Let me ask you something, then..
Is it possible for someone to "fix" you to be gay?
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Smokey wrote:More DA than anything.
Another point: Homosexuality, in the context that it was presented, shouldn't be treated like eye color, because it's not a physical trait. It an emotional/mental state, much like ADD or depression, correct? So would that mean it's possible that there is a way out there to "fix" it, much like Prozac for depression.
First: sorry Agustin.. this isn't something I'm going to let go.
Smokey:
In fact, it IS a physical trait. Animals with similar brain traits have been made to be homosexual, and their brain chemistry is the same as homosexual humans.
ADD, depression and other mental ailments are not due simply to hygiene (ie conditioned response), its actually an organic condition. Kids with ADD will likely become adults with ADD (and usually not learn how to cope with it without medication), similarly with depression it's an imbalance of several chemicals that alters your ability to think. While there are some ways for you to affect your brain chemistry without resorting to medication or daily spinal taps... you're not going to have a 100% happy pill.
The prevailing burden of science that I've read states that homosexuality is set while in the womb at about the 3-5th month. In order to *fix* homosexuality, you'd literally have to re-wire the synapses in the brain. We're barely beginning to scratch the tip of the iceberg as far as the sensory portions of the brain are concerned... Assuming you COULD alter the brain that much: would you force someone to undergo it? In that same vein, knowing that homosexuality is not conditioned response, would you also force someone to *Fix* their blackness, eye or hair colour?
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I'm happy with my ADD, thankyouverymuch.
If a man is happy with another man, or a woman is happy with another woman, is it up for a schmuck like me to decide?
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Well, this brings the point about whether or not you could "fix" somebody to have ADD.
Since the prevailing studies show it forms in the 3-5 month area, what other conditions form during this time, and are there any treatments for them?
Just food for thought. I'm not really going to argue the right vs. wrong side. Instead, I'm kind of curious as to finding the source of it.
O noes!
AGuSTiN wrote:GAM,
Curious... given your viewpoint, how do you reconcile that with the rampant homosexuality of past ancient Greece?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece
I reconcile it just fine thanks
It's a good question... Part of me thinks that it was just something that the ancient Greeks used like a hand shake. I don't know how many people back then were truly homosexual, and who was just going along with the supposed predominant social tide, or whether they were setting up for the best greek joke ever:
Q: In Greece, how do you separate the men from the boys?
A: With a crowbar.
I also suspect they were a little more hedonistic as Greek Gods were getting it on with each other, humans and animals.
Smokey:
As of now, it seems to be more or less random hormonal fluctuations. The portions of the brain that control sexual arousal seem to react to the mothers' hormone balance or imbalance. IIRC mice and higher animals like monkeys were born and made to be homosexual after altering the balance of hormones. I don't remember off hand the study, but there were human mothers that had their blood analyzed at different points of their term, and basically had followed their children to more or less adulthood and asked if they were straight, gay or bisexual, and most turned out to be straight to begin with, but of the ones that were gay, the mothers had a slight deviation in their hormone levels.
The animals tested on, it was a little easier to alter their dosages... but to extrapolate the exact point when the brain chemistry alters to define a gay/straight brain isn't precisely known. The 3-5 month rule of thumb is basically a guide because that's when most of the higher functions of the brain begin to develop and structures throughout the body are forming. The reason I remember this: your fingerprints become permanent in the 4th month of pregnancy.
Yes... I'm nerdy that way.
As far as finding the source, it's not really known with any reliable degree of certainty. I'm actually glad you clarified your position btw, it'll make this not turn into the average slogfest that older posts were.
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Still, back to a point i maybe didn't clarify...
I have ADD, and am not only fine with it...I prefer having it. It helps keep me amused when someone that is more boring than watching earthworms humping is giving a presentation.
Thus, and yes, i'm going to get philisophical on you, I don't think it's a disorder, i think the rest of the scalawags in the office, let's say, have underactive minds.
So, i don't think i need to be cured...
So, you take a homosexual, that likes being gay, that enjoys relationships with men...He doesn't see it as a disorder, so why cure him?
Sizzy strikes me as similar (just dealing with two innies rather than outies)...I don't see anything wrong with her...so why "cure" her?
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
The intervention camp thing reminds me...
Watch "But I'm a Cheerleader" - funny @!#$ there lol.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
I've seen it. It's pretty much the truth with drama and comedy. (dromedy? Comma?
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Did anyone see the guy on the Colbert Report talking about gay "characteristics"?
^ It was, from the information the (gay) guy gave it seems a link in finger length and chance of homosexuality leads me to believe their is a genetic cause
Genetic causation hasn't been conclusively linked. Figure there's 4-5 exact clones of mice, and they can 'make' them gay by messing with their brain chemistry in utero.
Take those mice, and breed them but don't mess with their brain chemistry, and they get heterosexual mice. (From what I've read)
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Quote:
Genetic causation hasn't been conclusively linked. Figure there's 4-5 exact clones of mice, and they can 'make' them gay by messing with their brain chemistry in utero.
Take those mice, and breed them but don't mess with their brain chemistry, and they get heterosexual mice. (From what I've read)
I guess genetic isn't what I meant, I just meant..... not a choice (?) or biological reasoning is what i meant
Ahh... Yeah, it's not likely some guys would enjoy taking it up the butt enough to switch teams if they're already straight...
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how about a cure for stupidity?
its called the a-bomb and i think this world needs alot of them to clean up the gene pool
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
The only real cure for stupidity is thought and willingness to question all that you know.
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Good luck getting anyone in the human race to do that...
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Sometimes, you have to start thinking....
I figure I could just buy out TV Stations... but, my ploy to rid the US of whacko religious asswipes is just starting to work.
- Tammy Faye, check.
- Jerry Falwell, bingo...
Next up, Swaggert and Hinn... I want to keep Phelps around for sheer entertainment value.
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^^^Isn't Phelps the "farting preacher"?
But yeah, it's sad that Benny Hinn outlived Benny Hill.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Phelps? He probably farts (although very, very quietly and in private lest it harken the amorous advances of fags), but that's Robert Tilton you're thinking of. He's being kept around for sheer entertainment value as well.
I actually hold Benny Hill in higher respect, he didn't derrive a living from ripping people off. At least he had a sense of humour, and you got to see tits occasionally on his show.
Lest anyone else reading this think I'm a religion hater, I'm not... some evangelicals just rub my fur the wrong way. and I tend to rip the arms off of people that do that.
Yes, I'm a wookie.
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Hey, both me and the lady like Benny hill. It's benny Hinn we can't stand.
And if you're a wookie, let's hear your tarzan yell
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I believe homosexuality use to be classified as a disorder in pyschology. People say it's not so bad because two people consent to it. Well, two people can also consent to drugs, stealing, hurting others and so on. It seems to be proven that some people are inclined to gay tendencies. I don't think this means we say "well they were born that way what is wrong with you in trying to change them." People are born with many disorders such as MS and we do our best to cure them or help them. I think it is the same with homosexuality. The faithful who believe the Bible and see God showing great hate of homosexuality (the sin not the people) try to carry out His call to help what needs to be helped namely what they consider to be another disorder. Homosexuals and others say they are fine and mind your own business, well many alcoholics say the same without realizing the damage they are doing to themselves and others around them. Homosexual acts becomes another of the million temptations that must be resisted before becoming sin. Science has found methods to treat homosexuals with medication and counseling and many can indeed be helped. Some may not be helped, just as some with other disorders are not "cured" but in this case they still aren't to engage in what is considered to be sin. So they would have to at least take up celebacy and try their best to fight temptations that may often arrive from disorders.
There's a reason that Homosexuality WAS classified as a disorder, misunderstanding.
It is not a disease, not insomuch as being black, or having green eyes, or being over 5'9".
Science hasn't found a dejure and clinically approved way to treat Homosexuality because it's not considered a disorder, disease, or condition that is detrimental to the health of the person. What IS detrimental to the health of homosexuals is thinking there's something wrong with them, and making them feel as if they are wrong for being what they are.
The only "science" that has found out how to stop the act of homosexuality is "Christian Science," to say, pseudoscience. There is no consensus on how to treat homosexuality, and the recidivism rate is over 65% and about 30% become celibate but still have homosexual urges... basically it doesn't work (the 4ish percent that report that they are no longer homosexual are in the "treatment" programs as councillors, so it remains unclear whether they are telling the truth about their experience).
I say just leave them alone, they have enough to deal with without adding on to it bigotry and misguided applications of half-baked or utter trash "science."
BTW, no where in the bible is homosexuality considered a sin (it wasn't even covered in the 10 Commandments)... If you want to talk about Leveticus, it's called an abomination, but so is eating lobster or pork... you're considered unclean and may not enter the temple to worship, but you must bathe, be celibate and not enter the temple until after sundown. Read it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:41 PM
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GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
BTW, no where in the bible is homosexuality considered a sin (it wasn't even covered in the 10 Commandments)...
Romans.1
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
There's more, but no point to it, obviously.
Just sayin...
