Revolution begining? - Politics and War Forum

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Revolution begining?
Friday, May 15, 2009 3:18 PM on j-body.org
I think the revolution has begun. Core values and belief in the constitution is making its way back. Please read up on the Bill of rights, declaration of independence and if you believe in these founding fathers, then we all have something in common. Take a look at all of these things happening around you if you do not believe this. Here is just some of the things we are seeing.

http://thepatrickhenrycaucus.org/
http://912project.com/
http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/
http://www.teapartyday.com/

We are seeing thousands turn out for tea parties. We are seeing states pass laws for their 2nd Amendment rights. We are seeing states pass legislation for their 10th Amendment rights. The list goes on and on. It is truly a time in history we are seeing unfold before our eyes. Hope all of you are on board if not, you should be.





Re: Revolution begining?
Friday, May 15, 2009 4:13 PM on j-body.org
WI state DA told the population that they will no longer be prosecuted for open carrying a pistol.....

I hope to God people are reading said documents and remembering that they are Americans.


Some states need to remember there 10th and drill for there own damn oil!


Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: Revolution begining?
Friday, May 15, 2009 9:22 PM on j-body.org
Sorry to throw a wet blanket on your fun, but revolutions take more than a slim minority to pull off. You guys might be a very angry, very vocal minority as it where - while being loud and trying to grab attention at every chance might make your numbers feel larger just as your anger may make you feel righteous - you are still a small minority. Your revolution will not be televised.

Plus I'm curious where the revolution has been the last 8 years. The lefties and indies(like myself) have spent the last 8 years in a near constant pissed off mode. Of course we expressed our anger through DEMOCRACY rather than revolution and mopped up the last 2 elections(well in my case I think power was just shifted to the lessor evil). A minority - no matter how angry you may be - imposing its will over the majority, that does not happen in a democracy. If your revolution where to be successful however, then that would be called a DICTATORSHIP.

The biggest thing that separates a Democracy from a Dictatorship isn't so much the power of the leadership(although I do prefer less intrusive - yet balanced - government and a limited executive), its whether the majority opinion rules the land - no matter what that opinion is. As the majority moves, so must a Democratic nation.

I don't care if you are mad and want to voice your opinion - it's the talk of revolution and/or secession that I have issue with. This is a free nation - your free to expression your opinion and vote according to how you want things ran, as well if you get overruled by the majority and aren't willing to accept that - you are free to move to a nation that is ran more to your tastes. You are NOT free to impose your views on those who disagree via revolution or any such thing.

Revolution is a valid choice ONLY in the case that the government is not responsive to the will of Democracy. We are talking about serious offenses not just some things you don't agree with. Perhaps that is the lie you are being sold that says otherwise. This nation IS being responsive to the majority - and thus to the will of Democracy - you just don't like what that majority says. Call them fools if you want but the truth remains the same.

Despite how many people might want to dress up like our forefathers - this is NOTHING like 1776. Obama is NOT King George III. Contrary to the "no taxation without representation" chants I've heard - you guys DO have representation. Apparently some people can't comprehend the difference between not having representation and not having majority control. Our forefathers had NO VOTE on the matter - all this over tax that hasn't even been waged(also against gun laws that haven't even been PROPOSED let alone passed and signed)!!

So quite frankly, @!#$ YOUR REVOLUTION. If you want an armed overthrow of Democracy... despite my many criticisms of it, I love my nation and I promise you that like so many others(a majority in fact) - I will be there to kill any and all traitors. I might loose my own life too, and so be it if that's what it takes.





Re: Revolution begining?
Friday, May 15, 2009 9:25 PM on j-body.org
Im not seeing how those sites equal a revolution. Protest and legislation is all I see. Hardly is a revolution at all.



Re: Revolution begining?
Saturday, May 16, 2009 10:15 AM on j-body.org
Just a bunch of sites with glenn beck clips, preaching that we should go back to how it felt on September 12. Things like this worry me that someone's going to get the bright idea to pull off another attack to get us all 'united' again.



Re: Revolution begining?
Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:06 PM on j-body.org
Yea... I saw Glen Beck and realized it's just more waste of time.



Re: Revolution begining?
Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:27 PM on j-body.org
the American Revolution was not popular either....

seems to me, you people like to jump on the popular band wagon, matter of fact, I'd bet, 20SEP01 you were really pro American, and anti middle east.

don't answer, just be honest with yourself.


Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: Revolution begining?
Sunday, May 17, 2009 7:34 PM on j-body.org
Not to mention, "popular" sentiment is often spoken by those who are afraid of being unpopular.
It makes you question how popular it really is. Not enough people these days have enough balls to say what they really believe.







Re: Revolution begining?
Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:27 PM on j-body.org
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep, not enough people have the balls to answer anonymous polling honestly... I'm sure.

Taetsch Z-24 wrote:

the American Revolution was not popular either....


The American Revolution wasn't popular? I must of missed that one in the history books. So do you mean to tell me that a small portion of the population triumphed over both the most power empire on Earth at the time(admittingly with some help from France) AND most of its own population?! You can't seriously believe that...

Plus the American Revolution was not fought over mere policy differences - more to the fact that we had no say aka NO VOTE on whatever policy was enforced upon us as well as other issues of freedom. If you want a better comparison to today - the time leading up to the American Civil War rings to mind(Hey - Obama seems to fancy himself as Abe Lincoln).

Think about this - many states seceded from the union and formed the Confederacy not so much because any Federal anti-slavery laws where actually passed(they where not), but because of the paranoia created by the mere fact that there was a president elected who supported such changes (sound a little like today maybe?). It may have been a "state's rights" issue, but at the core it was about the state's right to decide on its own if slavery would be allowed. Despite his dislike of slavery, Lincoln never even attempted to free the slaves until well into the war(which really was done as a tactic to stop Europe from supporting the Confederacy). There is a very big reason for this -

Slavery very likely may not have been ended at all under Lincoln's presidency if the Southern states hadn't been so stupid about the whole thing(again seceding over their fear of that which hadn't even happened). I assume it would have happened at a later date though (perhaps early to mid 20th century), but certainly not until the issue was less contentious. There's almost no chance he could have had the political muscle to make his goal of eliminating slavery a reality without the South's secession. Remember - Constitutional Amendments must be voted upon and approved - most of the opposing states left the Union - thus making a once impossible-to-pass amendment... child's play. Lets look at what it takes to pass a constitutional amendment.

It takes two-thirds of both the House and the Senate just to make an official proposal. Alternatively(its never been done this way), a Constitutional Convention must be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the individual States and the amendment may be officially proposed at that Constitutional Convention. Either way - That amendment must then be approved by three-fourths of the states to become law. No hotly contested issue(such as slavery then or a "Definition of Marriage" Amendment today) has a snowball's chance in hell of passing. At least not until all the NAY votes leave the union. The Confederacy made possible the destruction of the very institution it was formed to protect. Ironic, isn't it?!

Plus, Thanks largely to communications technology and ease of transportation, opinions(political or otherwise) aren't nearly as regionally decided as they once where. There aren't likely any states left that can almost unanimously say they support or oppose most any given policy. There really is no clean way to break up the union into states based on regional opinion. If we tried to go that route - things could get VERY ugly (not that the original US Civil War was so pretty).

I might have went well off topic here, but maybe you guys might want to learn a bit from history - mistakes already made and all.





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