The big "0" had run in with the Cambridge Police before. - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: The big "0" had run in with the Cambridge Police before.
Friday, August 14, 2009 2:15 AM on
Racism is racism - and pointing out that there may or may have not have been racism involved - since none of us was there (let alone in the officer's head) - doesn't make someone a racist.

I'll take this small quote from - Ex-Drug Officer Shows Users How to Avoid Arrest


"We would pull over cars that had college bumper stickers, because we knew college kids often partied with marijuana," Cooper says. "We would pull over 'Vietnam Vet' plates, because a lot of our vets developed a habit over there."

"I feel bad about it," he admits. "I would look for Mexicans. I would look for black people. It works."

Profiling(racial and otherwise) is real. It's not likely going away either.

I'd also point out that not all (and probably not even the majority of) profiling is actually racist.

1. Young people - respectable or not - do get extra grief from cops. I don't get nearly the same now that I'm older as what I got at nineteen. Even my 91 year old grandma notices and comments on the discrimination in this regard. It's all in the stereotype of "young troublemakers."

2. How you dress/look has a huge impact as well. Are cops giving your a hard time "because I'm (black/mexican/whatever)" or is it because you look like another hood rat/hippie/etc? People who are clean shaven aren't usually going to be viewed the same as someone with a massive goatee. Cops "should" not care what you dress/look like, but in reality they will judge you according to their perspective of your appearance. Its almost basic human nature to judge on appearance.

3. How you talk/behave. This is huge of course. Besides likely making judgments based on your speaking ability and accent(such as locality, education level, etc) - your attitude counts for a lot. It might give hints that you are nervous, "up to something," etc - and of course the level of courtesy/respect you give an officer will generally be returned to you(in most cases). If you are a dick, don't be surprised when the officer is one as well.

4. The appearance of your vehicle - sometimes will get your profiled. Have a nice looking, lowered car with tinted windows and huge rims? You MUST be a drug dealer... But having a car that looks like a beater can sometimes be just as bad(I speak from experience).

5. Where you are - I've had my friend(who looks like/is a giant dork - who is also white and drives a nice (stock appearance) car) get harassed and searched basically for being in the wrong part of town at night(he was actually just lost). Of course that meant that he was ABSOLUTELY there for hookers and/or crack. He was OBVIOUSLY LYING to the officer. My friend is also a very respectful individual BTW. But that meant nothing since he was in the wrong location(part of it "might" have been that he was a white guy in that wrong location).

6. Who (and how many) you are with - my Dodge Daytona was recently pulled over down town(with me, my brother, my cousin, and two friends on the way to a strip club) for "having a loud exhaust" - which is funny since it is NOTHING compared to 99% of any bike on the road(not to mention most mustangs/pickup trucks etc). I've been chatting with officers more than once while standing outside my vehicle (while running) and no officer has said a word about the noise level at all. But then again I wasn't in a car full of drunk guys at that point either(my brother wasn't drinking hence why he was driving). We where not hurting/endangering anyone - the reason he gave as to why I was pulled over was pure BS - it was really because he saw a car full of guys who he thought must be up to no good. And thoroughly harass us, he did.

7. Religious or sexual orientation - whether real or just perceived. Probably doesn't come up too often with police so much but with human interaction in general.

Profiling is wrong, but it most certainly DOES happen and it isn't ending any time soon. I do think though that many minorities misdiagnose why they where profiled and harassed. They might quickly write it off as racism - and some of the time this may be true - but more likely it may be something else entirely. But I also do have enough minority friends(as well as a half-Mexican cousin) to know better than to pretend that racism isn't still real and that they aren't disproportionately targeted.

FireCav98 wrote:

To say that this has been blown out of proportion is your opinion but for you to say that and NEVER been profiled then you're blinded from the world that we live in because this type of BS happens every day for us. We will never know Crowley's real intentions that day but as long as things like this...

Could Mr. Gates been overzealous in calling it racism? Maybe. But again, you don't know how it feels and I'm not just talking imagining yourself in someone else's shoes, either but actually living through these experiences. So of course, when being profiled for majority of his life he screams racism. Everyone seems to believe that this type @!#$ still exists. Those 2 videos proves it still exists and that was 2 years ago. I'm not saying Gates was right but you can't believe everything the police has to say either!

With what I explained above - you shouldn't assume that a white man doesn't understand what it means to be profiled - I think most of us have been at one time or another in some way. Usually the cause isn't racism(and believe it or not sometimes it is), but being profiled is being profiled despite the reason - and its no fun. Assuming that we can't understand being profiled because of our race(which is in itself racial profiling)... well you see why Wade thought you might be racist a bit yourself? I know that wasn't your intention but you see... you shouldn't make ANY judgment based off of someone being one race instead of another.


I'm not saying Gates was right but you can't believe everything the police has to say either!
Nope you can't always believe everything they say because they are humans - they come from the general population. You can't believe everything that any human says - including some of the "victims" of "police injustice." Cops are not infallible - but they aren't all out to "get you" either. They are just people(doing an almost thankless and very dangerous job BTW). With the exception of a few bad eggs, you should be extremely grateful to officers for all they do.

Wade Jarvis wrote:

bk3k wrote:

He was arrested for disorderly conduct technically - basically because he was apparently yelling obscenities at the officer. While that might qualify him as being guilty of being an unappreciative idiot(since the cop was only there to protect HIS HOUSE from a reported burglar), you call quite legally yell anything you want(short of death threats etc) at anyone you want(even an officer) in your own home. He was basically arrested for exercising his constitutionally guaranteed right to be a jackass. In the end, the cop absolutely did "act stupidly."

apparently you don't know as much about the law as you think you do but thanks for spreading bad information. Since I am soooo sick of that crap I am going to clear things up. If the comment you make to a police officer can in any way be considered a threat (and no not just a death threat or even a threat of bodily injury), if it can be considered harassment sexual or otherwise (all they have to do is tell you once to quit and if you make it again it is considered harassment), if your voice is so loud it disturbs the peace, if you begin to make a sense or try to incite others, or if you are being uncooperative/disorderly you can be arrested. Now how many of these did he do?

I pointed out something you apparently missed. I wasn't gonna make a post just for this, but I'm already posting, so might as well catch this too. Just what "bad information" did I spread? You can't threaten people - pretty much being short of that perhaps you apparently never heard of the all important part of "the law" called the US CONSTITUTION. The same document that guarantees your right to bare arms also guarantees your freedom of speech(Its the very first amendment you know) - even when being a jackass. You can't claim he was "disturbing the peace" nor "inciting others" from inside his own home. Well maybe you will anyways. Perhaps you should charge him with "mob action" too? (<--- I'm not serious)

As for being uncooperative - you have to obey an officer's orders except... not an unlawful order(such as one in violation of your constitutional rights). You'll probably still be arrested, but you will be right. Officers DO NOT have unlimited authority. An officers authority is derived from government authority - and government authority is specifically prohibited from denying your rights. I'm not commenting specifically on this case on this point - again I wasn't there. This is just a point in general. This isn't what he was charged with either. He was charged with "disorderly conduct" - namely conduct that disrupts order... what order? Was he disrupting the order of his household?

We don't live in a police state like N Korea. If you want to simply give an officer a piece of your mind - you have that right. Officers are civil servants - just like politicians. People (and you might be one of them) currently are giving politicians a piece of their mind at these "town hall meetings." Its the same thing - and it is a PROTECTED CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to do so. But no - you can't threaten(etc) the politicians either. Now if you applied the same standards to how people are talking to politicians as you do to how you think people can speak to officers, you would charge these people with disrupting the peace, disorderly conduct, etc. I think some of these people probably "deserve it" for some of their behavior at these things... BUT IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO DO SO!! I don't agree with these people but I fully support their right to as much.

Gates was being an ungrateful ass IMO - but that officer still had no right to arrest him. It sounds to me like Gates - being an ass - pissed off the officer so the officer simply arrested him in retribution. That is overstepping/misuse of authority. Whether he had all the facts or not at that point - I think Obama's comment was none-the-less right on the mark. Gates acted like an idiot, so the officer did the same.

Re: The big "0" had run in with the Cambridge Police before.
Friday, August 14, 2009 3:10 AM on
Wade Jarvis wrote:

the only teachable moment here is that many african americans will automatically defend another african american unconditionally as both you and Obama have defened Mr Gates.

FirCav98 I am calling you out. You ARE a racist!
I missed this irony initially. If I read that correctly, you are automatically assuming both of them are defending Gates because they are African American(I hate the term - I prefer AMERICAN). That alone is quasi-racist thinking. Perhaps you are defending the officer because you are both white? I have as much basis for my wild allegation as you have for yours. But the truth is that I don't know your real thoughts any better than you know theirs. If anything, Obama likely was quick to defend Gates because... Gates has been a long time friend of his. Did that obvious point miss you? Why would you automatically assume its a race thing? Do you think all black people "stick together" in some conspiracy against white people or what? Perhaps do you have some sort of "white man persecution" complex? Perhaps this (IMO probably the smartest thing ScottaWhite has ever said) belongs here -

ScottaWhite wrote:

The message of that speech was for, white, mexican etc.

White America has developed a sense of entitlement too. Oh we sit back poo-pooing alleged racism whenever we see it......grumbling about blacks on welfare and baby's mommas etc. Just look around.....just look at D.C. and the rampant ramped-up welfare state we are entering into. Poor ol whitey cant pay his mortgage.....cant get a job.....blame it on the wall street fatcats.....We ALL need to take responsibility for our own actions, choice of careers, investment choices etc. When our fat children just sit around playing xbox, rip the controller out of their hands and make them go outside and play, then MAKE them read books during the summer....a book club if you will.

I know I'm rambling, but over the last couple of years, I've begun to see whites as just like every other group....blaming the system + looking for a handout. Grow up America....our grandparents are ashamed.

I don't think it's directly fitting, except the theme. I think he's talking about people like you. The part I bolded - that is what a post-racial person looks like. But that's not how you sound, is it? I called FirCav98 out on it and I'm calling you too - I think you guys aren't trying to be racial intentionally and don't realize how you are ever being as such - but see how you are pretty much doing the same as he?

Re: The big "0" had run in with the Cambridge Police before.
Friday, August 14, 2009 4:53 AM on
bk3k i gotta agree with just about everything you said.

only part i would question would be that the police officer acted outside of his authority. i believe that the officers do have the right to arrest them in types of situations where the person is getting out of hand. beleive they have the right to detain someone for 24 hours without cause as well. i personally have no issues with this myself. so if that was the case the officer acted well within his authority.

as for the obama responce, it wasn't nessicarily racist but more just stupid, to say i dont know all the fact and then hand down your own judgment is just ignorant.!/Square1Photography
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