M-1 Erma Jean wrote:You know what GOODWRENCH @!#$ OFF!

seriously you are so pissed off at not having enough money it is redicoulous. I was taught to work hard and make a way. My grandfather did it from literally nothing and he got to that oh so terrible top half you pompous ignorant ass.

He was soo terrible that when he and his wife died 4 million yea 4 million dollars went to the government I really doubt you will ever pay taxes enough in your life to chip away at a quarter of it and If you do or don't I don't care it isnt my business. However that little demonstration of money to the government can help to show how the fortune my mother has and has worked for as well gives more money to the government than most Americans ever will.

So screw off all of you really think that the upper class doesn't pay enough. Not to mention the fact that they recieve little in governmental help because they don't need it so once again they help out more than you do.

Really you hate taxes just like the next guy and guess what that next guy may be a multi millionaire and neither one of you likes having your money taken away. You want equality and fairness fine everyone should pay the same amount. That is fairness the same amount of cookies for everyone just like in preschool.

Get off it if you hate not having more money work harder save your money and invest it. BUt CHRIST I am so sick of hearing you bash on the wealthy and how terrible they are when they give more than you do. OH and most of those terriible evil horrible people give the majority of funding to charities and organizations that improve this country and other peoples lives.

Most of these statements are true up to a point, but the fact is that the Wealthy don't get there because they work hard, no more than a General got there because he was a better soldier than all the Captains, Majors and Colonels he passed over for the job. You succeed by working hard? Yes, but there is a limit to this success, after that it becomes a political game of musical chairs. Not everyone can be a millionaire. Not everyone can be a movie star. Not everyone can be successful, because that negates the very concept of success, which is to be better than other people.

A friend of mine who's a millionaire told me that he personally went bankrupt 3 times in his life, each time he made his fortune back not because he worked harder than anyone else would have in his situation but because he knew people who could give him jobs, reccomendations and guarantee loans.

Or hell, take me. If I went to Hollywood tomorrow I could probably spend the weekend partying with celebrities. Not because I'm such a dashing romeo, but because I know people who know people. You probably couldn't do the same, not because you're not "good" enough. you're a good dude, but just because you don't have my contacts.

Personally, I don't have problems with the wealthy, although I'm somewhat disgusted by the super duper uberrich. It's like watching a grotesquely fat man eat when he's not hungry. That's another thing my rich friend taught me; that really rich people don't care about money anymore. They just want to be richer than their friends. Money just becomes how you score yourself against your enemies. That's why they squander money on retarded purchases, to show off. Nothing says "I'm rich!" than a man who can wipe his a** with thousand dollar bills.

Fact is though, the rich don't pay enough taxes. How do I know this? Simple, the rich and powerful make the rules and they sure as hell won't live like chumps out of a social conscience. I'd do the same if the roles were reversed.

It's a dog eat dog world. The rich want to exploit the poor, the poor want to steal from the rich. That's how it goes.

Knoxfire Esquire wrote:

M-1 Erma Jean wrote:You know what GOODWRENCH @!#$ OFF!

seriously you are so pissed off at not having enough money it is redicoulous. I was taught to work hard and make a way. My grandfather did it from literally nothing and he got to that oh so terrible top half you pompous ignorant ass.

He was soo terrible that when he and his wife died 4 million yea 4 million dollars went to the government I really doubt you will ever pay taxes enough in your life to chip away at a quarter of it and If you do or don't I don't care it isnt my business. However that little demonstration of money to the government can help to show how the fortune my mother has and has worked for as well gives more money to the government than most Americans ever will.

So screw off all of you really think that the upper class doesn't pay enough. Not to mention the fact that they recieve little in governmental help because they don't need it so once again they help out more than you do.

Really you hate taxes just like the next guy and guess what that next guy may be a multi millionaire and neither one of you likes having your money taken away. You want equality and fairness fine everyone should pay the same amount. That is fairness the same amount of cookies for everyone just like in preschool.

Get off it if you hate not having more money work harder save your money and invest it. BUt CHRIST I am so sick of hearing you bash on the wealthy and how terrible they are when they give more than you do. OH and most of those terriible evil horrible people give the majority of funding to charities and organizations that improve this country and other peoples lives.

Most of these statements are true up to a point, but the fact is that the Wealthy don't get there because they work hard, no more than a General got there because he was a better soldier than all the Captains, Majors and Colonels he passed over for the job. You succeed by working hard? Yes, but there is a limit to this success, after that it becomes a political game of musical chairs. Not everyone can be a millionaire. Not everyone can be a movie star. Not everyone can be successful, because that negates the very concept of success, which is to be better than other people.

A friend of mine who's a millionaire told me that he personally went bankrupt 3 times in his life, each time he made his fortune back not because he worked harder than anyone else would have in his situation but because he knew people who could give him jobs, reccomendations and guarantee loans.

Or hell, take me. If I went to Hollywood tomorrow I could probably spend the weekend partying with celebrities. Not because I'm such a dashing romeo, but because I know people who know people. You probably couldn't do the same, not because you're not "good" enough. you're a good dude, but just because you don't have my contacts.

Personally, I don't have problems with the wealthy, although I'm somewhat disgusted by the super duper uberrich. It's like watching a grotesquely fat man eat when he's not hungry. That's another thing my rich friend taught me; that really rich people don't care about money anymore. They just want to be richer than their friends. Money just becomes how you score yourself against your enemies. That's why they squander money on retarded purchases, to show off. Nothing says "I'm rich!" than a man who can wipe his a** with thousand dollar bills.

Fact is though, the rich don't pay enough taxes. How do I know this? Simple, the rich and powerful make the rules and they sure as hell won't live like chumps out of a social conscience. I'd do the same if the roles were reversed.

It's a dog eat dog world. The rich want to exploit the poor, the poor want to steal from the rich. That's how it goes.

hope your not basing your entire belief system related to the rich based on your one friend. just as there are allot of uber rich people out there who dont care about the poor there are uber rich out there that care allot and donate allot and help allot.





http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

Everyone is different, and we all have our noble sides. However, if you strip down all the psychological complexity and just look at the most base motivation of human beings, I'm pretty much dead on.

I probably make people sound like monsters, and I didn't mean it like that. However, I stick by my guns that a lot of poor people are secretely envious of the rich and that the rich would secretely like nothing better than for the poor to shut up and do as they're told.

It's not about what people think, it's about how we think. We're hardwired to want to win and conquer our enemies no matter how iffy the morality of that could be. It's an old survival instinct that didn't just shut off because we started walking upright and wearing suits.

Another thing as well, since I haven't talked much about what I think of this stimulus package. Personally, I don't think anyone in government has the right to vote on how that much taxpayer money is spent. I think that they should take a whole week to convince the population of it's merits and drawbacks and then have everyone in the country vote. Only then would this be fair. Otherwise it's a bunch of powerful people choosing to give a bunch of rich people money.

Remember... they vote, you pay.

Quote:

(CNN) -- A coalition of Democrats and some Republicans reached a compromise that trimmed billions in spending from an earlier version of the Senate economic stimulus bill.
Senators worked late into the night to trim billions from the original stimulus bill.

Senators worked late into the night to trim billions from the original stimulus bill.

CNN obtained, from a Democratic leadership aide, a list of some programs that have been cut, either entirely or partially:

Partially cut:

• $3.5 billion for energy-efficient federal buildings (original bill $7 billion)

• $75 million from Smithsonian (original bill $150 million)

• $200 million from Environmental Protection Agency Superfund (original bill $800 million)

• $100 million from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (original bill $427 million)

• $100 million from law enforcement wireless (original bill $200 million)

• $300 million from federal fleet of hybrid vehicles (original bill $600 million)

• $100 million from FBI construction (original bill $400 million)

Fully eliminated

• $55 million for historic preservation

• $122 million for Coast Guard polar icebreaker/cutters

• $100 million for Farm Service Agency modernization
Don't Miss

• $50 million for Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service

• $65 million for watershed rehabilitation

• $100 million for distance learning

• $98 million for school nutrition

• $50 million for aquaculture

• $2 billion for broadband

• $100 million for National Institute of Standards and Technology

• $50 million for detention trustee

• $25 million for Marshalls Construction

• $300 million for federal prisons

• $300 million for BYRNE Formula grant program

• $140 million for BYRNE Competitive grant program

• $10 million state and local law enforcement

• $50 million for NASA

• $50 million for aeronautics

• $50 million for exploration

• $50 million for Cross Agency Support

• $200 million for National Science Foundation

• $100 million for science

• $1 billion for Energy Loan Guarantees

• $4.5 billion for General Services Administration

• $89 million General Services Administration operations

• $50 million from Department of Homeland Security

• $200 million Transportation Security Administration

• $122 million for Coast Guard Cutters, modifies use

• $25 million for Fish and Wildlife

• $55 million for historic preservation

• $20 million for working capital fund

• $165 million for Forest Service capital improvement

• $90 million for State and Private Wildlife Fire Management

• $1 billion for Head Start/Early Start

• $5.8 billion for Health Prevention Activity

• $2 billion for Health Information Technology Grants

• $600 million for Title I (No Child Left Behind)

• $16 billion for school construction

• $3.5 billion for higher education construction

• $1.25 billion for project based rental

• $2.25 billion for Neighborhood Stabilization
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• $1.2 billion for retrofitting Project 8 housing

• $40 billion for state fiscal stabilization (includes $7.5 billion of state incentive grants)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/stimulus.cuts/index.html

This list keeps making me laugh. Seriously the more I find out of this bill the more it seems like a huge Pork list and barley anything that will help. What a joke. It's like they asked what they want money for - threw things on a board and found out which items stuck the most.

This crap is embarrassing. And you can't solely blame this on Obama there are 535 other people who have contributed.

Well, it's a stimulus/job creation bill. I would certainly hope that it included a provision that the money should mostly go towards hirings for new positions.

It is NOT a stimulus and job creation bill. It is nothing but a wish list package for the liberals that they've tried to get through for years. They have tried to keep this under wraps as much as they could, but it was finally publicized, and since then the public support has been falling daily. Now Obama has been trying to scare the living sh!t out of everyone that if it doesn't get passed, the country will collapse, and everyone will lose their jobs.

I'm furious at the fact that my own state's two senators, along with Arlen Specter, have said they are going to vote for the bill, and they managed to get $110B cut from it. What a crock of bullsh!t. The bill had $130B added to it, then they got $110B pulled back out, making it still larger than the one the House of Reps passed 10 days ago. If they all go for the bill, they need to get challenged at primaries for the upcoming mid-term elections.

I'm curious to see what an avalanche of bullsh!t we get to hear tonight as Obama tries, yet again, to convince the public that we need this bill passed.

Quote:

• $2.25 billion for Neighborhood Stabilization
advertisement

that's A LOT of air time!


wow, it may be too late for the US.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

The administration has been spending an aweful lot on campaign-style attack ads for the stimulus bill lately. Can any other conclusion be drawn than they are afraid of losing all support for it?

Another recent development that no one is talking about is this: Obama recently appointed a new Secretary of Commerce. That person is Judd Gregg, a NH Republican. Since it's inception, the Cencus Bureau has been under the perview of the Secretary of Commerce. However, the Cencus Bureau is now going to be under the controll of Rahm Emanuel.

This can only be interpreted as another avenue for the control of information to the public. Couple this with the amount of expansion in government programs, especially entitlement programs, which do nothing but increase the liberal voter base, crammed into the "stimulus" bill, and the fear-mongering used to try to bolster support it, and I ask if there is anyone that can not see where this is all going.

People need to wake up, and get on the phones, email, etc, with their representatives and senators, and get this sh!t stopped before we have turned too far down the path of giving up our liberties to stop it.

Quiklilcav wrote:I'm curious to see what an avalanche of bullsh!t we get to hear tonight as Obama tries, yet again, to convince the public that we need this bill passed.

I think he mentioned almost everything that you're against for and fear.

That is a waste of money, Government should do nothing about the economy, more tax cuts, pork shop, ext...
I think he was talking about all your comments.

hell I have to edit 2Xs

Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Monday, February 09, 2009 6:30 PM

spoiler wrote:

Quiklilcav wrote:I'm curious to see what an avalanche of bullsh!t we get to hear tonight as Obama tries, yet again, to convince the public that we need this bill passed.

I think he mentioned almost everything that you're against for and fear.

That is a waste of money, Government should do nothing about the economy, more tax cuts, pork shop, ext...
I think he was talking about all your comments.

hell I have to edit 2Xs

It's not that I don't think they should do something, but that doing nothing would be far better for us than what this pork-filled abomination is going to do.

By the way, I wanted to post a few tidbits for people to read regarding the stimulus. These are articles, so take them for what they are, but they say some of what I've been saying all long. The first one is about the Congressional Budget Office analysis of the stimulus, which should really tell you something.

CBO: Obama stimulus harmful over long haul
Obama now in combat mode
How Government Created the Financial Crisis

It should also really speak volumes that although not a single Republican representative in the house voted for it, which is what Obama keeps harping on ("The Republicans are blocking the bill that will turn this economy around"), there were Democrats who also voted against it. So while the bill doesn't have bipartisan support, it definitely has some bipartisan opposition.

CBO: Obama stimulus harmful over long haul:
"President Obama's economic recovery package will actually hurt the economy more in the long run than if he were to do nothing"
-Obama says doing nothing, it will make it worst. There's what the whole argument is all about. doing something Vs doing nothing.



Obama now in combat mode:
"A day before he headed to a luxury resort"
-ahhRRGG I just had to stop reading there. He went to a luxury resort? with the way the economy is and he went to a Luxury resort? so what's wrong with the good ol Family INN? WTF




How Government Created the Financial Crisis:
-There are so many theories about how this financial crisis was created that I do not know who to believe.


The key words here are Hurt the economy, Luxury resort, and Financial crisis started because of government.


to fix the economy people need to get their jobs back, get paid and start spending. how is that going to happend.
I do not know the answer to that.

You want to fund jobs and put money into the economy, with immediate results? Plant some F'ing trees... economic and environmental benefits.

Also, I fully support infrastructure spending (especially in IT, since we are so far behind European nations), and I don't mind if it takes a couple years for the benefits to fully develop. However, crap like 'school nutrition' does not = infrastructure development.




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

***BREAKING NEWS*** notec's steps to a brighter American future:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=36&i=58477&t=58099#58477

We all know that no matter how good we are promised it will be it never is. With our government so far in debt nearly a trillion dollars in new spending that will not help the average Joe now is not the answer. Now is not the time to be experimenting with projects paid for by overtaxing us further, printing more money which will lead to inflation, or prolonging the national debt.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Watching this bill pass as it stands is disgusting.

We had a chance at getting it killed and forcing a re-write, but thank you to three weak-asses, it's done. They keep talking about reconciliation, but I will be utterly shocked if they manage to really get the pork out of it, or kill it. Thanks Collins, Specter, and Snowe! (yeah, both of my state's senators were woo'd into it after a private lunch with our control hungry President)




I will not at all be surprized if this bullsh!t spending keeps up that 2010 will be just like 1994, and if we're really lucky, there will be primary challengers to these three.

Quiklilcav wrote: and if we're really lucky, there will be primary challengers to these three.

Ask you shall received....
Meakem may challenge Specter for Senate in 2010

Wade Jarvis wrote:With our government so far in debt nearly a trillion dollars in new spending that will not help the average Joe now is not the answer.

My question is what would be the best way to help the average Joe right now?
A Joe about to loose his home or a Joe without a job?

Tennessee Senators Lamar Alexander and Bob Corker voted against the economic recovery plan Tuesday

"This bill is a colossal mistake. This is still mostly a spending bill, not a stimulus bill. Even worse, it borrows an unprecedented amount of money - $1.2 trillion - spent mostly on projects that don't create jobs in the near term. We need a stimulus bill, but one that fixes housing first, lets taxpayers keep more of their own money, and spends borrowed money only on programs that create jobs quickly."

http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=9821894

Now,
Lets say the the Stimulus is a short-term fix, and it sounds like a short-term fix, then what would be a long term-fix?

Sen. Corker released this statement:

"I am disappointed that we have chosen to spend nearly $1 trillion and still have not solved the issues that created this economic crisis - credit and housing. I agree with the American people that something needs to be done, and I would support legislation that gets credit flowing again, addresses our housing issues, and includes targeted infrastructure spending for tangible, permanent projects that will not be gone in a couple of years.

While I am very disappointed this legislation passed and that future generations will be left to pay for this wasteful spending, I am still committed to working to approach the problem in the right way by putting in place a mechanism to get credit flowing again. Like all Americans, I'm anxious for us to solve this fundamental problem and for job growth to return, but when that occurs, it is my strong belief it will not be a result of the stimulus package passed today."

Also on Tuesday, Tennessee Finance Commissioner Dave Goetz told state lawmakers that Tennessee could receive as much as $4.3 billion under the House version of the stimulus bill.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:23 PM

really? have ppl vote on the bill?...didn't we see how that could go last november, when ppl can choose for themselves?

I'm really suprised nobody has brought this up yet...




Or this...

Quote:

Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

New Penalties

Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Elderly Hardest Hit

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.

In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision.

Hidden Provisions

If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.

The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined (90-92, 174-177, 181).

Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle supported the Clinton administration’s health-care overhaul in 1994, and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount an opposition. “If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it,” he said. “The issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.”

More Scrutiny Needed

On Friday, President Obama called it “inexcusable and irresponsible” for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill needs more scrutiny.

The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It produces almost 17 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. Yet the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn. This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"

Gary good call on the Bloomberg article. I remembered reading that quote from Daschle before. It shows the true conspiracy path behind this stuff.

The white construction worker exclusion is another example of skewed BS they're putting out there. Add to that the provision that renovation money to student group buildings can not go toward renovating any building that is used for any kind of religious gatherings, even if that is not the primary use of the building. So now we have discrimination against youth religious groups, and white skilled workers.

Again I ask, when are people going to see this administration for what it really is?

Just remember it's not "redistribution" though,right?









"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"

Ya, we are @!#$.

end of story.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Taetsch Z-24 wrote:Ya, we are @!#$.

end of story.

Chris

lol

mclonedogmcwad wrote:Ask you shall received....
Meakem may challenge Specter for Senate in 2010

Win! Now we need someone like that to aim at Collins and Snowe.
Given the choice I had in 08 election, I still would have voted for Collins, but next time I want a primary challenge, with a good conservative candidate.