Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!! - Second Generation Forum

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Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:24 PM
That's right, a Daewoo engine! For those of you who don't know, a few of us 1.8/2.0 OHC guys were playing with the idea of a DOHC swap. Now, I personally have done some research on it, and came up with the 2.0 16V DOHC engines used in the UK/Scotland. And they will work, but shipping is killer and parts are hard to come by. So, after even more extensive research, I found out that the Daewoo 2.0 and 2.2L engines used the same exact block and the sunbird OHC's do. So, as of right now, I have just purchased a 2.2L 16V DOHC Daewo Leganza engine with plans to turbocharge it. The Daewoo blocks are just ike the sunbird blocks except that they have extra ribbing cast into the sides of the block, the oil pan is cast aluminum, and the cranksfat has it's own main stud girdle built right in. I am in the disassembly phase right now, but I took some pics so you can see the similarities. Let's see if they load...

This pic is of the whole complete engine...


This one here is a top view of the cylinder head with the camshafts...


Check out this crank pulley and oil filter. If you own a 2.0L sunbird then this should look really familiar. And yes, this is a pic of the daewoo engine....


And last up is a pic of the whole timing belt setup. Like I said before, this should look familiar.....


With this lower end properly set up for 25-27 PSI, I'm hoping to get around 400-420 HP. Around town driving I will only run the boost at about 12-15 PSI which should give me roughly 300-320 HP on the motor. Don't believe me??? Look at this.....

This guy is Jeff. He has put a 2.0 Daewoo top end on his sunbird/grand am motor and is running 15 PSI. I'm telling you, this is the engine swap to be doing!!! For all of you guys that want to be *different* here is a swap that is practically a bolt in deal.

http://www.geocities.com/pontiacjeff/DOHCswap1.html



Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!

2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!

Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:27 PM
awesome!! we need more guys like you, good luck!



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:35 PM
Damn thumbnails. Ok, let me try this for the pics...













Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!

2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:54 PM
*Watching this topic with eager anticipation*

So do you have to find and swap in the whole engine, or can you use the Sunbird block? Can you use a Cav 2.2 block?
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Saturday, June 11, 2005 10:03 PM
Talk about innovation man, kickass job! It sounds like a good alternative to the 3400.
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 4:46 AM
Isuzu also uses the same engine in some of their 4X4 vehicles. It should be an interesting swap. Locally, Daewoo and Isuzu engines cost more than Ecotec engines and are less common, so that seemed like the path to follow.

Are you planning to use the Sunbird turbo ECM? If so, you'll probably need to work out an ignition solution. There's no distributor on the Daewoo engine, which is what the Sunbird code expects. Jeff's answer was to fabricate a custom mounting for a distributor, which is fine if you can do it. GM's DIS is more reliable, is not affected by timing belt jumping, and will work with Sunbird code after a few small changes in the chip. Unfortunately, the Daewoo engine doesn't have GM DIS.

Should be a fun car when it's done.
-->Slow
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 8:47 AM
Wraith: You can use the sunbird block if you wish. You just need to make sure that you get ALL the timing belt accessories to run the setup. Remember, the Daewoo block IS a sunbird block so it all bolts up the same. Unfortunately, the 2.0 and 2.2 OHV blocks will not work because they use a TIMING CHAIN for an overhead valve setup. You can't swap out the blocks, it just won't work.

slowloej: Yes, the Isuzu Amigo/Rodeo and the Hyundais also use this motor so the parts are out there. As far as engine management goes, I do have an ECM from a turbo sunbird, but it is for a 5 speed and my car is an auto. I'm not sure if that will interfere with the application of the TCC for converter lockup, but I'm pretty sure that it won't work. Without a custom a distributor setup, the ECM won't read like you said. I think that what I will do is use my factory 94 sunbird MPFI harness, and just hook up the wiring to the sensors on the woo motor and have the old OBD I setup run it. Then, I will need to take both the 94 MPFI ECM and the sunbird Turbo ECM and have the prom information mixed onto a new prom so that I will basically have the MPFI prom(to keep the DIS and TCC operation) and then add the turbo values so that the ECM can compensate for fuel and igntion timing under boost Hopefully, this can be done. Otherwise, I will end up running a stondalone engine management. And the one I will use will be the Electromotive TEC-3 because it is designed to use all GM sensors and is tuneable.



Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!

2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:51 AM
Good to see another doing the DOHC swap! Good luck with it. I'd like to get my hands on one of the cosworth engines myself.



95 Cobra
Check out my site
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 1:02 PM
Labora: The main difference between the Cosworth engine and the Daewoo are in the cylinder head. The Cosworth head is made by CosCast???? and had a slightly different configuration that allowed better airflow(but not by a huge amount) The UK 16V DOHC motors in the C20LE/LET/NE had a problem with coolant seeping through the head due to a porous casting, and were being replaced with the *updated* Coscast units. As you are aware, the Cosworth heads were only found on the UK cars, and you are looking at spending so much money on them that the Daewoo head becomes the better alternative in the long run, at least with a turbo or other power adder. If you are only going to run N/A, then the Cosworth head would be a better choice. Once I get some more time I will rip into the shortblock. Then I can take some pictures of the block, crank, and rods so that you can see them and compare them to the sunbird counterparts.



Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!

2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 2:07 PM
hope this works out for ya, keep us updated I'd thought about doing that setup when I was still hooking up my bird


<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 2:11 PM
I'm planning on the same swap with the head and timming acessories out of an amigo/rodeo and using the 2.0 turbo wiring, but mine wont be done for a while, and I've come to the same estimate, I think it will be up around 400hp turbo charged

Quote:

slowolej said: GM's DIS is more reliable, is not affected by timing belt jumping, and will work with Sunbird code after a few small changes in the chip. Unfortunately, the Daewoo engine doesn't have GM DIS.


slowolej: Do you mean the calibration you gave me earlier wont work for running DIS on the turbo wiring/ecm?





Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 3:41 PM
Paul Moore wrote:

Cosworth heads were only found on the UK cars, and you are looking at spending so much money on them that the Daewoo head becomes the better alternative in the long run, at least with a turbo or other power adder.


Your right but in the end it just isn't as cool to pop the hood and see a daewoo motor vs. cossie motor. Either way it is way better then stock thou.



95 Cobra
Check out my site
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 5:13 PM
the valve cover on the rodeos look just like the vauxhall and opel versions, so I'm just going to hop on ebay and grab a vauxhall valve cover insert, there going pretty cheap




Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Sunday, June 12, 2005 7:55 PM
Quote:

I will need to take both the 94 MPFI ECM and the sunbird Turbo ECM and have the prom information mixed onto a new prom so that I will basically have the MPFI prom(to keep the DIS and TCC operation) and then add the turbo values so that the ECM can compensate for fuel and igntion timing under boost Hopefully, this can be done.


lol... slow down there, grasshopper. Sorry, but what you said is kind of funny. It's the mechanical equivalent of "I'll just bring a pair of quad 4 heads and my 350 chevy to the machine shop so they can bolt the 4 valve per cylinder heads on the 350 block." I guess the devil is in the details.

What you need is to have your manual trans turbo bird chip replaced by an auto trans chip, which is no more difficult than burning a cd. The GM chip is eraseable. You just remove the sticker from the chip to expose the quartz window, and shine an ultraviolet light of the correct frequency in the window for a couple of minutes and it's erased. Then you plug the chip in a chip burner and burn new code into it. You just have to have or know someone who has the equipment.

The ignition signal, not the wires that carry it, is what matters. The GM system is completely different from the 'Woo system. The GM ignition module detemines which coil to fire first based on a sequence of 6 evenly spaced notches and one unevenly spaced "synch" notch machined into a ring in the crankshaft. The module sends signals to the ecm which are exactly the same as distributor signals but at a slightly different time. When the ecm wants to fire a spark plug, it just says "fire!" to the module and the module decides which coil to fire. Running GM DIS on a distributor code is just a matter of adjusting when the ecm thinks the signals are coming in.

The 'Woo system (according to Alldata) sends a signal directly from the crank sensor to the computer. There's no ignition module involved. The 'Woo crankshaft does not have the same number of notches, nor does it have a "synch" notch to indicate which pair of cylinders is at TDC. Instead, the 'Woo computer relies on a cam position sensor to indicate which cylinder is at TDC. The 'Woo computer also makes the decision as to which coil to fire. The GM ecm's used in the '80s and early 90's do not have the ability to control a coil directly.

I wonder if a DIS 2.0 crank can be used in the Daewoo block? Maybe machine a hole for the 'bird crank sensor in the block (or pan) and use the GM DIS system?

Tyrin, I'm fairly certain I gave you what's needed to use the turbo 'bird code with the Pontiac 2.0 mpfi DIS. If it's not working, lmk and I'll help ya figure it out.

-->Slow
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Monday, June 13, 2005 3:50 AM
slowolej: It would be kick ass if I could take my 350 to the machine shop and have them put on some decent 4 valve per cylinder quad 4 heads!! Running the crank timing won't be a problem because if I remember correctly, the crank gear is the part that had the timing 'notches' on them for the ECM reference. The old sunbird 2.0L crank gear will simply slide on to the daewoo crankshaft. My biggest problem is that I don't have a turbo sunbird wiring harness.



Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!

2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Monday, June 13, 2005 4:32 AM
There are 4 valve/ cylinder heads available for the smallblock.

I think the timing ring on the 'bird crank is machined into the crankshaft... either just before or just after #2 main journal iirc.

The mpfi harness can be used with the sunbird ecm if you're willing to make modifications to it. After all, the wire carries electricity no matter what color the insulation is.

-->Slow
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Monday, June 13, 2005 11:52 AM
Will I have to use a 2.0 SOHC MPFI crank to make it work, or is it ok with a TBI crank?
Thanks slowolej




Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Monday, June 13, 2005 5:37 PM
slowolej: I would rather try to use the wiring harness that is in the car already if possible. Do you know where I would go to get one of those PROMS made? I don't know of anyone on any place that deals with reprogramming older style GM EEPROMS. reusing the factory wiring and ECM with the different calibration would be much less of a hassle, I think.



Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!

2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Monday, June 13, 2005 7:12 PM
sence the sunbird and the cavi are both j bodys will the 2.0 sunbird motor bolt into the cavi or do you have to weld in new motor mounts
and if it will bolt in does that mean that this new motor will as well


Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Monday, June 13, 2005 8:30 PM
I believe they have the same mounts, but I'm not sure. But why would you want to downgrade to a 2.0 anyway?
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Monday, June 13, 2005 8:39 PM
whats that thing push stock? will the block hold up under that much boost? i have 2.0 ohc mpfi now without distrib so im curious would it be an exact swap or would their still need to be wiring changes?

wicked

Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Monday, June 13, 2005 8:54 PM
oh and that intake positioning looks like its gonna be annoying to fit under the hood gotta get pipe bent,,,

wicked
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:58 AM
wicked dudeman: The 2.0L 16V DOHC daewoo engne puts out 140HP and the 2.2L version is rated at 150HP. I believe this is due mainly to the increase in displacement because as far as I know the ECM calibrations are the same between engines. As far as the intake goes, that will be a problem that I have thought about because the sunbird engine compartment is small and the throttle body is probably going to smack off of my strut tower brace. This is not a good thing. I may have to look into a different intake manifold/setup from a Vauxhall/Opel counterpart.



Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!

2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:26 AM
Tyrin asks:
Quote:

Will I have to use a 2.0 SOHC MPFI crank to make it work, or is it ok with a TBI crank?

TBI 2.0 OHC engines do not have DIS. AFAIK, only the cranks for the MPFI engine have the timing ring.

Paul Moore asks:

Quote:

slowolej: I would rather try to use the wiring harness that is in the car already if possible. Do you know where I would go to get one of those PROMS made? I don't know of anyone on any place that deals with reprogramming older style GM EEPROMS. reusing the factory wiring and ECM with the different calibration would be much less of a hassle, I think.


Pontiacjeff sells Sunbird chips. I believe he's got the timing information to switch to DIS. I've got an EPROM eraser / burner that I carry with me. When it's time to tune, you might seriously want to consider using an eprom emulator and learning to do at least some of your own tuning. Combined with tuning software and ALDL monitor software, you'll be able to make changes to the calibration on the fly. And with that DOHC boosted engine you can bet that you'll need something that can handle changes "on the fly."

Mitchell, the 2.0 OHC turbo engine isn't a bad engine to use. You can use factory programming and save yourself a ton of time making the car drive reasonably well. If you find a running 2.0 turbo and trans for a great price, by all means pick 'em up. But honestly, if you're considering building an engine from the ground up the 2.2 has greater power potential for the same amount of dollars spent, imo.

Now a question for Paul: I've read that some of the Daewoo/ Isuzu blocks are taller than the 'bird block. Do you know which ones? 2.0? 2.2? Depends on other variables?

-->Slow
Re: Project Daewoo engine has officially begun!!!
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:18 AM
is it me, or do thoes motor mounts look like a quad-4?
and if so, why not drop that motor in?, unless the wiering for the two motors is the same.... neat idea though

chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

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