I've been watching some documentary's and reading up a bit, and I've come to the conclusion that the Central Bank is the biggest waste of taxpayer money in the history of anything. I've read that all of your income tax goes to paying the national debt. Why don't governments create and issue their own money, as opposed to borrowing it from a bank. Money is only a number in a machine, and I think a morally just government would do a much better job of regulating money, as opposed to money being controlled by a central bank. Inflation is just a different way of saying increased debt. Why do we give 1/3 or more of our paychecks to pay off the national debt (income tax supposedly goes entirely into paying off the debt
). I don't know about you, but I don't think some fat rich guy's should be taking my hard earned money every week.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
It's extremely long and complicated to answer. All I can say is that the main reason for it is so that no President can suddenly order the reserve to print more money to artificially bolster the economy. Russia used to do that all the time, now look at it.
its all about checks and balances
(tabs) wrote:if you really want to know how our system works, this is a great little vid to show you.
its only 47 minutes long, but well worth the watch.
I've watched that, and that's mainly where my question originates from. I didn't know that was how money worked. From my understanding of that I've gathered that inflation is an increase in debt. More people taking out loans at interest, correct? The interest on the money borrowed is what causes inflation, correct? And all that money ends up in the hands of the banks, right?
I read somewhere that every dollar collected on income tax (which is an illegal tax in America, correct?) goes towards paying the national debt. That's a SERIOUS amount of money. That's enough to make me want to kill whoever is getting this money... But if I'm wrong and have been misinformed, I wouldn't mind learning a little more, of course.
Maybe I've been watching too many video's...
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
We cant just print more money and be done with it.
For one it needs to be backed up by something, such as gold, otherwise it weakens the US dollars to the Yen and Euro, and then overtime out money will be worthless, or worth a lot less than is printed on it.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
Rob S wrote:We cant just print more money and be done with it.
For one it needs to be backed up by something, such as gold, otherwise it weakens the US dollars to the Yen and Euro, and then overtime out money will be worthless, or worth a lot less than is printed on it.
you have no idea how the system is set up, do you? watch that video ^^^ i linked to. right now our monetary system isnt backed by anything. it IS worthless, and unfortunately the rest of the world is coming to this realization. we have made it valuable because it has been the standard dollar for trade, etc. but with iran selling oil in euros now, guess what that does? makes it so that people dont want our money anymore.
whatever: scary ass video, isnt it? i mean when you think about it, the system has got to collapse on itself--and soon. thats one of the biggest reasons i support ron paul. he wants to open a competing currency so that the federal reserve (which is a private business, not part of the government) wouldnt have a monopoly like it does now.
(tabs) wrote:Rob S wrote:We cant just print more money and be done with it.
For one it needs to be backed up by something, such as gold, otherwise it weakens the US dollars to the Yen and Euro, and then overtime out money will be worthless, or worth a lot less than is printed on it.
you have no idea how the system is set up, do you? watch that video ^^^ i linked to. right now our monetary system isnt backed by anything. it IS worthless, and unfortunately the rest of the world is coming to this realization. we have made it valuable because it has been the standard dollar for trade, etc. but with iran selling oil in euros now, guess what that does? makes it so that people dont want our money anymore.
whatever: scary ass video, isnt it? i mean when you think about it, the system has got to collapse on itself--and soon. thats one of the biggest reasons i support ron paul. he wants to open a competing currency so that the federal reserve (which is a private business, not part of the government) wouldnt have a monopoly like it does now.
EXACTLY!!! I can't believe people don't see this coming. I'm afraid that within my lifetime, my quality of life is going to go from what it is now, down below say... Chinese standards or worse. I totally support Ron Paul's idea behind a second currency... A more fairly run and better controlled currency. One that doesn't totally topple the whole Western World. I love the area I live, I hate the people that live in this area, but I don't want to leave Canada just because it sucks here in a few decades. Is it just recently these video's and knowledge about the corruption have surfaced? Or have people known these things for years? If it's recent, I have some hope... But if people have known for decades... I doubt we're a salvageable nation anymore due to people not taking this problem seriously. Honestly, if I counter fit $500 I would go to jail. These people have stolen soo much more, an unfathomable amount of wealth, and no one's doing anything? People should be put to death over this.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
rolls eyes
the american dollar and its monetary system will not collapse on itself
if that happened the whole worlds economy would go to the @!#$ter and it would take eternity to dig it out
Tracer Bullet wrote:rolls eyes
the american dollar and its monetary system will not collapse on itself
if that happened the whole worlds economy would go to the @!#$ter and it would take eternity to dig it out
youre a smart guy from what ive seen on these boards, so please dont let your nationalistic ego blind you. i love america and its principles, but we are in a decline and the chances are that it is going to only get worse. there are simple reasons for it too, one of them being our monetary system.
just the way it is set up is insane. the only way that our system sustains itself is by people getting more in debt. but that debt, once interest is applied, means that more money is OWED than is AVAILABLE. this means that in order for the system to work, an increasing number of people will be unable to pay off their debts, meaning more foreclosures and bankruptcies. that leads to the banks and loan companies accumulating more and more land and possessions until they eventually own it all.
it sounds crazy or far-fetched or even conspiracy-like, but if people would actually open their eyes and read up on it, it becomes glaringly obvious that we are in bad shape. and as i posted above, we are already starting to see a backlash by other countries. iran is going off the dollar for trading oil. thats bad @!#$ news. that means that other countries will have less of a reason to buy and horde our money (which is what has been going on for years...just ask china). when other countries do that to our money its good for us...it prevents inflation by taking it out of circulation in our own country, allowing the banks to keep printing more money. but what do you think will happen once that money becomes worthless to other countries? they exchange it for a different currency, sending it flooding back to our market, making for insane inflation and a complete devaluation of our money. bad, bad news people.
another thing that most people dont realize is that the federal reserve is a private company....! its not owned by the federal government at all!! here is a quick lowdown on how banks make (yes they MAKE the money, even though the govt PRINTS the paper and metal representations):
you sign a promissory note (loan). the bank CREATES the money. as in, magically conjures it into existence. as in there is nothing to back it up and they just plug the numbers into the computer and there they are. the banks are NOT loaning out money that is on deposit from other people!!!
if you dont want to watch that video, then i'll see if i can do a write up somehow on the math behind how the banks work......
whatever: yeah, people have known for years. but with the money comes power. its just becoming more widely known now due to the internet and the fact that we are finally seeing the negative side effects to the way weve been doing things.
Tabs, you do realize that the main way that banks make money isn't through conjuring it up, but by actually investing in markets like money markets, stocks/bonds/futures/commodities, and by charging fees, paying out less interest than prime, charging more for borrowing money for individuals and businesses... right?
Banks make far more money on the foreign exchange (meaning non-US dollars, meaning gold-backed economies) and stock markets...
The problem with going to the Gold "solution" as Ron Paul likes to call it, is that there is a finite amount of gold on the earth, and there is a high liklihood that a large enough strike will kill the value (look up Bre-X, they fraudulently touted a gigantic gold strike in Sumatra, and the price of gold took a dump...). The other thing is that gold rich nations (like a lot of South American and African countries) would have heavier sway and be more prone to take-over. This means 2 things: hoarders would be able to artificially manipulate the worth of gold, and those without gold are screwed.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Tabs, you do realize that the main way that banks make money isn't through conjuring it up, but by actually investing in markets like money markets, stocks/bonds/futures/commodities, and by charging fees, paying out less interest than prime, charging more for borrowing money for individuals and businesses... right?
Banks make far more money on the foreign exchange (meaning non-US dollars, meaning gold-backed economies) and stock markets...
The problem with going to the Gold "solution" as Ron Paul likes to call it, is that there is a finite amount of gold on the earth, and there is a high liklihood that a large enough strike will kill the value (look up Bre-X, they fraudulently touted a gigantic gold strike in Sumatra, and the price of gold took a dump...). The other thing is that gold rich nations (like a lot of South American and African countries) would have heavier sway and be more prone to take-over. This means 2 things: hoarders would be able to artificially manipulate the worth of gold, and those without gold are screwed.
Well I'm no expert, but what if instead of banks having all the money to play around with, wouldn't it be better for the country if the government was issuing loans and using their funds to invest and funnel that money back into the economy, instead of a private business getting ahold of it?
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
Why not have the government own all businesses as well?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Ding
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
i fully believe in capitalism and usually support less government. but there are certain things that should be left to government control: the coining of money is definitely one of them. it isnt totalitarianism by any means and you are really asking for trouble when its privatized (look at our current situation)
Could I get an explanation as to why the federal reserve system isn't a bad thing? I've been told why it is. You seem to think otherwise gam. Explaination as to why private business working the money system is better than a government system would be nice. I try to be open minded, even a couple links would be good.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
Why it's good? well let's have a look at what was happening previous to the Federal Reserve System:
- you had a currency that was not elastic, so it couldn't grow much, and conversely, if it took a hit, it was always a major hit.
- 1907-1913 the US banking system took a number of heavy hits, and it was enough to unsettle investor confidence. (these currency scares happen today, but they're generally minor)
- The government had no control over how a Bank operated (like selling stock at 25% of it's value taking that you'll pay the other 75% when you sell the stock).
Once the reserve was implemented:
- there was an elasticity to US currency
- there was a way to enforce implementation of fiscal policy
- the interest rate could be centrally regulated
- there was a bail-out or lender of last-resort in place to keep the banks feet under them.
The Federal Reserve system reports directly to the US Congress, and the board is appointed by the White House, so I don't follow how it is that it's called a private business. The government itself issuing out money by loans, and individually enforcing payment and setting each one's interest rate is no better than creating another IRS. This is the better solution because it accomplishes the same amount of work without putting the same amount of money into it.
The Central Reserve banks are there partially so you don't get a repeat of the Great Depression (ie, banks lending more money than they actually had) by acting as the government's bank (in order to loan out money to Private Banks) and partially in order to implement and enforce fiscal policy. The Central Bank reports to the Dept. of Treasury and the Federal Reserve System, and they both report to Congress, there's oversight, if not transparency...
I also never once said that the private sector would do a better job at administering the money, they've managed to utterly screw every other industry that was once federally regulated, so I sincerely doubt it'd be any better privately administered. I will however say that while there are problems, it's a lot better than having an inflexible dollar.
As for links:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_bank
Both Wikis are heavily supported with outside links.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
there is no reason that the govt couldnt run the banking system the same way as the fed reserve. only instead of paying interest on the money they borrow, they wouldnt have to, which would reduce the national debt and with the amount of money (interest and other) that they would MAKE, the govt could provide any and all things that our country would ever need. even though i dont like the idea of nationalized health care, at least in this scenario there would be enough excess money to fund it and many other works and programs to benefit the public.
I suppose I can see both sides of the argument. I'm satisfied with the responses. If anyone cares to add more though, I'm always ready to try learn.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
I just skimmed through this and for the most part some of you are correct. I didn't notice if anyone noted that China holds nearly ALL of our debt. Don't think for one minute they are not ramping up to call that debt in. They did it once before. This time it could and mostly likely be fatal to our economy. Yes if we do fail we will screw the worlds economy up. The world bank is actually behind most of what is going on. We are slowly being set up for a one money world. Europe has already been set up. Most Americans are oblivious to this. Sad but true. I would direct you to many sites throughout the net but, I have been warned by myspace and several other sites for posting links to what they call radical yet I call them the truth. Do any of you even know that President Bush has signed into law that come November he does not have to leave office if and stay as long as he wants if something he deems "detrimental" to the U.S. is happening. Why do you think this election season and everything going on is such a mess? He does not want to leave. Mind you this is not why he may not leave the White House. Who would stop him anyways? Why do you think most of our Military are all over the freakin world? Why do you think U.N. Soldiers train in the U.S.? How many of you are aware that throughout Europe you are watched by camera everywhere at all time? so much tot the point that if you even litter you can be personally addressed over loud speaker to pick it up. Yes it is happening. Do you know that there are families walking around the U.s. with micro chip implants monitoring them? They are doing it willing as test (rats). All of you had be getting set to get your passports whether you will be leaving the country or not. While the sheep(mainstream America) are being dumbed down and distracted by stupid things like crazy primaries and prostitute enjoying Governors bigger things are going on. It's cool that there are those of you on here paying attention somewhat. Look, Read, Watch. I am not talking about the bulls**t mainstream media either.
I didn't need to see that in my post... Hairy... @!#$ faggot I'm trying to learn just because some guy who thinks he know's the truth in here and is ranting on, and would get shut down all the same, but no, you gotta get it locked. @!#$ you. I was getting some nice information out of it no. Idiots figure it's not important to learn this @!#$. I'm tryin to, but you gotta come in here and mess something worth reading up. Thanks. Seriously.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
Just to stay on topic. It doesn't matter whether or not our money is backed by gold. Each dollar carries a bit of value linked to the likelyhood that a continued worth is inevitable. The more produced, the less value is carried, hence inflation. The united states isn't liquid. We devalue the dollar everyday. With a bad enough position, we'll be helpless. Give it time.
*****************************************************************
"The J's weren't designed to be sports cars, the suspension sucks, the brakes are tiny, and the target market for our car doesn't need to be able to do any more than 65mph." - Shifted
A more accurate observation has never been typed. These should be the starting points before any serious performance modification. What's the point of making a serious performer if you can't control it's power?
Thanks to whoever deleted that post ... You can delete my rage too please... It just butted me out that someone wants to wreck my thread.
And Xavier, everything is like that. Supply and demand. If there's too much of something, and no one wants it (ie. too much U.S. dollars, but the U.S. isn't exporting enough to make people want to buy the U.S. dollar in order to buy U.S. goods, the dollar will devalue.) Right now it seems like the dollar is slipping due to the United States not exporting enough goods, while importing massive amounts of goods from overseas. Doesn't help that it looks like the manufacturing sector is taking a big hit lately. All I hear about is job layoffs and how hard the next few years are going to be. I can only hope they're wrong. Or that I get a decent job and hold it while the world is becoming a mess.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
great to see that nasty ass picture got deleted
that was quite the surprise when i scrolled down earlier to check this thread
methinks that ol' john boy got a ban for that one lol
