it....

We need a better renewable fuel that can run Nascar as well as mom's minivan. If such a fuel was used to win at the Daytona 500 we'd all be using it within a year or two.

I've read that hybrids shut off the gas engine when the car comes to a stop, then restarts when you take your foot off the brake and hit the gas. Is this being used on non-hybrid new cars yet?





John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

I'm not bitter

I've long advocated the de-population of human infestations, licensing for purposes of reproduction, and thought-taxes.

I'm not Dubya.. because I wouldn't use any bs excuse to invade a country... I'd invade because there are too many people... China? 1 Billion people? how about 6832? Sound good? India? I'd say about the same number after...

Iraq would have exactly 15 people left and they'd have 12 good legs between them, and scooters otherwise.

But, I digress.


Most Hybrids keep the gasoline engine running, but that's to supply the alternator with power, and when the car begins decelerating or coasting, the energy is diverted to the recharging of batteries. The stopping/restarting idea isn't a good one... imagine stop-and-go traffic and the wear and tear on the engine?

Other than ethanol, I don't know what we can use to power everything, but then again, I'm just the resident ass hole know-it-all



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