do we really need healthcare reform? - Politics and War Forum

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do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:47 AM on j-body.org
Obama says the system is broken. The system is not broken, people just don't want to pay for it because they want to pay for a bigger flat screen TV, cell phone, and credit cards and they don't want to exercise.
I have insurance thru my work I don't need the government and if my insurance goes up because of this healthcare reform i'm not going to be happy at all.
if we nationalize heathcare, how are we going to afford it?

Here in TN Kids without medical insurance get TennCare and is free for them. The tax payers pay for it.

I hardly go to the doctor, I try to stay healthy ride my bike and do my pushups try to eat well.
People who are overweight need to exercise, I know is hard but they need to get off the couch and walk or do something.
if they have time to watch TV they should have time to exercise.
then I see on TV does lose weight programs and they say you don't have to exercise? yeah right!l you need to exercise!!! if not then how is the heart going to get the Cardio?????
they keep saying Eat more, exercise less, lose weight in 8 weeks!!!! "you do not have to go to a GYM" they make you think going to a gym is evil.
@!#$ just get up and walk damn it!!!!


"is not that I don't care, it is not my responsibility"

Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:43 AM on j-body.org
Obama wants everyone to believe that it's the system that is broken, so that the government can "fix it" (read "take it over"). It is not the system, rather some holes that need to be plugged to stop the hemorrhaging.

That's the short, simple answer.

Your first point is not far from he truth. The 45 million figure of uninsured includes millions (I forget the figure, but it's available if you search for it) who are eligible for Medicare or Medicaid, but haven't applied for it, as well as people who can afford health insurance, but don't have it (goes to your buying TVs and cell phones instead). The bottom line is that the scare tactic of 1/7th of our citizens being without health insurance is a disingenuous figure meant to bolster believe in a lie.







Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:56 PM on j-body.org
Following the sudden death of pitchman Billy Mays, the Whitehouse is going back to the drawing board to come up with a successful campaign to sell the HR676 (The United States National Health Insurance Act) to the American People. Until the sudden death of the well known pitchman, the Obama team was in negotiations with him to produce a series of infomercials on the plan. It is unknown who the Whitehouse might turn to as a second choice. An unconfirmed source stated that they may move to sign Vince Shlomi in the wake of the tragedy.






Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:36 PM on j-body.org
It's not necessarily how fit you are and who can't afford it or the medicare problem.

I got a bill receipt once from a chest scan I needed. A simple one too, nothing too dramatic. Over $5500 charged to the insurance company. The problems are: wrongful suits have gotten out of control. Doctor prices have skyrocketed. Ins. companies are willing to pay, but then charging their customers for it. People who are employed with good benefits are ok, but those without coverage (for whatever reason) are pretty much screwed.

So it's not just about people who are too lazy to apply for medicare - its the whole healthcare system in general. You start to question what is a "life" worth in $. But at the same time, doctors shouldn't be greedy sob's solely based on big houses and fancy cars. Those fancy scan machines may cost millions of dollars, but they sure as hell don't need to be charging an average citizen 1 year of their spare income for some scans. Across the world, health care isn't as expensive or rediculously overpriced as it's gotten here, and it's not because of one player's fault.

What we need is a solid healthcare system without all this bs, which basically boils down to money.



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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:01 PM on j-body.org
Turns out that included in those 45 million uninsured "Americans"........


Illegal immigrants -who can accurately count those worthless bags of crap, but lets throw out a guess....10 million.

Citizens age 18-30- Quite likely, the age group least likely to need health insurance, much less use it even if its there.

People who have access to health insurance, but choose not to purchase it. (full-time job with option to buy in on the employee plan for $150 per month)

People who would rather spend their money on something else.

Some who have made poor financial decisions their entire life, living rapid-refund to rapid-refund check every year.

Also, lets not overlook the "exceptions" The exceptions are the tear-jerking stories of somebody just like you and me.....someone who works 3 jobs just to make ends meet.....someone who's 9 yr old daughter is dying of hodgkins lymphoma, but can't afford the treatment (camera zoom to teary-eyed dad, crying that he's just a horrible father, because he cant take care of his little girl. <kisses her on the head>

It seems the obama supporters/bush haters have become increasingly quiet lately. This place used to be crawling with them. What gives?

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:21 PM on j-body.org
Because almost every single post now in this form is in some way, shape, or form negative towards Obama that no one really gives a @!#$ anymore to continue a b***h fest. This isn't posting facts for a debate, this is just beating the horse more and more. We all know that you're not going to change your mind and will try your hardest to make Obama be the worst thing this country has ever had.

Yet many people (besides you) still like him. That's why (jmo) this forum is quiet. No one cares to "debate" your closed minded opinions.



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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:02 PM on j-body.org
Viper98912 wrote:

I got a bill receipt once from a chest scan I needed. A simple one too, nothing too dramatic. Over $5500 charged to the insurance company. The problems are: wrongful suits have gotten out of control. Doctor prices have skyrocketed. Ins. companies are willing to pay, but then charging their customers for it. People who are employed with good benefits are ok, but those without coverage (for whatever reason) are pretty much screwed.

So it's not just about people who are too lazy to apply for medicare - its the whole healthcare system in general. You start to question what is a "life" worth in $. But at the same time, doctors shouldn't be greedy sob's solely based on big houses and fancy cars. Those fancy scan machines may cost millions of dollars, but they sure as hell don't need to be charging an average citizen 1 year of their spare income for some scans. Across the world, health care isn't as expensive or rediculously overpriced as it's gotten here, and it's not because of one player's fault.

What we need is a solid healthcare system without all this bs, which basically boils down to money.

The point was that the rhetoric as to how bad the problem is is disingenuous. It's not that they are the main reason for the problem. However, the people who fall into the list I mentioned, and Scott listed, are still part of the cost problem.

With regards to the costs being simply because they can get it, answer this: do you have any idea what the malpractice insurance costs doctors and hospitals? That is the biggest reason for the skyrocketing costs. Also, next time you have something done, ask the hospital to see the bill, and then ask them what if you pay for it, and see what they tell you. While you might think that they charge so much just because the insurance companies pay it, but most insurance companies don't pay the full bill. For this reason, the cost is jacked up, so that when they get their reimbursement, which is just a percentage, it still covers all of their costs.

You are right in one fact, though: the suits have gotten out of control. This is exactly why tort reform is what's needed more than anything. The lawyers getting rich on frivolous lawsuits, or outrageous damage awards, need to be reigned in. But again, look at where Obama comes from, and where his backing is, and you'll realize why he won't go there.

As for our healthcare costs being the highest in the world, think about this: we have the best quality of care, and doctors from all over the world come to practice here. Why? Because they can make the best money. When that goes away, not only will we no longer have the pick of the best from around the world, but less people will be willing to enter the field, because of the many years of study, and hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs them to get into the field. If you want our costs to be down where the rest of the world is, remember that you get what you pay for.

I'm seriously so sick of hearing how someone is greedy because they work their ass off to get somewhere, and then they enjoy their living once they achieve it. The majority of the people with these sentiments are not willing to do what it takes to get to that level, so they would rather just complain that the ones who do don't deserve it. Tell me why anyone should pay hundreds of thousands of dollars and spend twice the time in college than most, and have the same living.

Viper98912 wrote:

Yet many people (besides you) still like him. That's why (jmo) this forum is quiet. No one cares to "debate" your closed minded opinions.

Look at the polls. Many people still like him because he's still in the celebrity style glow, but his approvals are dropping rapidly, and the majority of polls regarding his policies show people don't approve of what he's doing. The problem is that they are not tying feelings toward him with his policies. They are still not entirely watching what he does more than what he says he's doing, or really listening closesly. This gap is closing finally, and you will see a change in peoples' attitudes soon. I got a chuckle watching Meet the Press today, and they mentioned that Obama still has a 6 point higher approval rating that Bush did at this point in 2001. What they failed to remark on is that the disapproval rating was equal (34% vs. Bush's 35% ). The difference: less undecided than with Bush. Why? The glamorizing from the media is still having an effect.

Why aren't people debating the "close minded opinions"? Maybe it's because people who once did are starting to realize that the patterns emerging show that Obama is not what he wants everyone to believe he is.







Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:08 PM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:

Why aren't people debating the "close minded opinions"?


Because smart people know it's pointless, so you move on rather than waste your time (and aggrevation). You're never going to fit the square block into the circle hole.



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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:35 PM on j-body.org
I was talking to a customer when I worked at a Pontiac dealer who happened to be a doctor. His malpractice insurance was $300,000/year. He was telling me that he was sued by a family whos son he did an operation on and subsequently did not make it. the family was advised that there was only a 10% chance of survival if the operation was performed and they agreed to it anyways. Their son did not make it and they sued the doctor. A jury awarded them $15 million for the loss. I see a big problem with the current system as far as what is allowed with stupid ass lawsuits.



Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:11 PM on j-body.org
Here in America a lot of people think they're victims and they want to sue anyone about anything. They do things knowing what's going to happen but later on they go to court against it.


"is not that I don't care, it is not my responsibility"
Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Monday, June 29, 2009 7:00 AM on j-body.org
Hey Viper,

So the reason all the obama drum-beaters are falling silent, is because their intellectual spider-sense tells them it is a waste of time? Ok...,i am convinced.


I really believe, the bottom line is this: Once the Iraq war issue is off the table, you aren't left with much else. Turns out that a vote for "anything but bush" wasn't such a great idea after all was it?

I think what has happened to the Obama supporters harkens back to something we learned growing up "if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Monday, June 29, 2009 7:57 AM on j-body.org
I think if John McCain was the president right now and things were still bad we would be hearing "I told you!!! now we have 4 more years of Bush" and then McCain would try to pass the INS amnesty bill to create some peace and then he would try to start drilling but the environmental people would be against it, the democrats would be against it, and so many people would be against. McCain was also a socialist.

People really wanted Bush out of the Office, when Obama Won, the world loved Obama. Even Dictator from Venezuela Hugo Chavez gave him a Book.

anyway, I though Hilary Clinton was the one who wanted to nationalize health care and she also wanted to give all women a baby bonus.
I hope Obama doesn't start that crap too


"is not that I don't care, it is not my responsibility"
Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Monday, June 29, 2009 8:00 AM on j-body.org
so here:

CHANGE!!











"is not that I don't care, it is not my responsibility"
Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Monday, June 29, 2009 10:27 AM on j-body.org
Viper98912 wrote:

Because almost every single post now in this form is in some way, shape, or form negative towards Obama that no one really gives a @!#$ anymore to continue a b***h fest. This isn't posting facts for a debate, this is just beating the horse more and more. We all know that you're not going to change your mind and will try your hardest to make Obama be the worst thing this country has ever had.

Yet many people (besides you) still like him. That's why (jmo) this forum is quiet. No one cares to "debate" your closed minded opinions.


Really, what can you expect from these hypocrites?
Remember, these are the same f-ckers that put us in this rat hole today and every time they leave office, yet their demigods could do no wrong. Or maybe they are just oblivious to their history.


ScottaWhite wrote:

]So the reason all the obama drum-beaters are falling silent, is because their intellectual spider-sense tells them it is a waste of time? Ok...,i am convinced.

So what would one accomplish?
Shi!t, all it did for me was: when usually I am in my 40s by this time.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Monday, June 29, 2009 1:41 PM on j-body.org
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

Shi!t, all it did for me was: when usually I am in my 40s by this time.

LOL. See what happens when you take the free ride? You get limits to your activity.

I get such a laugh when you use the term hypocrite all the time, as if it somehow places you on a higher intellectual plain than the rest of the ignorants you have to deal with. What you can't admit to yourself is that many of the people you argue with stand on principles, not just whatever their party does or says, so to you, anyone who criticizes the current administrations horrible policies must really be saying that everything in the past 8 years was perfect. Way to be narrow-minded.







Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Monday, June 29, 2009 3:21 PM on j-body.org
The problem as i see it is that the coverage offered to people is not equal at all. My friend is a teacher, and his fiancee works as an X-Ray tech in a hospital. Guess who gets better coverage, and by far? Yeah, thats right, the TEACHER. It is really @!#$ up when you work in a hospital and you are going to go on your spouse to be's insurance because it is better. Everyone should be offered the same types of coverage, on tiers, and whatever you want to pay for, you pay for. That way no one has an excuse, and everyone has the same friggin options. The health care system is not totally broken, but its pretty backasswards and dysfunctional. Heck, i pay a lot less a week for my health insurance, and its pretty comparable to my father's, minus the fact i need to meet a deductible before my benefits are fully functonal (i.e. its just a co-pay as opposed to a co-pay and then some)



Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Monday, June 29, 2009 7:29 PM on j-body.org
themarin8r wrote:

The problem as i see it is that the coverage offered to people is not equal at all. My friend is a teacher, and his fiancee works as an X-Ray tech in a hospital. Guess who gets better coverage, and by far? Yeah, thats right, the TEACHER. It is really @!#$ up when you work in a hospital and you are going to go on your spouse to be's insurance because it is better. Everyone should be offered the same types of coverage, on tiers, and whatever you want to pay for, you pay for. That way no one has an excuse, and everyone has the same friggin options. The health care system is not totally broken, but its pretty backasswards and dysfunctional. Heck, i pay a lot less a week for my health insurance, and its pretty comparable to my father's, minus the fact i need to meet a deductible before my benefits are fully functonal (i.e. its just a co-pay as opposed to a co-pay and then some)



Totally agree my friend
Back when I was married to my Xbitch she worked at a hospital right?
She had medical insurance, okay?
Her insurance Paid 80% of the bill, but!! if she went to the SAME Hospital that she worked at, that Hospital paid the 20% remaining!
I said wow!! wow!! wow!!
Let me get on that boat too!! we are married!!! at only 120.00 family plan, why not?
so I got on her insurance, then got sick, went to the same Hospital that she worked at, didn't pay nothing! that same hospital billed the insurance company and then the hospital paid or waived whatever the insurance did not cover. Why? Because I went to the same hospital my Xbitch worked at.
Normally the ER copay was only 50.00 dollars, but guess what? if I went to that hospital the copay was waived!!!

now that we are divorced and got my own insurance, not the best but not the cheapest, my ER copay is 150.00 regardless of what hospital I go to and I have to pay whatever my medical insurance does not cover.

What if everyone pays the same ER copay? regardless if you work at the hospital or not?
That way everyone gets screwed or pays the same.

Did my xbitch abuse her medial insurance?
Yes she did! She became addictive to pay medicine and every other month pretended to be in pain went to the ER and came out with new pain prescription medication.
she no longer works there btw
IF they nationalize healthcare, how many people are goinna go to the ER to get drugs?



"is not that I don't care, it is not my responsibility"
Re: do we really need healthcare reform?
Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:23 AM on j-body.org
As for our healthcare costs being the highest in the world, think about this: we have the best quality of care, and doctors from all over the world come to practice here. Why? Because they can make the best money. When that goes away, not only will we no longer have the pick of the best from around the world, but less people will be willing to enter the field, because of the many years of study, and hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs them to get into the field. If you want our costs to be down where the rest of the world is, remember that you get what you pay for.

I'm seriously so sick of hearing how someone is greedy because they work their ass off to get somewhere, and then they enjoy their living once they achieve it. The majority of the people with these sentiments are not willing to do what it takes to get to that level, so they would rather just complain that the ones who do don't deserve it. Tell me why anyone should pay hundreds of thousands of dollars and spend twice the time in college than most, and have the same living.




gotta totally agree here. its somehow seen as a crime now adays to bust your ass while growing up and expect a return on all your hard work, it seems in america instead of looking at those higher up and saying we need to work our butts off to be like that, they look at those higher up and criticise them and want to bring them down to the lazy mans level. america needs to return to striving to be one of the best, instead of trying to make the best be average.


The problem as i see it is that the coverage offered to people is not equal at all. My friend is a teacher, and his fiancee works as an X-Ray tech in a hospital. Guess who gets better coverage, and by far? Yeah, thats right, the TEACHER. It is really @!#$ up when you work in a hospital and you are going to go on your spouse to be's insurance because it is better. Everyone should be offered the same types of coverage, on tiers, and whatever you want to pay for, you pay for. That way no one has an excuse, and everyone has the same friggin options. The health care system is not totally broken, but its pretty backasswards and dysfunctional. Heck, i pay a lot less a week for my health insurance, and its pretty comparable to my father's, minus the fact i need to meet a deductible before my benefits are fully functonal (i.e. its just a co-pay as opposed to a co-pay and then some).



take a look at how much the teacher's employer is paying on their end of the coverage versus how much the x-ray techs employere is paying to see how things really add up. my company for example. every year that prices go up the company decides wether to change our coverage, or to spend the money to help the employee maintain their coverage. teachers for the most part are union, meaning they have tremendous buying power when it comes to insurance, so just like walmart they get the biggest price cuts for cost. a hospital while large if its privatly owned its buying power won't be as much. the system you have is i think a decent system. let the individual pay for the small miscalanoius stuff up to a certain point and then insurance kicks in. on a whole a bit safer for the insurance company because now they arn't being nickel and dimed to death. so it ends up being a cheaper option then what your dad has


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