with the proliferation of world wide media, i think the chances of new dialects emerging (especially in america) are slim to none. perhaps if we were to be set back in time to the dark ages by war or some other cataclysmic event, then sure, i could see it happening. but as we are now just the opposite is happening.....we are all exposed to other languages, dialects, and accents that it will eventually form a massive lump of a mutt language--more so than english is already.
its the same idea of "pop will eat itself". the good (or popular) bits keep getting recycled while the rest fall by the wayside.
English is not sexy, it is little hard to learn because can't wright what you hear/ read.
Want a hard language to learn try Ukrainian, 32 letters in the alphabet, and half of them sound different than what most English speaking person can pronounce.
When i moved to US i did not expect yo people to speak Ukrainian, so i learned English. Most of the people that come over to US learn English, except for the stupid once.
Just because there are a lot of Spanish specking people in US (most of then illegals) goes not mean that i and every American have to lean Spanish.
You move to a county you have to learn their language and their way of life and if you are too lazy to do it than do not move there.
"if i offended you i still don't give a funk"
Oleg:
Ukranian has a slavic root--so it's very similar to Russian (even uses the same Cyryllic alphabet). Slovak, sharing the same root, uses the roman alphabet, and as such, has a lot of additional accents on the roman glyphs to even it out. Believe me, i'm trying to learn Slovak...it's difficult
Further, I agree that english isn't sexy--it i like it's non-sexiness.
However, usage would all depend on where specifically you were. You move to a town in the deep american southwest, sometimes the town itself speaks nothing but Spanish--hence locale. In other words, when you move somewhere, make you you can speak the language that is spoken where you live. Thus, if you say, live close to the american/canadian border, you can't NOT expect a few eh-bombs to be dropped, or even picking them up yourself. But I do agree, it's stupid to move somewhere and expect everyone to pander to your needs.
Anyhow, tabs, while there is a "world wide" media, it still won't stop slang being inflected in a locale, and thus posibly becoming an idion, and through the course branching off into a language. The thing is, languages take centuries to develop. We've been speaking english separate from england for 400 years, and yet, it's still english. The accents and idioms are vastly different (see also: Sawed-off shotgun vs. Sawn-off shotgun). The world-wide media won't change this because media in and of itself tries to stay as neutral and "professional" as possible. The local usage of a language will tell the tale. If you watch an english news broadcast, you can fairly well understand it. Listening to people in Cockney talk casually--sounds very different. Even here--compare a northeast vs. a Nothwest accent: Northwest: pure monotone ands zero inflection up or down. Northeast: They pahk their cah in Havahd Yahd. And even so, with the worldwide connections via the internet--consider how many more written slang is starting up...which some will make its way to idioms and then into a language unto itself. Hell, BRB, BTW, WTF, LOL, ROTFL, 1337, n00b, et al are the beginning
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
i still dont think that we will see true dialects emerge like they used to. one of the biggest reasons dialects came about was due to isolationism. some germanic tribes went north, mixed with the locals, and came up with dutch. because they were no longer around their kinsfolk, they amalgamized the language and after a handful of generations it became a bastard child of the local languages.
with our lives firmly planted in the information age, we simply will not see this happen again. instead, slang terms or phrases will come and go across the global spectrum, allowing the roots of a dialect to permeate, pollinate, and then dissipate without ever becoming its own dialect.
it is in this way that words or phrases such as l33t 5p33k are spread across the planet instead of festering and growing in one small area. sure, people may speak the language online, but 1) it is not necessary to do so and 2) people who use leetspeak outside of the internet do not do so wholly--they merely incorporate a few words into their speech while still speaking another language. because of this, certain words or phrases will be absorbed into the generally accepted lexicon and the rest will not. a true dialect would be nothing BUT leetspeak in all forms of communication, not the simplistic "hey, B-R-B man!" or "yeah, i totally PWND him"
hopefully that is coherent enough to read.....im tired right now sorry.
However, you're forgetting that even in cyberspace (as opposed to meatspace
), there is isolationism and eliteism within cyber "cliques". After all, you go to one message board for one car club, and they throw "rice" around more than a wedding. Go to another club, and "rice" is worse than the F-word.
The difference is, a physical locale my be transplanted with a cyber one.
Even with the telephone, railway lines, and faster transportation and communication, new dialelects and jargon STILL spring up. The only issue is that it takes so long for all of those to develop that we don't consider the time aspect wihin the here and now--after all, it's less likley that something like that will develop within anyone's cognative lifetime, but in history books, well, let's face it--the difference between workd war 1 and 2 is like...3 chapters in a book, maybe? We chronicle events in our lives pretty much real-time. The history books skim over a lot--after all, we don't read about the first time FDR took a dump in the white house, do we
?
Same with the development of languages and the like. Some of these have taken well over 500-1000 years to fully develop. Advances in communication notwithstanding. All that means is that jargon that begins somewhere will spread out in colloquial usage, and based on locale (cyber or meat), different idioms adopted.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
damn this is still going? lol
btw she called back again last night
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:btw she called back again last night
..............aaaaaaaaand? any more flip outs by either of you?
My thought is this, If i moved to Spain or Mexico, or anywhere else that I did not speak their native language.... I would make a huge effort to speak their language. Not only to get by day to day but as an interest to their society.
Ive worked with many people that were not native to the US (shortly after high school and before I went to College - I can tell you working in that environment helped kick my ass into gear and go to College). But anyways, I worked with some Bosnian women for a short period of time; They were here for over 3 years and barely new any English. Same with the majority of the Spanish or Portuguese speaking people that worked there at that company.. I see that as being disrespectful.. And I can tell you that the people that I encountered personally that didn't make the effort, it was obvious they looked at themselves higher than those that were generally Caucasian and/or English speaking.
I am NOT racist in anyway, although I don't think that its right for people to move into this country and not make an effort to learn the language and the ways.
And I agree with whomever it was that said it pisses them off that when you go to an ATM, or make a call to various places, where you have to wait to hit the option for English. Now if we didnt make it so easy not to learn the language by doing that, than I think non-native US people would make more of an effort to learn our language.
I heard awhile ago that if the Spanish language continued to increase at the rate that it is in the US that it would become the primary language. Now im sorry but thats a passive way of "conquering" a country.
And the thing that pisses me off the most... A law was I believe just passed, in Florida? (I cant remember the details so don't quote me on it...).. where immigrants get FULL health coverage but the previous law still is held to US Citizens. Here we have people, (some feeding off the system as much as they can and not working, and for those I don't have any sympathy), but the citizens that are struggling and working, and trying to provide for a family, THEY should have those benefits before any immigrant.. That I dont think is right at all. People who are trying to help economy and are a part of this society need to have those rights way before someone that just stepped over the boarder.
Bottom line --> Kudos to QBE... I probably would have said the same thing had it rolled off my tongue in time ... for all that women knew you would have tried to be helpful in catering to her order, rather than just trying to go the easy way and request to speak with a "spanish person"..
Jaz: How is that conquering a country? Changing the language won't change the constitution. Futher, the "english" spoken in 1776 and the "english" spoken now are very different.
I agree that when moving to/living in a locale with a certain language you should try to learn it--lest you be up the creek without a paddle, but I seriously think the whole "speak english or die" attitude is going too overboard. Phil here did something that should be done.
Assume that if someone is speaking a foreing language in front of you to the effect of "insuling you so you can't hear", then asume they don't understand english and do the same. After all, if i hear "Pinche Gringo" directed at me, usually I'd send a "Dog-felching wetback" or the like back--but only if i hear the pinche gringo. I'm not racist--I'm a misanthropist...big difference
Still, the best reaction you can get from someone that has to resort to using another tongue to insult you s knowing enough of that tongue to tell them that you understand what they're saying about you in said tongue. They usually beat a hasty retreat after that because like most cowards, they'll fail to meet you on even terms.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I feel stupid if I speak Spanish with someone who can speak English.
Unless the person can not speak any English.
I mean, why speak Spanish when we can speak english and know exactly what we are talking about
Phil,
while you may feel good about what you did. this can come back on you 10 fold. she can easily call your boss, head office, whatever and get you fired due to harrassment or being a racist. and the way today's society is with being sue happy she could sue you too. if you do get fired, was it really worth it?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, December 16, 2007 9:53 PM
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
99redz24 wrote:Phil,
while you may feel good about what you did. this can come back on you 10 fold. she can easily call your boss, head office, whatever and get you fired due to harrassment or being a racist. and the way today's society is with being sue happy she could sue you too. if you do get fired, was it really worth it?
Can't be racist - he only talked to her over the phone. For all he knows that was a white woman raised in Mexico or something. Since when is being pro-English language and/or anti-Spanish language being racist anyways?
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
99redz24 wrote:Phil,
while you may feel good about what you did. this can come back on you 10 fold. she can easily call your boss, head office, whatever and get you fired due to harrassment or being a racist. and the way today's society is with being sue happy she could sue you too. if you do get fired, was it really worth it?
yeah, but whats she gonna do...? call the home office and ask to speak to the spanish speaking person? she'll probably get the same type of answer unless phil works for a national chain.
(tabs) wrote:good for you. i say just try to not be rude about it because there is no reason to be...you can get your point across without being an ass about it (not saying that you were). hopefully you don't get any flak from upper management or owners about it.
I liked the response. What else could you say? "Hold on ma'm, I'll go train myself in 3 years of spanish in the next 10 seconds and help you."
I play soccer in a Hispanic soccer league here, and although the majority of the players speak spanish to each other, almost all of them know enough english to communicate. Sometimes I think it's just being lazy when someone complains like that caller.
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
Wasn't there a bill passed making English the official language of Pennsylvania therefore making what Phil did perfectly fine?
not sure about PA, but many states have made english the official language. but in our PC infested, liberally biased judicial systems its kind of hard to get anyone to side in your favor if it ever goes to litigation.
gotta love genos is south philly
StrippedCav98 (Now Quotable) wrote:gotta love genos is south philly
They are doing it wrong. Do it like this - Hable inglés o salga(courtesy of
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ so I don't know if its the best translation)
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
honestly any self respecting citizen of this country should have no problem with this
you go to spain you expect them to speak to you in english
THIS IS NOT MEXICO
if you want to speak it go back to mexico
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Doesn't always apply, Rodimus. Slovakia: Official language according to the lawbooks over here is Slovak. You hear English, German, Czech, Russian, and Hungarian here.
The difference is, if you don't speak the language of the estabishment, you go somewhere that does, rather than bitching and moaning.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper Of The Light™ (Strazca)]Doesn't always apply, Rodimus. Slovakia: Official language according to the lawbooks over here is Slovak. You hear English, German, Czech, Russian, and Hungarian here.
The difference is, if you don't speak the language of the estabishment, you go somewhere that does, rather than bitching and moaning.
Actually the difference is you are in Europe w/ a ton of smaller countries. So being bi or even tri- lingual is going to be a lot more common.
As far as the OP goes, if she is illegal then I don't think they should be here
but there are bigger issues than if some lady can't speak English.
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30
(tabs) wrote:with the proliferation of world wide media, i think the chances of new dialects emerging (especially in america) are slim to none. perhaps if we were to be set back in time to the dark ages by war or some other cataclysmic event, then sure, i could see it happening. but as we are now just the opposite is happening.....we are all exposed to other languages, dialects, and accents that it will eventually form a massive lump of a mutt language--more so than english is already.
They said the same thing about the BBC and the Queen's English about 70 some-odd years ago, and there is still new forms of scouse being found.
My thought is that spoken English really hasn't progressed much since the 1600's other than vernacular and minor pronunciations, but the major divergence is with written language used on the internet in some forms which is the short-hand we use a lot.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
not bitching or crying about it... but just thought id let u guys know this..
when ive gone to the movie theatres here in my city, ive noticed that they now have spanish movies showing. same thing in stores, i noticed that as of 2 years or so back to now, you can now pay with pesos as well.
just some info im throwing out there.... so just because in your particular city everybody is against anything related to spanish/mexico... it doesnt mean its the same in every US city.
btw, some of those spanish movies are hillarious
Orlandomon wrote:when ive gone to the movie theatres here in my city, ive noticed that they now have spanish movies showing. same thing in stores, i noticed that as of 2 years or so back to now, you can now pay with pesos as well.
just some info im throwing out there.... so just because in your particular city everybody is against anything related to spanish/mexico... it doesnt mean its the same in every US city.
btw, some of those spanish movies are hillarious
i certainly wish the govt would do something about that. talk about BS!
