well, you have to give the Mexican the benefit of the doubt. He proably had no idea that what he was doing was wrong. Forget our laws, most of them don't even try and learn our language! Still, I got some satisfaction at that guy doing that
The flag rule thing goes back to traditions in old warfare when if you fought an enemy ship or captured an enemy ship you flew your flaf above the "vanquished" enemy to show your superiority. Again, I don't think that Mexican knew that...
Orlandomon wrote: i dont think its illegal to fly the mexican flag on its own 
Mexico is an awesome place to do just such!
SPITfire wrote: Forget our laws, most of them don't even try and learn our language!
You're an idiot. BTW, I was in Myrtle Beach last year and two more idiots behind me at a crosswalk were talking @!#$ about me AND my son right behind my back thinking we didn't speak english.
I spoke it better than them. Believe me, they recieved the full brunt of my vocabulary. Hell, I speak better than that whole damn state with their lazy drawl. I should know, they were constantly telling me how they "loved the way I talk".
Further, every Mexican I saw there selling on the boardwalk were all 1) recent immigrants 2) spoke english.
Further more, not to pass the buck but the local black population I could barely understand sometimes.
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I agree with Orlandomon that the vet could have just talked to them first, and informed them that it was against the law. It's highly probable they had no idea, and didn't mean any offense by it. If he spoke to them, and they refused to take it down, then I would say that what he did was justified and even deserved. Although I think that this is just blown out of proportion and it is what it is, I think everybody should just let it go, and next time, they'll know better.
Orlandomon wrote:im gonna fly the U.S., mexican, iranian, and russian flag right next to each other just to piss people off, hopefully ill get some psycho angry enough to come tear it down then I can press charges on him
I don't agree with you on this. This is what I think people are referring to when they say "pick your fights", because if you actually did that you'd be instigating trouble, and deserved whatever you got. Furthermore, if I were a judge, and you happened to do that and some nut case burned your flags or tore them up, and this thread was submitted as evidence, I'd rule the defendant innocent.
Basically, it's illegal, but it's not harming anyone: but you give respect where it's due. Look at it this way: what if someone slapped you directly in your face and spit on you for your troubles, would you just ignore it? Hell no, you'd do something about it.
I don't agree with what this guy did, it's basically destruction of private property... but the substance is a little more important. You're in the USA, you fly the American Flag on top, and then whatever you want. If you're in Canada, Canadian Flag first.
Again: it's simple respect. The people that were flying the flag incorrectly might have been doing that in sheer ignorance, you can just tell them to correct it and more than likely they will. I don't know what was up beyond that, but it seems that it was a tempest in a teapot situation. Someone didn't want to talk or ask a question before he went and did something irrational... it's kinda silly and sad, and could even be racist to boot. I don't know the situation, so whether they had been asked to fix it or not, I don't know.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
im sure he didnt try to talk to them first. he just went and did it, which is what bugs me. has he talked to them first, it would have been a whole different story
Well, I don't know what happened, and if you don't either it's best to not take a firm stand until you do know for certain.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
That is all.
"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"
F'N A plus! go get em, grizzly adams!
i think what he did was acceptable. it got the message across in a very forceful, yet completely harmless manner. beyond a piece of rope, there was no damage. i'll agree that the mexicans probably had no idea what they did was illegal. but i also doubt that a simple "would you please take that flag down...its illegal" comment from some random guy off of the street would have sufficed either.
this guy took a stand for our country and the symbol of our nation. in our PC infested world its good to see something like this.
Quote:
You're an idiot. BTW, I was in Myrtle Beach last year and two more idiots behind me at a crosswalk were talking @!#$ about me AND my son right behind my back thinking we didn't speak english.
wow, and I thought the "mommy and daddy should make more babies" comment was a joke. I should stress that I said MOST in my post. MOST. I have no problem with Hispanics (any nationality) if they are over here legally and are at least trying to learn the language/culture. That would include you. I just have a problem with living in an American city and feeling like a minority.
BUT, the majority of them are not like that. Case in point... when I moved to MB I worked at Lowes. Now they had the bilingual signs and stuff in the aisles. Fine, I know there are alot of Spanish-speaker workers and it helps to have this signage instead of interpreters. But, then they started replacing ALL of the packaging on everything in the store with Spanish-English language. Sometimes the Spanish was on top with the English as the "secondary" print. Then the Mexicans came up to the paint desk and I asked them "what color and sheen for your paint" and they couldn't even answer my question!! I guess they need bilingual associates now too. Last time I checked we weren't in Mexico, that's all I have to say.
Again, I didn't mean to insult you personally but you HAVE to see when I'm coming from here...
Ok, it happened, get over it. It sounds like you guys are making it an issue of race rather then the issue at hand: A flag of another country was above the U.S. flag.
I think the vet went to an extreme there, he shoulda just asked them to correct it.
And damn right Mexicans are taking over. We do the jobs that nobody else wants to do. And that's the truth. Oh, and SPITfire, last time I checked, America is still considered a "Melting Pot". There is no single American race, that's the beauty of this country. If you have a problem with people speaking spanish, then I suggest you find a place where only 1 language is spoken. Oh wait, you won't be able to. That's right.
whats wrong with needing bilingual ppl? last time i checked, that was a plus. in fact, where i live, if your not bilingual you wont get a job.
being bilingual is a skill, a valued one when it comes to jobs.
much like before you could live OK with only a highschool diploma? now that doesnt cut it, now u need at least a bachelors, and sooner or later a bachelors wont cut it.
same concept, before you could do ok knowing only english and get an ok job. were getting closer to when being bilingual is going to be a requirement.... whether you like it or not.
btw, im bilingual, i can speak both english and spanish fluently, and face it, i have a slight edge when it comes to the jobmarket as compared to someone who only speaks english........ or only spanish as well...
the same concept works in mexico, bilinguals are more valued in the workforce than ppl who only speak spanish. thats just the way it is, so live with it
SPITfire wrote: I should stress that I said MOST in my post. MOST.
Most?! Not even close. Almost all immigrants of any nationality learn the language. I bet you couldn't find ONE child of an immigrant who didn't speak english.
SPITfire wrote:
I have no problem with Hispanics (any nationality) if they are over here legally and are at least trying to learn the language/culture. That would include you.
Excuse ME?! *I* am here legally?? *I* am learning the language and culture?!?! I don't even qualify for that distinction!! I don't even speak spanish! My mom and dad don't speak spanish!
That's the same bullsh!t attitude I encounter in Myrtle Beach!! F you man. No, seriously, F U C K Y O U. My family was in California before the US was. We didn't come to the U.S., the U.S. came to *us*. The border jumped me! Then the border wanted to force their language on us but wanted to eat our food.
I'm a SIXTH generation American, and countless generation Native American. I am HARD PRESSED to find white people who've been apart of this country longer,
especially here in California. I am glad YOU learned the language and culture. I am glad YOU made it here legally. I'm glad YOU assimilated.
SPITfire wrote:
I just have a problem with living in an American city and feeling like a minority.
.
This is AMERICA. I don't think you paid attention in class, if ever. We're the melting pot. The english language by it's very nature is a language that steals words for every other language. What makes our country great is it's diversity. There is absolutely, positively no question on that. I can eat Italian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, Mexican, Spanish, Japanese, Polish, French, German any day of the week here in my town. Of course, maybe you don't have that over there. I noticed in MB everything seemed to be steaks and pancakes. ...how exciting...
And if you feel like a minority in your area, it's because your local Republican businessmen are waging a war for customers, and they've decided that making their store appeal more inviting to the recent immigrant population is the way to go. You act like the immigrants changed the labels. Bro, your boss did.
SPITfire wrote: I guess they need bilingual associates now too. Last time I checked we weren't in Mexico, that's all I have to say.
Yes, we're in America, and apparently you don't even know what that means. Why don't you come out to California, I'll take you to a Italian restaurant owned by a Russian and staffed by Mexicans on the way to the Irish pub owned by the black guy with hot asian waitresses. I'm sure it'll be a change from a night of Bobs Waffle House.
Your ignorance kills me. There are so many people like you, just assume someone of color should fall in line with your narrow-minded idea of what this country should be. Want to pat us on the back.
Hey, I don't know if you know this, you're racist. But hey, I'm going to ask my white wife and half white kids if I am, too, just to make sure. I don't like being a hypocrite!
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Awesome post AGuSTiN. I have to agree with you 100%.
MB? umm... Manitoba? You lost me Agustin...
Anyhow... I think things like this become so divisive because people act on prejudice and assumptions instead of checking those at the door (along with attitude) and asking questions, listening to the answer and looking for the solution (be it giving advice, working out a compromise or even finding out you were wrong... whatever).
Either way, Diversity has been the strength of the American Republic, not isolationism. These same arguments have been happening for about 300 years: First, English/French, then Irish/Itallian/Chinese, now Mexican/East Indian/Middle easterners... I'm just wondering how messed up it'll be when we figure out that we're NOT the only sentient beings... or worse, if we make computers that are sentient.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:MB? umm... Manitoba? You lost me Agustin...
Myrtle Beach. It's in the post....
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Ah, okie... missed that.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Oh... god... some of you people just don't get what this is about....
People don't realize what our flag stands for...
When I was in the military... every morning and night... when the flag was raised and lowered.... we would all stand outside in uniform Saluting the flag during the whole process. It reminded us of why we where doing what we where doing, at that the flag stands for all we have given and to honor all we have lost for our country...
Every night when taps could be heard playing over the base speakers.. and the flag was being brought down..... while we where all standing at attention wherever we happened to be at the time... in uniform or not... it reminded us of what our country has been through as a nation and to honer those that gave everything in the fight for freedom. And at the same time... helped give us the courage to do the same if needed.
When a real veteran sees the american flag... he thinks of all that.... it is burned into your mind... and it stays there forever.
I would have done the same thing if I where in his shoes... and I probably would have used my kabar like he did too.... When someone flies a flag over our own.. it not only disrespects the memory of not only my friends and squadron members that have dies in this war... it also disrespects the memory of any american that has died in any war... dot to mention just disrespecting all americans as a whole.
As far if they new better or not.... who cares.... they had to know that putting their flag above ours made it look like they thought mexico was better than america regardless of any laws.... plus anyone that comes from a country that flies flags knows that there are either laws pertaining to it or at minimum.. a respectful way to do it. They knew what they where doing regardless of any laws... In my opinion... they got off easy.
wow, that has to be the first post of Weebel's I agree with, minus the K-bar (who really carries one of those around as a civilian)
GREAT post AGuSTiN
Weeble: the only thing i have against your post is this: Where do they teach people that? I honestly don't think it's simply commmon sense (it was never taught to me, and i freaking was born here!!!).
Seriously, i would have asked, and pointed it out first...despite the feelings, because really, i seriously doubt that flag code is taught at immigration and citizenship class.
But still, I do agree with the rest, though...
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Orlandomon wrote:whats wrong with needing bilingual ppl? last time i checked, that was a plus. in fact, where i live, if your not bilingual you wont get a job.
being bilingual is a skill, a valued one when it comes to jobs.
much like before you could live OK with only a highschool diploma? now that doesnt cut it, now u need at least a bachelors, and sooner or later a bachelors wont cut it.
same concept, before you could do ok knowing only english and get an ok job. were getting closer to when being bilingual is going to be a requirement.... whether you like it or not.
btw, im bilingual, i can speak both english and spanish fluently, and face it, i have a slight edge when it comes to the job market as compared to someone who only speaks english........ or only spanish as well...
the same concept works in mexico, bilinguals are more valued in the workforce than ppl who only speak spanish. thats just the way it is, so live with it
Why should I be bilingual in my own country. All my friends who are Hispanic know English and speak English. My friend Brian, who is from Mexico speaks English. He is very patriotic, and agrees that the Mexican flag shouldn't have been flown higher than the Stars and Strips. Yes being bilingual can help, but it will never be a requirement. I also speak a little Spanish, but I was never required to learn it.....and hell will freeze over before my kids are required to learn it.
Also the vet did what he needed to do. I'm glad many people are supporting his actions.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, October 08, 2007 4:32 AM
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Interesting... Maybe it's because I've always lived in an area where bilingualism is a defacto part of life... I think this whole "ENGLISH IS THE AMERICAN LANGUAGE, PERIOD" sentiment to be kind of silly.
I mean, realistically: There's no set language that the government must provide service in. No one anywhere forces you to speak a given language:
- California you'll be as likely to speak spanish, Cantonese, Mandarin or (I know I'm going to spell this wrong) Uahacan, as you would English.
- Florida, you'll do well to learn French and German to be able to speak with Snow-Birds, Spanish for servicing the Cuban community
- Louisiana, again Spanish because of proximity to Mexico, French because of the Cajun community (there's even French/Acadien-Joile language news in some communities if I remember correctly)
- Texas/NM, Depends on the band of Indians, but you're going to find that some are resistant to learning english, and then there is the Spanish element due to the proximity to Mexico... and now French as well due to Katrina displacement.
Depends on the other places, but realistically, you have a very shallow language pool, yes, english is dominant, but not the only language. Again, I'm approaching this from a mindset where bilingualism is the norm... Europe, is actually that idea taken to the extreme: literally you are well served to learn 5 languages (English, French, Spanish, German, Italian) if you want to cater to as many people as possible.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
