New Engine - Second Generation Forum

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New Engine
Sunday, March 27, 2005 12:22 PM
Hey lady and gentlemen,

After talking back and forth with my mechanic friend, who by the way, has a shop like literally not even a qtr. mile down the road, we found something that caught both our attention...

Not only am I deciding I'm going V6, but the engine we found is a V6 turbo set-up in amazing condition with only 26,000 miles on it, which pushes roughly 350ish HP, not to mention it's local, about 200 miles from me where my friend's brother lives... who will haul it in on his truck for me leaving shipping charges at a fine number of $0. It's out of a 94 Grand Am.

So, I know what you're thinking, "hey arch, you're definitely gonna have to get a new transmission with that set-up!" Well, you're damn right I will. Just so happens me and my friend can most likely talk the guy out of it along with the engine, at no extra cost. This is the original tranny that was with the engine to begin with that also only has 26,000 miles and is a 4 speed automatic. So, now you're thinking, "alright arch, you said it was such a great deal... just how much is all this gonna cost you? Well, what was quoted was $1600. Complete set-up, low miles, with tranny (most likely) and boost switches. I think I'm gonna get it.



Originality and Creativity surpasses Popularity


Re: New Engine
Sunday, March 27, 2005 12:59 PM
not bad at all. 350HP in a Sunbird would be mint


http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/682845/ <=== my '91 Sunbird LE 2.0 4cyl
Re: New Engine
Sunday, March 27, 2005 1:16 PM
Except for the auto tranny: eeeeew... But congrats on finding a sweet engine.
Re: New Engine
Sunday, March 27, 2005 2:00 PM
Sweet deal man, definatly pick that up. Those are extremely rare, I guess it was a good thing your morot blew up or you wouldnt be looking right now. This way you get the best of both worlds v6 and turbo
Glad to see your luck turned around for you, well actually you ever had any bad luck......all thsi was just leading up to you finding your turbo 3.1
Good luck on the swap, keep us updated.




Re: New Engine
Sunday, March 27, 2005 2:02 PM
arch nice find man
but i think you would have more fun with a 5 speed
so what about fitment issues it gona fit easy
and will you have it done in time for cornerstone (if you are going)


Re: New Engine
Sunday, March 27, 2005 3:04 PM
I don't know that this exact swap has been done... if so let me know.

I know the automatic tranny isn't so exciting, but it's gonna save me from having to find one that'll match up with the engine. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to drop a 5 speed in with it, but this way I don't even have to seperate the tranny from the engine... all I have to do it drop them in together.

either way, I just got word it's offcially mine, I own it. My buddy is gonna help with a few cash advances since he's just as excited to drop it in as I am. I'm gonna pay him back. This way, I get the engine and can drop it in sooner than later. He's gonna go help them pull it out next saturday so that he can see exactly how it comes out to reverse it right back in. I can't wait now, I'm excited to get my hands on it. Auto or stick... this baby is gonna purr. I think I'll find a "Sleeper" decal to slap on the window just to leave it that less predictable... there will be many a civic and mustang to smoke and leave wondering what happened to them. Not to mention how lovely it'll be to show.

So, as you said tyrin... I'm getting more than I originally barganed for. I had no intention of going V6-turbo. Nothing in life ever falls into my lap, but after I have this baby in, I'll change that ratio. It's gonna set me back a little while, but after it's done and over with... the swap will be finished, the biggest mod on my list.

it's gonna fit... and I'm using the motor mounts from it as well. it'll be snug, but not as tight as a 3400 or so. point being I won't have too many problems come up with fitment. If things go as planned, I'll have the old engine/trans out and the new engine/trans in, no later than 2 weeks tops. I'm gonna try not to get too overly excited.



Originality and Creativity surpasses Popularity

Re: New Engine
Sunday, March 27, 2005 3:13 PM
obviosly this is a custom built setup. is it a 3100, or a 3.1l. grand ams had 3100 in them in 94. does it have a 3 or 4 speed auto??? if it has a 4 speed auto, you are going to have some serious problems getting it to work. if its a non electronic 4 speed (440t4) you will need different axles, at minimum. if its an electronic 4t60e trans, you are going to need to run the wiring harness and ecm from this car as well, as the tranny will be stuck in 2nd gear without the ecm. there also is the fitment issues with this tranny in a j-body. you may be better off to do your 5 speed swap, it would be a hell of a lot easier if you have the 4 speed tranny.





Re: New Engine
Sunday, March 27, 2005 6:11 PM
it is custom built and the tranny is 4 speed... the guy has $6000 sunk into it from what I believe. And it's mine now. 3100, 3.1L V6-turbo in fact. the tranny, it's non-electronic and I'm gettin new joints no matter what. and lockers. it's complete. I have a guy who has a bunch of diagnostic machines and computer testing n such and he's gonna reprogram my chip so it'll know it's not running with a 4 cylender anymore. I promise fitment won't be a problem, I'll gladly swallow my pride and admit wrong if there is.

You guys are gonna love this thing when it's in, I guarantee it. oh, and he just so happened to have a complete nitrous system lying around in his shop aging away so he wants to run it in my j. I'll be able to kick that nitrous in up to about 2700RPMs and kill it, let my turbo kick in and punch it and be at the line before their race is halfway over. I can't wait to see the look on unexpecting faces...

Mitch, if all things go as planned... I will try to fit Cornerstone in my schedule. I should have this swap done in 2 weeks, when is it again? one post left for march.



Originality and Creativity surpasses Popularity

soon to be V6-Turbo, purr kitten purr!
Re: New Engine
Monday, March 28, 2005 4:28 PM
Did you say youyr going to try and run the mototr off the wiring in the car? Dont, you should use the wiring from the car you got the motor from. its designed to accept boost your 2.0 ECM isnt. Plus the 3.1 has diffrent sensors and crap to worry about, or at least get the computer from the grand am and use it to run the motor you pretty much need it to run the motor properly.
Sharkey- thsi is a factory turbo, its a 3.1 and they came factory in grand ams for two years but not with a 4 speed trans.
Thats awesome news Arch now you got me all ecited, lol I cant wait to see it done




Re: New Engine
Monday, March 28, 2005 5:26 PM
so, what kind of a build does this thing have to put out above 300 horse? it must have pretty low compression, tons of boost, and killer heads. let us know, it would be a good motor to build one after
Re: New Engine
Monday, March 28, 2005 6:54 PM
boost must have Low Compression if you want it to last... or else your gonna be blowing gaskets, walking your crank, and destroying pistons left and right.

But being as this is a factory boost set-up, it should be capable of up to 12-16psi Intercooled. maybe more. not to much on the 3.1 T's but i may have to start looking into them. seems like the new thing to do.

3100/3400/3800 boost= one happy driver
One happy driver= really p/o'd honda drivers
Really p/o'd honda driver= really shocked crowds


...


Re: New Engine
Monday, March 28, 2005 7:15 PM
hmmm, as far as i have ever read, the only turbo v6 fwd gm ever made was a 89/90 3.1l turbo in the TGP gramd prix. they were mated to a 440t4 (4t60) 4 speed transmission. also the only grand am to get a turbo was in the late 80s, it was the 2.0l turbo just like in the sunbird. however, if im wrong, please correct me, and have facts to back it up.

the 4 speed shouldnt be that hard of a swap. you just need to be 100% sure its not electronic. the best way to check is see if it has a throttle cable going from the throttle body to the trans, just like on the 3 speed. if its no there, then you have an electronic 4t60e. im not doubting you here, but im just trying to figure out why someone would change the factory 4t60e to go with the outdated 440t4.



Re: New Engine
Monday, March 28, 2005 8:22 PM
I'm just saying that it must be an extreme set-up, I totally understand the compression and boost deal. I just want some facts on this horsepower monster.
Re: New Engine
Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:30 AM
Why would you even consider useing the 4speed auto trans, Just get a 5 speed out of any V6 cavalier. 350hp? the stock 3.1 turbo only did like 220hp at the most.
You'll need to get the ECM out of a turbo grand prix to run it, or run a V6 stock cav ecm with a rrfpr. I didn't read your post real good but i didn't see you mention what you are going to do about the turbo manifold (Modification will be required to use the stock manifold in the Jbody, the trans mount gets in the way.)
Good luck!



Re: New Engine
Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:22 PM
Sorry sharkey, I got grand prix and grand am confused I meant the motor came factory in grand prix's and thats what I thought arch was saying he had.
so yeah your right, that must be custom. I bet someone just dropped the motor from the turbo grand prix into the grand am which explains the 4 speed they took with it for the swap, And why its an older trans (non electronic) I dont know for sure but I dont think GM made the electronic transmissions in 89-90 when that motor was in the grand prix.




Re: New Engine
Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:26 PM
Arch, can you get the vin form the grand am? Whats the tenth digit?
The turbo 3.1 was V, the NA 3.1 is T, and there are two diffrent types of the quad four A and D and then the 2.0 turbo also came in the Grand am which is M.
I think thats all of them.




Re: New Engine
Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:23 PM
the 10th digit is the year, the 8th is the engine code.

gm phased the electronic 4t60e in late 91/ early 92, and by mid 93, all gm fwd 4 speeds were electronic.



Re: New Engine
Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:33 AM
Yeah, I meant eight didgit, man am I ever out of it this week. I should start tripple checking everything I say, lol thanks sharkey.
And I forgot U is the 2.5 OHV, and there was a 3.3 v6 that came in the gran am as well but I forget the vin code for it.





Re: New Engine
Friday, April 01, 2005 6:51 AM
Finally I got my posts back.... Yes, so it's clear, the V-6 turbo is originally out of a Grand Prix... the guy sank it into his grand am and not long after that got slammed in the rear screwing all sort of thing to pieces. Yes, this engine is a rare one and GM only made it in the 89 and 90 model GTP's just before phasing it out because it was more power than the people who bought it, could handle, and phasing in the electronic tranny. I haven't even seen it yet, (will this coming monday) but know that this guy isn't screwin me... seen previous engines he's sold. It's a custom set-up. Take that Grand Prix V-6 turbo and sink $6000 into it... and then I'm gonna set up a double shot nitrous system with it (which is free, all I have to do is fill the bottle). I'm gonna have one bad bird... I kid you not. we're gonna test the nitrous out with a few pounds after the engine is dropped in and see how much it's gonna pull to the right. But, we're also installing a locker on the wheels to bring out the power there as well.

So, take all of THAT and throw on my new $400 KYB/Eibach suspension for a hot ass ride and handling. Do you know if a swap quite like this has been done or not? I could be the first one? Just found out yesterday that my hood got stuck at the border, but cleared it up and should be getting it in the next three days or so. ago. and I'm gonna have to get all my body work to flowin, which includes the hood and then I can align, sand, completely prime and paint the damn thing after the engine work.

I also got word that the guy decided to just let me have the entire car for the same price cause there'd be nothing he could do with it without the engine and tranny. So, I now have all the donar parts and interior upgrades I can stand. Yes, I'm using the ECM and wiring harness from the same car as well. Monday, I'm going to see just how bad off the exhaust is, if it's minor I might repair and swap on that as well. and I'll be using what I can from the GA to upgrade interior and whatever else that suites me. I got me a donar car. sorry if anyone got skeptical.

steng, I know the boost is good at least up to 12psi on this thing, it's a Garrett t25 and the stock numbers are like 210hp @93ish-mph, 225 ft-lbs tq @2100rpms, low 15/high 14's on the 1/4 @ 90mph and 0-60 in 7seconds. And this thing isn't stock. I've also picked up a few facts about the engine actually being a 500hp potential pusher, though I'm not gonna see those numbers, lol.


Originality and Creativity surpasses Popularity

Re: New Engine
Friday, April 01, 2005 7:07 AM
i meant to put 210hp @ 5200rpms not 93ish- mph, typo. I don't wanna push this thing, not just yet anyway.



Originality and Creativity surpasses Popularity

Re: New Engine
Saturday, April 02, 2005 3:33 PM
You got any other plans for making it faster? big T-3 turbo or something? I saw one guy who put camaro 3.4 intake manifold on his turbo 3.1 and it looked a ton better than the 3.1 intake and I'm not sure on the flow but I would guess its better, if nothing else do it for the look I'll see if I can find some pics.





Re: New Engine
Saturday, April 02, 2005 3:37 PM
Found one
<img src=http://turboz24.com/Pics/Current_Engine_29.JPG>
His website is <a href=http://ww.turboz24.com>here</a> its got lots of good info, I've read through everything over there, lol
btw: those are fiero 2.8 valve covers, if you were wondering.




Re: New Engine
Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:08 PM
those fiero 2.8l valve covers are on 2.8l fiero heads. that is curtis walkers motor. he is using cast iron heads on his motor.



Re: New Engine
Sunday, April 03, 2005 7:43 AM
Mr.Efficiency (Tyrin) wrote:You got any other plans for making it faster? big T-3 turbo or something? I saw one guy who put camaro 3.4 intake manifold on his turbo 3.1 and it looked a ton better than the 3.1 intake and I'm not sure on the flow but I would guess its better, if nothing else do it for the look I'll see if I can find some pics.


faster? well I guess you could say I have an ace up my sleeve that I haven't mentioned. not to mention it's already customized and the nitrous will push me over 400hp maybe even to about 425ish if I really wanted to push it. I just didnt' want to oversell it, I figured everyone would be wow'd enough by 350hp. so faster? I don't think I need to go any faster... for now. yeah, that fiero intake is pretty clean looking but the 3.1 isn't all so ugly.



Originality and Creativity surpasses Popularity

Re: New Engine
Sunday, April 03, 2005 9:55 AM
Thats a camaro intake, the valve covers are fiero. Sharkey, will the fiero valve covers not fit on aluminum heads?
arch, hows the motor comming do you got the old one out yet? when do you think you'll have it in by? We need pics when your done




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