What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.? - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:59 PM on j-body.org
I was responding to the post immediately before mine. (Smokey) He said "OPEC over-producing oil, driving prices into the dirt, which made for cheap energy."

I could give a flying rip about the other oil cartels and how much of their product we get/ got from them. That was and is irrelevant to my question. I wasnt' even arguing with the guy, just asking for his explanation as it related to OPEC.

He brought up OPEC, not me. So, wax eloquent and post commodity factoids to your little heart's content. And feel free to play nicely with that turnabout thingamajiggy.

.




“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:45 AM on j-body.org
You address a point from a completely baseless position, and you're wrong in the first place, and when it's pointed out, you all of a sudden don't care about... even though it is actually germaine to the discussion.

Do you ever stop and wonder why your logic is continually flawed?




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 8:56 AM on j-body.org
Once again....since your obvious disdain for the ground I walk on clouds everything you see.


I asked what was the ONE major driving force behind the economic boom of the 90's. I received several opinions....THEN

SMOKEY said "OPEC over-producing oil, driving prices into the dirt, which made for cheap energy." To which I responded with...

How does dirt cheap prices benefit OPEC? (not what is opec's role in the global commodities market, or where does the US get its oil)
Dirt cheap prices make for low profit you see? We know first hand, that even if the prices are higher, we still pay the asking price...recession or not....same with the rest of the motorized world.

Then you come along and go on and on, posting crap about me not knowing how the commodities market operates etc, and breaking down the big oil cartels and where the united states REALLY gets most of its oil from....blah....blah....blah....

I don't care if OPEC puts a toy in every barrel of oil sold. It matter little to me what cartoons were popular in Amsterdam in the 90's. If Sven in Switzerland is traveling by train at 60km per hr from X, and Gretchen is walking from B at 2 km per hour, when will they meet?

WTH? What does a toy in every barrel, cartoons in Amsterdam, and Sven -Gretchen have to do with this thread? About as much as your mental Lilliputin attempts at validating your existence on this website.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:47 AM on j-body.org
Well, first off, I don't disdain the ground you walk on, just the way you slant a question in such a way that you're making a point, and not asking an open-ended question. Handy that.

Secondly, if you want one overriding, and non-nuanced reason for the boom in the 90's (ignoring the fact that there was in fact no individual reason for it), luck is as good as any figment you could pick up.





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Thursday, February 28, 2008 3:25 PM on j-body.org
By the bye:

You asked for the #1 reason, implying there is a list, not the ONLY reason. You also got that answer first reply (use the previous button... it's right there near the top, promise). Your involvement in the thread should have theoretically ended there, but you're obviously spoiling for a fight.

You also seem to have been given a direct answer for all your questions, yet you never quite acknowledge that: either you're not asking the right questions, or you're not getting the answers you want to start in with more of the same tripe you had in the absurd anti-gay marriage thread. But then again, most of us here have good ol Admiral Ackbar:




There.. No latin, easy to read. Happy now, Boopsie?




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:51 PM on j-body.org
Very happy actually. Except, if I took the first answer/ opinion I heard as fact, what would that say. I wanted to hear everyones' opinion and thought. No trap actually, not unless you or others have been giving Bill Clinton all the praise and accolades for the 90's boom.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:02 PM on j-body.org
Looks like I touched a nerve and pissed in the cornflakes at the same time! You can hate me all you want, cuz the head is still rolling.
And the fact that you seemingly search me out and dissect my posts says something doesn't it? In my weird sarcastic way, I make sense, (and hence your pompish pissyness) and your bowels churn because you can't make me behave. If demonizing me makes you feel safe that no young impressionable minds might take me remotely seriously, then call me Beelzebub.
.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:08 PM on j-body.org
ScottaWhite wrote:Looks like I touched a nerve and pissed in the cornflakes at the same time! You can hate me all you want, cuz the head is still rolling.
And the fact that you seemingly search me out and dissect my posts says something doesn't it? In my weird sarcastic way, I make sense, (and hence your pompish pissyness) and your bowels churn because you can't make me behave. If demonizing me makes you feel safe that no young impressionable minds might take me remotely seriously, then call me Beelzebub.
.


I don't think anyone demonizes you. Feels sorry for you would probably fit better.

Asking leading questions isn't the way to gain information, it's a way to trick people into talking themselves into statements that appear to agree with you.

I could start a post about black history month being in February. Why February? Why is their month the shortest one of the year? Is whitey still trying to keep the black man down. Kind of ridiculous isn't it. This is the type of statements you've been making and as soon as someone disagrees with you, you're offended or claim that their response didn't answer the question.
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:11 PM on j-body.org
A leading question? Do tell... What was the main reason behind the economic boom o f the 90's? Sounds extremely leading to me.

There were many reasons given by several people. Things from the fall of the Soviet Union, Dot.coms, and even Opec keeping oil prices dirt low...
I agreed with one of them, but never lead anyone along. In your heart, you wanted to gush the goodness of the Clinton legacy, but knew I suspected you would say that.

You also knew it wasn't really true, at least not below the misconception surface. And then you heard Akbar whispering in your ear and decided to go after me.

And to feel sorry, one would have to care. And since that isn't the case, it would mean I polarize your collective bleeding hearts.

And Lombutomi,
.Kind of ridiculous isn't it. This is the type of statements you've been making and as soon as someone disagrees with you, you're offended or claim that their response didn't answer the question."

Since I've made more than one of these statements in which people disagreed with me, my feelings got hurt, and I retorted with a "you're not answering the question", please feel free to quote me.

The italicized quote above is getting back to Smokeys bit about OPEC. I asked him how it helped OPEC to keep prices down, then GAM went on a tirade about the commodities marked and the various cartels etc. Which although informative, wasn't relative to the question I posed in response to Smokey's question.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:03 AM on j-body.org
If you bothered to read the full text of any of the posts above, I also posted an answer to your initial question, and on top of that, So did Tabs, Sappy, and even Smokey (Assuming you could put 2+2 together and realize that cheap energy means lower production, transportation and heating costs, and lower costs means easier to afford items, but then again, it seems you need things spelled out in Crayola).

If you don't want the answers people are giving you I suggest you stop asking questions here.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:05 AM on j-body.org
I'll try and explain the opec thing once again with some additions to clarify.

Opec is a group of nations that have formed an entity in which to stabilize (manipulate) oil pricing. This only works as long as every member abides by the decisions of the collective unit. If a $25/barrel price is agreed upon they set limits on how much each nation can export to keep supply in line with demand. One problem in the 90s is that some of the nations (probably all at one point or another) would produce more than their limit. for example. Saudi Arabia can make more money selling 10 barrels at $20 than 5 at $25. When these countries overproduced it drove pricing lower.

While it may not directly benefit opec, the overproduction did lead to cheaper oil. That cheap oil helped developing countries grow and helped the overall world economy. You may not have noticed, but the steel industry is following the same type of self imposed limits when distributor inventory starts climbing too high. It's not to keep the price high, it's to keep the prices stable. If you look at steel prices and company profits over time you'll notice that is has major boom and bust swings. The big players in the industry are doing what they can to reduce those.

Now the problem isn't in the opec policies, it's with the commodity's market. Opec doesn't have the capacity to bring the traders back in-line.

The feeling sorry part was me speaking for me, not any collective group. You by no means polarize my feelings, so I guess you would have to be correct in that I care. If I didn't I wouldn't have tried to explain it to you (again).

Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Friday, February 29, 2008 8:21 PM on j-body.org
Perhaps this misunderstanding has been partially my fault. I responded to Smokey's statement about the OPEC, not because cheap oil isn't good for the economy, but because my question was in essence: "Why would OPEC sell oil so cheap?" It seems some of you thought I was arguing that cheap oil made no impact on the economy. Basically, I thought Smokey was chasing a rabbit. And keeping oil cheap, whether it be opec, Hugo, etc. is not as good for business as $100 a barrel. We use more now at $100+, than when it was $30. So, it seems the answer to my question, is that higher prices are better for opec than lower prices.

I could care less if the answers I get to the questions are to my liking. It was interesting to read all the different points of view, but MY underlying motivation was to see if anyone would indeed heap accolades and credit the the Clinton administration. It seems no one here believes that, but most would talk about the glorious 90's, like when you hear someone say "Man, the economy sure sucks...I sure wish Bill Clinton was president again, then it would be all better." Enough of you chess players saw that coming and listened to Akbar.

I don't ask questions just to start arguments. I like to see who jumps in the alligator pond with their eyes shut and myna-bird what they hear in college, and watch those who analyze the "what's he up to?" angle. And if certain people get pissed off and resort to neanderthal name-calling, then all the better for me!

At the very leas, even if you hate everything about me, including the brand of socks I wear, no one here can legitimately claim I have called them anything more harsh than: Nancy, princess, or stupid. I don't need to go further than that. Watching some of you do it, is like watching the angry german kid on youtube.

.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Friday, February 29, 2008 8:52 PM on j-body.org
ScottaWhite wrote:Perhaps this misunderstanding has been partially my fault. I responded to Smokey's statement about the OPEC, not because cheap oil isn't good for the economy, but because my question was in essence: "Why would OPEC sell oil so cheap?" It seems some of you thought I was arguing that cheap oil made no impact on the economy. Basically, I thought Smokey was chasing a rabbit. And keeping oil cheap, whether it be opec, Hugo, etc. is not as good for business as $100 a barrel. We use more now at $100+, than when it was $30. So, it seems the answer to my question, is that higher prices are better for opec than lower prices.

You may want to direct this at someone... But I can see what you're saying.

Demand has been much greater now for oil and oil based products, but it's ultimately self-destructive no matter what the ask/buy price is because ludicrous prices demands innovation. In most cases before it was for cheaper and more powerful sources of energy, but now there's the added environmental impact.

Quote:

I could care less if the answers I get to the questions are to my liking. It was interesting to read all the different points of view, but MY underlying motivation was to see if anyone would indeed heap accolades and credit the the Clinton administration. It seems no one here believes that, but most would talk about the glorious 90's, like when you hear someone say "Man, the economy sure sucks...I sure wish Bill Clinton was president again, then it would be all better." Enough of you chess players saw that coming and listened to Akbar.
Clinton wasn't the only reason, but realistically, his policies did bring the US out of a hell of a recession (lasted about 5-6 years IIRC) that started under GHW Bush, and also fed the tech-boom, made the streets safer (ostensibly) and pushed the manufacturing sector into better straits than it had been since before Carter's administration... it left the current administration in a very good stead. I'm not going to say GW Bush totally screwed the economy, because it wasn't all his fault, but the recovery from 9/11/01 wasn't handled as well as it ought to have been, and several other mis-steps like cutting taxes in a time of war and making it easier for corporations to export jobs to foreign countries (read 3rd world) which also cripples the tax-base, weren't such great ideas in retrospect.

Quote:

I don't ask questions just to start arguments. I like to see who jumps in the alligator pond with their eyes shut and myna-bird what they hear in college, and watch those who analyze the "what's he up to?" angle. And if certain people get pissed off and resort to neanderthal name-calling, then all the better for me!
I understand that, but realistically, I'm not going to start name calling (I use the name "Boopsie" as an homage to Garfield , it's a long story, but it's not meant as a personal affront). I don't resort to name-calling because it's poor form, and it doesn't make my point any stronger or yours any weaker, plus, being vulgar isn't usually called for, however being blunt is sometimes.

BTW, you ARE a shit disturber, by hook or by crook. Asking questions and skewing them to point at a certain conclusion (ie, gay marriage thread), and tossing in boorish rhetoric as seasoning.. that's spoiling for a fight in my books. Nothing wrong with a good argument IMO, but mixing in bad-blood isn't worth the problems.

Quote:

At the very leas, even if you hate everything about me, including the brand of socks I wear, no one here can legitimately claim I have called them anything more harsh than: Nancy, princess, or stupid. I don't need to go further than that. Watching some of you do it, is like watching the angry german kid on youtube.

See, that's where you're going off on that tangent. I don't personally HATE you, I have a lot of vitriol for what you're couching your ideas in (even if you're doing it as a ploy to go the other way with them, shich I sort of expected), and if you're just playing agent provocateur/devil's advocate, I personally have no problems with that but being who I am, I don't like coming at things from an off-angle. I have to do that day-in, day-out at work... and here, it's just easier to talk about things plainly.

I won't deny I said somethings that are harsh, but name-calling (ie, nancy, princess, stupid (especially)) in order to provoke reactions isn't called for ever because you get... well... you've seen it. I've seen this kind of thing with other people (like jbodyforjc, MrGTO off the top of my head) and once that starts happening things go south really fast, so I usually try to put the brakes on when I see it because it usually turns ugly and the thread of the discussion gets lost.

Cheers.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Saturday, March 01, 2008 2:44 PM on j-body.org
"and several other mis-steps like cutting taxes in a time of war and making it easier for corporations to export jobs to foreign countries (read 3rd world) which also cripples the tax-base, weren't such great ideas in retrospect."


just testing my memory here cause i havnt looked it up in a while. but didnt clinton start the whole nafta, deal starting the whole companies moving out of the country. and does anyone have any data on how many jobs moved out of the country since then and how many have moved into the country?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Sunday, March 02, 2008 3:17 PM on j-body.org
Yes, but I'm talking about moving them out of North America to China, India.. etc. NAFTA was very good for some and really crappy for others, but we could move goods across the borders without having horrendous tarriffs... well, almost anyhow. NAFTA was a mixed blessing IMHO.

If you follow back to about... ummm... I believe 2003-4 in here, I had an argument about this with MrGTO where he was saying the economy was way up, and then found out that job creation was slack as hell, and job exportation had begun in earnest... I looked for non-agricultural job numbers for that month and 2000, and there was a pretty sharp decline in the numbers of jobs created (including the food-service industry "manufacturing" jobs ), and to give that a counter point I had found the jobless rate then with 2000 overall as I recall.

What's happened since is manufacturing jobs (not food-service ) have been steadily declining, and service/information based industry jobs have been going up, but not as quickly as hoped. From what I've seen and more or less understand, we're just about back at 2001ish total jobs levels, even though the economy has grown about 2-3% per year. Inflation has more or less kept up, so you're really not any further ahead, and if you figure the average raise people get year over year is under 3%, most people are earning less now than they did last year or the year before. More or less the same thing has happened in Canada because our manufacturing industry is inextricably linked to US businesses, and tie that to our surging dollar, and it doesn't really make sense to invest in manufacturing here... Even if we've been putting out a great product (*cough*cough*Oshawa GM Assembly plant*cough*).




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:14 PM on j-body.org
Well it generally takes a few years to move business out of the country, so something that started out with clinton signing the papers would take a few years to really have any effect, business wise so the companies moving out on bush's watch wouldnt nessicarily be his fault per say. Could he have stopped it ?possibly but being that it was just signed in a few years before and approved probably would have been difficult to reverse it. I think as far as that whole thing goes its going to fluctuate for several years until companies figure out whats best for them. I was reading an article today about call centers which moved overseas in droves after nafta are starting to work their way back into the u.s. because companies are realising its smarter business to pay a few extra bucks and hour for americans to deal with their american customers.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:00 AM on j-body.org
Which was something that most of us that worked on the front lines knew in the first place.

Pay a NA tech $18/hr, you get high service and happy customers, high flow-through.
Pay a Bangalore tech $4 a day, you get high flow-through, but nothing else.

money is money.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:33 AM on j-body.org
no its backwards, ever talk to some of those guys, its amazing how many of them are named joe or john or dave. you spend hours on the phone with them trying to get something simple worked out. definatly not a fast flow-thru lol.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:03 AM on j-body.org
You mean before or after you give them your credit card?

When I was at Compaq/HP when Sutherland group opened a call-center in Bangalore India they had awesome call times... like 2 minutes... and then someone twigged that it was because they were including their billing calls...




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: What was THE MAIN REASON behind 90's Boom.?
Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:13 PM on j-body.org
I was a Teenager and I spent ALL OF MY MONEY! That is where the Boost came from!



Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.

 

Start New Topic Advanced Search