Zeke, Live a little is one thing but to fall for such obvious crap is another! And like I told Gam long ago if you can show real honest to God proof and its not made up or hearsay
then sure I'll consider changing my thoughts on what happened. But so far the only thing Gam has been able to prove to me is the DNA was lied about as it could never have been done so fast. Now I take Gam at his word because he is a forensics expert that works for the RCMP ( I hope I got that right Gam ) and why would he lie to me about the amount of time to get a DNA result back? So they lied about that fact, but because
they lied about the DNA that does not make me want to take the giant leap into the world of we blew ourselves up so we could rally support for a war in Afghanistan. That makes no seance at all !! Haliburton and money be damned it just makes no seance !
So unless you guys can give concrete proof , such as Gam and the DNA bit, Then I call
!! Give me proof to prove me wrong and you right and I'll shut the hell up and offer
up an apology to everyone who thinks as you do. But till then
!!
All of what you guys have dug so hard to come up with is utter
!! Now that said since your the ones going against common knowledge and conventional wisdom the matter of proof rest squarly with you. So go on prove your right.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
It wasn't the time to get the results back that was the problem. It was the concept that DNA survived a fire that an airframe did not. If the aircraft was "vapourized" from the heat of the blast, there's no way that the bulk of the "victoms" were ID'd by DNA.
Jack, I have a problem with your memory.
PAX
HAHA, The planes wreckage was pulled from the basement remember the pics? And Gam said DNA could have been collected I'm not an expert in that field Gam would be the one to ask that question to.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Where's you're proof that it was a terroristic act? The "confession" of Osama. Of course, I mean the Arab guy caught on video saying who in the hell knows what.
Or was it the fact they found a passport for an Arab guy which miraculously survived a fire that vaporized an entire "airplane."
Oh yea, and the towers falling sure looked like something that wasn't planned out. /sarcasm
Zeke, Easy your the ones going against what is widely accepted as fact. So because you guys are the ones who choose to say what the world believes is false the burden of proof rests with you. If 95% of the world says 2+2=4 but you swear 2+2=16 then you better be able to prove it. And if you can't be ready for me and countless others to say
!!!
Sorry man but just like innocent till proven guilty you need to prove beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt that what we all witnessed live that day didn't happen the way we saw it.
I'm not being ignorant I'm just explaining why I don't buy into this stuff. Now if you can give me some proof to make me change my mind then fine lets have it and I will by all means apologize to you and say I was completely wrong. I'm man enough to admit my mistakes and make amends.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:Zeke, Easy your the ones going against what is widely accepted as fact. So because you guys are the ones who choose to say what the world believes is false the burden of proof rests with you. If 95% of the world says 2+2=4 but you swear 2+2=16 then you better be able to prove it. And if you can't be ready for me and countless others to say !!!
Sorry man but just like innocent till proven guilty you need to prove beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt that what we all witnessed live that day didn't happen the way we saw it.
I'm not being ignorant I'm just explaining why I don't buy into this stuff. Now if you can give me some proof to make me change my mind then fine lets have it and I will by all means apologize to you and say I was completely wrong. I'm man enough to admit my mistakes and make amends.
But they're not gonna find any proof Jackalope. The government already cleaned it all up.
____________________________________________________________________
Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
I won't say that it was a conspiracy, but i wouldn't put it past the government to off 3000 of it's own citizens to push an agenda.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Jbody2nr wrote:But they're not gonna find any proof Jackalope. The government already cleaned it all up.
Ohhh, Riiiight! My bad!
Keeper, thats a pretty bleek outlook you have there but I'm glad to hear you saying you won't call it a govt. conspiracy.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:Zeke, Easy your the ones going against what is widely accepted as fact. So because you guys are the ones who choose to say what the world believes is false the burden of proof rests with you. If 95% of the world says 2+2=4 but you swear 2+2=16 then you better be able to prove it. And if you can't be ready for me and countless others to say !!!.
Ohhhhh! So because it's widely accepted its fact? Damn, I must have missed the memo.
Let the blind masses be lead by the corrupt government, hopefully right off a cliff.
Um, Yeah ok. Look don't get upset because you can't proove your version of history and I can. I said I'd be man enough to admit my mistakes and apologize for doubting you but I see I shouldn't expect the same. Thats a shame as I thought more of you then that.
I just hope whatever you believe in that it makes you happy as apparently the truth can't.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
JuggaloZeke wrote:Jackalope wrote:Zeke, Easy your the ones going against what is widely accepted as fact. So because you guys are the ones who choose to say what the world believes is false the burden of proof rests with you. If 95% of the world says 2+2=4 but you swear 2+2=16 then you better be able to prove it. And if you can't be ready for me and countless others to say !!!.
Ohhhhh! So because it's widely accepted its fact? Damn, I must have missed the memo.
Let the blind masses be lead by the corrupt government, hopefully right off a cliff.
Wasnt that long ago 95% of the population said (insisted even, on pain of death) that the world was flat.
Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
Hahahaha & Jack: DNA might have survived, but it's not likely that Nuclear DNA from all victims would have been catalogued (with the exception of the Military victims). Either way, DNA is functionally useless after the body's core temp exceeds 100 Degrees celsius . Given that the airframe vaporised, de-materialised, or was warped beyond belief, DNA matching on that scale would have had to have been done with Mitchondreal DNA, and that would have taken a LOT of time and resources. I'm not saying it's not possible to have done that, but, I am saying more improbable than possible.
JAck: the problem with the official story (and I call it that because it's got the consistency of a story), is that it just doesn't jive with the evidence that is available. The bigger crime of the matter is that the evidence has been systematically destroyed under the premise that "we need to move on." Stored evidence has freed people years after their conviction, but in this case we'll probably never know the truth because of a concerted effort by those that stand to and have in fact profited by these actions.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
ok, lets just play along and say you were right, say the governemnt of the most powerful nation on earth murdered 3000 of its own people.....why? why would they do it? theres no good reason! to further an ajenda?? what ajenda, the war in iraq was started about WMD, not 9/11, and we were already hunting for osama in afghanistan before 9/11, just not on such a big scale. so to what greater good would the government have in killing us? they'd have no gain, so they wouldn't. but terrorists would have a lot to gain by killing us
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Mike:
First off, the US gov't knew the day before Pearl Harbor was attacked that there was going to be an attack in the Pacific. They did nothing, and let half the pacific fleet sink along with the men aboard. That was in furtherance of helping Britain, France and Russia against a common enemy: Germany.
The current administration has several people (Dick Cheney, Carl Rove) that authored The New American Century, which is basically a jingo-profiteer's manifesto wherein they espouse the use of war, military action, and every means possible in pursuit of not only American Empire, but, in pursuit of profits and spoils for those corporations who are most responsible for American fortunes (ie Oil Companies).
The terrorists have nothing to gain by killing Americans on American soil except the ire of Americans and the brute iron fist crashing down on themselves. True, some think that it's a way to heaven, but those that are not so radical and blind realise there's nothing to be gained by getting slaughtered, that way, they and their families pay for this. Most of the upper leadership are not as radicalised and crazy as you've been led to believe, they're daring, cunning, but they're also pragmatic... they have no problem rattling sabres because they're getting a lot out of the action as well (Don't forget that the PUT options on the airlines and Boeing were bought by not only terrorist front companies, but also by several other companies in the US in unusually large numbers ).
The other thing: you're assuming that the aircraft that hit the WTC and Pentagon were loaded with people... I don't assume anything.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Motive?
Money, money, money, money, and oil.
Secure the resource, secure the land the pielines will be built on. Secure apathy for war, over spending and a loss of freedom.
PAX
Guys you've watched too many "B" movies on late nights. Gam is the only one of you so far to produce anything that can be called proof and that ends at the DNA issue. As I explained to Gam I believe him that they lied about the DNA and I also offered a much more plausable answer then Bush is trying to take over the world. And thats that they were under presure to positively ID the passengers and rather then complete the DNA testing they simply went off a passenger manifest since they knew who was on it and what plane it was.
Gam, If no people were on the planes then where did the govt put them all? Why are all the families of the victims lying? That makes no seance at all !!
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
You are talking about governments and nations that do this type of thing:
http://%20www.arcticbeacon.com/13-Apr-2006.html
Disposing of a few hundred to them is like changing socks to normal people.
Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
we are all just a big reality tv show in space... it was the aliens that did it
^ ^ ^ ^ Thats more believeable then the non-seance being spouted off around here as of late.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:Guys you've watched too many "B" movies on late nights. Gam is the only one of you so far to produce anything that can be called proof and that ends at the DNA issue. As I explained to Gam I believe him that they lied about the DNA and I also offered a much more plausable answer then Bush is trying to take over the world. And thats that they were under presure to positively ID the passengers and rather then complete the DNA testing they simply went off a passenger manifest since they knew who was on it and what plane it was.
Gam, If no people were on the planes then where did the govt put them all? Why are all the families of the victims lying? That makes no seance at all !!
Either they didn't exist in the first place (ie. Cadavers), or, they were sacrificed... The reason I say this is because the person that allegedly flew the 757 was so poor at piloting, flight schools refused to check him out for instruments in order to rent a plane. This guy that flunked the Instruments exam, magically 2 months later (with no flight time) becomes daredevil enough to pull a 170 degree turn (one which would make most regular passenger flights stall out) inside a radius that was what fighter would be able to do handily, and then line up on the Pentagon? I'm not buying that.
The DNA bits are suspect at best (within 1 month IDing a little over 100 aircraft victims where the Aluminum airframe vaporised, but there was DNA enough to ID everyone?)...
Jack: I'm going to but it this way: 1 screw up, that's life. 2 screw ups, it happens. 3 screw ups = enemy action. Would you trust a mechanic that fouled up the firing sequence, neglected to torque down the head bolts, and didn't adjust the carburator jetting... enough to have a repeat visit?
At best, I see utter incompetance, and at worst, I see a very long and wide trail that starts with bloodshed, and ends with a few people making a LOT of money.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM Im not discrediting you but dont you think there are people in the goverment who know alot more about forensics than you. People who would have known what would and wouldnt work as a lie.
Dont you think there are alot better Forensic Invesitgators out there that arent in the govertment that all would have came forward and said thats impossible?
So where did all the people go Gam? Thats a pretty interesting theroy but it doesn't explain where they all went. In short it doesn't hold water.
Like I said Gam, your proof that you gave as to DNA was indeed lyed about is the only proof suppiled thus far and the only proof that is believeable because it is a fact. The rest so far have been fantasy at best and slanderous at worst. To suggest a govt lie is one thing and is completely believeable but to accuse the govt of mass murder with no proof is indeed rediculous. It would be the same if my car got stolen and I blamed you thru some odd twist or spin on reality. The police and the courts system would laugh at that much as I laugh at the twisted spin on reality that some people here have tried to pass off as fact.
Gam remember there were more then one hi-jacker on the planes so whos to say who flew it and who didn't. Bad example of why it couldn't have happened the way we saw it happen.
And as we've agreed upon before due to the shear level of distruction there is no way every neuance and detail can be known. No way ! I said before that you are correct that alot of things just don't add up but that doesn't mean it was a sinister govt act to take us to war. I don't buy it sorry. And untill any of you can provide the level of non disputable evidence such as with the DNA being false then I never will either. Give me the kind of proof a states attorney would need to go to trial Gam and if its fact then I'll begin to believe it. But if you don't have the level of proof needed for a conviction then stop trying to convince me thru circumstantial evidence. This should be something your familer with Gam since its right up your alley. No proof, No way to go to trial. Go get me some proof and I'll start believeing.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
GAM works in forensics, he is one of those experts who is coming forward and saying it's implausable (not impossible, but close to it).
Besides, you guys wouldn't listen... When UL employees came forward stating emphaticly that the steel would not soften due to a kerosine fire nobody would listen. I don't expect any better from you guys on this issue either. When the firefighters came forward saying there were ground level blasts and that the fires were under control, you wouldn't listen. etc etc etc.. It seems that expert opinion is of no value unless it agrees with the official story.
PAX
Roscoe: I have no doubt about that... None whatsoever. However, if the oxidisation point of bone is 1500 degrees farenheit, and the oxidisation point of aluminum is over 3000 degrees farenheit (oxidisation=vaporisation point) you don't have to be much of a scientist to know that the chances of getting DNA (either Mitochondrial or Nuclear DNA) are about as good as seeing pigs fly.
There are forensic investigators that have come forward and said quite blatantly that the gov't story is a real pant-load, and they've had their AAFS and other credentials suspended. As a professional in Forensics, you live and die by your creds, and most of the people that have come forward are not attached to a police department... anyone that was would be committing Career Suicide.
Lest I forget, Mine are still in tact. But, I do not have DNA accreditation... however that doesn't stop me from knowing enough that the time frame to amplify and recombinate mDNA for is about 2-3 months, and the release that all victims were identified using DNA was released in October of 2001.
It also doesn't defeat the fact that mDNA and nDNA are functionally useless after body core temperatures reach 500 degrees farenheit, because that literally cooks the strands into uselessness. It's the same reason that the whole Jurassic Park scenario (ie, cloning from dinosaur remains. I know, the story hinges on cloning from dinosaur blood in a fossilised mosquito, that's just next to impossible) is pretty much impossible.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
