Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows. - Page 3 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:17 PM on j-body.org
TheSundownFire wrote:

Abortion from a purely legal standpoint is NOT murder. Murder is the intentional killing of a human now even if the fetus is a functioning human, the mother and abortionist both believe it not to be, without a reasonable, therefore they are not intentionally killing a human because its not a human to them. Its like if two hunters went out and one hunter accidentally killed another because the first hunter thought the second was a deer or whatever. It wasnt intentional because the first hunter didnt see the second hunter as a human but as a deer. If anything abortion is accidental manslaughter.

Horrible analogy. There is a vast chasm of disparity between an accident and a difference in belief.

However, I wanted to respond to the first part. Here is a question for you: why are there plenty of people who believe in pro-choice, because a fetus isn't a human being yet, but also support the dual-murder laws when someone kills a pregnant woman? Seems like a convenient double-standard to me.








Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:42 PM on j-body.org
Well the pro-choice people in general dont support 3rd trimester abortion which is what the double homicide is applied to I believe as is the Roe v. Wade decision. So killing a woman in her first or second trimester doesnt constitute a double murder and its pretty much illegal to abort a 3rd trimester fetus.



Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Friday, March 20, 2009 2:38 PM on j-body.org
Let me tell a story about myself. Back in 1987 I was really interested in UFOs. I devoured books on the subject and even today my library has to have about 50 books on it. 200 if you count books about the paranormal that could be "linked" to UFOs. Everything you'd wanna know about Whitley Strieber to Betty and Barney Hill to Roswell to the Bermuda Triangle to Mothman to Springheel Jack. It's all there.

However, I realized something about the UFO people in 1992 or so after five years of being on the bandwagon. They're crazy. Some of them mean well. Some of them are wonderful people, but THEY ARE LUNATICS. Not because their beliefs are ridiculous, but because they don't care about things like reality or proof or anything ressembling serious study of the matter. I still find much amusement in the subject, but I certainly don't believe in it, nor do I defend it beyond the "Well... there has to be life on other planets yanno?"

So when I see conservatives support Ann Coulter or Creationism or any other subject that I suspect that they don't believe in but feel they have to get behind in order to join the club. I'm embarrassed, for them.

I made a point earlier that I don't think anyone got. I mentionned how I'd be taught in school by Catholic Nuns and how they went out of their way to make sure that I didn't always blindly believe what they told me. They wanted me to read and experience the world, to make up my own mind. Here are a bunch of Conservatives teaching children to think what they want.

The problem with conservatives AND liberals isn't what you believe, it's you refuse to allow people to make up their own minds. You want people to agree with you, wether they like it or not. You don't care about reality, no more than those UFO people cared about it, you just want the facts to agree with your beliefs. No matter what they are.

I wouldn't care if my kids went to a liberal school or a conservative school. As long as the teachers knew they couldn't possibly always be right and taught the kids that not everything was black and white. Some things are very messy and there might not be a satisfying solution. That's life.

Look at it this way. If you really hate how global change is being taught in school as a science, then you know what it's like for me when I hear that people are teaching intelligent design. You've been given the unique experience of seeing the world through the other guy's eyes and here you are WASTING IT by being mad against the belief instead of empathizing with the idea of magic being taught as a real subject.

Sometimes the enemy is you as much as it is them. Remember that.
Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Friday, March 20, 2009 2:48 PM on j-body.org
Im always open to view the other side. I was very religious for a few years of my life and the more I started looking at it, it made no sense to me. Its not like I hate Christianity. I just dont see a logical point to it. But thats just me. Maybe thats why Im different. Im going from a purely secular view most of the time. I like to leave religion out because its muddys the waters.




Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Friday, March 20, 2009 5:03 PM on j-body.org
"Just because its not "our" believe and how dare they make us do anything." -TheSundownFire Interesting. So we'll all do that which is right in our own eyes correct?

No, of course not. Like it or not, the nation was not founded by a group of atheists. There may have been a few here and there (so spare me the cut+paste "proof" you found in your college textbook ok) Mostly "Christian men".

Look at the countries in this world. Those ran by atheists and agnostic socialist/ commies....well, I don't see anyone here lining up to switch sides. Riddled with faults, the USA is the greatest nation on earth, a nation founded on Christian principles, and filled with arrogant americans that think their country is the is the greatest nation on earth, a nation founded on Christian principles, and filled with arrogant americans that think their country is the is the greatest nation on earth, a nation founded on Christian principles, and filled with arrogant americans that think their country is the is the greatest nation on earth, a nation founded on Christian principles, and filled with arrogant americans that think their country is the is the greatest nation on earth, a nation founded on Christian principles, and filled with arrogant americans that think their country is the is the greatest nation on earth, a nation founded on Christian principles, and filled with arrogant americans that think their country is the greatest nation on earth.

.



“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Friday, March 20, 2009 5:07 PM on j-body.org
Knoxfire Esquire wrote:

Let me tell a story about myself. Back in 1987 I was really interested in UFOs. I devoured books on the subject and even today my library has to have about 50 books on it. 200 if you count books about the paranormal that could be "linked" to UFOs. Everything you'd wanna know about Whitley Strieber to Betty and Barney Hill to Roswell to the Bermuda Triangle to Mothman to Springheel Jack. It's all there.

However, I realized something about the UFO people in 1992 or so after five years of being on the bandwagon. They're crazy. Some of them mean well. Some of them are wonderful people, but THEY ARE LUNATICS. Not because their beliefs are ridiculous, but because they don't care about things like reality or proof or anything ressembling serious study of the matter. I still find much amusement in the subject, but I certainly don't believe in it, nor do I defend it beyond the "Well... there has to be life on other planets yanno?"

So when I see conservatives support Ann Coulter or Creationism or any other subject that I suspect that they don't believe in but feel they have to get behind in order to join the club. I'm embarrassed, for them.

I made a point earlier that I don't think anyone got. I mentionned how I'd be taught in school by Catholic Nuns and how they went out of their way to make sure that I didn't always blindly believe what they told me. They wanted me to read and experience the world, to make up my own mind. Here are a bunch of Conservatives teaching children to think what they want.

The problem with conservatives AND liberals isn't what you believe, it's you refuse to allow people to make up their own minds. You want people to agree with you, wether they like it or not. You don't care about reality, no more than those UFO people cared about it, you just want the facts to agree with your beliefs. No matter what they are.

I wouldn't care if my kids went to a liberal school or a conservative school. As long as the teachers knew they couldn't possibly always be right and taught the kids that not everything was black and white. Some things are very messy and there might not be a satisfying solution. That's life.

Look at it this way. If you really hate how global change is being taught in school as a science, then you know what it's like for me when I hear that people are teaching intelligent design. You've been given the unique experience of seeing the world through the other guy's eyes and here you are WASTING IT by being mad against the belief instead of empathizing with the idea of magic being taught as a real subject.

Sometimes the enemy is you as much as it is them. Remember that.


VERY good post. This is really all I've been trying to say the entire time I've been posting in the war forum, it's not black and white, all good or all bad.

Flame me if you want, but search Zeitgeist remastered on google and watch the first religion part. Very eye opening.



Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Friday, March 20, 2009 5:50 PM on j-body.org
Contrary to popular belief here, I have a very open mind. I look at everything logicly, using the facts that I can get my hands on. If I don't have enough facts to come to a conclusion, I find them.

When it comes to religion, I have been religious for most of my life, but over the past few years, I have really begun to look at the teachings of my religion, and questioned everything. The interesting thing is that, while I find many things that blow it out of the water, I have also found things that support some of it, and make me continue to question everything. However, I still have my core values, related to morality, that will still not change regardless of what I conclude as far as my religious beliefs. There are things which I feel strongly about, both religiously, and otherwise, and I will debate (I actually enjoy a good debate anyway) them with people who believe otherwise.

By the way, I own both Zeitgeist, and the Zeitgeist Addendum on DVD. I'm quite familiar with them.







Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Friday, March 20, 2009 6:12 PM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:

Contrary to popular belief here, I have a very open mind. I look at everything logicly, using the facts that I can get my hands on. If I don't have enough facts to come to a conclusion, I find them.

When it comes to religion, I have been religious for most of my life, but over the past few years, I have really begun to look at the teachings of my religion, and questioned everything. The interesting thing is that, while I find many things that blow it out of the water, I have also found things that support some of it, and make me continue to question everything. However, I still have my core values, related to morality, that will still not change regardless of what I conclude as far as my religious beliefs. There are things which I feel strongly about, both religiously, and otherwise, and I will debate (I actually enjoy a good debate anyway) them with people who believe otherwise.

By the way, I own both Zeitgeist, and the Zeitgeist Addendum on DVD. I'm quite familiar with them.


Agreed. Although I am not a religious person by any means, nor do I believe in a bearded figure shaking his finger at me every time I eat meat on sundays, I still maintain what I believe to be a good and moral lifestyle and hope that everyone else tries to do the same. What I do believe in however, is karma.



Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Friday, March 20, 2009 7:21 PM on j-body.org
Knoxfire Esquire wrote:

Let me tell a story about myself. Back in 1987 I was really interested in UFOs. I devoured books on the subject and even today my library has to have about 50 books on it. 200 if you count books about the paranormal that could be "linked" to UFOs. Everything you'd wanna know about Whitley Strieber to Betty and Barney Hill to Roswell to the Bermuda Triangle to Mothman to Springheel Jack. It's all there.

However, I realized something about the UFO people in 1992 or so after five years of being on the bandwagon. They're crazy. Some of them mean well. Some of them are wonderful people, but THEY ARE LUNATICS. Not because their beliefs are ridiculous, but because they don't care about things like reality or proof or anything ressembling serious study of the matter. I still find much amusement in the subject, but I certainly don't believe in it, nor do I defend it beyond the "Well... there has to be life on other planets yanno?"

So when I see conservatives support Ann Coulter or Creationism or any other subject that I suspect that they don't believe in but feel they have to get behind in order to join the club. I'm embarrassed, for them.

I made a point earlier that I don't think anyone got. I mentionned how I'd be taught in school by Catholic Nuns and how they went out of their way to make sure that I didn't always blindly believe what they told me. They wanted me to read and experience the world, to make up my own mind. Here are a bunch of Conservatives teaching children to think what they want.

The problem with conservatives AND liberals isn't what you believe, it's you refuse to allow people to make up their own minds. You want people to agree with you, wether they like it or not. You don't care about reality, no more than those UFO people cared about it, you just want the facts to agree with your beliefs. No matter what they are.

I wouldn't care if my kids went to a liberal school or a conservative school. As long as the teachers knew they couldn't possibly always be right and taught the kids that not everything was black and white. Some things are very messy and there might not be a satisfying solution. That's life.

Look at it this way. If you really hate how global change is being taught in school as a science, then you know what it's like for me when I hear that people are teaching intelligent design. You've been given the unique experience of seeing the world through the other guy's eyes and here you are WASTING IT by being mad against the belief instead of empathizing with the idea of magic being taught as a real subject.

Sometimes the enemy is you as much as it is them. Remember that.
Excellent post - and I bolded what was probably the most important part. So many people(especially highly partisan people) don't take facts and adjust their beliefs accordingly, instead they subconsciously "adjust" facts to fit their notion of reality(or sometimes they simply outright reject some facts as "lies and deceptions" if they disagree with their "reality" too firmly). It's amazing to see and the ones doing it have NO IDEA that that are actually doing this. But... they certainly notice how those opposed to them do it. Its the day to day irony of sheep accusing sheep of being sheep.

BTW - I think "double murder" laws are just plain stupid. I'd say that the ancient Hebrews had a more conservative and "moral" society than our own, and even they had no such law. As has been pointed out by someone here before(although I've also heard of this before) - Japanese culture (very conservative BTW) - considers organ transplanting to be outright grave robbing and probably one of the most morally outrageous things you could do. Yet, abortion isn't such a big deal over there. Morality isn't universal.

So if some of you think Abortion is wrong, and therefore we should impose your morality into law, consider this. Many other people things its immoral to treat illegal aliens any different just because of their legal status(I don't agree BTW). They think we should give them all the great things taxpayers pay for... because that is what is morally right... OBVIOUSLY. Well its "obvious" to them, not to all. Think about that for a moment.





Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:45 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

"Just because its not "our" believe and how dare they make us do anything." -TheSundownFire Interesting. So we'll all do that which is right in our own eyes correct?


You completely took that out of context. I was just saying how many people are ok with belittling and forcing views upon others but as soon as something is force on them they throw a fit about it.

Karma is a good way to live. I try to live morally and right. My morals are just slightly different than most. Im not preaching any kind of deviant immoral behaivor or anything. Just more of a live and let live. The greatest good for the greatness number. Utilitarianism FTW.



Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:32 PM on j-body.org
Bk3k,

The Hebrews had no such law? I can't recall the exact reference, but in the OT, it mentions that if a man strike a woman with child and mischief follows (translated means, stillborn) then he was to be put to death. Yeah, God had it wrong even back then...silly God.....

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:35 PM on j-body.org
The things I read (in Bible) said that if a woman is struck and causes fetal death the man owes nothing more than a payment to the husband.



Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:45 PM on j-body.org
In the old testament, yes. But what dose it say about that in the new?


Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:34 PM on j-body.org
Nothing I believe. Havent cracked open a Bible in quite awhile though.



Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:53 AM on j-body.org
ScottaWhite wrote:

Bk3k,

The Hebrews had no such law? I can't recall the exact reference, but in the OT, it mentions that if a man strike a woman with child and mischief follows (translated means, stillborn) then he was to be put to death. Yeah, God had it wrong even back then...silly God.....

.
My internet has been down for a few days. My response is late therefore.

If a man should strike a woman with child and cause her too loose that child, he shall pay the fine(financial - could be a cow, 3 chickens, etc) demanded of him by the woman's husband. If that man should also kill the woman... an eye for an eye(obviously death).

That might not be verbatim, just my best recollection of the wording. Silly God(note - I don't actually think God is silly), he "forgot" to prohibit/condemn/mention abortion. God must have "accidentally" separated killing the unborn with actual murder by giving them vastly different punishments. [/sarcasm]

But heck, you guys are right... Lets all pass all our Morality on others as law.

No Abortion(Social Conservatives).
No Condoms or other birth control(Catholics).
No use of embryonic stem cells(still on the Conservative agenda for some reason) for medical research that would have otherwise been discarded.
No "improperly clothed" women(plenty of jealous uptight old housewives).
No meat(its murder... LOL) or any animal product usage.
No animal testing of any kind(its cruel).
No hunting(its murder for sport).
No organ transplant(various cultures).
No sex outside of marriage under penalty of stoning to death(Jews/Christians used to and some Muslims still do... or burn them to death etc).
No more divorce(because marriage is sacred).
No alcohol or tobacco(Do I need to explain this?).
No oral or anal sex (even among straight married couples).
No listening to "immoral music" (to some people this includes ALL secular music).
No technology usage(Amish).
No guns(Liberals).

I think I could go on all day with this list. Of course its silly, but from my perspective people wanting to push their morality into law over all are a bit more than "silly." Yet for everything on my list, there are people who take these causes seriously just as many of you take the anti-abortion cause seriously. Just for perspective...





Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 12:42 PM on j-body.org
ScottaWhite wrote:

Yessir, once again thousands of years later, we are buring fossil fuels for fun, and eating burgers out of non-biodegradable foam boxes and throwing them out the windows of our SUV's while driving too fast.....and the ice is going away!!!!!!!!!!!!


I see you're a Dennis Leary fan?

Anyway, you've made a valid...argument? I guess that's what it is. But I still lack the understanding as to why it's so bad to teach our children to help "save mother earth" since we're, essentially, leaving them with a '97 Cavalier of a planet. (AKA...was once new, clean and relatively nice, and now just gets you to the store to buy more booze and ammo.)


Brian


Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:01 PM on j-body.org
Quote:

If a man should strike a woman with child and cause her too loose that child, he shall pay the fine(financial - could be a cow, 3 chickens, etc) demanded of him by the woman's husband. If that man should also kill the woman... an eye for an eye(obviously death).


Thats the passage I referred to. Its in Exodus 21.

I had my debate for abortion and I got completely crucified in front of my class (over half Catholic). But I think I did pretty well defending a point that is that divisive. A reference to babies in a trash can got some interesting reactions.





Re: Elementary school...the training camps for greeny rainbows.
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:46 AM on j-body.org
Ok, I'm a bit late to this thread, but what the hell. Several points here.

One, being a homosexual may be a choice in about 1-2% of cases, but the vast majority make no choice. The only choice they make is to come out and be who they are. It's a result of a genetic mutation while in the womb. It's disturbing how often you hear people try to equate homosexuality and pedophilia. These aren't even remotely similar. For starters, homosexual sex occurs between consenting adults, otherwise it's rape. Pedophilia is sexual abuse of a minor who cannot consent to such an act. It's quite pathetic on your part to make such a comparison and speaks volumes to the kind of person you are and just how "tolerant" you are. Someone asked it earlier, but I'd still love to know what is so unhealthy and wrong about gay sex. How does two guys/girls getting it on affect your life? Are you afraid you're going to catch the gay in the wind?

Two, religion doesn't equal morality. I'm personally an atheist and I'm more of a "christian" than any of the actual christians I know, morally speaking. Things like natural law and common sense is where morality comes from. You don't need religion to dictate that. I don't have a problem with religion, save for when they decide people like me are the worst kind of people in the world and couldn't possibly have a moral fiber in my body.

Three, for the original topic at hand. Liberals tend to be the ones who become teachers, though I had many right wingers when I was in high school and college as well, since they tend to place a higher position on education. There's really no way to change it. It was my experience that the teachers I had who seemed to be left leaning were actually the ones who wanted us to think for ourselves and come to our own conclusions. The few I had who were obviously right leaning were actually quite the opposite and were very unfavorable when it came to free thinking. This was just my experience and obviously not necessarily the normal occurance.

Now this issue of them teaching global warming and such things, I ask is that so bad? Whether global warming is just a trend, or a bigger problem as it appears it could be, what's the harm in teaching/supporting biodiversity and the elimination of fossil fuels? Protecting wildlife and the environment is a GOOD thing even if the ridiculous tree huggers have turned you off from such an idea. And hell, forget the environment, the crap we're pumping into the water and air is no good for us. I'm sorry, but I don't see this as a problem. It's forward thinking and frankly I don't believe we should wait until the fossil fuels are drained up before coming up with other viable options, especially those that are better for the environment.



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