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What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:29 AM on j-body.org
A lot of topics on here deal with politics, so I thought we'd take a break from that and talk about something I've been thinking about for a few years now. The nature of intelligence.

See, a lot of people confuse knowledge with intelligence. But I don't agree. Just take your average class brain. I think we've all known a little four eyed smartie-pants from our school days who could recite the entire class textbook from memory but who was utterly devoid of logical thought. He knew a bunch of stuff, but didn't understand the why and how and couldn't combine his knowledge into something useful. It's not enough to know all the parts of the engine, you have to know why those parts are being used in the first place.

Which I think is the problem with today's kids. They're extremely educated, but they're also complete frickin' morons. In fact, I'd say that the higher level of education is actually making them more destructive because an idiot who knows nothing at the very least doesn't cause any trouble, but give a retard the plans for a handglider and you've got the makings of a very funny (but still tragic) re-enactment of 9/11.

No harm done, except for some scared secretaries on the fifth floor, a ruined handglider and some blood and ass all over the window, but still...

I don't know what it is with some people, and I've never been that way, but there's a group of kids who are totally blind to the consequences of their actions. You know the type. Like the ones who bring bullets to school, smash them with a hammer and are utterly shocked at them going off. Sure, we've all had flights of childish fantasy "IMMA BE AN ASTRONAUT!!!" but some kids are spectacularly dense.

And education doesn't help, it just gives them more ideas.

I dunno, I've talked enough, whatcha all think? I *know* you have opinions on this.

Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:22 AM on j-body.org
I agree with a lot of what you said. Definitely there is a big difference between knowledge and intelligence. The difference is that intelligence is the ability to apply what you know, using reason and original thought, to expand your knowledge. A truly intelligent person learns not only by what someone teaches them, but also by what they can teach themselves. Knowledge is, for the most part, simple memorization.

As far as education helping or not, it depends on the style of teaching. As your example with the engine, they need to be able to understand and explain why things work, or mean what they do, etc., and I don't believe the current main stream educational system does that. Too much practice, memorization, and preparing for a test, that does nothing but see if you remember what your teacher taught you. Where I really believe our educational system is failing is in it's lack of stimulating the students' creativity in logical reason, and encouraging them to work things out for themselves, and to accept failure as part of the learning process. I'm sick of this pansy-ass sh!t about "no one loses, we're all winners". This does nothing for a persons character, or drive to better themselves. If you're always feeling great about what you did, no matter how weak it is, you're not driven to change and grow, so that next time you have a better chance. Not to mention the fact that if kids go through school thinking that everything is easy and happy, and no one ever loses, they're in for one very harsh reality when they get into the real world. How cruel is that?

Also, the ability to articulate is almost a lost art in our culture. For the majority of people to understand you, you need to speak in monosyllabic terms, spelling everything out at a first grade level. The vocabulary of the average individual these days is far more narrow than it was two or three decades ago.






Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 8:32 AM on j-body.org
I think there are different types of intelligence.

The Nine Types of Intelligence
By Howard Gardner



1. Naturalist Intelligence (“Nature Smart”)



Designates the human ability to discriminate among living things (plants, animals) as well as sensitivity to other features of the natural world (clouds, rock configurations). This ability was clearly of value in our evolutionary past as hunters, gatherers, and farmers; it continues to be central in such roles as botanist or chef. It is also speculated that much of our consumer society exploits the naturalist intelligences, which can be mobilized in the discrimination among cars, sneakers, kinds of makeup, and the like.



2. Musical Intelligence (“Musical Smart”)



Musical intelligence is the capacity to discern pitch, rhythm, timbre, and tone. This intelligence enables us to recognize, create, reproduce, and reflect on music, as demonstrated by composers, conductors, musicians, vocalist, and sensitive listeners. Interestingly, there is often an affective connection between music and the emotions; and mathematical and musical intelligences may share common thinking processes. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are usually singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss.





3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence (Number/Reasoning Smart)



Logical-mathematical intelligence is the ability to calculate, quantify, consider propositions and hypotheses, and carry out complete mathematical operations. It enables us to perceive relationships and connections and to use abstract, symbolic thought; sequential reasoning skills; and inductive and deductive thinking patterns. Logical intelligence is usually well developed in mathematicians, scientists, and detectives. Young adults with lots of logical intelligence are interested in patterns, categories, and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.



4. Existential Intelligence


Sensitivity and capacity to tackle deep questions about human existence, such as the meaning of life, why do we die, and how did we get here.



5. Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart”)



Interpersonal intelligence is the ability to understand and interact effectively with others. It involves effective verbal and nonverbal communication, the ability to note distinctions among others, sensitivity to the moods and temperaments of others, and the ability to entertain multiple perspectives. Teachers, social workers, actors, and politicians all exhibit interpersonal intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are leaders among their peers, are good at communicating, and seem to understand others’ feelings and motives.



6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (“Body Smart”)



Bodily kinesthetic intelligence is the capacity to manipulate objects and use a variety of physical skills. This intelligence also involves a sense of timing and the perfection of skills through mind–body union. Athletes, dancers, surgeons, and craftspeople exhibit well-developed bodily kinesthetic intelligence.



7. Linguistic Intelligence (Word Smart)



Linguistic intelligence is the ability to think in words and to use language to express and appreciate complex meanings. Linguistic intelligence allows us to understand the order and meaning of words and to apply meta-linguistic skills to reflect on our use of language. Linguistic intelligence is the most widely shared human competence and is evident in poets, novelists, journalists, and effective public speakers. Young adults with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.



8. Intra-personal Intelligence (Self Smart”)



Intra-personal intelligence is the capacity to understand oneself and one’s thoughts and feelings, and to use such knowledge in planning and directioning one’s life. Intra-personal intelligence involves not only an appreciation of the self, but also of the human condition. It is evident in psychologist, spiritual leaders, and philosophers. These young adults may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.



9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)



Spatial intelligence is the ability to think in three dimensions. Core capacities include mental imagery, spatial reasoning, image manipulation, graphic and artistic skills, and an active imagination. Sailors, pilots, sculptors, painters, and architects all exhibit spatial intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing or daydreaming.


9 types of intelligence
Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 9:03 AM on j-body.org
spoiler wrote:Howard Gardner thinks there are different types of intelligence.

Fixed.

That post was an example of what we are talking about:
Coming into a discussion thread and simply quoting someone means you haven't given it much thought, you've only shown that you can find information.






Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 9:18 AM on j-body.org
Simply because he posts information from another source does not mean he hasn't reviewed, understood and agreed with it...


2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
636 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero
Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:20 AM on j-body.org
[ion wrote: C2]Simply because he posts information from another source does not mean he hasn't reviewed, understood and agreed with it...


X2

or should I say I agree about what ionC2 wrote because is true

Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:24 AM
Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:36 AM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:I agree with a lot of what you said. Definitely there is a big difference between knowledge and intelligence. The difference is that intelligence is the ability to apply what you know, using reason and original thought, to expand your knowledge. A truly intelligent person learns not only by what someone teaches them, but also by what they can teach themselves. Knowledge is, for the most part, simple memorization.

And you have neither of latter.

Quiklilcav wrote:
As far as education helping or not, it depends on the style of teaching. As your example with the engine, they need to be able to understand and explain why things work, or mean what they do, etc., and I don't believe the current main stream educational system does that. Too much practice, memorization, and preparing for a test, that does nothing but see if you remember what your teacher taught you. Where I really believe our educational system is failing is in it's lack of stimulating the students' creativity in logical reason, and encouraging them to work things out for themselves, and to accept failure as part of the learning process. I'm sick of this pansy-ass sh!t about "no one loses, we're all winners". This does nothing for a persons character, or drive to better themselves. If you're always feeling great about what you did, no matter how weak it is, you're not driven to change and grow, so that next time you have a better chance. Not to mention the fact that if kids go through school thinking that everything is easy and happy, and no one ever loses, they're in for one very harsh reality when they get into the real world. How cruel is that?

And you're a prime example of it.

Quiklilcav wrote:
Also, the ability to articulate is almost a lost art in our culture. For the majority of people to understand you, you need to speak in monosyllabic terms, spelling everything out at a first grade level. The vocabulary of the average individual these days is far more narrow than it was two or three decades ago

And you really have no room to complain & comment on this.

And now carry on with the topic.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:49 AM on j-body.org
Good job in adding zero value to this thread because you've got a bug up your ass to attempt insulting me.





Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 12:50 PM on j-body.org
Intelligence to me is the ability to learn different types of skills but anyone can't be good at everything.

"There are intelligent workers who achieve great things and then blow it all with some "stupid" behavior."
Like watching porn at work, getting into a fight with another co-worker, late all the time, having sex with another co-worker at work, ect...

"Intelligence is the ability to learn and understand. "
Learning and understanding is something that a person has to- want to do.

Now,
When a little kid doesn't want to learn something at school or doesn't do well is because there's something wrong at home, or at school, or it could be something psychological and if it gets to that point then the parent would have to see a doctor to find out what's going on. An intelligent parent would seek help instead of beating the crap out of kid because something is wrong..

How do you define human intelligence?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, February 14, 2009 12:54 PM
Re: What is intelligence?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:28 PM on j-body.org
Children :-p Don't make mister hand turn into mister fist now. Be nice.
Re: What is intelligence?
Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:35 AM on j-body.org
Knoxfire, it was a good attempt at getting an interesting discussion going, but apparently pure philosophical discussions are doomed in this forum.

On one hand, you have some quotes, which is not a discussion, and on the other hand, you've got a self-righteous douchebag who decides to come in and post nothing of use to the discussion because he has a childish personal problem with me based on debates we've had in other threads.







Re: What is intelligence?
Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:36 PM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:A truly intelligent person learns not only by what someone teaches them, but also by what they can teach themselves.


Basically learning is intelligence. but what I was saying was that people in general can not learn everything or be good at everything.
People have the ability and the brain to be good at least at something and that is intelligence. To be good at something first you have to learn it to see if you like it and if you like it then you have to practice and learn some more and that's how you can become better at it.


Quiklilcav wrote:Where I really believe our educational system is failing is in it's lack of stimulating the students' creativity in logical reason, and encouraging them to work things out for themselves, and to accept failure as part of the learning process.

Parents can teach that too and to how to accept failure. specially when the little kid brings home a big fat F
The intelligent thing to do as a parent would be to help the child or find some help and figure out what is the problem. And if the child is simply too lazy to learn, the parent has to find a way to deal with that behavior.


Quiklilcav wrote:The vocabulary of the average individual these days is far more narrow than it was two or three decades ago.


that would be a lack of Linguistic Intelligence (Word Smart)


Quote:

"Linguistic intelligence is the ability to think in words and to use language to express and appreciate complex meanings. Linguistic intelligence allows us to understand the order and meaning of words and to apply meta-linguistic skills to reflect on our use of language. Linguistic intelligence is the most widely shared human competence and is evident in poets, novelists, journalists, and effective public speakers. Young adults with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles."



and I don't have a problem with personal debates from the past

Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:38 PM
Re: What is intelligence?
Sunday, February 15, 2009 4:48 PM on j-body.org
spoiler wrote:and I don't have a problem with personal debates from the past

That wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at Goodwrench coming in here for no other reason than to make another weak attempt at insulting me.
Completely childish, and he had nothing useful to add to the thread. If it wasn't for the fact that he was filling someone else's thread with his bullsh!t, it would be amusing.






Re: What is intelligence?
Monday, February 16, 2009 3:06 AM on j-body.org
There's an aspect of knowledge (relating to intelligence) that has always intrigued me. It has to do with the aquisition of knowledge and the amount of trust that has to be given towards the material you're getting your facts from.

What I mean by this is that, you can be the world's greatest genius, but still have to rely on information found in books. Lemme give you a quick and dirty example. I know that the Earth's population is roughly 6.7 billion, but I don't know this personally. I didn't go around counting heads. I had to trust that the facts I read were correct and that the people who printed them weren't lying, and trust is the only thing that makes me quote that number. For all I know there could be 1 billion or 10 billion and I wouldn't have a clue.

Now let's say you're the next Einstein and you're trying to invent faster than light travel. Just think of all the theories, equations, concepts and facts that you absolutely have to take for granted are correct in order to go forward with your research, because you can't start second guessing everything can you? If you did, you could spend a lifetime doing nothing except proving existing science before getting to work on your own ideas.

So intelligence often comes down to your ability to process and understand material so fast that you can point out it's flaws (if any) and know what's BS, know what's opinionated theory and know what's cold hard fact. Knowledge is like food. If you just gorge yourself on anything, it's useless. But if you pick and choose what you feed your mind it can be very healthy. The problem is that a person's opinion always interferes with this and they end up believing only what agrees with them.

There's a reason why the extremely smart people only work in one narrow field. It's because they understand that they can't trust themselves sometimes. and it's best if they can focus their mind on one specific thing.
Re: What is intelligence?
Monday, February 16, 2009 5:57 AM on j-body.org
I'm not sure the last part is completely correct. While it may be correct for some, I'm betting on their hyper focus and submersion in their work is more of an obsessive trait than anything else. But this also may go back to your point about having to trust that what you already know is true, rather than having to prove it. I would bet that many in fields like that do actually test and question what has already been done, to truly have the understanding of their subject, so that they have a basis for new ideas. It is this type of questioning everything that fuels most true innovation.





Re: What is intelligence?
Monday, February 16, 2009 6:32 PM on j-body.org
Definition I was given in Psych class

Intelligence is the ability to retain information and make use of it later.

Im also going to add the ability to articulate your thoughts into something useful.

So essentially you could know eveything in the world but sit on your ass and make no use of it and you wouldnt be very intelligent. Whereas you could be of average aptitude but know many useful things and that would make you intelligent.




Re: What is intelligence?
Monday, February 16, 2009 7:56 PM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:Good job in adding zero value to this thread because you've got a bug up your ass to attempt insulting me.

Nope, I will say it again (like I always do for the Illiterate SOBs) just stating a fact that YOU have no room to talk on this subject.
You talking on this subject is like Bill Clinton talking on fidelity.



THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: What is intelligence?
Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:13 AM on j-body.org
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
Quiklilcav wrote:Good job in adding zero value to this thread because you've got a bug up your ass to attempt insulting me.

Nope, I will say it again (like I always do for the Illiterate SOBs) just stating a fact that YOU have no room to talk on this subject.
You talking on this subject is like Bill Clinton talking on fidelity.

Because I don't blindly believe and repeat the same bullsh!t rhetoric that you do, and misread data and statistics as you do, is an indication of how wrong you are.
The more you attempt to question my intelligence, the more you make clear your lack of it.

Now stop thread jacking just to make more lame attempts at convincing people I don't know what I'm talking about.
You're becoming more useless everytime you post around here. It's even losing it's humor.






Re: What is intelligence?
Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:13 AM on j-body.org
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
Quiklilcav wrote:Good job in adding zero value to this thread because you've got a bug up your ass to attempt insulting me.

Nope, I will say it again (like I always do for the Illiterate SOBs) just stating a fact that YOU have no room to talk on this subject.
You talking on this subject is like Bill Clinton talking on fidelity.


Actually, I think Quik has a quick (pun intended har-har) and interesting mind. Yes, he and I would viciously disagree on many things politics, but his opinions are his opinions and have no relationship to his intelligence. In fact, if you'd bothered to do more than skim over the posts you might have noticed that THIS IS WHAT THE WHOLE THREAD IS ABOUT!

Do I think Quik is right in loathing Obama? No. Do I think he's right about a lot of things political? No. Do I think he's stupid? No.

Nor are you stupid Good. If I may totally derail this thread and make an observation about you and Quik (and this is entirely my own opinion) it's that you're both extremely passionate about your views and let your c*cks slip away from you at times, you're so quick to whip them out wanting to see whose is the biggest. You sometimes (as far as I can tell) forget that just because you like/agree with something, that doesn't mean it's good; and just because you hate/disagree with something, that doesn't mean it's bad. (Take me, I despise enviromentalists, yet the core of what they're saying is good. Now, if they weren't a bunch of unpragmatic, city dwelling, metrosexual, starbucks drinking, overeducated, high falluting, bourgeois, segway riding, FRIENDS imitating, pretentiously bad playwrights with a chip on their shoulder, intellectual wannabes I might like them more.)

But Good, and I don't say this in a mean way (Cuz I like ya), Quik is a lot more openminded in his views than you are and he doesn't hold a grudge like you do, and I say this while agreeing with your views more than his. Sooooooo... you know?

You two would really like each other if you weren't duelling viewpoints all the time. Maybe one day you're both going to realize that it isn't the Left against the Right or Conservatives against Liberals, but People in power against Everyone else. Politicians use ideology to keep us fighting internally so they can get away with their BS. They learned THAT lesson from the sixties. When a group gets along and is united under one goal, it gets things done. Thus, divide and conquer.

If you two, and people like you, learned to put aside petty differences and put their heads together, then you wouldn't have to look up to politicians to solve problems anymore and they'd go back to being the civil servants that they're supposed to be.

Just saying...

NOW BACK TO TOPIC GODDAMMIT!!!!!
Re: What is intelligence?
Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:56 AM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
Quiklilcav wrote:Good job in adding zero value to this thread because you've got a bug up your ass to attempt insulting me.

Nope, I will say it again (like I always do for the Illiterate SOBs) just stating a fact that YOU have no room to talk on this subject.
You talking on this subject is like Bill Clinton talking on fidelity.

Because I don't blindly believe and repeat the same bullsh!t rhetoric that you do, and misread data and statistics as you do, is an indication of how wrong you are.
The more you attempt to question my intelligence, the more you make clear your lack of it.

Now stop thread jacking just to make more lame attempts at convincing people I don't know what I'm talking about.
You're becoming more useless everytime you post around here. It's even losing it's humor.


Not about what side you reside, the lack history knowledge only makes you give ignorant opinions, worst part...you try to use YOUR opinions and argue as if they were facts. Big no-no.

Knoxfire Esquire wrote:
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
Quiklilcav wrote:Good job in adding zero value to this thread because you've got a bug up your ass to attempt insulting me.

Nope, I will say it again (like I always do for the Illiterate SOBs) just stating a fact that YOU have no room to talk on this subject.
You talking on this subject is like Bill Clinton talking on fidelity.


Actually, I think Quik has a quick (pun intended har-har) and interesting mind. Yes, he and I would viciously disagree on many things politics, but his opinions are his opinions and have no relationship to his intelligence. In fact, if you'd bothered to do more than skim over the posts you might have noticed that THIS IS WHAT THE WHOLE THREAD IS ABOUT!

Do I think Quik is right in loathing Obama? No. Do I think he's right about a lot of things political? No. Do I think he's stupid? No.

Nor are you stupid Good. If I may totally derail this thread and make an observation about you and Quik (and this is entirely my own opinion) it's that you're both extremely passionate about your views and let your c*cks slip away from you at times, you're so quick to whip them out wanting to see whose is the biggest. You sometimes (as far as I can tell) forget that just because you like/agree with something, that doesn't mean it's good; and just because you hate/disagree with something, that doesn't mean it's bad. (Take me, I despise enviromentalists, yet the core of what they're saying is good. Now, if they weren't a bunch of unpragmatic, city dwelling, metrosexual, starbucks drinking, overeducated, high falluting, bourgeois, segway riding, FRIENDS imitating, pretentiously bad playwrights with a chip on their shoulder, intellectual wannabes I might like them more.)

But Good, and I don't say this in a mean way (Cuz I like ya), Quik is a lot more openminded in his views than you are and he doesn't hold a grudge like you do, and I say this while agreeing with your views more than his. Sooooooo... you know?

You two would really like each other if you weren't duelling viewpoints all the time. Maybe one day you're both going to realize that it isn't the Left against the Right or Conservatives against Liberals, but People in power against Everyone else. Politicians use ideology to keep us fighting internally so they can get away with their BS. They learned THAT lesson from the sixties. When a group gets along and is united under one goal, it gets things done. Thus, divide and conquer.

If you two, and people like you, learned to put aside petty differences and put their heads together, then you wouldn't have to look up to politicians to solve problems anymore and they'd go back to being the civil servants that they're supposed to be.

Just saying...

NOW BACK TO TOPIC GODDAMMIT!!!!!


My point is not so much left vs right but: how the right have been no good in recent history. I am not a democrat, but independent. And my views became like that since ever since this millennium. Both have done no good for this country, and the republican have done more damage then the democrats, especially since the Nixon era. Now leave pride for the party aside and use history knowledge with a little common sense and one might see where I'm coming from. Base your answer on pride and pretty much you get an opinion like Quick's not a fact.

Based on responses on other threads, I still stand he has no room to talk on this subject much less criticize or belittle others when they try to contribute on the thread. Case-in-point look up there.^



THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: What is intelligence?
Wednesday, February 18, 2009 4:33 AM on j-body.org
First of all, Knoxfire, I just wanted to address one thing in your post: I don't loathe Obama (yet: we'll see what he really does to or for this country). However, I have strong beliefs, based on his words, and his actions, that there is very little I could possibly agree with him on. His first month in office has been worse than I actually expected, and people still just don't see it. I have heard a few former Obama supporters recently change their mind after watching what happened with the stimulus bill, but for the most part, everyone is still caught up with him on a mesianic level, and it's enfuriating to see so many people duped.

Second, Goodwrench, you need to open your mind and really look at things objectively. I have, and always will, base my opinions on fact, not the reverse. I have made a living on statistics, and done very well. I look at everything objectively, until the facts paint a picture for me. In the case of what's going on with our country, I am so against the picture that's being painted that I'm highly vocal about it. Now if you'd like to further debate on my intelligence, feel free to start a thread of your own, but this is enough thread jacking in Knoxfires thread.







Re: What is intelligence?
Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:54 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

My point is not so much left vs right but: how the right have been no good in recent history. I am not a democrat, but independent. And my views became like that since ever since this millennium. Both have done no good for this country, and the republican have done more damage then the democrats, especially since the Nixon era. Now leave pride for the party aside and use history knowledge with a little common sense and one might see where I'm coming from. Base your answer on pride and pretty much you get an opinion like Quick's not a fact.


So, You would argue that Wilsons creation's of the Federal Reserve, and subsequent move away from The gold backed US Dollar, was a Good move?

IF, for nothing else, Bush will be remembered for the US President that gave the middle east back the power to the people. This will have effects in the region for some time.


Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


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