Unfortunately, weebel, doing so would be undermining freedom of information. Peer-to-peer networks can be used for legitimate means.
The biggest way to combate this is to make it unworhtwhile to steal it. If your average song was encoded to, say, 30mb rather than 3, and people were convinced that a 3mb stereo mp3 file was massively inferior to a 30mb 5.1 file, you'd have less and less people stealing.
Plus, you also have DL times to consider.
It's the same reason why the television and movie people are freaking over nothing. They fear people will steal HD content (why do you think no american cable companies support cablecard technology?). Think for a moment: Even compressed with lossy compression at a reasonable way, how much bandwidth would it take to encode, and send realtime, a 1080p 5.1 tv program? Answer: a hell of a lot more than your average person's DSL/Cablemodem could do. Even downloading a file like that, say an average 20 minute TV show would be utterly massive.
The answer for the RIAA/MPAA is not to attack those that download, upload, or the enablers. it's to stay ahead of the technology curve and make it not wortth peoples' while to do it.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
yeah but time really means nothing for most people who have cable and dsl and can just set your machine to download whatever u want and come back when its done. guy at work would just download movie after movie, leave work on friday and come back monday with tons downloaded. time isnt a big deal if you can just click a button and then go do something else. not to mention people dont seem to care about quality. look at camera phones and ipod for two huge examples. people dont care if the sound is a lesser quality even though i will say its starting to get close. but even so people will still download it at the lowest quality so they can have more songs on their ipod. same with camera phones. half the people i see taking pics anymore use a crappy camera phone which gives terrible quality but they do it anyway.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Is it stealing? Well, I didn't pay for it, and I should have. So yeah, I think it is. Do I feel bad for it? Not at all.
Quote:
Watching you parade around my bedroom in a thong was a little like watching sea lions mate.
Weebel - Unfortunately, for every peer-2-peer site you shut down, ten will take it's place. Everybody hates to be policed by RIAA, yet they won't Police themselves (by that I mean download some music/ buy some music). Illegal downloads are a serious problem, but I feel the solution to this problem lays somewhere in-between: bandwidth bottlenecks, responsible hosting providers, and consumer education.
Keeper - Whose going to pay for the technology precisely? The record labels? Most of us are broke thanks to illegal downloads. The electronics manufacturers? Why would they? They're making a killing off current technology. Consumers? ...Between 1080p, bluray, digital radio and cable they have enough upgrade expenses on their plate. Would upgraded technology detour illegal downloads? I didn't before; people will simply convert albums back to low fidelity before they post them to p2p sites.
lone_wolf - Ultimately, that's the problem.... utter lack of empathy and education. I have no idea what you do for a living, but rest assured I would feel bad stealing from you, yet the same can't be said on your behalf.
Our record label spends considerable money to build artist/brand awareness. That brand awareness puts my artists on tour, increases music volume,and it puts honest to goodness food on my artists tables. We work very hard to get the best rates on everything for our artists, we're frugal and savvy, not a year goes by where we don't have a juno nominated artist yet everyone at our company is struggling.
I can't recoup my expenses off physical CDs because CDs sales are dwindling along with the record shops that used to stock my product. We, literally, depend on itunes sales, and as such... we gear our campaigns for online sales now more than ever before. In other words, my company is putting real money into the online arena... the same arena people are using to download music for free. So stop being delusional; it's theft. Period.
[ o ][][][][][][][][ o ] coach built xj ( o \[][][][][][][]/ o ) hid wj
I never really thought it was that big a problem.... I guess from some of the smaller record labels it makes sense that it would be...... I think that most people think if they download some big name rock or rap stars music.... they already have soo much money that they won't notice a difference anyway.
Since this is such a problem... you would think that owners of peer to peer programs and such would be forced to regulate the content shared or be severely fined or shut down. Regardless of how hard it may be to actually govern it.
Urban, i think the biggest reason why people are so "delusional" as you put it is because they could give 2 @!#$s about the record companies. I'm one of those ass-holes. I care more about the artist themselves--especially in the amount that the artists would make per the cost of the CD. After all, it's you guys (not you specifically, but the record companies)who are charging us approx $20/CD, and giving the artists $1. Most of us would feel more comfortable if more of the money went to the artists.
After all, And this may be just me, but i would rather go to, say, Alexi Liaho, hand him $10, and have him burm me a copy of, say, "Bloodrunk" than fire off $15/20 to, say, Nuclear Blast and know that he is only going to see $1-2 at the most.
And "advertising" didn't enter into my love of Children Of Bodom, it was seeing a concert where they opened up for Dimmu Bogir, and borrwing my bro's CD. Even if it could be argued that the label set up the tour, i don't think that's worth over 90% of the profits.
Most other fans I know tend to think so as well.
Anyhow, as for my "hobby" (since I can't really equate in this argument), I could care less if someone takes one of my photos, downloads it, shares it with their friends, or whatever. I only have 2 things that would get me up in arms as much: Claiming the photo is theirs, and making a profit off of the photo without me getting a cut...
...
...
...
...
...
Ya know, i think i just came up with a solution. Don't go after the people d/l. You want to curb this...follow the money.
Okay, hear me out...you track downloads of your songs, Urban, and you track down hosting providers that host illegal download sites. They have to make cash somehow. If the site is paid for by someone that sets up the p2p site, the person hosting it has to pay for it somehow. If it's a "free" host, the sit host has to get paid for it somehow. Technically, they are making money of your (well, your artists') copyrighted material. They're entitled to a cut of it.
Go after a few site hosts with the standard contract about song rights usage to some of those sites you'd see them policing themseves better
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
the next time any one of you pays your bills online, i'm going to get your banking information and drain your accounts.
technically, i'm not stealing, because it's just ones and zeros.
HOWEVER!
if more bands would follow NINs lead and cut themselves lose from the middle man and actually utilize these ones and zeros (remix.nin.com) to get their music to their fans. then i think the RIAA, MPAA, and all the other XXAAs would have to just STFU.
Kevin: anyone dumb enough not to encrypt online finan cial or personal information, well, caveat emptor.
I do agree with you. After so many years of artists getting the shaft, and the proliferation with decent mixing equipment for the PC, i'm actually amazed the labels and whatnot haven't taken a bigger hit. After all, they could do simply what you suggested, mix it at home, and bam, master their own stuff. Throw in some decent copy protection and have everything avaliable for free much lower quality (i.e. demo tapes), and it could redefine the face of the music scene, as well as potentially getting rid of "pop" forms of every genre there is...
...i can dream, can't i??
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Keeper. Our CDs retail at 14.99. Roughly 33% of that is retail markup (something we can't control despite our best attempts). Our distributor - universal - takes a cut from the remaining $10 (they warehouse our product, and negotiate retail shelf space on our behalf). Illegal downloads actually put retialers in the drivers seat; they can demand shelf premiums and advertising commitments before they stock your product. The leftovers go for press & publicity, and - most importantly- Royalties. Of course, you could always purchase the album from itunes for under bucks to forgo the retail markup (itunes markup is much lower). You could also show your support, and download a song or two. I know most people will look at those numbers and gripe at the middleman's cut; I would like to remind those people that virtually every product they purchase today goes through middlemen. PS our label does not, I REPEAT, does not take a single penny from our artist's tour revenues. We earn revenue off physical and digital distribution along with negotiated licensing rights for music sold
Your advertising comments are actually commonplace. People have-been arguing the virtues of advertising since it's inception. One camp believes its a waste of money while the other believes it helps increase sales volume through brand awareness. If there's anything I took from my marketing and advertising majors it's this: If you build a better mousetrap, don't expect people to beat a path to your door until you make them aware you exist. I can easily substantiate our advertising expenditures
Regarding a P2P crackdown/ profit sharing. You have a noble idea, but I feel we could write a book regarding the difficulties implementing your profit model. For example, how do you collect revenue from a P2P site hosted in an unregulated country? Moreso, what's stopping a north american P2P site from relocating to an unregulated country to avoid payment.
[ o ][][][][][][][][ o ] coach built xj ( o \[][][][][][][]/ o ) hid wj
arghhh. I wish I could edit my posts.
Keeper. Our CDs retail at 14.99. Roughly 33% of that is retail markup (something we can't control despite our best attempts). Our distributor - universal - takes a cut from the remaining $10 (they warehouse our product, and negotiate retail shelf space on our behalf). Illegal downloads actually put retialers in the drivers seat; they can demand shelf premiums and advertising commitments before they stock your product. The leftovers go for press & publicity, and - most importantly- Royalties. Of course, you could always purchase the album from itunes for under
ten bucks to forgo the retail markup (itunes markup is much lower). You could also show your support, and download a song or two. I know most people will look at those numbers and gripe at the middleman's cut; I would like to remind those people that virtually every product they purchase today goes through middlemen. PS our label does not, I REPEAT, does not take a single penny from our artist's tour revenues. We earn revenue off physical and digital distribution along with negotiated licensing rights for music sold
for commercials, television, etc...
Your advertising comments are actually commonplace. People have-been arguing the virtues of advertising since it's inception. One camp believes its a waste of money while the other believes it helps increase sales volume through brand awareness. If there's anything I took from my marketing and advertising majors it's this: If you build a better mousetrap, don't expect people to beat a path to your door until you make them aware you exist. I can easily substantiate our advertising expenditures
through our sales history. Projects with a moderate advertising budget consistently sell more volume
Regarding a P2P crackdown/ profit sharing. You have a noble idea, but I feel we could write a book regarding the difficulties implementing your profit model. For example, how do you collect revenue from a P2P site hosted in an unregulated country? Moreso, what's stopping a north american P2P site from relocating to an unregulated country to avoid payment.
[ o ][][][][][][][][ o ] coach built xj ( o \[][][][][][][]/ o ) hid wj
Urban: As an aside, has your label considered opening a virtual store in order to forgo the retaillers and the distributors?
I only ask because:
1: I'd think it's becoming the natural progression
2: It would help minimize initial outlay of cash for production of the album,
3: iTunes only pays out about 11 CENTS to the artist per download any how.
Also, have you got a link for your label's site?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM - We sell physical product through our site; we direct digital sales to itunes. Having said that, we welcome any additional forms of digital distribution channeled through our network.
urbnet.com - we started as an online urban publication back in 99
urbnet.com/records - our records site
urbnet.com/shop - this page will acquaint people with our roster.... so by all means
tabs... feel free to download some 1s and 0s from us as well. It's not stealing because we're not actually human beings with actual bills.
[ o ][][][][][][][][ o ] coach built xj ( o \[][][][][][][]/ o ) hid wj
everyone is in agreement that the artists are the ones getting the shaft when it comes to the money via the record label and the itunes.
but you're downloading their songs and not paying a cent.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:everyone is in agreement that the artists are the ones getting the shaft when it comes to the money via the record label and the itunes.
That's open to debate. I've been in this business for eight years... in which time I've seen my fair share of crooked labels
AND greedy artists. It's not as one-side as you might think. In the end, you must remember that all businesses have their problems, but politics aside... if you like what a company is offering than you should pay them something for their goods or service.
[ o ][][][][][][][][ o ] coach built xj ( o \[][][][][][][]/ o ) hid wj
We just need to go back to vinyl..... have you ever tried taking a record and converting it to MP3.s on a CD..... it's a pain in the ass... I know I've done it (so I could listen to BTO in my car LOL) I later just bought the same album in CD form though.
The real way to end all this downloading would be to think of a way to use a form of media that is impossible to be copied from it's original source.
I'm talking about being "physically" impossible... not this piracy code crap they put in CD's so I can't even play them on my PC without it locking up for 3 days.
So long as there's analog input/output, nothing is truly "copy protected."
----------
2000 Cavalier Coupe, 138k miles, 2.2 Auto, Silver (alive)
1999 Cavalier Sedan, 237k miles, 2.2 Auto, White (dead)
Weebel: as long as it is supposed to be listened to, it can be pirated.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Weebel: as long as it is supposed to be listened to, it can be pirated.
I know..... I've spent most my life fiquring out ways to do stuff like that...... I've always been into audio and video editing.
My point was that unless we come up with a technology that can do that, people will continue to copy things...... the only real way to end piracy is to make it impossible to do.... and if we cant do that.... than piracy will always be here.
Basically.... people will always do this..... regardless of how much people say it's stealing or wrong.... so get used to it and find a way to work around it.
Within a month of the Unpirateable format coming out, it's gonna get cracked. I think it took a couple months once a copy-protected audio format popped up before they were cracked. That's the nature of the game, AACS was broken in what.. 6 months of introduction?
I guess piracy is always going to be here.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
