Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg? - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Monday, July 13, 2009 7:15 PM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

as quick said. not to much diffrence then a stimulus package, just one little extra lump sum that gets spend in a weekend on bills and then nothing. lower taxes as a hole would increase spending more. kinda like would you rather have 300 bucks now or an extra 20 bucks a week permanent.

The sad thing is that, if you asked most people in our country that question these days, the majority of them would take the $300, because our society has become so instant-gratification that they can't possibly wait for the $1,000 a year they'd get with option 2.

This is exactly why feel-good liberalism gets so many followers: people would rather have a quick government fix that will f&$k them in the long run, than to work hard and have the patience to see their efforts pay off. To them, suggesting the latter is cruel and heartless.








Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Monday, July 13, 2009 8:41 PM on j-body.org
Alas.

The problem that has brought this all upon us is stated.

Quote:

because our society has become so instant-gratification


Ergo, The way out will be much harder, and I'm afraid, paved in blood.


Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Monday, July 13, 2009 8:53 PM on j-body.org
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:

The way out will be much harder, and I'm afraid, paved in blood.


I have to agree with this....

I've kinda skimmed through the lines in this thread... yeah people are impatient... why do you think H&R block has the rapid refund? Patience is a virtue....that so many people don't possess...

I'm from the communistwealth of Virginia.... (God forbid we cut our mufflers off)... but yall remember those two colored guys who were sniping random people in northern Va from a multi-rust-colored sleeper? Something like a HUGE 70's boat....plenty of room to play.... they had it figured out..... police didn't have a clue..... feds didn't know any suspects.... if they hadn't turned themselves in for the reward money, us Virginians would still be dropping like flies....

So I say go ahead with the tea parties and anti government protests.... Like William H Bonnie (aka Billy the Kid)... we gotta get some attention....


-Red-
Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Monday, July 13, 2009 10:04 PM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:

This encourages growth and spending because people and businesses can see that they will have a sustained increase in their bottom line, not just a one shot deal.
If you believe that, then how do you reconcile this line of thinking?
Quote:


At a news conference Friday, Republican lawmakers criticized the White House for spending so much, while simultaneously saying the administration wasn't spending it fast enough.
Spend it too quickly, and you have the same idea as stimulus checks. Spending it slowly tells investors that there is sustained income available. Its still not a permanent increase(yet) but it is better this way than quick spending it all - as demonstrated by your own line of thought concerning stimulus checks.




Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:56 AM on j-body.org
There is a huge difference there, because the "shovel ready" projects that were supposed to be filling that bill are only a temporary fix anyway, so by spreading them out, the only thing you're doing is setting up companies to possibly rehire people at a later date that they lay off in the near future. This does not cause a behaviour change, so to put it off does not make sense. I think Scottawhite actually hit the nail on the head with his thinking on the spending being planned close to the next mid-term elections. Remember the addage: the first job of any politician is to get re-elected? This group just takes it to a new level.

Lowering taxes causes a behaviour change, because the cost of operating a business drops, which means profitability will go up. This ecourages investment, because businesses and people can see a long term that there will be a payoff for their risk. This is the reason why tax cuts work, and government spending does not. The government can not spend enough to turn the economy around without taking it from the very people they're supposed to be helping. It is when they get out of the process entirely, and keep their hands out of the pockets of the private sector, that real job creation happens.

Let me just clarify that I'm all for the entire ARRA being repealed, because it is not going to stimulate the economy, but I was pointing out in my previous response to the article that the point the Republicans were making was that the massive spending bill put the majority of it off, so there was no way it was going to be saving jobs, because by the time we get to that spending, we'll already be in double-digit unemployment.

The other thing that I want to remind people of is that there are no tax breaks in the bill. The tax credits are a loan. The term "refundable tax credit" means that at a later date, you'll give it back. The only thing in that bill that I've found that is permanent, which I'm against, is the first time home buyer credit, because they eliminated the requirement of repayment, so they are now just giving out $8,000 to anyone buying their first home (in other words, we're paying for other people's down payment on their house). Previously, the credit was to be paid back in $500/year increments.






Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:35 AM on j-body.org
bk3k wrote:

Obama rejects 2nd stimulus: Give recovery time

Alright - now everyone start attacking Obama for not rushing directly into another stimulus package. This is Barack HUSSEIN Obama's decision after all so it must be a conspiracy to rob Americans of something...

(Angry mob forms in 5, 4, 3...)

just because he doesnt support a second stimulus doesnt make his passing the first one any better.





Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 7:13 AM on j-body.org
(tabs) wrote:

just because he doesnt support a second stimulus doesnt make his passing the first one any better.


while I agree, we do have to remember GWB started it with his send a check to every retard to go buy some uneeded material item stimulus BS.






Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:27 AM on j-body.org
J03Y wrote:

(tabs) wrote:

just because he doesnt support a second stimulus doesnt make his passing the first one any better.


while I agree, we do have to remember GWB started it with his send a check to every retard to go buy some uneeded material item stimulus BS.



he did start it, and it pretty much didnt work. so why keep trying a failed plan?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:31 AM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

J03Y wrote:

(tabs) wrote:

just because he doesnt support a second stimulus doesnt make his passing the first one any better.


while I agree, we do have to remember GWB started it with his send a check to every retard to go buy some uneeded material item stimulus BS.



he did start it, and it pretty much didnt work. so why keep trying a failed plan?



It certainly didn't work. They say the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over, while expecting a different outcome...........







Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:49 AM on j-body.org
J03Y wrote:

(tabs) wrote:

just because he doesnt support a second stimulus doesnt make his passing the first one any better.


while I agree, we do have to remember GWB started it with his send a check to every retard to go buy some uneeded material item stimulus BS.

im hardly a bush supporter, as you know, but i was trying to point out the fact that the first stimulus package was a bad enough idea, so just because he decided to not do it again is no reason to start applauding him for being fiscally responsible.




Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:50 AM on j-body.org
Quiklilcav wrote:



Lowering taxes causes a behaviour change, because the cost of operating a business drops, which means profitability will go up. This ecourages investment, because businesses and people can see a long term that there will be a payoff for their risk. This is the reason why tax cuts work, and government spending does not. The government can not spend enough to turn the economy around without taking it from the very people they're supposed to be helping. It is when they get out of the process entirely, and keep their hands out of the pockets of the private sector, that real job creation happens.


this is true. My dad runs his own furniture frame shop. yeah, its a small business (13 employees at one time, now down to 4 and 1 part time) another thing that hurst small business is fed min wage going up. again, education is the answer to higher paying jobs. or if you're in furniture, skill...lol...

if they would keep their hands outta everything....well, almost everything...uh....whats the purpose of the government again?...lol....

no seriously, I can see the good in taxes and I think people don't mind paying a REASONABLE tax. its just that when people are unemployed and strapped for money and sacrificing to make ends meet (I sacrifice squirrels) is when they get irritated about rate increases and tax increases and this increase and that increase...unemployment increase.... the simple fact is we need our jobs back in America. Not everyone likes being a tick sucking off the government...


-Red-

Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:41 PM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

J03Y wrote:

(tabs) wrote:

just because he doesnt support a second stimulus doesnt make his passing the first one any better.


while I agree, we do have to remember GWB started it with his send a check to every retard to go buy some uneeded material item stimulus BS.



he did start it, and it pretty much didnt work. so why keep trying a failed plan?

Obviously because Obama was going to do it better.[/sarcasm]

Here it is again. This is statistical proof of the difference between stimulus checks and tax reductions, for anyone who hasn't yet seen it.

J03Y wrote:

They say the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over, while expecting a different outcome...........

I see you read my first post in this thread.





Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:01 PM on j-body.org
doesn't these stimulus packages degrade the american dream? I mean whats the American dream? graduate high school...go to college...graduate with a degree in something useful....use your education and eventually start your own business? Refresh my memory, but didn't the first stimulus occur in the spring of 07?


-Red-
Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:09 PM on j-body.org
Red wrote:

doesn't these stimulus packages degrade the american dream? I mean whats the American dream? graduate high school...go to college...graduate with a degree in something useful....use your education and eventually start your own business?


life, liberty, pursuit of happiness..........






Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:09 PM on j-body.org
Red wrote:

Refresh my memory, but didn't the first stimulus occur in the spring of 07?

No, the first one was in 2001, and it failed. In 2003, marginal tax rates were reduced, and the country saw 4 years of growth, in spite of the fact that in 07 everyone was talking recession. Say something like that enough, and it becomes a reality, because you affect consumer confidence, which affects spending...You see where it goes.





Re: Did I hear Uncle Joe correctly? Another stimulus pkg?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:27 PM on j-body.org
oh...okay...thanks for clarifying that for me....I see....I see.....



and yeah....those three also....lol...


-Red-
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