One of the biggest things that I teach is the Responsible Use of Force, meaning that you don't fight unless you absolutely have to. I'm a Brown Belt Instructor, I love the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program, I love to grapple and I love the training, but I hate getting into a fight. I'm not going to lie when someone gets in my face I back down and try to defuse the situation, it's pointless to try and fight, but if there is no way around it then so be it, but it's important to try to defuse the situation first.
Now, I'm not saying any of those guys aren't responsible, nor am I discrediting their skills, but you can't just come out and say that they are the best because that's the way that it's marketed. A friend of my Dad's is a 5th degree Black Belt in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, is he the best no, but he's better then a good portion of Martial Artists.
Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home
Most of the martial artist which participate are former or present world champions whether it be in karate, tae kwon do, jui jitsu, mua tai, or judo. And Fedor Emelianenko is a world sambo and judo champion. Pride is an elite japanese fight club that represents all backgrounds of fighting technique.....They also have been known to have the stongest chins.
Saint wrote:One of the biggest things that I teach is the Responsible Use of Force, meaning that you don't fight unless you absolutely have to. I'm a Brown Belt Instructor, I love the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program, I love to grapple and I love the training, but I hate getting into a fight. I'm not going to lie when someone gets in my face I back down and try to defuse the situation, it's pointless to try and fight, but if there is no way around it then so be it, but it's important to try to defuse the situation first.
The best fight to be in is the one that never started, eh?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
^^^bingo.
If you're so deluded to think that martial arts is about fighting, whether sparring in a conest or otherwise, then you're not a martial artist, and will never be one.
End of @!#$ discussion.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
The whole point of sparring, is to get the student used to inter-personal violence so that if they do ever get into a figh it isn't the first time they've been in that situation. It also gives them a way to practice the techniques against a resisting opponent, to prove that the techniques do work in a real environment.
Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home
Saint wrote:The whole point of sparring, is to get the student used to inter-personal violence so that if they do ever get into a figh it isn't the first time they've been in that situation. It also gives them a way to practice the techniques against a resisting opponent, to prove that the techniques do work in a real environment.
/\/\ Disagree. The purpose of sparring is to teach the student how to perform their skill in a supervised environment to further hone those skills. Unless your trainer/sensei allows use of beer bottles, thrown pool balls and the notorious "sucker punch from that guy's friend", you're not going to be prepared for a real environment. I've boxed and been in bar fights, totally different situations. In the gym/dojo, you have proper warm up, supervision and they usually limit the contact with some pads or at least "rules of engagement". You don't have any of that in a bar fight. There also isn't someone there to stop your opponent if you get hurt in a bar fight. Could you do a spinning back kick after getting a pool cue across the back? Sparring and real conflicts are totally different.
Saint and Gam have the right idea... The best way to win a fight is not to get in one.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
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You missed my point, sparring even in a supervised environment introduces the student to inter-personal violence, you'd be amazed at the percentage of people that have never been in a fight. The pads are for safety, and they do prove that the techniques work, the way I train, I'll throw a training knife or baton into the match, when the person with a weapon gets a "killng" blow the bout is over, and I've been submitted when I had the weapon in my hand. I understand there is a massive difference between, in my case, combat and training, but the reason for the training is still the same. It's the same reason why when we go to the field we use Blanks, MILES gear, or Sim rounds, to get the person used to that environment, so that if they do enter combat and they have to engage the enemy, they are confident that they can engage the enemy, either with their Rifle, Ka-Bar, or even their fists. That is the whole point of any type of sparring to give the student confidence in the techniques that they have learned, it's easy for me to tell a student to lie down and have his partner perform an arm bar on him when he isn't really resisting, and when that student gets to combat he will be unprepared. If I put him in, even a supervised, ground fighting or sparring match he can then apply the techniques that I taught him against a live resisting opponent that is trying to do the same things to him that he is attempting to do. If you can't see those points then you are missing the idea of sparring.
Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home
Your points is quite evident......but it doesnt change the fact that there are true martial artists in Pride.....whether you agree or not with showing off your fighting techniques..... Your a dumb martial artist if youll turn down $150,000 for one fight.
I'm not saying that sparing doesn't have it's points. I do have 7 years experience in martial arts. Sparring can be a great training tool because of the confrontational aspects that Saint said. Although a decent sensei/sifu/sabmnim wil explain to the students that sparring is not real, and in in a real self-defense situation, they can, should, and must be willign to use all techniques--including those illegal in sparring, to defend themselves/their family as fast as possible, using enough force to prefent a further attack and get out of the situation.
However, saying that Pride, UFC, Pankration, et al, ARE the best of the best of martial arts is downright wrong. It's showing a small sliver of what it means to be a martial artist, and then by that sliver, which any *decent* sensei/sifu/sabumnim/etc. will tell you is nowhere near the most important thing a martial artist is judged by, you say they're the best of the best is showing outright ignorance.
If you fight for money, you're a prizefighter--period; not a martial artist. A real martial artist would not defame his/her art by fighting over a petty thing like money. They would only fight in defense of themselves or their family. Otherwise, it flushes everything a martial art stands for right down the crapper.
(side note: I would not say this applies to Saint, but in the same token, i don't hold what he does as a martial art int he purest sense because again, it promotes fighting--being military and thus justifying the purpose. It would have less to do with the self-pursuit of bettinging the mind, body, and spirit and avoiding fighting to all costs. No offense intended, Saint, but even you know that a marine/seaman/soldier/airman backing down and not fighting when ordered is a bad thing.
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Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Well, yeah, backing down when engaged with the enemy is a very bad thing. However the term "Martial" means pertaining to war, therefore I teach a true Martial Art, and the beginning of all Martial Arts was for military purposes, and defense of their country. There are offensive aspects to all martial arts, however the offensive aspects are designed to be used in a defensive situation, because as everyone ones the best defense is a good offense, to take the momentum of a fight, and turn it around where you have the attackers on their heels where they can't employ their offensive tactics.
Keeper, you do have a very good point, and I am not denying that at all, and as I've explained I do not promote fighting, in fact the Continuum of Force that is taught at the most basic level, and that I include in everyone of my classes, is, in fact, designed for defensive situations. There are Five Levels in the Continuum of Force ranging from verbal commands all the way up to Deadly Force, and is a reactive system with the subject, not the Marine, deciding when each level will be required, and it is designed so that only the appropriate amount of force is used to contain the situation. Now that is not saying that everything the Marine Corps does is defensive, as the two Battles of Fallujah in 2004 will prove, and MCMAP is used in those Offensives, the Continuum of Force still applies, however once the situation has escalated to Level 5 (Deadly Force), as most offensives start at, it can not be de-escalated, because now it is kill the enemy before they kill you.
Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home
Well, lebron James was All State in Ohio in Football as well, so he may be able to give Curtis a run for his money at this point
jordan kruger wrote:Your points is quite evident......but it doesnt change the fact that there are true martial artists in Pride.....whether you agree or not with showing off your fighting techniques..... Your a dumb martial artist if youll turn down $150,000 for one fight.
its not dumb at all man its personnel choice. and there personnel morels they dont believe in fighting why fight just to get a check ?
About fighting for money... If you're viewing martial arts as a spiritual journey, then yes fighting for a paycheck does degrade what you're trying to accomplish. But if you view martial arts as just a physical/mental development, then fighting for a paycheck isn't a bad thing.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
John Wilken wrote:About fighting for money... If you're viewing martial arts as a spiritual journey, then yes fighting for a paycheck does degrade what you're trying to accomplish. But if you view martial arts as just a physical/mental development, then fighting for a paycheck isn't a bad thing.
Well put..... Quite a few of the martial artists in Pride have previously been world champions before they joined Pride.
