EARTHLINGS
(1 hr 35 min 28 sec )

EARTHLINGS is a feature length documentary about humanity's absolute dependence on animals (for pets, food, clothing, entertainment, and scientific research) but also illustrates our complete disrespect for these so-called "non-human providers." The film is narrated by Academy Award nominee Joaquin Phoenix (GLADIATOR) and features music by the critically acclaimed platinum artist Moby.

With an in-depth study into pet stores, puppy mills and animals shelters, as well as factory farms, the leather and fur trades, sports and entertainment industries, and finally the medical and scientific profession, EARTHLINGS uses hidden cameras and never before seen footage to chronicle the day-to-day practices of some of the largest industries in the world, all of which rely entirely on animals for profit. Powerful, informative and thought-provoking, EARTHLINGS is by far the most comprehensive documentary ever produced on the correlation between nature, animals, and human economic interests. There are many worthy animal rights films available, but this one transcends the setting. EARTHLINGS cries to be seen. Highly recommended!


WARNING
Watch and discuss....Do not skip through it!!!

I know how some of you can be, don't jump to conclusions and call it propaganda because **nowhere** in the film does it say we should not consume meat. Simply talking about the cruelty and mistreatment of non human animals. So if you have a heart and your not a scumbag who participates in such activities, you may learn a few things and possibly like myself be moved to tears by some of the graphic content in this film. The important thing is not whether you eat meat or not, it's about educating yourself and taking a stand and saying this is wrong and it needs to stop.

I kill my food. And its tasty

Tinkles wrote:I kill my food. And its tasty

...and your a jerk off.

next please

whether or not the film condemns eating meat, its still propaganda. i dont condone cruelty to animals. that being said, animals are animals and, well, they should be treated as such. but this bleeding-heart, PETA-induced mindset is a bit much for me. yeah, some places are cruel to the animals and they should be changed. but to say that all companies everywhere treat all animals like that is as blatantly biased and ignorant as if i were to say that nothing of the sort ever happened.

interesting.....id like to see this.

killing and hurting other useless people......fine
animal cruelty on the other hand.......those people should die.

i care more about most animals than i do about most people. like seeing battered and scarred pitbulls makes me sick to my stomach.

(tabs) wrote:whether or not the film condemns eating meat, its still propaganda. i dont condone cruelty to animals. that being said, animals are animals and, well, they should be treated as such..

WE ARE ALL ANIMALS. So I guess what you're saying is we should all be treated with the same respect that most slaughter houses treat pigs, cows, and poultry. Which isn't humane what-so-ever.

(tabs) wrote:but this bleeding-heart, PETA-induced mindset is a bit much for me. yeah, some places are cruel to the animals and they should be changed. but to say that all companies everywhere treat all animals like that is as blatantly biased and ignorant as if i were to say that nothing of the sort ever happened

To me the real ignorance here is you and people who think like you. You probably didn't watch the film at all and if you did you did so with a closed mind. Theres nothing bleeding heart or PETA about this, it's in your face facts that are uncomfortable to think about. Again, if you had watched the film you would know that nobody is saying all slaughter houses are cruel, but most of them are, "Kosher" or not. You cannot ignore this. To say it doesn't happen and that "they're just animals" is the type of ignorance that allows this to continue.

When you're hurt you receive proper medical attention, these animals don't. They are bred for the purpose of becoming your next meal therefore nobody gives a @!#$ what happens to them from the time they're born to the time their throat gets slit. How would you like to be skinned alive or have anal induced shock treatment until you die slowly? How about having one of your ligaments ripped off with no anesthetics used? There are animals RIGHT THIS SECOND that are suffering and being mistreated. How dare you sir look away and turn your back toward them?

Makes me @!#$ ill.

Joey Baggs (JCE Designs) wrote:

i care more about most animals than i do about most people.

Ding ding ding! I concur. Be a voice for the voiceless then man, lets do this.

Lets go slit some human throats and see how they like it.

Human kind make me so angry.

SiZZy wrote:
When you're hurt you receive proper medical attention, these animals don't. They are bred for the purpose of becoming your next meal therefore nobody gives a @!#$ what happens to them from the time they're born to the time their throat gets slit. How would you like to be skinned alive or have anal induced shock treatment until you die slowly? How about having one of your ligaments ripped off with no anesthetics used? There are animals RIGHT THIS SECOND that are suffering and being mistreated. How dare you sir look away and turn your back toward them?

Makes me @!#$ ill.

quite frankly, boo @!#$ hoo. we need to fix the problems with the way people treat other people first. there are genocides being carried out right this minute and you are going to sit there and say that you think we should do something about the animals first? get a clue. we need to do something about these atrocities against our own kind before we try and solve problems with how we treat other, lower creatures. and yes, animals other than humans are below us. your movie even distinguishes between humans and animals saying, "these animals do not have all desires we humans have....they do not comprehend everything we humans comprehend."

now before you go off on a tofu-fueled tirade, hear ME out. i dont think we should be cruel to animals. yes, there need to be more regulations for industries that kill animals, etc. but there are many more pressing issues that should be dealt with before we go on a "save the pigs, cows, and dogs" world tour. again, just to make sure you comprehend this, I AM NOT IN SUPPORT OF CRUELTY TOWARDS ANIMALS. so dont try to act like i am somehow.

here are just a few random thoughts for you.
1) animals (again, the lower form that uses the generalized name) do not create. they do nothing beyond live. so the idea that "When you're hurt you receive proper medical attention, these animals don't." shouldnt even come into play. how many BILLIONS of people don't have health coverage? i dont. so if i get sick i have to pay for it out of pocket. meaning i have to WORK to PRODUCE a product or service which i then EXCHANGE for money which then BUYS the needed care. animals can't do this so the money to take care of them needs to come from somewhere else.

2) animals are cruel to other animals. you complain about the way slaughterhouses kill their stock. sure, it sucks. but is it any worse than BEING EATEN ALIVE by another animal? because thats what happens out in the real world, honey. thats how it goes down in the animal kingdom.

3) again this video (which i have watched before, thank you) is nothing more than propaganda from the PETA-loving left wing. you need to look no further than the first 5 minutes of the video. showing images of the KKK and nazis and all that other bull@!#$ is meant for one reason: to play on our already established emotions regarding those people and events.

4) until someone can prove that animals have the ability to think and reason like we humans have the capability to do, then i will continue to say that they are below us. and please dont try to quote your misguided movie and try to compare the nazis and their idea of a superior race. its BS propaganda like i pointed out above.

5) if you feel so surely about this issue, then YOU can do something about it. quit your job and go be a volunteer for an organization that works to prevent this sort of stuff from happening. stop paying for internet and donate that money to your cause. go out and DO something if you feel so strongly on this subject. but please dont think that i should care about it when there are worse things happening to my fellow man in every country on this planet. get your priorities straight, woman. people are the only creatures with an intrinsic value. their preservation and care should come before that of a @!#$ cow.

i just watched that @!#$, and that just makes me sick. @!#$ sick

those people should be shot in the face, and left for their loved ones to clean the mess

I have never trusted PETA. A lot of their videos are "re-creations" of supposed actual abuse where they paid people to torture and kill animals while someone films it with hidden cameras to make the footage look legit. Pretty creepy behavior if you ask me.

"You can tell a lot about a society about the way it treats it's animals."

Not my quote, can't remember who said it, but it's a good one.

Regardless...here we go:

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quite frankly, boo @!#$ hoo. we need to fix the problems with the way people treat other people first. there are genocides being carried out right this minute and you are going to sit there and say that you think we should do something about the animals first? get a clue. we need to do something about these atrocities against our own kind before we try and solve problems with how we treat other, lower creatures. and yes, animals other than humans are below us. your movie even distinguishes between humans and animals saying, "these animals do not have all desires we humans have....they do not comprehend everything we humans comprehend."

Agreed on the genocide part. What are you doing to help?

You talk about lower creatures, but I don't know if you've ever had a pet. You say that those animals don't have all the desires we have...well, they need to eat, @!#$, and reproduce. EVERYTHING IN YOUR LIFE can be summed up to that. You do what you do to eat, @!#$ or reproduce. Don't pretend that you have some kind of special importance here.

My dogs greet me like I'm a god when I get home, follow me everywhere, and curl up with me because I make them feel safe. I can't describe how happy they make with their antics. You know, we have a convoluted notion of love in our society, but an animal provides an unconditional kind you won't get from another person. You give them a bowl of food, some water, a bit of exercise and a pat, and they give you EVERYTHING they have. A person will not reciprocate like your pet will.

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1) animals (again, the lower form that uses the generalized name) do not create. they do nothing beyond live. so the idea that "When you're hurt you receive proper medical attention, these animals don't." shouldnt even come into play. how many BILLIONS of people don't have health coverage? i dont. so if i get sick i have to pay for it out of pocket. meaning i have to WORK to PRODUCE a product or service which i then EXCHANGE for money which then BUYS the needed care. animals can't do this so the money to take care of them needs to come from somewhere else.

Let's be honest again, you don't do anything much other than "live" too. Oh, hey, babies and young children don't create...they don't do much of anything, really. I don't think they can work to produce a product or service which they can then exchange for money which buys them needed care...meh, @!#$ 'em, right?

And, the mentally handicapped don't do much of the above...so...

Well, I think you know your point is pointless.

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2) animals are cruel to other animals. you complain about the way slaughterhouses kill their stock. sure, it sucks. but is it any worse than BEING EATEN ALIVE by another animal? because thats what happens out in the real world, honey. thats how it goes down in the animal kingdom.

Dunno, that's an interesting point, but I think you have to look at the intentions behind the killing. An animal kills to survive. That's nature. You can argue we do the same thing. I eat meat, so I can't really say much about killing animals for food, but the sad thing about the way we kill animals is that we do it in the cheapest manner possible. That leads to a lot of unnecessary suffering because we, as a "higher" level species, should be able to know better and at least give the animal a painless death.

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3) again this video (which i have watched before, thank you) is nothing more than propaganda from the PETA-loving left wing. you need to look no further than the first 5 minutes of the video. showing images of the KKK and nazis and all that other bull@!#$ is meant for one reason: to play on our already established emotions regarding those people and events.

I didn't watch the video, but I don't think I could. I've seen some stuff like that before, and it's about the only thing that I've ever found offensive and disgusting enough to get angry at. I can't defend what they may have put in the video, but the shock value is supposed to play on your emotions. That's the point. Although, it does make me wonder why the actual subject matter itself, void of those emotional tricks, wouldn't make you upset.

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5) if you feel so surely about this issue, then YOU can do something about it. quit your job and go be a volunteer for an organization that works to prevent this sort of stuff from happening. stop paying for internet and donate that money to your cause. go out and DO something if you feel so strongly on this subject. but please dont think that i should care about it when there are worse things happening to my fellow man in every country on this planet. get your priorities straight, woman. people are the only creatures with an intrinsic value. their preservation and care should come before that of a @!#$ cow.

I hate this argument. I do what I can while still trying to live my life. Don't go on about cancelling your internet connection so you can donate. That's so absurd it's laughable. She's here trying to raise awareness.

As far as helping my fellow human being, well, there's the rub. I personally don't care about people all that much. I figure if we're such a "higher" life form, the we should be able to solve our own damn problems. An animal, as far as I'm concerned, is innocent. There is no malicious intent behind what it does. If it kills, it's because it needs to eat or it dies. It doesn't say, "Oh man, I @!#$ HATE that Elk. I'm so going to eat that bitch!" then tattoo a tear under it's eye for every elk it has killed.

People can think, so they should. We don't, that much is obvious from the way we rape this planet and kill each other. But, I suppose that's just the nature of being able to reason. Almost makes me wish we couldn't.

Anyway, people are strong enough, if they want, to fight their own battles. It's how you won your independence from the British. An animal, for the most part, is defenseless, and that's why it sickens me to no end that people can essentially torture them before letting them bleed to death.

First off, if you've ever worked on a farm and had to bring livestock to a slaughterhouse, gone hunting and had to field-dress the animal you killed... There's no cruelty in that.

Second, animals that are cultivated through husbandry are usually living far far better than their wild cousins: they eat better, they are less susceptible to disease, and they have less problems with interaction with people and other animals. They usually live a good bit longer too.

Third, there's a problem with having so many people: you need a lot of animals to feed people that eat meat. Part of the problem is that in taking a LOT of animals for feeding people you have to slaughter them faster. It used to be that cattle were bledgeoned (brained, knocked... pick your verb) by hand with an axe and a strong guy, or their jugulars were pierced by a pair of quick lads, and they just got away from the arterial spray as fast as they could. Now, they're slaughtered faster, it means they get tazed and killed and butchered faster. A malicious farmer that mistreats his livestock won't be in business very long at all: You need to sell healthy livestock to make money. Again, humans are not solely herbivores, we have the ability to tear, masticate, digest and excrete tissues from animal flesh... We eat other animal masses, and instead of hunting as was customary in the bronze-age, we've become agrarian and keep animals with us.

Finally, If the fact that life feeds on life upsets you Sizzy, I'm sorry, but you can go vegan, go naked, and live on grass-plains without possibility of survival past 20 and that's only if you're lucky.

Like it or not, we depend on animals and they depend on us. If it pissed you off that your modern life is about 5 billion times easier than early hominids, try living like a 3rd world inhabitant and see how close they are to animals. I'll eat cattle flesh now without problem, I've seen them slaughtered, and done the butchering of a carcass myself... I've also seen, smelled and handled the remnants of what people do to each other. The difference: people kill each other with malice FAR more often (and with more venom) than they kill or harm animals with malice. My thoughts are pretty simple: we humans are going to burn ourselves and the planet out, and animals will adapt and evolve to the new environment or perish until a new natural web and top-level predator evolves: Just like what has happened for millions of years.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

How can we stop it?
There's too much money involved on this animals.
How can we stop it?

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First off, if you've ever worked on a farm and had to bring livestock to a slaughterhouse, gone hunting and had to field-dress the animal you killed... There's no cruelty in that.

Second, animals that are cultivated through husbandry are usually living far far better than their wild cousins: they eat better, they are less susceptible to disease, and they have less problems with interaction with people and other animals. They usually live a good bit longer too.

I'm not going to disagree with you completely on that matter, but animals, on transport to slaughter in Canada, can go for something like 52 hours in overcrowded trailers that have no heat or air conditioning system, oh, and they're not required to be fed or given water for that entire time. They're literally prodded off of the transport, if they're even strong enough to make it off. That happens on a frequent basis. The farm may not be that bad, but when they're sold for slaughter, that's when the @!#$ hits the fan for them.

No, not all farmers and producers mistreat their livestock. That's not the point. The point is that it does happen, it shouldn't, it's unnecessary, and it's preventable. You'll have a hard time stoping people from killing other people, but you think that if we're going to eat an animal, we could at least treat it with some respect before we put it down.

I can't believe how many people can't read here, either. She said in the first post, and a couple down that nowhere in the video was there anything about giving up meat. It's about mistreatment of an animal.

degenerated wrote:
Agreed on the genocide part. What are you doing to help?

You talk about lower creatures, but I don't know if you've ever had a pet. You say that those animals don't have all the desires we have...well, they need to eat, @!#$, and reproduce. EVERYTHING IN YOUR LIFE can be summed up to that. You do what you do to eat, @!#$ or reproduce. Don't pretend that you have some kind of special importance here.

My dogs greet me like I'm a god when I get home, follow me everywhere, and curl up with me because I make them feel safe. I can't describe how happy they make with their antics. You know, we have a convoluted notion of love in our society, but an animal provides an unconditional kind you won't get from another person. You give them a bowl of food, some water, a bit of exercise and a pat, and they give you EVERYTHING they have. A person will not reciprocate like your pet will.

im not doing a damned thing about genocide. but im also not doing anything for the animals either. point being, you should try to help your fellow man before you go on a holy crusade to rid the world of the "evils" done to animals that provide us with sustenance.

furthermore, i dont feel the need to keep a pet--for many reasons. but to use the argument that you have a pet because they "treat you like god" ?? after all, it sounds like the only reason you have a dog is because you get love from it that you couldnt get from someone else. making it your slave whose sole purpose is to produce something for you and make your life better. do you not think thats a bit hypocritical in this topic seeing as how its about "animal rights"?

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Let's be honest again, you don't do anything much other than "live" too. Oh, hey, babies and young children don't create...they don't do much of anything, really. I don't think they can work to produce a product or service which they can then exchange for money which buys them needed care...meh, @!#$ 'em, right?

And, the mentally handicapped don't do much of the above...so...

Well, I think you know your point is pointless.

the idea here is that people CREATE. not just goods and services, but we also produce the arts. music, paintings, poetry. its our ability to do this that actually SETS us apart from animals.

and we also take better care of our babies and mentally handicapped than animals do, even if they are not able to create or produce on the same level as the rest of us. ever see how a mother animal will treat its own child when there is even the smallest perception of something wrong with it? they leave it and let it die. darwinism at its fullest. but we as people dont do that except in the most extreme of conditions and places (usually the same places that practice genocide)

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Dunno, that's an interesting point, but I think you have to look at the intentions behind the killing. An animal kills to survive. That's nature. You can argue we do the same thing. I eat meat, so I can't really say much about killing animals for food, but the sad thing about the way we kill animals is that we do it in the cheapest manner possible. That leads to a lot of unnecessary suffering because we, as a "higher" level species, should be able to know better and at least give the animal a painless death.

people who are cruel to animals will also be cruel to other human beings. so its not a question of them viewing our species as "higher" but instead has to do with the person himself. usually they think that they (as an individual) are higher than everyone else.

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I didn't watch the video, but I don't think I could. I've seen some stuff like that before, and it's about the only thing that I've ever found offensive and disgusting enough to get angry at. I can't defend what they may have put in the video, but the shock value is supposed to play on your emotions. That's the point. Although, it does make me wonder why the actual subject matter itself, void of those emotional tricks, wouldn't make you upset.

just knowing that its propagandistic makes me less emotional to the material. lemme ask you though.....do you cry at romantic movies or dramas? no? why is that, do you think? after all, its a movie with emotional overtones and cues meant to elicit a certain reaction within you. same deal here. i am already aware that stuff like this happens so its not a new concept. so when they show someone torturing an animal its only for shock effect.

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I hate this argument. I do what I can while still trying to live my life. Don't go on about cancelling your internet connection so you can donate. That's so absurd it's laughable. She's here trying to raise awareness.

As far as helping my fellow human being, well, there's the rub. I personally don't care about people all that much. I figure if we're such a "higher" life form, the we should be able to solve our own damn problems. An animal, as far as I'm concerned, is innocent. There is no malicious intent behind what it does. If it kills, it's because it needs to eat or it dies. It doesn't say, "Oh man, I @!#$ HATE that Elk. I'm so going to eat that bitch!" then tattoo a tear under it's eye for every elk it has killed.

People can think, so they should. We don't, that much is obvious from the way we rape this planet and kill each other. But, I suppose that's just the nature of being able to reason. Almost makes me wish we couldn't.

Anyway, people are strong enough, if they want, to fight their own battles. It's how you won your independence from the British. An animal, for the most part, is defenseless, and that's why it sickens me to no end that people can essentially torture them before letting them bleed to death.

there is a huge difference in "raising awareness" and trying to pass off this sort of opportunistic dribble as what they try to make it out to be. from watching this video it makes it sound like the majority of animals are treated like this where its actually a very small minority. like GAM pointed out, mistreating the meat shows in the final product. and the market dictates that inferior products and services eventually fall by the wayside in favor of a more balanced and good product or service.

i am a misanthrope: i dont really care for people much either. but i think its dumb as hell to care about animals--creatures without the ability to think, reason, or even love--more than people who do have these abilities, even if they choose to ignore them. sure, animals are "innocent" because they dont have the ability to be anything but that. and for that reason we shouldnt torture them. but it stops there. beyond that line, they are just creatures and should be treated with indifference (which means neutrality, although videos such as this try to make it sound like it actually means negativity) and should not garner any more attention than your fellow man.

The problem I've always had with most enviromentalists, is that they're all city dwellers for the most part and the loudest yelling ones really don't know anything about nature. They have this view that man is destructive and evil and cruel, as if nature itself is not. I mean, we're PART of nature dontcha know? We're just doing what comes naturally. We're no different than Wolves or Monkeys or Dolphins.

They should do well to learn the first truth of Buddhism: "Life is pain"

Not fair? You bet. But it beats the alternative: death.

What this really comes down to is the inability to accept that pain and cruelty are a part of life, and that ALL living things are either the subject of, or the cause of cruelty and suffering. I've seen a lot of these armchair enviromentalist be completely flabbergasted when they learn that predators most of the time go for the youngest and most helpless prey. The look of horror on their face when they see a baby coyote or something being carried away by a bear while squealing in pain for it's mother is priceless... in a sad way.

But the only way to eliminate these things is to eliminate life, all life. And that's never gonna happen.

Also, using words like "Genocide" when quite a few of them would be perfectly accepting of human Genocide is really hypocritical. In fact, I honestly believe that in the next hundred years we'll see a few of the more radical of these charming guys and girls go to places like Africa (where the gigantic amount of people surely has totally destroyed the fragile ecosystem there) and try to do something really screwed up like sterilize the population. Why not? They're poor and you could probably get the locals to accept it if you fed them. In fact, the only reason why I think someone hasn't done it already is that they're scared that someone over there would stop them using machetes and guns.

I will say one thing positive about the animal rights people though. They are right that most people have no conception of the amount of suffering animals go through to provide us meat..So, I'm against slaughterhouses. I think people should kill their own meat. Do their own dirty work for once. Life is pain, this is a lesson than not just the greenies need to learn.

here is an interesting clip for you guys to watch. of course its pointed more at PETA than anything, but i feel it shows the opposing side rather well.

BTW, this is NOT WORK SAFE! nothing too bad...mostly language.

SiZZy wrote:

Tinkles wrote:I kill my food. And its tasty

...and your a jerk off.

next please

Couldnt help myself.

Killing other animals is part of nature, always has been and always will. Its survival. Everything dies. Simple and cant be argued.

Ethical.....right there is a funny word. Ethical is only a mater of someones opinion and perspective.

I love animals, and I sure love eating them.

I have a dog named Lady, and she is spoiled like no other. And you know what, we both enjoy eating our steaks on the second Sunday of every month.





PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

(tabs) - I am not going to sit here and break down all of your posts (degenerated IMO did an excellent job doing that already) cause I don't have the time to invest in a person whom I'm not getting anywhere with. From what I've seen in this thread all you want to do is argue. You want me to listen to you but you show me no respect so how can I? You call me woman and honey and make some tofu comment -- you don't even know me. If this was IRL comments like that to my face would get you a punch in yours. No lie. I'm not some veggie head tree hugging hippie from the mountains. What I am is a lover of all animals who is trying to spread awareness of the fact that these things are happening. Right now. You don't have to like what I'm saying, you don't have to agree with it, but what is there to argue about? Watching a guy beat the @!#$ out of a pig until it's dead doesn't make you feel an ounce of sympathy or anger? Theres no reason to be so inhumane, thats the point of this.

Your all about "save man kind" @!#$ MANKIND look what MANKIND has done to this @!#$ earth, we all deserve to pay in the end and we will so, I hope your not afraid of death baby cause it's coming for us all. We're greedy, cruel, self mutilating @!#$s. I never asked to be brought in to this world in this body, I'd much rather live on the range and be free and wild than live amongst humans in this sess pool of life, and thats on a good day. I am thankful for many things that I do have and am able to have because I am human, however I did not ask to be, and they did not ask to be live stock who gets treated cruelly. ALL animals have feelings regardless of how intelligent they are or are not. From the domestic dog right down to the Thanksgiving turkey. This is what you are not taking in to consideration. The fact that you don't own a pet is no surprise to me - you say "I AM NOT IN SUPPORT OF CRUELTY TOWARDS ANIMALS" but your compassion for animals is pretty much non existent.

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i dont really care for people much either. but i think its dumb as hell to care about animals--creatures without the ability to think, reason, or even love

Thats the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

Why don't you go out and adopt a homeless pet from a local humane society, theres no greater loyalty or love than that of a pet. Sounds like you really need something like that in your life, it would benefit both you and the animal. Seriously, consider it.

Also - I do volunteer, I am trying to raise awareness even in a waste of time forum like this, cause I think somebody lurking got something out of it and it touches 1 person thats good enough for me.



BTW GAM, I'll be 24 this year. I'm still unclear about what you're saying. One can live on a meatless diet and I can go in the woods and make a fire and my own shelter and live off the land like the good ol days so what are you saying? Just because one becomes accustom to the comforts and technology of modern day living doesn't mean we can't survive and live with animals if we should choose to do so.



degenerated (btw you're awesome) - what kind of dogs do you have?

Heres our little guy



He's a purebred Pembroke Welsh Corgi


We also have a cat, he's part Maine Coon and friggin awesome but no pics on this computer.


Some of you vets might remember Skuppy...

RIP Skuppy I miss you

I light a candle every Sunday right next to his ern.

heres my babies.....both purebread pittbulls and the friendliest dogs you could possibly want....almost to friendly, lol. as you can see they're spoiled rotten


Ruby (left) and Kendra (right) rocking the bills baby

I love pits, my girls sister has a puppy shes a "blue" pit I believe.





her name is Meeka

SiZZy wrote:Your all about "save man kind" @!#$ MANKIND look what MANKIND has done to this @!#$ earth, we all deserve to pay in the end and we will so, I hope your not afraid of death baby cause it's coming for us all. We're greedy, cruel, self mutilating @!#$s. I never asked to be brought in to this world in this body, I'd much rather live on the range and be free and wild than live amongst humans in this sess pool of life, and thats on a good day. I am thankful for many things that I do have and am able to have because I am human, however I did not ask to be, and they did not ask to be live stock who gets treated cruelly. ALL animals have feelings regardless of how intelligent they are or are not. From the domestic dog right down to the Thanksgiving turkey. This is what you are not taking in to consideration. The fact that you don't own a pet is no surprise to me - you say "I AM NOT IN SUPPORT OF CRUELTY TOWARDS ANIMALS" but your compassion for animals is pretty much non existent.

Uhh... sweetie? We haven't done anything to the world. We're part of the world. We're not above it or below it, we're just part of it. To exist we have to kill and consume. Animals have to do the same thing. Plants are no different btw, they fight for sunlight and water and steal it from each other. Because the number one rule of nature is that if another dies, you live. It's always been that way. And as for Death, it's coming for us all no matter what we do. Dying young because we polluted the air enough to give us lung cancer or dying young because we live in the wild and die painfully of appendicidis is the same thing. Greedy and cruel? Ever see animals fight over meat? Ever see dogs kill their young? That's life. It's natural. That's what life is supposed to be like. It's not supposed to be gentle and fair and harmonious. It's a fight for supremacy and dominance.

It's the same as your beliefs. You want to see humans fail so that animals will win. It's just another form of dominance and supremacy. It's just the reverse of people who think animals are beneath them and only made to serve them. Or put another way: You're playing the same game, only you're rooting for a different winner.

Just because you're a misanthrope doesn't mean you're not acting identically to every other human on this planet. You want your ideas, your beliefs, your concepts to be the superior ones, just like like everyone else and are ready to fight to make it true. It's really no different than why Wolves are stronger than Rabbits. You're ideas are superior, so they make you stand above other people. A wolf's strenght and size is superior and it makes it stand above the rabbit. Same thing.

What's really ironic is that the thing that makes you hate the human race, is really the most natural part of it. And that things like selflessness, gentleness, kindness, self-sacrifice... all laudable traits... are all unnatural and virtually absent from the animal world. In any case, you hating people is just something to distinguish you from your peers, it's something that makes you strong and it gives you unique status. It's all natural in my eyes.

oh boy....where to start....

SiZZy wrote:(tabs) - I am not going to sit here and break down all of your posts (degenerated IMO did an excellent job doing that already) cause I don't have the time to invest in a person whom I'm not getting anywhere with. From what I've seen in this thread all you want to do is argue. You want me to listen to you but you show me no respect so how can I? You call me woman and honey and make some tofu comment -- you don't even know me. If this was IRL comments like that to my face would get you a punch in yours. No lie. I'm not some veggie head tree hugging hippie from the mountains. What I am is a lover of all animals who is trying to spread awareness of the fact that these things are happening. Right now. You don't have to like what I'm saying, you don't have to agree with it, but what is there to argue about?

alright, lets see here. first off, you posted this in the war forum. that indicates that probability of a lively debate. gentle ribbing aside (tofu comment) i have not resorted to name calling or other lower forms of "argument" and instead have presented my ideas in a logical fashion in a point-counterpoint structure. dont like that? ehh...not my problem

secondly (and i usually hate this type of arguing as i feel it IS the dumb type that should be avoided especially over the internet, but for the hell of it i'll play along...) if you were to get so upset that i called you terms of endearment such as "honey" or referred to you by your gender "woman" and you were to hit me...? woman or not, i'd knock you the @!#$ out. that goes for anyone, man or woman, any ethnicity, religion, etc. you hit, you get hit back. exceptions might be made for children or mentally handicapped. beyond that, you'll get as well as you give. period.

further more, ive always felt that "raising awareness" and doing nothing else is a cop out. its a convenient way for you to feel good about yourself. take that as you will...

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Watching a guy beat the @!#$ out of a pig until it's dead doesn't make you feel an ounce of sympathy or anger? Theres no reason to be so inhumane, thats the point of this.

again, do you not see the hypocrisy in your own statements? you say the EXACT SAME THING about your fellow man....but when you ASSUME that i feel that way about animals suddenly its a horrible crime? please.

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Your all about "save man kind" @!#$ MANKIND look what MANKIND has done to this @!#$ earth, we all deserve to pay in the end and we will so, I hope your not afraid of death baby cause it's coming for us all. We're greedy, cruel, self mutilating @!#$s. I never asked to be brought in to this world in this body, I'd much rather live on the range and be free and wild than live amongst humans in this sess pool of life, and thats on a good day. I am thankful for many things that I do have and am able to have because I am human, however I did not ask to be, and they did not ask to be live stock who gets treated cruelly. ALL animals have feelings regardless of how intelligent they are or are not. From the domestic dog right down to the Thanksgiving turkey. This is what you are not taking in to consideration.

yeah people are greedy, selfish, cruel @!#$. so what? you think the animal kingdom is all peaches and rainbows? cause in the real world a pig, meerkat, and a lion dont sing songs and dance their way across the plains of africa. they eat each other. they steal each other's food, shelter, water, etc. we do the same thing on a larger scale. the only difference is we have a conscious and can look back and say "oh noes! people are mean!" whereas animals are oblivious to this.

and i am well aware that death is the end for us all. who cares? am i supposed to be scared of that? i dont recall asking to be born either. but so what? we're here.....deal with it.

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The fact that you don't own a pet is no surprise to me - you say "I AM NOT IN SUPPORT OF CRUELTY TOWARDS ANIMALS" but your compassion for animals is pretty much non existent.

again, your compassion for people who, by your own words are also animals, is nil. kettle, pot?

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i dont really care for people much either. but i think its dumb as hell to care about animals--creatures without the ability to think, reason, or even love

Thats the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

Why don't you go out and adopt a homeless pet from a local humane society, theres no greater loyalty or love than that of a pet. Sounds like you really need something like that in your life, it would benefit both you and the animal. Seriously, consider it.

first off, you decided to end my quote early. clever little bugger! had you not misquoted me perhaps you would have noticed that i said "but i think its dumb as hell to care about animals--creatures without the ability to think, reason, or even love--more than people who do have these abilities, even if they choose to ignore them." there's a big difference between what i said and what you decided to quote. i suppose it could have been an honest mistake, but i seriously doubt it.

secondly, i dont need to use an animal for loyalty or love or anything else. talk about selfish...! at least with a human they have the ability to reason and respond. if you feed a dog, he'll keep coming back and will be in a good mood because he is getting for free what he would otherwise have to work for. but if you were to treat that dog like @!#$, do you think they would act the same? hell no! its nothing more than pavlovian training.

now, treat a person well and they may or may not love you back. treat a person badly and they may or may not love you back. but its that duality that actually shows or expresses love. it isnt some learned behavior....there is something more to it than that. animals are incapable of complex emotions like that. animals have feelings--meaning nerve endings--but they are completely devoid of actual emotions like humans are. they have the basics provided by the hypothalamus--the primitive brain--and nothing more.

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Also - I do volunteer, I am trying to raise awareness even in a waste of time forum like this, cause I think somebody lurking got something out of it and it touches 1 person thats good enough for me.

i certainly hope you do volunteer IRL because, as i said above, "raising awareness" is a BS excuse to make people feel good about themselves. tell me, are you also one of those people who sponsor the poor, starving children in africa too? cause you know of that $30/month that makes you feel soooo good about sending, only about 5% actually makes its way to africa. and then even less to the actual child. but hey, at least you can justify it in your own mind that youve done something, even though it actually counts for nothing.

now i am all up for continuing this debate in a logical, grown up manner. but it appears as if you are way too emotionally involved to actually put up much of an argument. of course, if you were a deer i guess that wouldnt be a problem since you wouldnt have any emotions to get tangled up in. of course if you were a deer, i would make you into delicious deer jerky with lots of black pepper. mmmmm, yummy!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:43 PM

degenerated wrote:I'm not going to disagree with you completely on that matter, but animals, on transport to slaughter in Canada, can go for something like 52 hours in overcrowded trailers that have no heat or air conditioning system, oh, and they're not required to be fed or given water for that entire time. They're literally prodded off of the transport, if they're even strong enough to make it off. That happens on a frequent basis. The farm may not be that bad, but when they're sold for slaughter, that's when the @!#$ hits the fan for them.

52 hours on a transport? You can go from PEI/Newfoundland to California in that time taking time to eat and sleep, 8-12 hours is even a little much. Most animals are slaughtered within 100 miles of the auction house, which is usually less than 100 miles from the farm. True, there is usually no heat or AC but these animals first live outdoors most of their lives, and second, they're usually not bone-racks and have adequate fat-bracing against the cold and ventilation from heat. Besides, I've unloaded a cattle transport in February: It's pretty damned warm in there from the animals alone.

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No, not all farmers and producers mistreat their livestock. That's not the point. The point is that it does happen, it shouldn't, it's unnecessary, and it's preventable. You'll have a hard time stoping people from killing other people, but you think that if we're going to eat an animal, we could at least treat it with some respect before we put it down.

Have you been to a factory slaughterhouse? I've seen less humane conditions in medium sized prisons for violent offenders. Slaughterhouses that want to keep their licenses in Canada have to be scrutinized weekly if I remember correctly, meaning the tazing equipment has to be working: the animal doesn't feel the following steps. The problem arises when you attempt to euthenize the animals because of enzymatic response and drug-creep (moves from the animal into the humans consuming the flesh).

As far as preventing farmers from mistreating their livestock: it's not widespread, it's not endemic and it's not normal because it's not at all profitable. An abused domesticated animal will not fetch a high price, and will likely be graded poorly before it hits the auction block.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but if this was widespread, the laws and enforcement currently in place would catch a lot more offending farmers and rendering plants than they do now.

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I can't believe how many people can't read here, either. She said in the first post, and a couple down that nowhere in the video was there anything about giving up meat. It's about mistreatment of an animal.

I can read, but I can also think: The meat issue is part of the larger issue the moment you introduce the idea of slaughterhouses. Slaughterhouses are used to begin the rending process for meat, leather, bonemeal, and other products created from animal viscera.

I hitched on it because I hear about the animal rights bit from vegans that are pushing both issues but have never been to an animal farm (not the Orwellian kind at any rate) or have seen an average slaughterhouse. It's pretty barbaric, but getting the animals processed just is. Imagine what the vegetables go through! SUFFER THE LITTLE CARROTS!!! (Yes, I'm kidding)

Personally, I think the pet industry is a bigger culprit for mistreatment of animals than agriculture ever was. The fur industry being what it is, it's hard to figure out a way to process rodents and other animals for their fur and viscera, and do it fast enough to make a buck and satisfy demand.

Parenthetically: The other thing is that a lot of these special interest groups work at cross-purposes. Animal Rights wants you to never ever wear fur/leather, but the environmental movement wants you to not use products that will pollute: to wit, AR wants you to wear either plant-based or artificial fabrics that wear out quickly and have to be replaced often, whereas EM wants you to wear something that will last and if it must be discarded because its worn out it can either be repaired or will degrade quickly.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.