Since I was born in 1946, the 1983 is wrong. Why I typed 1983 I do not know.
The cars, though correct at the time, are now wrong.
I currently drive a 2010 Camaro and a 1969 Corvair.
Since I am posting to answer a question, I will respond to the posting above yours.
I referred to Scott Settlemire, who is the GM exec in charge of GM's presence at car shows, as a GM employee. As far as I know, he continues as a GM employee, but perhaps you know something I do not know. Cheryl Pilcher has also been know to use the term, and when the 5th gen show car and a couple years later the actual car were introduced Ed Welbourn used the term.
But the J does not carry the cachet the F does so other than myself, I do not expect anyone to refer to the Sonic as a J car.
Somehow I can not help feel a little bit of tradition has been lost.
Unionman
Mystic02VA (GME Chat) wrote:John Smith wrote:the J Body is assembled at the Lake Orion., MI Orion Assembly Plant.
uhhhh the J-body was assembled at the Lordstown Ohio plant the entire production run from 1981-2005... o.O
The Gamma 2s are being built in Lake Orion... But the J never was...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, August 26, 2011 4:29 AM
Why is this so hard to understand man...the Sonic is part of the GAMMA 2 PLATFORM!! Meaning, it is NOT a j-body, it is a GAMMA 2. And THAT is straight from GM.
The J platform is discontinued and remains that way. Doesn't have anything to do with people not wanting or not being excited over the thought of bringing J's back...it has to do with the FACT that it is a Gamma 2, and not a J-body. This should be very simple to wrap your head around.
EVILution (KGM Godfather) wrote:Why is this so hard to understand man...the Sonic is part of the GAMMA 2 PLATFORM!! Meaning, it is NOT a j-body, it is a GAMMA 2. And THAT is straight from GM.
Lets take it a step farther.
The direct replacement for the J-car was the Delta platform Chevrolet Cobalt (and for a time, Pontiac G5). That was succeeded by the Delta II platform Chevrolet Cruze, which is currently in production. All of these platforms and cars share the fact that they are a COMPACT car platform.
The Chevrolet Sonic, built on the Gamma 2 platform is the successor to the Daewoo T200 platform Chevrolet Aveo. All of these platforms are a SUBCOMPACT car platform.
So, had GM wanted to revive the letter designation, they would have given that designation to the Chevrolet Cruze. But today the 4th digit of the VIN is internally completely irrelevant. Consider GM is now a global company, which it was not when OP "supposedly" worked at GM. Today there is no internal "code," there is only platform designation, which we have now beat that horse until it was dead.
But then, what would I know, I'm just Dave. I don't know anyone or anything going on at GM, right?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about
the former." - Albert Einstein
Dave wrote:But then, what would I know, I'm just Dave. I don't know anyone or anything going on at GM, right?
that is probly the best sig material i've seen in awhile.
GM's new designations are mostly based on Greek letters now (except trucks), the only letter platforms left are the Y (Corvette) and W (Impala). They don't necessarily have to match up to a certain type of vehicle, so even if it had the J designation for the Sonic, it's most likely not an homage to the Cavalier/Sunbird, it would be used because it's available. For example, my 1980 Sunbird is an H-body, and an 1986 LeSabre is also an H-body. They are fundamentally different vehicles, the Sunbird is a rear wheel drive subcompact, and the LeSabre is a front wheel drive full-size car, so the designation is meaningless.
oooh ... does your sunbird have the 5.0 in it?
Clearly I was over generalizing when I started this thread.
I believe I would have been more correct to say something like: The Chevy Sonic is GM's newest J Vehicle Line.
Hope this has a positive effect on any feathers that may have been ruffled.
Unionman
Dave, now you are testing my credulity.
Of course, from a point of view, since the GM 2012 vincard pdf is not out, I guess you are correct in that you are using the present tense. But what will happen when it does come out? Based on past practice, the 4th spot in the vin is used to identify the vehicle line. Of course, this could change with 2012 release. Until it is out, I do not know. And as you have so eloquently alluded to: what do I know?
John "The Unionman" Smith
It's 2011, GM doesn't use one letter platform names. That's what changed...
It may have J in the VIN, but that doesn't mean that it's a J Car or a J Vehicle line. Just like if my name has a Z in it, doesn't necessarily mean I own a Z24 either.
John Smith wrote:Clearly I was over generalizing when I started this thread.
No, you were just plain wrong. Let's recap...
John Smith wrote:It looks to me like the J-Body has returned to life.
John Smith wrote:Now, we have a new J-Body platform.
You started out by saying the J-Body was alive. It is not. It's dead.
John Smith wrote:I also admit the fourth letter refers to the VEHICLE LINE, and references to F-Body or J-Body etc. are terms of art.
This statement is just flat out wrong. The terms "F-Body" and "J-Body" refer to the PLATFORM the vehicle was built on. Both of those platforms are dead. The Y-Body platform is still alive.
So I decided to ask around regarding VIN identification. The current system uses characters 4-6 for platform identification. I must give you credit, you are right that the 4th character does indeed designate "vehicle line", however this has nothing to do with platform. In today's system, you can have two cars built on the same exact platform that carry different 4th digits. You also won't find the 4th character on its own, in the vin code list, the 4th and 5th are always grouped together (for Chevrolet passenger cars). Here's the list for the Sonic:
J A: Chevrolet Sonic LS (Automatic)
J B: Chevrolet Sonic LS (Manual)
J C: Chevrolet Sonic LT (Automatic)
J D: Chevrolet Sonic LT (Manual)
J E: Chevrolet Sonic LTZ (Automatic)
J F: Chevrolet Sonic LTZ (Manual)
J D: Chevrolet Sonic Lvl 1 (Non US, Non Canada)
J J: Chevrolet Sonic Lvl 2 (Non US, Non Canada)
J M: Chevrolet Sonic Lvl 3 (Non US, Non Canada)
So the bottom line - you are wrong about the J-body being alive. You are right that the letter "J" has been reused as a platform designation, 7 years later, for a different car of a different class on a different platform. But who cares? GM only uses letters in the 4th spot, even though it is designated as alphanumeric, and there are only 26 letters in the alphabet. So letters will be reused again and again. It is completely meaningless to anyone on this site.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about
the former." - Albert Einstein
@Mystic02VA
Naw, just has the 2.5l Iron Duke/auto. 80hp lol Eventually I'll get a 3.8 in it but I've been trying to so it for years, just keeps getting put on the back burner. I just might change it to a Saginaw 4 speed and call it a day
We just got a Sonic in at work yesterday. It's an Aveo. It's just a slightly changed Aveo. Walking up to it, it looked no different then an Aveo. The interior is better built then an Aveo, and the quality doesn't seem as crappy. However, it is a re-designed Aveo.
Dave: Thank you for proving my revised thesis although I note the adroit use of verbal legerdemain in an attempt to refute it.
Exodus: If the Sonic is nothing more than a revised Aveo than one would think the name Aveo would be retained. Oh, it has been retained outside of the North American market. Gee whiz, the things one can learn.
I thank those replies that were responsive to the original question, as each responsive reply helped me focus my thinking.
Until next week: Unionman
John Smith wrote:Since I was born in 1946, the 1983 is wrong. Why I typed 1983 I do not know.
The cars, though correct at the time, are now wrong.
I currently drive a 2010 Camaro and a 1969 Corvair.
Since I am posting to answer a question, I will respond to the posting above yours.
I referred to Scott Settlemire, who is the GM exec in charge of GM's presence at car shows, as a GM employee. As far as I know, he continues as a GM employee, but perhaps you know something I do not know. Cheryl Pilcher has also been know to use the term, and when the 5th gen show car and a couple years later the actual car were introduced Ed Welbourn used the term.
But the J does not carry the cachet the F does so other than myself, I do not expect anyone to refer to the Sonic as a J car.
Somehow I can not help feel a little bit of tradition has been lost.
Unionman
Go to other cars forum post pics of the Corvair and then never return to this thread.
Unionman... sounds like all the unionized employees that work for me, simply trying to make life difficult while collecting a hell of a paycheck for doing sweet f*** all.
Here is the Corvair:
I will check back later to see if this worked.
Unionman
<div style="width:480px;text-align:right;"><embed width="480" height="360" src="http://static.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf" flashvars="rssFeed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeed1113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk513%2FJohnSmithL49%2Ffeed.rss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" /><a href="http://photobucket.com/redirect/album?showShareLB=1" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_geturs.gif" style="border:none;" /></a><a href="http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/JohnSmithL49/" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_viewall.gif" style="border:none;" /></a></div>
This should be 2 views of the Corvair
Unionman
OK. It is clear I do not know how to get the photos from the Photobucket album to here. Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. I will check back in a little while to see how things are going.
Unionman
i dont know why your so obsessed with this being a j-body.
copy the photo info that has the [IMG] in it. One photo at a time.
Hope this works. If it does, many thank yous.
Unionman
Yea! My first time posting a picture.
In answer to a previous question, it is not "j-body" but the synchronicity of Chevrolet changing the vehicle line designation from T to J. Away from N.A. the car is stilled known as the Aveo, but with the new vehicle line designation. Hope that answers that question.
The Corvair has reproduction aluminum alloy wheels based on the after market wheels sold by John Fitch back in the sixties.
Unionman
