Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do? - Page 4 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Monday, April 24, 2006 11:04 AM on j-body.org
Fair enough HAHA. Fair enough.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.




Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Monday, April 24, 2006 11:51 AM on j-body.org
Hahahaha wrote:Sunbird, If you are going to rant, get your facts straight.. Let's start with 1776 (not 1796), and in fact it should be more like 1767 or so, when the fire was lit, not when it was done burning.

Jack, I didn't mean to imply that you had defamed our fallen, but that you were getting close. If you are talking about defending Canada's interests, the last time we did that was WWII, unless Korea was "in our best interest".. I would despute that. At any rate, the last time we actually needed to go and fight, we did it well, and en-mass.

Now, let's try to be fair to our current military, after all, we did win Top Gun again last year

Yes, it is small, but it is well trained and I doubt that aside from the major powers in the world (US, China, UK, Russia) anyone could successfully take us over. Who could? Italy? Belgium? Attacked by the massive Sweedish military? My point being that we look small (militarily) because you guys are so absolutely huge. For a country of our population, we have a well trained, well armed (mostly) and appropriately sized armed force. We do need to expand our militay though because we do want to maintain our relationship with the US.

I just wish the US would stop dragging us into resource wars. Let's face it, that's the only wars being fought right now.

PAX


Simple typo HAHA. I've been using computers for at least 15 years and still type with the hunt and peck method. Its not likley to ever change.




Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:37 PM on j-body.org
One thing I wanted to elaborate on... ever since Korea, the U.S. military has been tip-toeing all pussyfooted in every war since the 50's. In Vietnam we initially couldn't escalate the war because of China and Russia but even when thousands of GI's died, the U.S. never stepped it up. We held back bombing North Vietnam, the Ho Chi Mihn Trail, and villages and gave the Commies perfect opportunities to infiltrate and take over the South... now we have these "police actions", which have all been handled half-assed, including the first Gulf War when Bush Sr. didn't go after Saddam back then. It's like we have the mentality of "if we don't win in weeks, then we will not try and win" Yes the initial offensive does what is expected (Taliban defeated, Kuwait liberated, Saddam ousted) but then we sit back and chill before it is really done. We have such trouble with itsy bitsy nations and their guerilla wars... we cant seal the deal.

The thing I want to ask is why the American people became such "pussies" when it comes to war? We sustained tons of casualties in WW2 and bombed the crap out of our enemies and the whole nation was behind us. We understood that this was needed to win a war. Now, when we lose minimal troops or kill a child everyone gets all pissed off. Yes, we shouldn't be in most of our wars, but if you want to get popular opinion, JUST GET IT DONE! Go into Iraq and get Saddam in 91, go into Afghanistan and bomb the piss outta of them until we get Osama (what the hell send 300K soldiers in there and he cant hide), and wiat till you finish ONE DAMN WAR before you start another... if you finish a war like you should with a positive result, then the civilians will back you... stupid Bush is walking into war after war without finishing the ones he starts!




Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:13 AM on j-body.org
We have become a nation of "I WANT IT NOW" people, No one knows pationts anymore.
We think war is supposed to be fast and we'll always win every battle. The truth is war takes time, money, and lives, The cost of war is very high. Its like now with this crap about no exit plan for Iraq, Um we never had one for Japan after WW II ! In fact we were in Japan for years after the war was over re-building the country and introduceing democracy to them. And just look how well thats turned out in the past 60 years after the war. But no exit stragity there.

So to everyone bitching about the war shut up and learn to wait! It will work!





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:43 AM on j-body.org
Whats got the world riled about iraq SPITfire is the back-ground and the obvious setup involved, Most morons walking the continent today have niether the attention span nor the memory to recall that Sadamn was an ammerican funded and backed asset. He invaded kuwait in 91 with tactic american consent over the issue of slant-drilling and theft of his countries oil. He did NOT gas the kurds, that was an proven action of Iran during the iran -Iraq war.

This go-around, he had nothing to do with 9-11, the 1st excuse was WMD's. Then it became compliance with US/UN demands on his internal affairs (which was proven he WAS in complaince). Then it became he is "evil" and nees to be removed" Then it became some vaugue link to "terrorism".

Jesus freaken christ--we have heard 1/2 dozen wildly varying excuses on why monkey-face wanted to invade iraq and finish his daddy's little spat..

What it REALLY boils down to is Oil and Isreal. The Bush/Cheney complex (no, I'm not giving baby george any credit for that one besides biological ties) wanted controll of Iraq's oil, and the Isreali's wanted a puppet in the region. If you want to dig deeper with the famlial ties, it goes back to the crown of england and the rothschilds empire controlling the globes assets thru proxies.




Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:09 AM on j-body.org
Holy Crap you really are out there aren't you? Didn't kill any Kurds? and I guess Hitler never killed any Jews either right? What planet do you live on cause it damn sure isn't this one.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:05 AM on j-body.org
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1779.htm
--------------------------------

The former CIA official revealed that immediately after the battle the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report that said it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds.

"The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent — that is, a cyanide-based gas — which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time."

-------------------------------

Did Saddam Hussein Gas His Own People?
Reality Checks Needed During War

No doubt, Saddam has mistreated Kurds during his rule. But it's misleading to say, so simply and without context, that he killed his own people by gassing 5,000 Kurds at Halabja.
Other Articles Related To This Topic

by Don Sellar
March 1, 2003 by the Toronto Star



Halabja (pop. 80,000) is a small Kurdish city in northern Iraq. On Wednesday, the Star reminded readers that Saddam Hussein's Iraqi army killed 5,000 Kurds in a 1988 chemical weapons attack on Halabja near the end of a bloody, eight-year war with Iran.

The statement that Saddam was responsible for gassing the Kurds — his own people — was straightforward.

Indeed, U.S. President George W. Bush has used similar language about the disaster at Halabja in making a case for a military strike to oust Saddam.

Yet the Star also reported, in a Jan. 31 Opinion page column, that there's reason to believe the story about Saddam "gassing his own people" at Halabja may not even be true.

Curious about those contradictory reports, and prodded by Star reader Bill Hynes, the ombud decided to examine how this paper covered the Halabja story 15 years ago, when Washington was tilting toward Saddam's side in the Iran-Iraq war.

The Star's early coverage was skimpy. I found no breaking news story about the March 16, 1988 gas attack on the city.

But four days later, a Reuters News Agency dispatch (filed from Cyprus) said Kurds, fighting on the Iranian side, had managed to seize Halabja and nearby villages "where Iran has accused Iraq of using chemical weapons against Kurds."

Two days later, Reuters reported, Iran was alleging that 5,000 Kurds were killed by chemical bombs dropped on Halabja by the Iraqi Air Force.

Iranian officials put injured Iraqi civilians on display to back up their charges. An Iranian doctor said mustard gas and "some agent causing long-term damage" had been deployed.

Burn victim Ahmad Karim, 58, a street vendor from Halabja, told a reporter: "We saw the (Iraqi) planes come and use chemical bombs. I smelled something like insecticide."

Two weeks later, the fog of war over Halabja thickened a little when the Star ran a Reuters story saying a United Nations team had examined Iraqi and Iranian civilians who had been victims of mustard gas and nerve gas.

"But the two-man team did not say how or by whom the weapons had been used," the Reuters story said.

It explained that Iraq and Iran were accusing each other of using poison gas in violation of the 1925 Geneva Protocol against chemical weapons.

In September, 1988, the Star quoted an unnamed U.N. official as saying the Security Council chose to condemn the use of gas in the Iran-Iraq war rather than finger Iraq, generally believed to have lost the war with Iran.

The same story said Iraq's claims that Iran also had used chemical weapons "have not been verified."

Buried in that story by freelancer Trevor Rowe was an intriguing piece of information. Rowe reported the Iraqi forces had attacked Halabja when it "was occupied by Iranian troops. Five thousand Kurdish civilians were reportedly killed."

Let's fast-forward to Jan. 31 of this year, when The New York Times published an opinion piece by Stephen C. Pelletiere, the CIA's senior political analyst on Iraq during the 1980s.

In the article, Pelletiere said the only thing known for certain was that "Kurds were bombarded with poison gas that day at Halabja. We cannot say with any certainty that Iraqi chemical weapons killed the Kurds."

Pelletiere said the gassing occurred during a battle between Iraqis and Iranians.

"Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town ... The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target," he wrote.

The former CIA official revealed that immediately after the battle the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report that said it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds.

Both sides used gas at Halabja, Pelletiere suggested.

"The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent — that is, a cyanide-based gas — which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time."

"A War Crime Or an Act of War?" was the way The Times' headline writer neatly summed up Pelletiere's argument.

No doubt, Saddam has mistreated Kurds during his rule. But it's misleading to say, so simply and without context, that he killed his own people by gassing 5,000 Kurds at Halabja.

The fog of war that enveloped the battle at Halabja in 1988 never really lifted. With a new war threatening in Iraq, it's coming back stronger than ever.

Journalists risking their lives to cover an American-led attack on Iraq would face many obvious obstacles in trying to get at the truth.

In light of that, editors need to consider assigning staff back home to do reality checks on claims and counter-claims made in the fog of war.

As our retrospective on the Halabja story suggests, the bang-bang coverage — gripping though it may be — may not be enough to get the job done.

Don Sellar is the Toronto Star's ombudsman.

Copyright 1996-2003. Toronto Star Newspapers Limited




Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:51 AM on j-body.org
Well considering hes currently on trial for the gasing them and the article say as much as it happened then accident or not he still is responcible for it. He used chemical weapons that are outlawed under the Genevia (sp?) convention and he is being tried for that. Killing them intensionaly or unintensionaly he still did so with outlawed weapons that have been proved time and time again that chemical weapons can not be used as a relieable weapon then whats the problem? Oh and so you know yes we at one time supported Saddam and at one time we supported Castro too. But you see when the govt that preceeded these guys was so much worse then they originaly were and they went down hill how is that our fault? If a govt is treating its people so baddly that they beg for our help we give it and then another guy turns out to be just as bad in 10 -20 years then if asked we go back in. Its not hard at all.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:13 AM on j-body.org
I thought he was being tried for killing rebelious people in a different town by using house to house good squads and guns, not gas.

I have often wondered why they DID NOT raise the gassing issue in his trial, I think the above article tells the tale. Nobody is sure who gassed the Kurds, only that it happened.

Of course because the US was backing Iraq at the time, it would make sense that they said Iran did it, regardless of what the truth is.

PAX
Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:25 AM on j-body.org
Your mean the US lie????? G A S P !!!!!! You must be kidding!!! (sarcasm) All I know is his trial is a joke. Hes dead no matter what anyone says, this trial is so Iraq can try and look civilized in the worlds eyes. The truth is that Saddam was a dead man when they found him that hole.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:20 PM on j-body.org
I think there ought to be a spot for the then leaders of those countries that knew of his designs, and what he planned to do...

ie. George W Bush: Mainly because the US kept exporting pre-cursors to Iraq after the attacks on Iran and the Kurds.... right up until the invasion of Kuwait. Afterall... we can't rightly try Reagan... he's dead at the moment.



Why not get serious with Terrorism by going after the principle providers?


Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:53 AM on j-body.org
Um Gam I think you ment George Bush SR. Jr's a nimrod to be sure but that happened before him so you can't throw that on the pile that is his screw ups.






Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:26 PM on j-body.org
life in prison for moussaoui!



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:48 PM on j-body.org
YEAH so he gets to live out his life with a roof over his head and get three squares a day and we get to take car eof him for the rest of his miserable life.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Thursday, May 04, 2006 4:06 AM on j-body.org
He's going to the Colorado SuperMax... 23 hour lockdown, 1 Supervised hour of recreation per day in an indoor fenced roof facility. Limited access to books, televisions behind bullet proof glass (which is usually scratched to hell from what I've read). No windows...

Nice life.

Anyhow Jack: I did mean GHW Bush. I forgot the Herbert part.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:20 AM on j-body.org
Well DC 101 (local radio station) had a CO on this morning that has worked there and he was telling them that they have no tv, no books, the only windows face straight up so they have no view of anything, the rec yard is a 20x20 3 story tall concrete box with a steel grate on the top. The hour out isn't really an hour cause it takes between 10 and 15 min to ready and transport the prisoner to and from so its actualy a half hour. The cells are concrete walls concrete shelf for a seat another concrete shelf for a bed and you get a 1 inch thick foam mattress to sleep on with no blankets. The toilets are concrete made into the walls with no flush handle they auto flush at a random time each day. The showers are in every cell and are controlled by the CO's and are only a small sprayer flush mounted into a recesed spot in the wall.

He said Moussaoui's life will be as close to a liveing hell as the law allows it to be and that the CO's will make sure of this.

I actualy think justice has been served.


CO=Corrections Officer.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Thursday, May 04, 2006 9:03 AM on j-body.org
I don't think they can deprive the prisoner of books, but I may be wrong if there is a special sanction...

Either way.... I had tried to say the concrete box bit. Fun @!#$.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Thursday, May 04, 2006 9:46 AM on j-body.org
Not so much denying them books but rather takeing away all possible ways to make a weapon of any kind. They get to enjoy sitting there rotting away for the rest of their life.

Fitting I'd actualy say.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Thursday, May 04, 2006 11:08 AM on j-body.org
I think a 6 X 6 concrete box with a mud floor, a window the size of the teacup, and a hamster water bottle and trail mix would suit him for the rest of his life. Plus add a convenient septic leak right outside of his cell. We shouldn't spend one taxpayers cent on this scum.




Re: Zarcharias Moussaoui, What should we do?
Friday, May 05, 2006 11:35 AM on j-body.org
The Supermax in Colorado does have windows. His cell, identical to the other cells, has 4" wide x roughly 20" high window that looks out to the interior area of the prison yard. He will be on lockdown except for 90 minutes each day, during that time he will be taken to the fitness area where he may excercise in solitary. He will not come into contact with any other prisoner, either visually or vocally, and will only have contact with guards for a short time each day. He will be provided with a selection of books which he may read, including the Koran, and will also be granted a diet that doesn't include pork, as he is a Muslim. He will als obe supplied with paper to write on, and a soft flexible pen that's nearly impossible to use as a weapon. The entire interior of the cell cell - table, bed, stool, is constructed of concrete, the door, window, and walls are sound proof to prevent contact with anyone. Most prisoners at the facility are allowed 4 or 5 visitors each month, but there is no physical contact, and again, all other prisoners are on lockdown during the visitation. Prisoners are on occasion granted a small b/w TV but I'm not sure on the policy regarding that or other privliges.

I did a study on the facility, along with Reikers and Alcatraz for one of my CJ courses.

Personally, I think a $.39 .40cal Hydrashock would be a better alternative, but that's just me.



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