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Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Thursday, March 12, 2009 7:21 PM on j-body.org
Quicklilcav,Well said no it was'nt an insult your right,And what you said about the business cost to go down and that makes complete sense well said.I dunno what I said was just my view and thought made sense.But to say it's a lie is crazy




Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Friday, March 13, 2009 12:50 AM on j-body.org
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Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:41 PM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

not to mentionon what quick said, but we dont need people going out and buying a dinner out as much as we need major corporations to start developing again. people are pulling out of jobs half way thru. walking onto a multi million dollar hospital job and just saying, go home were not going to build it now. you need to get the money at the top moving again, instead they are holding onto it to see what happens.

False.
We (do) need people going out buying dinner. That is part of economy, no one buys, no movement. This notion that "money on the top moving" is not going to do shit. Simple economics, if there is no demand, why build, why open more jobs? For what, so it can be stocked in store shelfs or dealer lots?
Since the large portion of people are in the middle and low income, thats where the money needs to be moving. Money flows, means demand is created, demand brings wanted ads on Sunday's paper.
If that waiter/ waitress has no clientele, how do you think he/she will replace that 15 year old oven? I can guarantee that the top will not buy it for him/ her.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:27 AM on j-body.org
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

sndsgood wrote:

not to mentionon what quick said, but we dont need people going out and buying a dinner out as much as we need major corporations to start developing again. people are pulling out of jobs half way thru. walking onto a multi million dollar hospital job and just saying, go home were not going to build it now. you need to get the money at the top moving again, instead they are holding onto it to see what happens.

False.
We (do) need people going out buying dinner. That is part of economy, no one buys, no movement. This notion that "money on the top moving" is not going to do shit. Simple economics, if there is no demand, why build, why open more jobs? For what, so it can be stocked in store shelfs or dealer lots?
Since the large portion of people are in the middle and low income, thats where the money needs to be moving. Money flows, means demand is created, demand brings wanted ads on Sunday's paper.
If that waiter/ waitress has no clientele, how do you think he/she will replace that 15 year old oven? I can guarantee that the top will not buy it for him/ her.

While your statement about businesses needing patrons is true, so is the fact that the companies need the relief of taxes even more. It doesn't matter how much business comes in if the costs of doing that business keep increasing. It will still result in cut backs and layoffs.

People as a whole simply do not have enough disposable income right now for consumer confidence to make the difference in the economy. It is in business where the difference will be made, and this administration is making that difference a negative one. Not only in their vilification of "evil Corporate America", but in real cost increases. It needs to be stopped and turned around. Our economic history is irrefutable proof that stimulus checks to the average person do not work, and that taxing the rich and redistributing it does not work, but that real tax cuts for businesses works. And coming from someone with plenty of successful business management experience, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the cost of doing business has been increasing faster than anything else, and profit margins continue to shrink. The things being proposed right now will destroy this country's business, and cause numerous companies to go out of business, or move their entire company out of the US. These proposals need to be shot down before it's too late. The biggest ones are Cap and Trade, and the lifting of the FICA cap.

The average person needs to realize that all of the class envy, class warfare, and corporate hatred are going to hurt this country more than anything. They are contrivances for the sole purpose of advancing an agenda. If there weren't groups to vilify, and groups to victimize, the liberal agenda would not move forward.








Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:07 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

While your statement about businesses needing patrons is true, so is the fact that the companies need the relief of taxes even more. It doesn't matter how much business comes in if the costs of doing that business keep increasing. It will still result in cut backs and layoffs.

False. That is a (wealthy) right wing or (wealthy) Conservative Liberals conspiracy. Or better yet an "ol' wife's tale."

Quote:

People as a whole simply do not have enough disposable income right now for consumer confidence to make the difference in the economy. It is in business where the difference will be made, and this administration is making that difference a negative one. Not only in their vilification of "evil Corporate America", but in real cost increases.

You're right on the fact the people do not have disposable income, as the last 8 years people held back on cash (not credit) just because they were fearful that if they were going to have a job the next week. So yhea, people spent less and the economy slowed even more to the point that it was becoming stagnant the last almost two years. Now we are in the predicament because of consumer confidence being low. Hey when the private sector can't give no job security, this is what happens.

Quote:

that stimulus checks to the average person do not work, and that taxing the rich and redistributing it does not work, but that real tax cuts for businesses works.

Stimulus checks don't work. True
Taxing the rich does not work. False
That real tax cuts for businesses works. False
Give ALL the tax breaks, low % tax numbers to GM, Boeing, Frigidaire, Sony, American Airlines, etc all you want, but the fact is, if people are not demanding their products, goods, services companies like the ones mention WILL NOT put "wanted" ads. Why hire more if consumers are not purchasing. This is simple Capitalism.

Quote:

The things being proposed right now will destroy this country's business, and cause numerous companies to go out of business, or move their entire company out of the US.
More so then what already has happened since the turn of the century?
As for moving business out the country, hey that's an aspect of capitalism (maximize profit) and with the help of the Republican party for giving tax breaks on building out side, thank your friend Reagan for that.


Quote:

The average person needs to realize that all of the class envy, class warfare, and corporate hatred are going to hurt this country more than anything. They are contrivances for the sole purpose of advancing an agenda. If there weren't groups to vilify, and groups to victimize, the liberal agenda would not move forward.

And the average person should not go against their personal agenda and go with theories that was brought up by people with the title "Conservative Liberal" or "Republican." Just because they carry those titles, doesn't mean it is meant to work for the poor, average, or common folks.



THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:20 PM on j-body.org
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

Quote:

While your statement about businesses needing patrons is true, so is the fact that the companies need the relief of taxes even more. It doesn't matter how much business comes in if the costs of doing that business keep increasing. It will still result in cut backs and layoffs.

False. That is a (wealthy) right wing or (wealthy) Conservative Liberals conspiracy. Or better yet an "ol' wife's tale."

You speak of things you have no business speaking about. What I said is 100% truth, and I can say this because I've not only worked in, but managed, enough businesses in multiple industries, to know this. How much management or business experience do you have? How many employees have you ever managed?

You have no concept of economics. You have been drinking up the liberal kool-ade so long that you can't fathom how true conservatism works for everyone. You are part of the anti-rich, anti-corporate mindset. I don't care what you label yourself. Your bias is obvious. You believe in a punitive, anti-incentive tax plans that do absolutely nothing for growth. Somehow you are convinced that it actually helps growth, but you can not argue with history. Whenever taxes were kept low on businesses, unemployment numbers were low, and growth was high. Whenever taxes get increased on the upper brackets and businesses, the economy has, at best, become stagnant.

Do you realize that many of the Bush years were quite good economically? The fear mongering of a recession began before any actual decline in the economy took place. Unemployment numbers were low, and business growth was happening country wide, and the stock market was up, yet the Democrats were talking about decline in the economy, and this was just two years ago. Why? Because the elections were coming up, and if they could convince everyone (which they did) that the economy was declining, they could run against Bush not just on the war, but also on the economy.

One thing you refuse to accept, and your only answer is to pick one little thing out, twist it, and keep bashing it (companies moving over seas because of tax incentives to do so), is that Capitalism in it's pure form, works, and works extremely well. It is when the government has stepped in and tried to manipulate it, no matter how noble the cause might be, that things go south. Funny, the way you twist one thing, keep saying it over and over again, I'd think you were part of the media. Oh, look, you are! LOL. Silly me.

As to why the tax breaks work, as I explained in my previous post, it's two-fold: they stop cutbacks and layoffs, and they allow the drop of price (which, contrary to your belief, actually happens) to encourage more sales, which spurs growth.

You are the perfect example of the statement I made at the bottom of my last post. You engage 100% in class warfare and corporate hatred. What you and everyone else who subscribes to this bullsh!t need to understand is that the corporations will stop putting up with this, and leave, and then there will be even less jobs, less money in the tax coffers to hand out to the leeches of society. Then there will be no choice but to start going into the lower classes and taking their money, because "someone has to pay it." You can not argue with the fact that 90% of tax dollars are paid by approximately 10% of the people, and if you bash that 10% long enough, and keep trying to take more and more of their money, they'll eventually say "f&%k you" and leave.

Stop trying to spread your hatred and class envy.








Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:49 PM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

Quote:

While your statement about businesses needing patrons is true, so is the fact that the companies need the relief of taxes even more. It doesn't matter how much business comes in if the costs of doing that business keep increasing. It will still result in cut backs and layoffs.

False. That is a (wealthy) right wing or (wealthy) Conservative Liberals conspiracy. Or better yet an "ol' wife's tale."

You speak of things you have no business speaking about. What I said is 100% truth, and I can say this because I've not only worked in, but managed, enough businesses in multiple industries, to know this. How much management or business experience do you have? How many employees have you ever managed?

You have no concept of economics. You have been drinking up the liberal kool-ade so long that you can't fathom how true conservatism works for everyone. You are part of the anti-rich, anti-corporate mindset. I don't care what you label yourself. Your bias is obvious. You believe in a punitive, anti-incentive tax plans that do absolutely nothing for growth. Somehow you are convinced that it actually helps growth, but you can not argue with history. Whenever taxes were kept low on businesses, unemployment numbers were low, and growth was high. Whenever taxes get increased on the upper brackets and businesses, the economy has, at best, become stagnant.

Do you realize that many of the Bush years were quite good economically? The fear mongering of a recession began before any actual decline in the economy took place. Unemployment numbers were low, and business growth was happening country wide, and the stock market was up, yet the Democrats were talking about decline in the economy, and this was just two years ago. Why? Because the elections were coming up, and if they could convince everyone (which they did) that the economy was declining, they could run against Bush not just on the war, but also on the economy.

One thing you refuse to accept, and your only answer is to pick one little thing out, twist it, and keep bashing it (companies moving over seas because of tax incentives to do so), is that Capitalism in it's pure form, works, and works extremely well. It is when the government has stepped in and tried to manipulate it, no matter how noble the cause might be, that things go south. Funny, the way you twist one thing, keep saying it over and over again, I'd think you were part of the media. Oh, look, you are! LOL. Silly me.

As to why the tax breaks work, as I explained in my previous post, it's two-fold: they stop cutbacks and layoffs, and they allow the drop of price (which, contrary to your belief, actually happens) to encourage more sales, which spurs growth.

You are the perfect example of the statement I made at the bottom of my last post. You engage 100% in class warfare and corporate hatred. What you and everyone else who subscribes to this bullsh!t need to understand is that the corporations will stop putting up with this, and leave, and then there will be even less jobs, less money in the tax coffers to hand out to the leeches of society. Then there will be no choice but to start going into the lower classes and taking their money, because "someone has to pay it." You can not argue with the fact that 90% of tax dollars are paid by approximately 10% of the people, and if you bash that 10% long enough, and keep trying to take more and more of their money, they'll eventually say "f&%k you" and leave.

Stop trying to spread your hatred and class envy.


Talk about drinking the kool-aid...

Your posts are so slanted I've stopped reading them all together.





Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:30 PM on j-body.org
If you spend time talking with people that actually know how the economy really works you will realize that Quik is correct. Taxation of those that have money is not the solution.



Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:12 PM on j-body.org
Ummmm... I assume you're talking about economists, who generally can't agree on anything? Stop pretending like there is a consensus, stop pretending like you know the solutions, or even the causes of the problems for that matter... Hell, let's stop pretending that anyone really knows the intricacies of our system. We know what we've been told. There are just far too many outside forces (that we can't control) that affect the economy. The reality is that no one knows how to fix the economic problems our country faces. The problems are numerous and complex, and they all have a cause and Effect relationship with one another (whether it be directly or indirectly). Our leaders can only do what they think will work, and there are certainly different schools of thought on what will work. The sooner we realize that there is no easy fix, the sooner people will get off of their lazy asses and do what they need to do to take care of themselves first. There are far too many people who think 'The American Dream' just happens -- that it's just a byproduct of living here. The American Dream is about working hard to get your share...





Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:16 PM on j-body.org
DING.


But that's what you get when over 50% of the population works for the government.

Tax goes up, and in the same breath, everyone bitches about jobs closing down, or leaving the states....

its like a lego set, all you need to do is put the pieces together.

Lower tax on business's, stand by for 4 years so they can get situated, and we'll get back on our feet.

(looks around)
IE Regan's deal in the 80's heralding in the boom of the 90's


Not argue how I'm wrong please.

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:00 PM on j-body.org
shiZblam wrote:

Talk about drinking the kool-aid...

Your posts are so slanted I've stopped reading them all together.

Obviously, you haven't.

As far as drinking the kool-aid, I know what I have experienced, as well as studied, not what I've been told.
I don't take anything someone "teaches" me at face value. My teachers in school, and many of my former bosses would tell you the same.
Also, keep in mind that I knew what was going on during some of the times you and Goodwrench have only read about in books, because you were still sh!tting your diapers at that point.

My posts may sound slanted toward simply supporting a political view, but they are, in fact, shaped from the point of view that I have seen first hand policies that can spur growth, and policies that can stifle them. I also know very well the economics of business, and how much harder things have become over the years due to heavier burdens of operating costs, more than half of which can be attributed to government policies.

People like you and Goodwrench might actually try considering these things before dismissing my views as ignorant.

The one thing you've posted that I will agree with, because it is at the heart of everything I believe, is this:

Quote:

the sooner people will get off of their lazy asses and do what they need to do to take care of themselves first. There are far too many people who think 'The American Dream' just happens -- that it's just a byproduct of living here. The American Dream is about working hard to get your share...

Don't look now, but that's a conservative view.










Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:27 PM on j-body.org
shiZblam wrote:

the sooner people will get off of their lazy asses and do what they need to do to take care of themselves first. There are far too many people who think 'The American Dream' just happens -- that it's just a byproduct of living here. The American Dream is about working hard to get your share...


not trying to get off subject or anything but I was watching that show called "Clean House"

I'm sorry but those people are too lazy to get off their ass to clean their house IMO they don't clean their bathroom and they do not do their dishes, those people actually get rewarded.
They get new painted walls, new furniture, new flat screen TVs, computer desk, new bathroom, new windows, new everything.

so is it is good to be lazy and nasty? Yes!

"show brings a four-person cleanup-and-renovation crew to the homes of families unable to control household clutter"
how can you not control clutter?


I understand cleaning your home is a lot of work, but you still need to get up and do it. if two people live in one house, then two people need to clean.


and about the economy,
I have to agree. taxing only one side of the ship, is not going to stop the ship from sinking.
investors have water pumps that can get more water out of the sinking ship than those who can't even afford to rent a water pump.
investors can actually seal the water leak by creating more jobs and investing and keep the ship moving forward.
if investors do not want to invest, our economic ship will continue to sink deeper and deeper
Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Monday, March 16, 2009 2:00 PM on j-body.org
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

sndsgood wrote:

not to mentionon what quick said, but we dont need people going out and buying a dinner out as much as we need major corporations to start developing again. people are pulling out of jobs half way thru. walking onto a multi million dollar hospital job and just saying, go home were not going to build it now. you need to get the money at the top moving again, instead they are holding onto it to see what happens.

False.
We (do) need people going out buying dinner. That is part of economy, no one buys, no movement. This notion that "money on the top moving" is not going to do shit. Simple economics, if there is no demand, why build, why open more jobs? For what, so it can be stocked in store shelfs or dealer lots?
Since the large portion of people are in the middle and low income, thats where the money needs to be moving. Money flows, means demand is created, demand brings wanted ads on Sunday's paper.
If that waiter/ waitress has no clientele, how do you think he/she will replace that 15 year old oven? I can guarantee that the top will not buy it for him/ her.



so what your saying is its the chicken versus the egg. you need a job to go out to dinner, u need someone to eat to have a reseraunt. whos is going to be the one to go first. the person with no job going out to buy dinner with money they dont have? or the corporations to open their pocketbooks with the money they do have to create jobs so people can have money to buy a dinner???





http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Monday, March 16, 2009 6:00 PM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

sndsgood wrote:

not to mentionon what quick said, but we dont need people going out and buying a dinner out as much as we need major corporations to start developing again. people are pulling out of jobs half way thru. walking onto a multi million dollar hospital job and just saying, go home were not going to build it now. you need to get the money at the top moving again, instead they are holding onto it to see what happens.

False.
We (do) need people going out buying dinner. That is part of economy, no one buys, no movement. This notion that "money on the top moving" is not going to do shit. Simple economics, if there is no demand, why build, why open more jobs? For what, so it can be stocked in store shelfs or dealer lots?
Since the large portion of people are in the middle and low income, thats where the money needs to be moving. Money flows, means demand is created, demand brings wanted ads on Sunday's paper.
If that waiter/ waitress has no clientele, how do you think he/she will replace that 15 year old oven? I can guarantee that the top will not buy it for him/ her.



so what your saying is its the chicken versus the egg. you need a job to go out to dinner, u need someone to eat to have a reseraunt. whos is going to be the one to go first. the person with no job going out to buy dinner with money they dont have? or the corporations to open their pocketbooks with the money they do have to create jobs so people can have money to buy a dinner???


Basically, although a little extreme, but you're indeed grasping the gist of it.



THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Monday, March 16, 2009 6:48 PM on j-body.org
so i choose the chicken because the egg cant eat without money. to get money it needs a job. the chicken who has the money can open the business to hire the egg to give it money to buy the goods.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:47 AM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

so i choose the chicken because the egg cant eat without money. to get money it needs a job. the chicken who has the money can open the business to hire the egg to give it money to buy the goods.

And where does that chicken get the money to hire the egg when the government is taking more and more of it's money to give out to the eggs who don't work?






Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:27 AM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:

sndsgood wrote:

so i choose the chicken because the egg cant eat without money. to get money it needs a job. the chicken who has the money can open the business to hire the egg to give it money to buy the goods.

And where does that chicken get the money to hire the egg when the government is taking more and more of it's money to give out to the eggs who don't work?


now that there is a really good question.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:00 AM on j-body.org
Anybody know where I can get some printing plates??? If the Fed. can print off money why cant I?



Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:15 AM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

so i choose the chicken because the egg cant eat without money. to get money it needs a job. the chicken who has the money can open the business to hire the egg to give it money to buy the goods.

Oh brother, but I'll play along.
So you're assuming that Chicken will hire the Egg? Heh, what country is your keyboard and mouse that you're typing/scrolling your fairy tale on made in again?
Although you would like to give Chicken the oxygen tank to survive, it is up to the egg to continually replenish Chicken's oxygen tank.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:02 AM on j-body.org
Err, both the chicken and egg are mutually dependent on one another.

Penalize or overcompensate either side and you'll see a collapse.



Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:30 AM on j-body.org
your right they are dependant, but if you have a person with no money, (unemployed person) and a person with money that can start a company to make a job for the unemployed person to work at, then you have a solution to the problem. taxing the person with the money is not going to help the situation. now the person with the money just holds onto his money instead of starting that company. so the company doesnt get built and the unemployed person stays unemployed.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:11 AM on j-body.org
This thread has been amusing. The bad economy a lie what kind of stuff are you smoking. Seriously take it from someone down on the ground in a good state. Living around Boston we have seen unemployment in MA go right up and it has been across the Board. I work in the engineering field as an MEP designer and right now it is slow. When the building owners cant secure financing for projects architects dont have work. When they lack work they lay people off, When they dont have work firms like mine have low work loads. This then goes down to the contractors and then the workers themselves.

As for olive garden being expensive that is not the case. I still get out and eat at places like that. It is the places like capitol grill i am cutting out(100+ for two people)


Do unto others as you would have done unto you
Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:32 AM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

your right they are dependant, but if you have a person with no money, (unemployed person) and a person with money that can start a company to make a job for the unemployed person to work at, then you have a solution to the problem. taxing the person with the money is not going to help the situation. now the person with the money just holds onto his money instead of starting that company. so the company doesnt get built and the unemployed person stays unemployed.


Love the scenarios you that position one side and the other. Worst case for one side, and optimistic and established for the other. Brilliant way for you prove your point.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:41 AM on j-body.org
who said i was proving a point? I am just stating an opinion and in reality if you dont have money because your unemployed, for most people that IS a worst case scenario.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: This whole bad economy thing is a LIE
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 3:49 AM on j-body.org
Just because this thread was brought up in another thread, it made me want to bump it just to ask:

So Downlinx, which job did you end up taking?







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