Emor8t wrote:lol @ capitalism.
When MS does that stuff they are being greedy, when Apple does it, it's to appease their shareholders. Is one really better than the other. Apple has a much bigger customer
base than share holders.
Apple raised the price of educational copies of OS X. Microsoft lowered their educational copies of Office. Tell me what's more greedy? Not to mention stupid.
Apple: I know, let's piss off the people who are most likely to get pirated copies of our OS and software!
And no, before you even attempt to say it, OS X is not pirate-proof, Project OSX86, is one good example of this.
MS is greedy because their software is getting worse and worse, and they are charging more and more. I mean if you get vista ultimate retail and office pro retail you are at nearly $1,000 F THAT!
definatly not pirate proof... unless you think the "bad karma" message is a big deterrent.
no keys, no codes, no activation.. no BS.. pirate away. bad karma get ftw.
You could always get the family pack for $199, you can install it on 5 machines ends up being ~$40 per machine
They do have really good edu discounts on their hardware. - but alas EDU OSX is $116 (but worth every penny more than windows)
Bastardking3000 wrote:(sigh) I could rebuttal everything you just said Cable, but what is the point? You missed the point on most all of what I posted, and managed to spin the rest in ways that would make most politicians uncomfortable. So this is what it's like to live in complete denial...
It is pointless to try to give facts to someone who only can see iFacts in all things. In reference to you - I give up. Steve Jobs could savagely beat you and your mother with a baseball bat - and your response would be that you two probably deserved it.
If someone else wants to have a even slightly logical debate about Apple, I'd welcome it.
Defending Windows over Mac a sign of mental illness
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:can i play half-life 2 in leopard?
awwwwww...... nope.
mac FTL.
Actually thats yet to be determined.
There is a rumor that it will run windows software without running windows, but I doubt it. You will still likely need bootcamp, or fusion.
Valve will port it for $1,000,000 but Apple doesn't want to pay, and neither does anyone else.
but when their market share is 50% say oh in the next 2 years I am sure the story will be different.
some updates...
"Apple has announced plans to add code-scrambling diversity to Mac OS X Leopard, a move aimed at making the operating system more resilient to virus and worm attacks. The security technology, known as ASLR (address space layout randomization), randomly arranges the positions of key data areas to prevent malware authors from predicting target addresses. Another new feature coming in Leopard is Sandboxing (systrace), which limits an application's access to the system by enforcing access policies for system calls."
wo features alone that are worth the entire cost of Apple’s Mac OS X Leopard
Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 02:40 PM EDT
Two of Apple's list of 300+ Leopard features "leapt off the page," headed right straight at Blackfriars' Marketing's Carl Howe:
Tagging Downloaded Applications
Protect yourself from potential threats. Any application downloaded to your Mac is tagged. Before it runs for the first time, the system asks for your consent — telling you when it was downloaded, what application was used to download it, and, if applicable, what URL it came from.
Signed Applications
Feel safe with your applications. A digital signature on an application verifies its identity and ensures its integrity. All applications shipped with Leopard are signed by Apple, and third-party software developers can also sign their applications.
Howe writes, "Those features jumped out at me because the very first Forrester report I wrote in 1996 was about desktop security and the threat of active content. In that report, I wrote that if you want a truly secure platform, you need both app signing and run-time validation to guarantee that you only run trusted code. I further noted that Windows would never become a truly secure platform without these features. The fact that these features they are built into Leopard says that even as Macs gain in popularity, Apple has no intent of letting its OS or its iPhone become an easy security target. And these two features are worth the entire cost of upgrade and more to anyone worried about desktop and server security."
"Users will have to designate each [application] as trusted the first time they run them," Howe explains, "[but] it's a small one-time price for a more secure system. And it's better to start now than waiting until there are 100 or 200 million Leopard computers in the field."
"It's nice to see Apple not only talk about platform security, but to actually do something about it. And the fact that the millions of iPhones in the world will be both 1) open and 2) secure because they use the same secure foundation says volumes about their bright future," Howe writes. "Nice work, Apple."
and oh yah...
Apple’s Mac OS X Leopard education price is $69
Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 02:16 PM EDT
For students, Apple's Mac OS X Leopard "will still be available for a deeper discount at school bookstores (usually around $69)," Scott McNulty reports for TUAW.
But, not online at the Apple Store, where the price will be US$116.
"The most obvious reason for this move is that Apple has no real way of knowing if you are, in fact, associated with an educational institution when you order online," McNulty reports. "Most school bookstores require you to produce a school ID in order to make purchases of academically priced software, so Apple can be assured that you are, in fact, a poor student and not just cheap."
Next thing you know it will run windows apps nativly.
Bromine group slams Greenpeace iPhone report
Apple has done nothing wrong and the iPhone is within existing environmental legislation, says Bromine organisation
Jonny Evans
A chemical industry group has lashed out against Greenpeace, condemning the environmental lobby group for making unfair criticism of Apple's iPhone's green credentials.
Greenpeace last week released an analysis of the iPhone, in which it claims the product contains a range of potentially dangerous chemicals.
The Bromine Science and Environmental Forum BSEF), the international organisation of the bromine chemical industry, points out that none of the substances Greenpeace is criticising Apple for deploying in the device are banned under existing environmental law.
"All the substances reported by Greenpeace are approved for use, and provide critical performance and safety functions in a wide range of electronic products," the organisation countered.
The bromine chemical industry trade body points out that the brominated flame retardants used in the iPhone are commonly used in electronics products from all manufactuers, as they provide a high level of fire safety - essential in an age in which computer batteries randomly catch fire.
Greenpeace's biggest sin, according to the chemical industry organisation, is to have sensationalised its findings.
"The Greenpeace report does not say which brominated flame retardants are present in the iPhone because it does not know," the organisation says. "Therefore, the report speculates about what substances might be present, and raises an alarm without any basis for doing so."
The rebuttal continues to explain that - even according to Greenpeace's own study - the iPhone complies with all existing EU regulatory requirements.
It adds: "The brominated flame retardant most likely used in the iPhone is actually a reactive – it reacts with other substances to form a plastic and, once reacted, it is also no longer available to the environment. The Greenpeace report is incorrect in its assertions about the potential for releases to the environment."
The rebuttal also slams Greenpeace because its iPhone criticism ignored the requirement under recent EU law for manufacturers to take responsibility for the disposal of printed circuit boards, and railroads the environmental group for failing to offer a constructive alternative to brominated flame retardants for electronic devices.
Naturally, the chemical company trade body is protecting its own vested interests, but claims that its remit is "to ensure that the best available scientific information is used when addressing" issues concerning bromine.
BSEF members include Albemarle Corporation, ICL Industrial Products, Chemtura and Tosoh Corporation.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=19446&pagtype=allchandate
macs are for college freshmen who buy the thing because (he she friend) has it and its awesome. then a few months later realize its not compatible with much software hardware that there college is using...
only cool thing macs can do are cause people to buy junk, hype, and thats about it. hell take a look at the iphone, 500 bux for a touchscreen phone. theres been touchscreen pda phones out for a few years now. people are just buying it cause its the almighty iphone. @!#$ apple, go buy a damn openmoko touchscreen phone, its opensource, gps applicable, and based on linux.... so anything that runs on linux can run on the phone, it even has more damn space then the ihype, i mean iphone. they even give you the damn tools to open the thing up...
anything beats a mac, anyday.
and im an is technician at my local hospital, so yeah i know all about the damn macs.
Magnaflow Muffler in Classifieds... New In Box
Quote:
"Apple has announced plans to add code-scrambling diversity to Mac OS X Leopard, a move aimed at making the operating system more resilient to virus and worm attacks. The security technology, known as ASLR (address space layout randomization), randomly arranges the positions of key data areas to prevent malware authors from predicting target addresses.
It also tends to drag performance way the f**k down. It's the reason USDOD, FBI's digital infrastructure group and MI-5 (HM Intelligence Service) abandoned the technology about 8-9 years ago. Unless Apple has somehow streamlined the randomization process and address latching (basically assigning the memory space to process X, and then the Kernel re-assigns it and catalogues where process X's new memory range), you'll see this technology become something you disable.
BTW, Vista, and several flavours of Linux have been using a streamlined version of this for a while: it's not perfect, but if you want a hardened system, use it. So... Jaguar is behind the curve.
Quote:
Another new feature coming in Leopard is Sandboxing (systrace), which limits an application's access to the system by enforcing access policies for system calls."
Another Vista feature... Well, a Virtual Machine feature. Nothing new.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Okay, first, ASLR isn't new or revolutionary, and it's been implemented properly since its inception because if it wasn't, the OS would cease to function at all. ASLR bogs down the Processor because it's up to the processor to re-order the stack, even still, there has to be a piece of the stack that's stable so the processor can find out where something is located.
I cannot imagine a robust implementation of ASLR not consuming more processor time than it's worth. It's part of the reason you have to include it in your Linux Kernel when you compile it, it's not added by default (as I remember). You cannot tell me with any kind of certainty that USDOD et al. are incapable of incorporating something like that properly with a straight face, it's been done independently by several groups with much wider and deeper resources.. Apple is either using a less robust implementation to retain speed, or is risking bogging the processors with the memory swapping. As well, sand-boxing is a staple of windows NT SP4/2000. Again, Apple is about 8 years back of that curve.
Either way, if Apple is the most valuable stock on the street it's because they're not splitting their stocks, not because of intrinsic value... The last Apple Split was in 2005 just in case you were wondering. Also, Apple's got a lot less common/preferred stocks than intel and IBM (The comparisons aren't really fair either, IBM doesn't produce computers anymore, that's Lenovo under contract, and IBM makes more off of services and parts annually as well).
BTW: The article you linked to about Apple being the most valuable computer maker in the world... there's more:
Quote:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/23/how-apple-can-keep-its-value/
Apple, interestingly, has something in common with these other companies. They all draw their power from software. Microsoft sells software in a box. Google delivers software online. Cisco, like Apple, delivers software embedded in devices, which it largely contracts to others to make.
But there is a key difference, too. The other three have established dominant positions in their markets, which fends off rivals and keeps margins high.
Apple is a distant No. 3 in PCs. It dominates personal music players, but it has a much more modest share if you define the consumer electronics market more broadly.
Basically,
Apple has been viewed as overvalued since 2005/6 (since the last split). It's valued high, but whether or not it stays that way is up in the air... they're not as diversified as IBM or Dell (*who make a major portion of their revenues on services) and rely heavily on iterative product releases to make money (ie: iPods, MacBooks, Mac Desktops, etc.). If they have a new unit fall flat, you'll see the bottom fall out of their stock price, as proof of that I need only point at the Newton... Somewhat innovative, but ultimately useless (US Robotics Palm was on the market and had a better interface, and character recognition).
It might also be a worthwhile idea to read the entire text of the links you post to make sure you're not shooting yourself in the foot.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Yeah.. great... I'll put BSD on and skin it instead, dump the device dependence.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
.... I'll just be able to learn and us everything and not pigeon hole myself out of a job because I blindly followed an operating system without realizing, it isn't the OS, it's the software and people who use it that make it important.
Cable wrote:
Kinda begs the reverse question of "the point" that they are trying to make... If Microsoft is so bad, then why the need to use bootcamp and run XP etc? Isn't the point to "keep micro$haft off my computer" etc etc?
And what is the real difference between running OSX on a PC(as illlustated in the comic above) or runnning XP on a MAC? The only difference I can think of is that you have more hardware options on a PC and probably spent-less-got-more as it where.
Of course I have no interest in either of the above options.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
Well since we are posting pics
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Yeah.. great... I'll put BSD on and skin it instead, dump the device dependence.
oh c'mon
OSX is based on a BSD UNIX core... AND ITS UNIX CERTIFIED! - OSX can do MORE than ANY other unix platform.
Emor8t wrote:.... I'll just be able to learn and us everything and not pigeon hole myself out of a job because I blindly followed an operating system without realizing, it isn't the OS, it's the software and people who use it that make it important.
Welcome to my world!
Bastardking3000 wrote:Cable wrote:
Kinda begs the reverse question of "the point" that they are trying to make... If Microsoft is so bad, then why the need to use bootcamp and run XP etc? Isn't the point to "keep micro$haft off my computer" etc etc?
And what is the real difference between running OSX on a PC(as illlustated in the comic above) or runnning XP on a MAC? The only difference I can think of is that you have more hardware options on a PC and probably spent-less-got-more as it where.
Of course I have no interest in either of the above options.
alas.. the world is NOT perfect... but OSX is as close to it as we have for a mainstream OS.. so I us an Apple Computer. hehe
e·lit·ism /ɪˈlitɪzəm, eɪˈli-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-lee-tiz-uhm, ey-lee-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. practice of or belief in rule by an elite.
2. consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.
Cable wrote:GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Yeah.. great... I'll put BSD on and skin it instead, dump the device dependence.
oh c'mon
OSX is based on a BSD UNIX core... AND ITS UNIX CERTIFIED! - OSX can do MORE than ANY other unix platform.
When OSX runs a Beowulf Cluster out of the box, I'll be impressed. If you're talking out of the box, sure, OSX can do that but only on a MAC. I reassert my previous statement. Considering you can get X and make it look and more or less work the same as OSX, let's not equivocate. You're singing BSD's praises (by the way, all the new features you listed earlier are part and parcel of the available BSD Kernel, and you can turn them off if you don't want to take the performance/stability hit.
Quote:
Bastardking3000 wrote:Cable wrote:
Kinda begs the reverse question of "the point" that they are trying to make... If Microsoft is so bad, then why the need to use bootcamp and run XP etc? Isn't the point to "keep micro$haft off my computer" etc etc?
And what is the real difference between running OSX on a PC(as illlustated in the comic above) or runnning XP on a MAC? The only difference I can think of is that you have more hardware options on a PC and probably spent-less-got-more as it where.
Of course I have no interest in either of the above options.
alas.. the world is NOT perfect... but OSX is as close to it as we have for a mainstream OS.. so I us an Apple Computer. hehe
e·lit·ism /ɪˈlitɪzəm, eɪˈli-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-lee-tiz-uhm, ey-lee-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. practice of or belief in rule by an elite.
2. consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.
hu·bris /ˈhyubrɪs, ˈhu-/ [hyoo-bris, hoo-]
–noun
excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.
pre·ten·tious /prɪˈtɛnʃəs/[pri-ten-shuhs]
–adjective
1. full of pretense or pretension.
2. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance.
3. making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I think we have all argued over this enough so for the most part, ill let the rest of you do the talking, however, this made me laugh...
Quote:
And as far as any other smart phone / PDA coming even remotely close to the iphone..... thats funny... really... funny...
Keep showing that you suck Jobs off every night. That is such a @!#$ stupid statement.
I can think of a few phones better than the I phone. Maybe not to you, but to alot of users, the I phone sucks ass.
If I wanted an I phone, id switch over and get it. However, i like the phone I have coming to me, and its why I chose it. I have played with the i phone everyday for about the last 3 weeks. Impressed? I guess, i mean its a neat little phone, but whats so special about it. To me theres more cons than there are pro's. My buddy who just had to have it, is a walking advertisement to not buy one...
I love the commerical where the guy is like I used to have to carry around a camera, MP3 Player, cell phone, PDA, Anal Vibrator, Ect. but now i have an i Phone, it replaces all that. I mean Apple Acts like they invented this idea of an phone that takes pictures, Plays music, and gets e-mail.
A converged device will never be as good at any individual task than a purpose built device: doubly for portable devices.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
x86_64 Linux FTW
We've got all the stability, performance and transparency of a Unix derived operating system just like you Mac guys.
Except we get to run it on a wide array of standardized, super-cheap, high-powered PC hardware.
2002 Cavalier 2200 5spd
I saw a couple articles that caught my attention.
MACs for the Army
MAC vs PC on vulnerabilities
I wonder what cable will do about those articles. Probably just not read them or perhaps dish out some amazing spin for them. Someone with those kinda truth-spinning talents should be working as the white house spokesperson.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
Zeus; "Rise from your grave!"
Bastardking3000 wrote:I saw a couple articles that caught my attention.
MACs for the Army
MAC vs PC on vulnerabilities
I wonder what cable will do about those articles. Probably just not read them or perhaps dish out some amazing spin for them. Someone with those kinda truth-spinning talents should be working as the white house spokesperson.
The military is quietly working to integrate Macintosh computers into its systems to make them harder to hack.
nice read.
and that article about vulnerabilities is HILARIOUS! HILARIOUS!!
Cable wrote:Zeus; "Rise from your grave!"
Bastardking3000 wrote:I saw a couple articles that caught my attention.
MACs for the Army
MAC vs PC on vulnerabilities
I wonder what cable will do about those articles. Probably just not read them or perhaps dish out some amazing spin for them. Someone with those kinda truth-spinning talents should be working as the white house spokesperson.
The military is quietly working to integrate Macintosh computers into its systems to make them harder to hack.
nice read.
and that article about vulnerabilities is HILARIOUS! HILARIOUS!!
The Military hasn't brought much weight to the Apple program. If it was that interested in buying into Apple, you'd see procurement contracts left and right.
And the Vulnerabilities article has individual instances.
http://www.digwin.com/view/mac-versus-windows-vulnerability-stats-for-2007 <-- Just a sample.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Click on any of the examples.. you will find nearly all of them are for 10.4.x, and older OSes, and not only that most exploits are software exploits that effect multiple linux/unix distros.. that comes down to if you are running a server PATCH YOUR SOFTWARE OR RUN GOOD SH*T!
"Most Unix/Linux systems include multiple standard services in their default installation. Mac OS X often suffers from the same vulnerabilities as Unix systems, since it is based on Unix. Unnecessary services should be disabled, and all servers facing open networks should be protected by a firewall.
For services which provide remote login and/or remote service, traffic cannot be simply blocked by firewalls. Buffer overflow vulnerabilities and flaws in authentication functions can often allow a vector for arbitrary code execution, sometimes with administrative privileges, so gathering vulnerability information and patching rapidly are very important. Every year, buffer overflow vulnerabilities in Unix/Linux services are found. "
To look at the real world history stats, and stats from the PRESENT you will see that OSX is thousands of times safer as a server OR workstation.
"One problem with this, say observers, is that Secunia itself includes a warning on its website, advising people not to use its statistics to compare products against each other."
"Another claimed issue is that even flaws which are listed as critical are not necessarily more likely to occur. Mac OS X, for example, was at one point cited as having a tcpdump vulnerability, but many users may have never had to approach the application. Conversely, a DirectX opening in Windows Vista could have been exposed with a WAV or AVI file, something much more likely for the average user."
"Another claimed issue is that even flaws which are listed as critical are not necessarily more likely to occur. Mac OS X, for example, was at one point cited as having a tcpdump vulnerability, but many users may have never had to approach the application. Conversely, a DirectX opening in Windows Vista could have been exposed with a WAV or AVI file, something much more likely for the average user."
"Moreover, categories for the operating systems analyzed are said to have been biased. Only XP Pro and Vista were counted on the Windows side, whereas all versions of Mac OS X were factored in, including server editions. There are also said to be a number of warnings mislabeled by Ou, ones which either affected all operating systems, third-party software, or Apple programs running on Windows or the iPhone. It is suggested that if all factors were properly weighed, a user of Mac OS X Tiger or Leopard would likely encounter far fewer risks than someone using Windows XP, and possibly Vista."
macbook air is the biggest pile of @!#$ ever
Nick, do me a favor and post your article source.
Cable wrote:Click on any of the examples.. you will find nearly all of them are for 10.4.x, and older OSes, and not only that most exploits are software exploits that effect multiple linux/unix distros.. that comes down to if you are running a server PATCH YOUR SOFTWARE OR RUN GOOD SH*T!
Sounds JUST like Wind... oh.. Nm.
BTW, There's a reason older versions were included in there, it's because Apple hasn't upped their version #, Where 2000/XP/Vista and their server versions are basically separate versions from each other.
Quote:
"Most Unix/Linux systems include multiple standard services in their default installation. Mac OS X often suffers from the same vulnerabilities as Unix systems, since it is based on Unix. Unnecessary services should be disabled, and all servers facing open networks should be protected by a firewall.
Server Hardening 101: Apple needs to do the same thing as Windows-based servers.
Quote:
For services which provide remote login and/or remote service, traffic cannot be simply blocked by firewalls. Buffer overflow vulnerabilities and flaws in authentication functions can often allow a vector for arbitrary code execution, sometimes with administrative privileges, so gathering vulnerability information and patching rapidly are very important. Every year, buffer overflow vulnerabilities in Unix/Linux services are found. "
Same thing as Windows, however, windows overflows usually trip a GPF and lock the server.
Quote:
To look at the real world history stats, and stats from the PRESENT you will see that OSX is thousands of times safer as a server OR workstation.
Seems to me that OSX Leopard is still version 10 of the macOS... Even new patches (and major version revisions that you have to pay for, unlike Windows where you're paying for major code-rewrites for better or worse) bring along new vulnerabilities.
Quote:
"One problem with this, say observers, is that Secunia itself includes a warning on its website, advising people not to use its statistics to compare products against each other."
"Another claimed issue is that even flaws which are listed as critical are not necessarily more likely to occur. Mac OS X, for example, was at one point cited as having a tcpdump vulnerability, but many users may have never had to approach the application. Conversely, a DirectX opening in Windows Vista could have been exposed with a WAV or AVI file, something much more likely for the average user."
First point: that's a disclaimer to protect itself from one of the historically most litigious companies in history.
Second point, just because it isn't very commonly used doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it's there, and the server/workstation is not hardened, it's vulnerable. How many people do you know that open up their macbook box and start turning off widgets?
BTW, you posted the same paragraph twice, I don't know what you were trying to show there, but I snipped it out.
Quote:
"Moreover, categories for the operating systems analyzed are said to have been biased. Only XP Pro and Vista were counted on the Windows side, whereas all versions of Mac OS X were factored in, including server editions. There are also said to be a number of warnings mislabeled by Ou, ones which either affected all operating systems, third-party software, or Apple programs running on Windows or the iPhone. It is suggested that if all factors were properly weighed, a user of Mac OS X Tiger or Leopard would likely encounter far fewer risks than someone using Windows XP, and possibly Vista."
Actually, if you look, Server/personal/professional editions of XP/Vista have the same kernel release and version #'s with minor kernel patches making up the rest of the number. It's the same OS. Apple uses the same types of plugins just written and compiled for their OS outside of the public domain.
Again, I'd like to see the article source please.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
