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Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 6:54 PM on j-body.org
Misinformation Peddler wrote:

Without debating the content, the bottom line is that the leaders of this country are shredding the Constitution in ways that should scare the living sh!t out of everyone: they are essentially subverting the process of passing law and doing whatever the f&%k they feel like.


There's the right wing extremism Quik pretends to be clueless about, and innocent of. One of perhaps hundreds, maybe thousands of instances on this site alone!







Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 6:59 PM on j-body.org
Weak. If you find it extreme to point out when the leaders in Congress and the Whitehouse are attempting to subvert the Constitution to push their agenda forward against the will of the majority of the people, you are either on their side, or you're simply more content pretending there is nothing wrong than actually paying attention.

And once again, you jump into a thread and make it about anything but the substance. Just trying to turn another thread into a pissing contest, are you?






Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 7:02 PM on j-body.org
It's not weak. It's the very example of right wing extremisem you've requested. I brought it here to your thread, for you made your request for it in a thread that was not yours. So, don't whine about thread 'content'. You're as guilty of it as anyone.

This quote from you agrees chapter and verse with any number of extreme-right websites. Although I am sure you can name them all and save me the time, I'll be happy to show this to be the case if you'd rather just run away.





Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 7:13 PM on j-body.org
.......Thread Destroyer....... wrote:

It's not weak. It's the very example of right wing extremisem you've requested. I brought it here to your thread, for you made your request for it in a thread that was not yours. So, don't whine about thread 'content'. You're as guilty of it as anyone.

This quote from you agrees chapter and verse with any number of extreme-right websites. Although I am sure you can name them all and save me the time, I'll be happy to show this to be the case if you'd rather just run away.
LOL. And here is proof of your inability to provide specific issues showing extremism. You label me and back it up by saying that I have the same position as someone else you label? Pure weakness on your part.

So explain to the rest of us what is extreme about my statement.

As for whining about thread content, when are you going to learn that pointing out your shortcomings is far from whining?







Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 7:33 PM on j-body.org
The problem with you is that you aren't even loyal to your own cause, for you feel that to be described by that cause is somehow an insult. That says more about how we both feel about your views than anything I could ever say to you. Not that you'd ever do more than lay there and cry about having your ass handed to you constantly.

You're 100% spot-on extreme right wing by every definable measure. Deny it if you must to somehow make your tortured soul feel better, but you're not fooling anyone. I suspect you're not even fooling yourself, no matter how hard you may try to convince us you have succeeded in doing so.

At least you have the right thread now. It's yours...Destroy It





Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 8:35 PM on j-body.org
I don't think anyone really cares what you think about them Bill. Folks might correct you if you make a false claim/ assumption about something they said, but don't confuse it with cherishing your opinion of them. After a while, it becomes apparent that you and few other like-minded individuals, simply enjoy stirring the pot.....not for the sake of fostering debate, but just to see the %$#@ bubble.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 8:43 PM on j-body.org
Quik's largest problem is that he's only got you, and a few other Mensa members, to watch his back. In other words, not much. So he's got to fight alone, and he doesn't appear to like being alone. It makes him jumpy. He's lost all sense of humor as of late. I wonder why....

Quik's views associate him with, and thus identify him as, extreme right. It is the most basic of logic, that one is a member of the group whose values and political positions one espouses. Why he'd insult them by insisting he isn't one of them is an odd deal indeed. What is so wrong with being adamantly right-wing that he'd not want to be called that? Why do you say he should not be called that? You both apparently idolize blatantly far-right people like Rush, but don't want to be identified with him? What's up with THAT?

Go on...debate and prove me wrong if you are so sure it's just a label or a "false claim or assumption". I don't know what you'd use to prove it wrong though. There are countless posts here that prove me right however.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, March 19, 2010 8:53 PM



Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 9:13 PM on j-body.org
"I don't think anyone really cares what you think about them Bill. Folks might correct you if you make a false claim/ assumption about something they said, but don't confuse it with cherishing your opinion of them. After a while, it becomes apparent that you and few other like-minded individuals, simply enjoy stirring the pot.....not for the sake of fostering debate, but just to see the %$#@ bubble.

.




“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Health Care reform discussion
Friday, March 19, 2010 9:16 PM on j-body.org
Then stop caring. Leave the thread.





Re: Health Care reform discussion
Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:41 PM on j-body.org
Hey Bill, still unable to back up your claims, huh?

Scott is right. I really don't give two sh!ts what you think of me. I find it amusing to keep giving you the opportunity to explain what makes me extreme, and you keep deflecting with generalizations and more empty claims.

And this:
Quote:

Not that you'd ever do more than lay there and cry about having your ass handed to you constantly.
Yup, you got me. I haven't been to town hall meetings (from which I posted pics before), I haven't corresponded via phone and email with my Senators (nor have I mentioned here the weak response I got from one of them). I'll never do anything but sit around here pointing out your idiocy.







Re: Health Care reform discussion
Saturday, March 20, 2010 5:47 PM on j-body.org
.......Thread Destroyer....... wrote:

Misinformation Peddler wrote:

Without debating the content, the bottom line is that the leaders of this country are shredding the Constitution in ways that should scare the living sh!t out of everyone: they are essentially subverting the process of passing law and doing whatever the f&%k they feel like.


There's the right wing extremism Quik pretends to be clueless about, and innocent of. One of perhaps hundreds, maybe thousands of instances on this site alone!


So its right winged for me to stand by my oath?

it gets covered under the 10th, and here in WI, badger care.... LOL

sucks.

you will die on it.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry



Re: Health Care reform discussion
Saturday, March 20, 2010 10:19 PM on j-body.org
No, YOUR brand of right wing extremism is the militant, "shoot-the mudda@!#$s becuz they ain't white citizens" attitude. It's just a different flavor than Quik's "I got the numbers to prove anything!" cluelessness. As I've said, the braintrust you guys represent as a group is rather shaky

One thinks he knows everything can be explained by 'statistics'.
The other thinks every fight is won with a gun.

Master and slave is what you are! But both serving a higher power who's got your number, and knows how to pull your strings.






Re: Health Care reform discussion
Saturday, March 20, 2010 10:42 PM on j-body.org
R.W.E. of the J.B.O. wrote:

Hey Bill, still unable to back up your claims, huh?

Scott is right. I really don't give two sh!ts what you think of me. I find it amusing to keep giving you the opportunity to explain what makes me extreme, and you keep deflecting with generalizations and more empty claims.

And this:
Quote:

Not that you'd ever do more than lay there and cry about having your ass handed to you constantly.
Yup, you got me. I haven't been to town hall meetings (from which I posted pics before), I haven't corresponded via phone and email with my Senators (nor have I mentioned here the weak response I got from one of them). I'll never do anything but sit around here pointing out your idiocy.

Every view you exhibit is extreme right. You've backed up my claims repeatedly; I need do no more.

I don't particularly care HOW many Senators you've written letters to when you're not crying about the asshurt I lay on you. However, if you'd provide those letters, I'm sure they will also show you to be extreme right. Why are you so embarrassed about it?






Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:56 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

Every view you exhibit is extreme right. You've backed up my claims repeatedly; I need do no more.
Bill, you can't do it, which is why you just keep repeating yourself. You can not show with any specificity what makes my view extreme, or why it is so. This is a glaring example of your empty mud-slinging. You constantly try to win the argument by simply insulting your opponent. My guess is you're also the type that in a face-to-face argument just starts talking louder, and over your opponent, because you can't win it if you let them speak.





Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:12 AM on j-body.org
back on topic?? and back to my question?



Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:27 AM on j-body.org
Thanks Jason. He can be a bit obsessive with his Pampers wedged so far up. With all the bad ink the Right keeps getting, it's no wonder he's in constant tears over it. Let's move past his need to see Blue Arial in print so much.

===================================

I'd think healthcare jobs and related business such as health insurance and Aflac are pretty secure. However, I can almost assure you that when the whip comes down, if the private sector is forced to lower insurance premiums and/or reimbursement from the government under the new system, the belt-tightening will be felt most at your level. The bosses will not miss such a gift-wrapped opportunity to justify lowering wages. Frankly, they'd be fools not to, not to mention bad businessmen as well.





Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:45 AM on j-body.org
First I would like to ask that only someone with experience with the US's government healthcare comments on my first point.

Do you think there is a reason so many people who are offered VA healthcare get private insurance instead? For the non veterans, it would be cheaper to keep the VA care.

Now for general consumption.
Earlier in the posts we compared cash for clunkers. My thoughts on this are to the complete waste involved. Sndsgood brought up alternative energy and someone said we save 5 million barrels a day. Not a big deal. We paid insane money for that. And whats worse is we didn't pay for it, the chinese did. Further more, about half of that taxpayer money went to foreign companies. Huuuge waste of money people. I did not want to pay $50 before interest to allow some schmuck to drive his new kia.

This government, right and left have been using deficit spending for quite some time. I forget which document I remember seeing this on, but it was the founders wish that we never have a public debt.
The fact is it reduces your personal freedom to be under a government that owes so much.

Most of this debt started to pile up with the new society (btw inner city people, its been 100 years can you please get yourselves out of poverty) And we keep adding privilege on the back of taxpayers. Look I know it feels good to say look at all the money we throw at this problem or that, but it doesn't help.

Government is the most inefficient at running anything. Unless you worked in the federal government you have no idea. It is disgusting and I never want the government in control of my life.

It is also not a *right* to have healthcare. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. nowhere does it say take care of your runny nose.

I agree with the need to tort reform, but i think the biggest way to lower prices is to get rid of all the red tape companies face. Allow them to compete across state lines and watch to see the osmosis in pricing occur.



The fact is this is immoral unconstitutional and corrupt. The drug companies are on board because this stupid reform already told drug companies the government will not be driving down drug company prices through volume purchasing. A private system would fight to save every penny. Government doesn't care not their money anyways.

BTW I called and emailed my representatives to tell them this as well. Good luck getting a response, cowards.



Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 3:21 PM on j-body.org
Mike Demo (Civic Eater) wrote:

First I would like to ask that only someone with experience with the US's government healthcare comments on my first point.
Do you think there is a reason so many people who are offered VA healthcare get private insurance instead? For the non veterans, it would be cheaper to keep the VA care.

I will speak on behalf of my gf who signed up and worked for the military. She has not had many complaints, as of now (knock on wood) the VA has been ok with her. When I was in the University, I had a student partner that worked there and she told me that it really was no different. With that being said, I know and recognize that the VA is not the best place and sadly, many times/case you are better off going to a veterinarian office. I only recognize this because it is the military, and with patriotism BS/front aside, point blank: politicians do not care for its soldiers. The only way a DC head would, is if only the politician had signed up & worked for the military. And because of this, the VA is a bad example.

Quote:

Now for general consumption.
Earlier in the posts we compared cash for clunkers. My thoughts on this are to the complete waste involved. Sndsgood brought up alternative energy and someone said we save 5 million barrels a day. Not a big deal. We paid insane money for that. And whats worse is we didn't pay for it, the chinese did. Further more, about half of that taxpayer money went to foreign companies. Huuuge waste of money people. I did not want to pay $50 before interest to allow some schmuck to drive his new kia.

Cash for clunkers, was not a waste and was successful when it came down for its main purpose. It served as catalyst to car sales, before C4C, sales was dismal; that was a fact. After it, sales have been climbing slowly up, and some factories have been adding shifts to meet demand. Personally, I rather send tax money to the group of folks where everyday people sees it, then to send it to folks that are so wealthy and do not spend a dime out of their pocket to further their business, or send it to countries only because they are our "ally," or spend in arsenal or warfare just so we can say "we are the best." When in fact, like Carter said, we have enough ammunition to blow humans out of existence. Those types of irresponsible spending, we ALL agree on (since nobody bitches on them), but when it comes to every folks spending, to some is like defecating on their 3lbs steak.

Second, alternative energy is what we need so OPEC does not-- or the very least, have us less by the balls. By them having us by the balls, screws with our security. How? Look how we run, everything revolves on oil, electricity, weaponry, transportation. The day OPEC says uh-uh no more, we/ the world will be epically screwed. Look how US past presidents for nearly 100 years have been kissing Saudi princess' ass. It is not that we love them, it is so that we're on their good side. We honor them as if they were the world leader... or maybe they are. I cringe when I hear "I don't care i'll leave my lights on and drive my 5mpg car/truck for 500 miles, that will show them hippies! " That's type of mentality is what sets up for this country's failure on security.

Third, do you know why it went to foreign companies (energy bill)? Let me clarify, it went to American companies and yes, it went to foreign manufactures. Why foreign? TECHNOLOGY IS NOT MADE HERE. When you have politicians giving incentives to build out side (started w/Nixon, and exploded w/Reagan), combined with low cost of manufacturing, this is the end result. Let me tell you, there was an update on this issue, and when DC found out about this, ABC exposed this first, and when it hit national, DC decided to stop funding those companies that has their factories outside.

Quote:

Most of this debt started to pile up with the new society (btw inner city people, its been 100 years can you please get yourselves out of poverty) And we keep adding privilege on the back of taxpayers. Look I know it feels good to say look at all the money we throw at this problem or that, but it doesn't help.
What you are talking about is dropping a bucket of water to raise the sea level.
Want to see where we spend the most? Military: our biggest socialized problem. Tax payers swallow the bill for military personal to eat, house, cloth, to buy billions dollars worth of weaponry, to use in useless war (well useful to a select few) that costs billions every week. That's where your mass spending begins. Why do you think Russia fell? It wasn't communisim, it was their irresponsible spending on arms in order to compete with us, (don't forget corruption that went with it). Now inorder to recoup some of that money, they sold it to our enemies, because they know in the black market they for go big money.
To blame on the poor is a pathetic attempt only because their voice is weak, and easy to do. Hey, it is no different in the animal kingdom, predators always goes for the easy prey to eat. You hardly see a lion go against a rhino, but you'll see it go against a gazelle. Humans, and in this case are no different.

Quote:

It is also not a *right* to have healthcare. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. nowhere does it say take care of your runny nose.

You are correct, it is defitnatly not a right. And it is not a right for us to provide education for you. Provide a security for you. Provide a road to drive on for you, Provide a fire protection for you. Provide clean water for you. Provide sanitary pick ups for you. Catch my drift?
To some, staying alive or removing an ailment is their "happiness." The problem here is that the majority thinks hospitals work like "Grey's Anatomy or Doogie Howser, or ER or House where you have 12 doctors attending one patient and get instant treatment as soon as you come in, then doctors goes and fu(ks each other (while thinking about their patient) and they come back and treat you like if you're buying a Rolls Royce.
That's in TV show world, this is reality. This also reminded me on Limbaugh when he cried foul on Micheal J. Fox about him "acting" when Fox pleaded for stem cell research. I guess when an issue hits closer to home, you'll understand.






THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:36 PM on j-body.org
Take Back the Republican Party wrote:

No, YOUR brand of right wing extremism is the militant, "shoot-the mudda@!#$s becuz they ain't white citizens" attitude. It's just a different flavor than Quik's "I got the numbers to prove anything!" cluelessness. As I've said, the braintrust you guys represent as a group is rather shaky


You are a dumb blind old man.

I tell you what that I'm anti "hojie" and it makes me a racist.

blind.

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry


Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:54 PM on j-body.org
You claim now to be NOT a racist? Let's get that on record. Tell me you're not a racist. My quotey box finger just tingles with the prospect of feeding you those words!





Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 5:31 PM on j-body.org
Goodwrench.
I am sad that in one thread for a hour we agreed on something (using deem and pass etc)
I see where it isnt a right that veterans get such things. In case you would like to know, most of the time I did no get what you speak of as far as education etc. I relate to your point about police and fire as not being a right. What we are considering here is not the same though. I know the social contract and how you have to give a little to get a little. Pardon me if my point isn't clear, I have been sick for a week and a half, govt healthcare be damned....

My point is it is not a right of the people to have a doctor on stand by, We first off cannot afford it and secondly where was it enumerated that we are supposed to get healthcare.

I personally think the VA is a great example of what is to come. You mentioned your gf is prior service, and bless her for that. I do not see how it is everyones right to healthcare though. Sure if you serves maybe they made an exception and promised to provide you *good* healthcare, but I have no reason to see why it should apply to everyone.

If you look anywhere that has govt healthcare it is a debacle.

I agree with your side about prior problems etc. My asst mgr Sarah has to fight for help to control her type 1 diabetes. The system is broken, but socializing the system will not fix the system. I have no doubt that there needs to be some work on healthcare, For years I went without because it was too high priced, but please dont tell me that this is te right way to do it.

Look at who is pushing this and tell me they mean what they say when they tell you why they are doing it. I know the system needs work, but when has the govt ever been the right way to fix anything.

What have they created that ever worked or came in under budget. Let the system deregulate and we will see things start to work themselves out.


As a county we have become too coddled as far as big brother govt goes. The power of our country is in our ability to adapt and succeed. Let the market fix the problem and 5 years from now we will look back and laugh at all of this.




Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 5:56 PM on j-body.org
^ thank you. that was very well put, and i agreed with everything.

if for nothing else, this health bill needs to die only so our nation doesn't succumb to anything ever done by michael moore.





Check out my build thread!

Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:04 PM on j-body.org
^ lol. Michael Moore, the liberals' very own Jabberer the Hut. Fool.





Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 7:55 PM on j-body.org
Mike Demo (Civic Eater) wrote:

Goodwrench.
I am sad that in one thread for a hour we agreed on something (using deem and pass etc)
I see where it isnt a right that veterans get such things. In case you would like to know, most of the time I did no get what you speak of as far as education etc.I relate to your point about police and fire as not being a right. What we are considering here is not the same though. I know the social contract and how you have to give a little to get a little. Pardon me if my point isn't clear, I have been sick for a week and a half, govt healthcare be damned....

So you are telling me you were home schooled or went to a private school in your K-12 years? You do not not drive the street where the government paved for you? And it is definitely the same, the difference here we are all accustomed to to everyday social programs as I mention before, while healthcare we are not. Why? The simple fact that there is already a health system, if you are in deep poverty, government will help with the bill hybrid system. Second the majority of the folks against this are indeed young, able bodied, with insurance provided by their employer so a typical citizen does not use the government help. Just because (you) don't use it, does not mean that this is new. Point is... knock on wood you're healthy now, but the day you fall like that guy I showed, I hope you're financially set, when your provider denies anymore coverage because you're depleting their profits.

Quote:

My point is it is not a right of the people to have a doctor on stand by, We first off cannot afford it and secondly where was it enumerated that we are supposed to get healthcare.

Looks like it slipped from you. I will paste again what I wrote:
You are correct, it is definitely not a right. And it is not a right for us to provide education for you. Provide a security for you. Provide a road to drive on for you, Provide a fire protection for you. Provide clean water for you. Provide sanitary pick ups for you. Catch my drift?
If we follow the same standard of nitpicking what is our "right" we would be living like a citizen of Congo or Haiti. Before we even touch on "the rights," we have to establish what is the role of government, and that is: stability... that's it. All those things you accept and take for granted in you everyday lives, government should not do for you, it is a service provided because (you) pay into it, not because it is "a right."
Quote:

I personally think the VA is a great example of what is to come. You mentioned your gf is prior service, and bless her for that. I do not see how it is everyones right to healthcare though. Sure if you serves maybe they made an exception and promised to provide you *good* healthcare, but I have no reason to see why it should apply to everyone.

Consider your self fortunate/healthy and thank god to not see the purpose of a better healthsystem. Second, my gf and like so many other of my friends hated every min and all saw lots of BS inside.
And first thing when you see BS is "to stand down." The moment you can not speak up, that's when you know you are up to no good. Personally, I respect a military employee that is vocal in their finding and gets "dishonorable discharge," then lower their head and accept mischief and get "honorable discharge." Sadly many suck it up for financial/future reasons.

Quote:

I agree with your side about prior problems etc. My asst mgr Sarah has to fight for help to control her type 1 diabetes. The system is broken, but socializing the system will not fix the system. I have no doubt that there needs to be some work on healthcare, For years I went without because it was too high priced, but please dont tell me that this is te right way to do it.

You have nothing to worry about, as there is no public option, just a expansion of the private insurance. This is why Dennis Kucenich (sp) is pissed about. lol

Quote:

Look at who is pushing this and tell me they mean what they say when they tell you why they are doing it. I know the system needs work, but when has the govt ever been the right way to fix anything. What have they created that ever worked or came in under budget. Let the system deregulate and we will see things start to work themselves out.
As a county we have become too coddled as far as big brother govt goes. The power of our country is in our ability to adapt and succeed. Let the market fix the problem and 5 years from now we will look back and laugh at all of this.

You give to much credit to the private sector. Let me put some more aspects that you take for granted. The car you drive, if it were not for regulations, your car will fold up at 10mph as some cost cutting would done in order to not implement safety. The meat you buy, if there were no regulations, your red meat would probably be infested with e-coli, or some form of bacteria as that company would do some cost cutting and not clean so thoroughly. The medicine you consume for your aches or symptoms, if it were not regulated, you'd probably grow a third testicle or probably be dead as the company would have spend money on research for safety. And these are just three example. Do you see where government is involved in order to keep you alive and safe?
Sure we can do the: "let the market run it's course philosophy" but when it involves life, sad to say, some prefer profits over safety, case in point-- Toyota today. A great example profits>safety is how the Chinese do business. When you get a chance to learn how they work with their products you'll think twice on de-regulation.



THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: Health Care reform discussion
Sunday, March 21, 2010 9:12 PM on j-body.org
Since they passed the bill on a 219-212 vote, and by the time most read this post it will have been signed by the President, we now have a massive increase in beurocracy in our healthcare system. Time will prove the fact that it will not bring down costs, and it will bring down the quality and availability of care over the long term. Goodwrench, you need to look into the procedures a little bit more. There will be a public option, and there will eventually (if this bill gets fully implemented) be a single-payer system in the USA. It will happen because they are going to force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions, which means people can go out and pay a premium, regardless of the fact that they are going to be getting more than they pay in. The money has to come from somewhere, which will be everyone elses premiums. This is simple actuarial math.

Also, watch over the coming weeks as the amendment bill dies in the Senate.







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