How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom? - Page 3 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:51 AM on j-body.org
Just posting it up as info.

i say we kill as many as we can over there. kill enough and they should, should, learn not to @!#$ with us.

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry



Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Saturday, May 10, 2008 9:15 PM on j-body.org
You do realize that that's their mentality, and that was the Crusader's mentality as well... right?




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:37 PM on j-body.org
Correct, but what else will stop them from killing all of us, infadels?

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Sunday, May 11, 2008 5:49 PM on j-body.org
Ideological change? Redress of grievances?

You know that Islam is the excuse to Mass-murder, that the problem is cultural right? There's millions of Muslims elsewhere in the world that manage to not visit war on the rest of us.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Monday, May 12, 2008 8:42 AM on j-body.org
My vote is still outlawing all organized religion. But of course, I think i'm the only one insightful enough to realize that if they are trying to sell "God", or the diety du jure, then odds are they are a complete bastard.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Monday, May 12, 2008 10:45 AM on j-body.org
Strazca- i agree wholeheartedly.

Now as to the military thing, i believe the most effective way to combat it would be privatized military. Bounty hunters, if you will. Let them go after the terrorist cells. Not only will that give only those who really want to be there a chance, but it is in the same way the best way to fight small groups: with other small groups.

Right now we are doing exactly what the british did in the recolutionary war. Walking in in out proverbial bright red coats shoulder to shoulder in plain sight with tactics way too outdated for this kind of conflict.



I'll eventually take the time to put something here. I swear.
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:53 PM on j-body.org
Not outdated, but our hands are tied by the white house\congress, with the ROE, (rules of engagement).

And look at how we treated Black watter....

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Wednesday, May 14, 2008 6:17 AM on j-body.org
The real problem is that we are at war with the same people we are trying to protect...... it's harder to fight certain groups of people instead of just a country.

And yes..... organized religion was one of the worst ideas that man ever thought up.





Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:30 AM on j-body.org
Our hands may be tied, Taetched, but really, should we even be over there in the first place?

My opinion:

If Saddam was supposed to be ousted because he's a complete bastard, it should have been done by the populace.
All we are doing over there was protecting an "interest", mainly oil.
There was no legitimate threat to the US proper or it's citizens over here caused by Iraq.
Yet we sent our troops over there, put them in harms way when we had no real threat to America from Iraq proper, and destabalaized a region which is now a hotbed for terrorism.

That right there is Imperialism.

I'm not one to debate ROE, and I'm not one to tell the Airmen, Seamen, Marines, or Soldiers that they're wrong, babykillers, etc., because yeah, part of their job is following orders, and I respect what they do. My issue is we have to change this from the top down, and that means giving the Whitehouse and the Capitol a major enema to clean the @!#$ out of it. After all, it's them that is responsible and the ones calling the shots.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:44 AM on j-body.org
^^^ Has the right idea.

The original idea (after the 1991 Gulf War) was to arm the Shi'ites in the south and create a populace uprising against Saddam. The Shi'ites rose up, and were crushed because the support promised (from the US, specifically GHW Bush) didn't materialize. Had they support, I'd believe there would be a friendly Gov't in the area seperate from the Iranians.

And cleaning out the capital: Start with a firehose in the Whitehouse, start in the west wing and make your way east, then go to the big domed buildings... continue on.





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Wednesday, May 14, 2008 6:56 PM on j-body.org
none of you can copy my SN, and learn that thats my name? is it hard?


I agree, we should have done it right, and done what we promised, but we didn't. i don't know why, probably congress or something. but he still violated the peace treaty, thus making the 91 war active.

it needed to be done. i think one major mistake was dis-banding the standing army, what we should have done was like we did with Germany, after WW2, have them police there own people, and guard there own boarders. but instead we just gave trained milatents with family a reason to hate us more, and find another way to feed there family's.

we still get thanked over there (not talking about stuff you would hear about, I'm talking about a kid coming up to a Marine\ soldier and saying it, or his parents) . that is reason enough for me the think we are doing well.

Chris



"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry



Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:23 AM on j-body.org
Are we defending US freedom by being in Iraq? I don't think we are.

Sure, Saddam was a b@$tard, but personally, I think the time we went over to Iraq, wasn't the right time. Not when we were supposed to be going into Afganistan to hunt down Osama. That at the time should have been our main focus, and if Saddam needed to be dealt with later, then fine.

In my humble opinion, fighting a war on terror, is like fighting the war on drugs in a sense. It's a battle that can't be won. If people want drugs, and as long as there's demand for it, people are always going to find ways to get them in. But with the war on terror, the best way to fight a war as that, is to have the least amount of people hate us as possible. The less people hate you, the less chance you stand of them attacking you. The less people we pi$$ off, the safer overall we will be.

We're fighting people in the middle east who wear no uniforms. Kids with guns, women with bombs strapped to them, whatever. I know we're not hearing the complete truth from the media as to what's happening over there. In my sociology class, our professor had us watch this documentary from HBO called "Live Day memories: Iraq", in which it interviewed many young soldiers who were shot, blown up, lost limbs, a young marine shot in the head with permanent brain damage and in a wheel chair with his mom next to him, still proudly singing the Marine song, and still wanting to be a Drill Sargent, yet barely able to function at the level of a young child. A young girl missing an arm, who had photos she'd taken while she was over there with people blown apart by bombs (which they showed in their entire detail). By the end of the documentary the entire class was in tears. War isn't pretty period.

I know we can't just pull out of Iraq and have it end pretty... if we did such, it would only be worse in the long run. I just think we should seriously rethink how our approach is to certain things in the future. When you're dealing with different cultures and different ways of thinking, you need to look at that before interacting with people.

I'm not sure how true it is, but I remember my Sociology Professor saying something about one of the Iraq wars, I'm not sure if it was this one or the one in 91, but she was lecturing us on cultural differences, and how one hand gesture in one culture can mean something totally different in another. For example, our hand gesture for "ok", means "I'll kill you" in another (I forget what it was exactly, I can look it up if necessary). But she was saying how one problem we had with one of hte Iraq wars was that we were unprepared on how to interact with them culturally. How our hand gesture for "stop" meant "go" to them or something, and people were being shot because they were advancing when we were trying to tell them to stop, only we hadn't realized this right away?

We are not a culturally educated Nation. I know going through school, every single year (with the exception of 1 1/2 to 2 years of it) was all spent on American History. 6th grade we learned about Ancient history, and either 8th or 9th we spent only half a school year on "World Cultures". We are culturally ignorant. If we spent more time learning about other people and cultures, I think we'd have a much better and easier time in dealing with different countries and cultures. How can anyone expect anyone else to interact well with others when you know little to nothing about them? I could go on and on...


I will however end with this. Differences of opinions or not, I try my best to be open minded and listen to other points of views and prospectives. I want to learn the truth and base my opinions on fact, rather than speculation or false information. I try to do my best, and if I have wrong info please correct me.

Most importantly though, to those who are serving / have served in our military, I salute you. Even if I don't agree with WHY we're over there at the moment to begin with, my thoughts and prayers are with you all. You are doing something I know myself could never do, and I have the most respect for what you do. I don't know if any amount of training could prepare me to shoot a child and not think twice about it, to have to look at someone and shoot them, to have to lose friends due to enemy fire, or any other possible scenario you could come up with. (Other than the fact I physically couldn't do it because of my knee, or the fact that I have PTSD already...). Thank you for doing what you do




Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:32 PM on j-body.org
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:none of you can copy my SN, and learn that thats my name? is it hard?


I agree, we should have done it right, and done what we promised, but we didn't. i don't know why, probably congress or something. but he still violated the peace treaty, thus making the 91 war active.

it needed to be done. i think one major mistake was dis-banding the standing army, what we should have done was like we did with Germany, after WW2, have them police there own people, and guard there own boarders. but instead we just gave trained milatents with family a reason to hate us more, and find another way to feed there family's.

we still get thanked over there (not talking about stuff you would hear about, I'm talking about a kid coming up to a Marine\ soldier and saying it, or his parents) . that is reason enough for me the think we are doing well.

Chris
Can't speak for Keeper, but Taetsch isn't a garden variety username, plus you post sporadically enough that it's like we get much practise .

Here's the thing: the 1991 war wasn't to do anything other than get Iraq out of Kuwait. Further UN sanctions were violated (by both sides, Don't forget that UN approved Aid convoys from UAE and Jordan were halted in 1992, Shi'ite uprisings were not supported (that wasn't Congress, that was GHW Bush and the CIA's doing) etc, etc, etc). Iraq was an exercise in projection of power, and it's not a good one.

Disbanding the standing army was a bad idea, but it was one in a series of really dumb ideas. Germany worked because it wasn't just the US doing the work (it was the UK, Canada, and France as well), and it was co-ordinated well in advance. Iraq.. well, if you ever get a chance to hear some of the stupendously assenine ideas that were coming down from DOD Chair Rumsfeld were... well, tell me how sane of an idea it is to fight your way into Iraq, and then fight your way out?

Anyhow, realistically, the militants that are in the country are one of a few different stripes (either Fedayeen Hussein, Shi'a, Sunni, Al-qaeda) and the lightning rod is US presence, with borders that are as secure as a sieve. well, it's not a real wonder why there are big problems over there.

I'm not saying that troops aren't doing well, the issue isn't the jobs that troops are doing, because it's roundly excellent. I have never had any qualms with the jobs that Marines/Seamen/Soldiers/Airmen (provided they don't start colouring outside the lines)... I have a very serious problem with the way the war was started, and the supposed evidence... I mean, hindsight is 20/20, but at this point I suspect that it's a good idea to start rebuilding in earnest, and set a deadline for withdrawal or handing over to the UN peace-keeping forces. It's not about cutting and running, but making it clear that the US won't be there forever...

But who am I to say... I'm just the know-it-all Canuck




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:42 AM on j-body.org
^^GAM pretty much hit the nail on the head with it.

I think the biggest thing some people need to wake up and realize is that for this war, much of the national anti-war people are *not* like they were for Viertnam, and realize that the troops are doing their jobs, it's the government and the brass that are screwing the pooch.

Hell, I'm against this war, but i would ram a forklift up someone's urethra if I saw them spitting on a disabled vet from this war.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:07 PM on j-body.org
^ True that. You may not agree with the politics behind the war, but you gotta support the troops.


wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.

LOL
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Thursday, May 22, 2008 9:06 AM on j-body.org
^^Well, the ones that aren't card carrying members of the douche crew.

See also: the movie "Casualties of War".


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Thursday, May 22, 2008 4:40 PM on j-body.org
Fallen Angel... I saw the Live Day thing on HBO.... it was hosted by James Gandolfini (Tony Soprano). Watching that reminded me of how lucky I am... although when I woke up this morning I could barely move, realized that I missed my VA appointment, and havn't been able to sleep for over 36 hours now because of the pain..... although.... I'm one of the lucky ones.

When I see people injured that badly.... and most of them still have their military "core" values.... they aren't whining.... and they are less concerned with themselves than they are about there squad mates and the mission.... .. well.... I'm at a loss for words.... although I understand.







Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Thursday, May 22, 2008 7:16 PM on j-body.org
Weebel wrote:Fallen Angel... I saw the Live Day thing on HBO.... it was hosted by James Gandolfini (Tony Soprano). Watching that reminded me of how lucky I am... although when I woke up this morning I could barely move, realized that I missed my VA appointment, and havn't been able to sleep for over 36 hours now because of the pain..... although.... I'm one of the lucky ones.

When I see people injured that badly.... and most of them still have their military "core" values.... they aren't whining.... and they are less concerned with themselves than they are about there squad mates and the mission.... .. well.... I'm at a loss for words.... although I understand.


i feel you brother, i am glad to have the same 10 stock fingers and equal amount of toes, when I saw the Live Day I kept thinking back to the people I was able to help put back together and the ones we couldn't.





Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Friday, May 23, 2008 9:31 AM on j-body.org
^^And that's the very thing. The troops are out there fighting for something they believe in. That's commendable.

The politicians are hiding in the capitol, and are the cause of the mess.

See, as far as I'm concerned, the troops are doing their job to the best of their ability. It's up to me to do my job as a citizen to the best of my ability to keep the politicians in check so they DON'T send the troops to fight a war of agenda, and only fight wars where the welfare of the populace of the country in jeopardy--and no, paying $5 for a gallon of gas is not putting you in jeopardy.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Monday, July 14, 2008 2:23 PM on j-body.org
ill tell you now... the troops that are fighting in iraq arent fighting in anything that they believe in. we are fighting because we are told to. it sucks to have to go over there and you dont know who the enemy is. you can have women and children walk up to you think they are being friendly as a distraction. next thing you know theres a sniper shooting at you, or there strapped with a bomb. stupid things like that. there is no war, as far as im concerned, just helping out people in need from terrorists. theres a lot of iraqies that ive spoken to (of course with an interpreter) that have said that there sick of all the bombs, sick of all the gun fire, sick of living scared in there own homes that one day they wouldnt wake up. the terrorists that are out there will kill for anything, even there own people. the only thing we are doing there is trying to help clean up the streets. make it so they can live a normal life again, and it sucks. everyday you hear of people dieing. ive lost a lot of my closest friends due to the start of this and everytime we sit around and talk about how sick we are of going over there because the same thing happens everytime.

as for the va... they can kiss my a$$ because all they do to injured vet's is try to figure a way to not pay someone the money that they diserve. one of my friends was hit by an ied, took his right hand off. he cant write anymore because of it. all the va did was say that it wasnt a combat related accident so they wont pay him for his losses. this happened almost a year ago and he is still fighting to get his money.
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Monday, July 14, 2008 4:06 PM on j-body.org
Wade Jarvis wrote:I was refering to the price we are paying at the pumps for gas. It is not three times what is was although it will be soon as the cost we are paying for gas has not caught up with what we are paying for crude oil yet. but that is a whole different topic.



idk about you... but I know for a fact before 9/11 I was paring like 1.20 a gallon and now its almost 4$

You cant win this one lol



LE61T PTE6262 Powered


Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Monday, July 14, 2008 8:27 PM on j-body.org
... and we are still exporting food stuffs over there, for cheep, and they are still paying 16 cents a gallon over there.

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:22 AM on j-body.org
Weebel wrote:The real problem is that we are at war with the same people we are trying to protect...... it's harder to fight certain groups of people instead of just a country.


This is what I was thinking. i kind of feel like having our military over there is nothing short of a lost cause. What has it really achieved anyway? What gets me is that our president had a plan to get into Iraq with no real plan on getting us out.

If you think about it, we're still a country that has some of the cheapest gas prices. Last time I visited my parents back in England, gas was outrageous. If only our country conformed to using smaller, more fuel efficient cars like them, we wouldn't be bitching as much.

All in all, patriotism kind of makes me feel sick to my stomach. I do not like the direction the American government has been going in.


-Markus
2002 Yellow Cavalier LS Sport

Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 12:21 PM on j-body.org
^^^ yup
Re: How is anyone in Iraq defending US Freedom?
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:01 PM on j-body.org
Cheep!

its less then 25 cents over there.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


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