Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism - Page 5 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Sunday, December 13, 2009 6:10 PM on j-body.org
RuggedZ wrote:

if the gop was moving further to the right, i don't think we'd see near the massive spending from congress.

/thread.

I think more than anything the GOP is suffering from an image problem. You folks maintain it hasn't shifted further right over time, yet the problem may well be that many Perceive it has. Gosh knows that I can find hundreds of references to buttress this impression. I can find none to buttress your impression.

How to fix this injustice of perception then? If the party has shifted toward center while its most vocal cheerleaders have shifted right...a conundrum, no?





Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Sunday, December 13, 2009 6:13 PM on j-body.org
RuggedZ wrote:

Moderate Voice of the People wrote:

Can GOP Gubernatorial Candidates swing back from hard right?

Retirements push GOP to the right


neither of these are @!#$ facts, its all opinion. show some specific examples of how the GOP is so far to the right.

Hmm. Did you even read the link about retirements? That's not opinion...those are facts, as supplied by the lawmakers themselves.





Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Sunday, December 13, 2009 6:38 PM on j-body.org
Moderate Voice of the People wrote:

RuggedZ wrote:

Moderate Voice of the People wrote:

Can GOP Gubernatorial Candidates swing back from hard right?

Retirements push GOP to the right


neither of these are @!#$ facts, its all opinion. show some specific examples of how the GOP is so far to the right.

Hmm. Did you even read the link about retirements? That's not opinion...those are facts, as supplied by the lawmakers themselves.


of course i read it. the only fact in it was that 8 "moderate" republicans resigned. the rest was pure opinion about how it's bad for the party.





Check out my build thread!

Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:19 PM on j-body.org
And...the remaining Republicans were more hardcore right...Right?

Another shift to the right.

You ask for evidence, I bringy





Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:37 PM on j-body.org
Moderate Voice of the People wrote:

Moderate Voice of the People wrote:

So, you would tell me that all the far-right grandstanding that goes on these days, coming after the Bush II reign of terror about terror; all of this is NOT evidence of a shift further right over time, that it all actually means the party has shifted left? Huh?

Miss Ped, can you curtail the character assassination crusade long enough to address the above point?
LOL. I've posted plenty of clear arguments, along with statistics to support my points. You've repeated more rhetoric in this thread than anything, and when I ask a question, and re-ask it after you ignore it, you want to suggest that I'm the one ignoring something? Thoroughly amusing.

At any rate, you've posed an easy one, so here you go: The "reign of terror about terror" as you so eloquently exaggerate, has nothing to do with being right wing. We had a major attack on our own soil, and decided that we've had enough, and it was time to go after the terrorists, and the leaders who support them, and yeah, even a dictator who hadn't been 100% proven to have possession of WMDs (let's not take this thread off topic and have another "Bush lied" bitchfest), but that can hardly be called an act of right-wing extremism. The only real conservative action on Bush's part in his 8 years as leader was the 2003 tax cuts. Other than that, he spent money on many social programs, and paved the way for what we are seeing now. Now if you want to wrap the Patriot Act into that right-wing extremism, as it's the thing Bush bashers most love to use to call him a tyrant, that piece of legislation is hardly a conservative article. Once again, let's not turn this thread into a discussion about whether it was right or wrong, but if you examine it, you would be hard pressed to find many conservative principles there. Less individual freedoms and privacy in favor of the greater good? Sounds pretty left wing to me.

I'm still waiting for your list of specific GOP policies that are new and/or extreme.







Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:39 PM on j-body.org
Moderate Voice of the People wrote:

You ask for evidence, I bringy
Really? 8 "moderates" retiring is evidence of the GOP surrendering to extremism? This is side-splittingly funny right here.






Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Sunday, December 13, 2009 10:24 PM on j-body.org
Golly. Just showing a bit of right swing on that one. Sorry if I can't "nail" it with just one report, lol! I shall shop for my resources more discerningly next time.

Don't get me wrong about Bush. I voted for him, both times. But I'm talking about Perception. Over time, he soiled the brand. Image problem. Now the party was saddled with that damage, and a lot of it came from the GWOT, which was viewed by too many as a reach beyond the boundaries generally associated with the previously more benign USA. Not saying I viewed it that way, I was a proponent of all of it (the incursions into Iraq and Afghanistan, Patriot Act, NSA wiretaps, etc.), mind you...but I'm talking about how perceptions can outstrip reality in many cases.

So, maybe you are right, and the shift right is a figment of others' imagination. If so, you certainly have been the victim of a major smear campaign, for it's like ALL over everywhere.

But OK then...what to do about these sometimes-hysterical right extremists in print and web and TV and radio? These are the wild cards I'm confused about. I just can't decide if they are helping or hurting the Repub cause. They sure do make it SEEM like there's been a shift right...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, December 14, 2009 1:17 PM



Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Monday, December 14, 2009 9:24 AM on j-body.org
So ends the saga. A concession that the repub party hasn't actually shifted way right, but is actually a perception of some.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Monday, December 14, 2009 12:29 PM on j-body.org
Hrm. discussion > you
Take off the boxing gloves and TALK about the subject, perhaps
I can work with and discuss hypotheticals that I may not necessarily align myself with. Try it with me!

It doesn't always have to be about how many points get on the scoreboard





Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Monday, December 14, 2009 12:43 PM on j-body.org
It's always about the points on the scoeboard. Only play to win, and if you can't win, make it as difficult on your opponent as possible.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Monday, December 14, 2009 1:45 PM on j-body.org
lol. Pugilist!





Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Monday, December 14, 2009 4:37 PM on j-body.org
Moderate Voice of the People wrote:

So, maybe you are right, and the shift right is a figment of others' imagination. If so, you certainly have been the victim of a major smear campaign, for it's like ALL over everywhere.
That has been my point from the beginning. It's perception only because the media has repeated it enough times. However, this doesn't mean the answer is to soften and move your position, it means they need to do a better job of getting their message out without the distortion. Once again, I will point out that the last time they did this, it worked. It's not a "dated" strategy, it's a tried-and-true one. They just need to articulate their stance as a group. The majority of the public want conservatism as the founders of our country envisioned it, with true personal liberties, not as it's been perverted to (the neo-con, big covernment conservatism idiocy--aka the "me too" GOP).






Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Monday, December 14, 2009 7:01 PM on j-body.org
In the 31 times same sex marriage proposals have come before a state ballot measure, they have been defeated. The 4+ states that have it, have gotten it through their legislators, or court order. Even Kalifornia voted against it.

80% of people with health insurance, (whether its self-pay, or employer funded) like what they have.

Although a majority believe that the current healthcare system has flaws and needs work, most do not believe the government should take over and run it.

If explained, most people understand that a modest business tax structure, promotes job growth. When govt interferes, imposing wage increases, mandating health coverage, race/gender based hiring quotas, it stifles business growth.

A majority of Americans polled, do not want to change existing abortion laws. (this is a liberal win) However, I don't believe the majority of Americans know that Obama deep sixed the law that mandated babies that survive abortions, must be kept alive as much as possible. I honestly believe if people really knew what happens during an abortion, many, if not most would change to right to life.
Its utter butchery and barbaric.

On the flip side....

Average Joe doesn't like rich people, because they're rich and he's jealous. After all rich people are all greedy wall street fatcats that ruined the economy with their bonuses and insider trading. Therefore, if govt wants to slap extra taxes on rich dude, average Joe could care less, especially if he gets a "free" govt program or stimulus check out of the deal. In fact average Joe doesn't care how much the govt sticks it to the wealthy, until rich guy closes down the plant and lays off Joe.

At which point, Joe's unfavorable opinion of rich dude is reinforced.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:43 PM on j-body.org
ScottaWhite wrote:

It's always about the points on the scoeboard. Only play to win, and if you can't win, make it as difficult on your opponent as possible.





this is one of the biggest problems in goverment right here. if you cant win make it as difficult on your opponet as possible. it used to be about trying to come up with a plan that works for everybody, now its my side isnt in charge so im going to make it as hard on you as i possibly can.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:31 PM on j-body.org
^which isn't neccesarily wrong, when what your opponent is up to, is pure financial skullduggery on a national scale. Like today, Coburn fro Oklahoma, wanted to have a 72 hr waiting period to read over amendments, before voting on them. Baucus told him to f-off. So coburn used a seldom used senate rule to make the clerk read the entire amendment out loud...all 776 pages! Made my day! Might have been quicker to just let the 72 hour request go through, but Nooooooooooo. Now the clerk is reading a Harry potter sized piece of legislation out loud for the next week. I love this game.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:31 AM on j-body.org
ScottaWhite wrote:

^which isn't neccesarily wrong, when what your opponent is up to, is pure financial skullduggery on a national scale. Like today, Coburn fro Oklahoma, wanted to have a 72 hr waiting period to read over amendments, before voting on them. Baucus told him to f-off. So coburn used a seldom used senate rule to make the clerk read the entire amendment out loud...all 776 pages! Made my day! Might have been quicker to just let the 72 hour request go through, but Nooooooooooo. Now the clerk is reading a Harry potter sized piece of legislation out loud for the next week. I love this game.




its wrong as hell this is exactly why the goverment is so @!#$ up. if both sides worked towards a solution instead of just fighting each other they would get @!#$ accomplished and come up with some solutions. both sides do it and its @!#$ this country up.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:46 PM on j-body.org
Admit it. Nothing wrong with giving the senator three days to read the amendment. Not even forcing everyone to read it, just letting those who so desire, to do so. Betcha the read a thon rule gets removed soon


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Friday, December 18, 2009 5:55 AM on j-body.org
ScottaWhite wrote:

Admit it. Nothing wrong with giving the senator three days to read the amendment. Not even forcing everyone to read it, just letting those who so desire, to do so. Betcha the read a thon rule gets removed soon



no theres not but that plays into my whole point, its not just one side being hardheaded and trying to screw the other at all costs its both sides. if they would stop playing this "lets make it difficult as we can" and just sat down and started discussing things, letting people read the thing, come back sit down and work it out. then you would get some thigns done.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Friday, December 18, 2009 5:18 PM on j-body.org
Dems are fighting amongst themselves now.

Why keep up with this bill when most polls (Gallup, ramussen) show the modify of Americans don't like it.

"well we know what's good for you + though you don't want it, you'll thank us in the end."


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Monday, December 21, 2009 10:03 AM on j-body.org
they have sunk too much time and effort into it, obama has pushed for it since day one. if he doesnt get this to pass he has nothing to show for what he's done in office. he has pushed to hard to just say okay lets not do it.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Wednesday, December 23, 2009 4:47 PM on j-body.org
Just as another supporting point that the notion of the GOP being too extreme is off base, I thought I'd post the latest Rasmussen generic ballot poll. The Republicans are currently enjoying a steady lead that has risen to 8 points over the Democrats. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/generic_congressional_ballot

2010 will be the new 1994 unless something major changes in the political spectrum between now and then. With the massive push on the health care bill that the majority of the public does not want, not only are the Dems in Congress losing in a big way, but Obama's approval ratings are tanking further. He is now at a -18 approval index, with only a 44-46% total approval rating for the last two weeks. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll









Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:54 PM on j-body.org
Obama's ratings down? What we need is a good old fashioned domestic (aka whiteboy) terrorist act, or at least a sinister plot uncovered. Maybe an assasination attempt at the signing of something big, where he refuses to be ushered away until he signs it. Instant hero.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Wednesday, December 23, 2009 7:02 PM on j-body.org
Meh. More of the dependably presented rightwing rhetoric. "Polls", lol. "Polls" presented in a decidedly biased light, from a who-knows-how scientific cross-section of respondents. Is this the latest tactic, to present propaganda as "polls"?

Apparently the right has determined that the people they are trying (too hard!) to impress are stupid and/or under-informed. I think this insultory approach could backfire. It's not working on me, for one.

Show me one president that was ushered in on a platform of dizzy, euphoric change whose numbers didn't worsen in the first year. Then I can actually take some of this rightoric to heart. Until then, all one need do, as usual...is consider the source.





Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:19 AM on j-body.org
LOL. Bill, you seem to see bias everywhere except where it actually lies. Rasmussen and Gallup have been non-biased poll entities for decades. Rasmussen has actually done articles explaining how polls can be skewed, and how they ask there questions in such a way as to avoid skewing the numbers, to get a reasonably accurate account of the public mood with regard to any given subject. The fact is that six months ago the Democrats were ahead in the generic ballot polls, where they had been for years. Are you going to tell me that Rasmussen was showing their right-wing bias for all that time? The daily presidential tracking polls showed Obama with a double-digit positive index as late as March, and still in the positive as late as June. Again, where is the bias you claim?

As for the right determining that the people they are trying to impress are too stupid or uninformed, you're describing the left more than the right, and there is actually plenty of evidence of the majority of the public being actually uninformed. Various groups have done plenty of street interviews and exit polls proving that most people only know what the ads say, or what the hype is.

Bottom line is that the non-biased Rasmussen polls don't support your argument that the GOP is failing to gain support. They have proven themselves over the years to be very accurate. Eleven months from now, are you going to claim that the election results are biased?


As this will be the extent of my political debating for the next couple of days, I will simply wish everyone a
Merry Christmas. I hope anyone who is travelling, particularly in areas being hit with the major storm, stay safe.







Re: Right Makes Might? How the GOP is surrendering to extremism
Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:36 AM on j-body.org
Kee-rist. Yer blind. That Rasmussen site is plastered with rightieness...ads, links, U - NAME - IT.

I guess ya can't see what ya can't undertand. No shame in that...just a little embarrassment




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