I had to trim a little webbing off the differential of the trans, make custom mounts, the exhaust crossover and the shift counterweight need to be made to accommodate each other, custom clutch from SPEC with a TOB spacer, uncut F-body flywheel (the dual mass G6 flywheel is dual step and physically will not fit the 3800 crank), G6 jack shaft with the bracket modified to bolt to the 3800, G6 axle shafts with un-modded N-body front suspension (I think the 06' Cobalt SS Supercharged axles fit stock J suspension, but I believe the SS Turbocharged uses different axles), and an oil filter relocation kit modified to accommodate the equal length axle shafts.
I'm using the stock F23 shift cables (the G6 cables are run differently and are too short), using the stock slave cylinder, and I'm working on modding the stock shifter to work, but if i have to buy a new one I'm looking at the European Dodge stratus shifter, as it has a similar throw and pattern, yet isn't completely made of plastic. The F40 uses the same plugs as the F23, so the wiring should be the same. The diff on the F40 is lower in proportion to the F23 and hangs below the subframe on my car. Also a new trans does not come with a oil fill cap, I still need to figure out what I want to do there.
Part numbers and prices for those curious
2006/2007 Pontiac G6 Manual Transmission (F40) $400 new
55351918 Shift Cable Bracket $29.26
15296498 G6 Shift Knob $74.30
15296500 G6 Shifter $81.84
10357933 RH Axle Shaft $225.93
10357932 LH Axle Shaft $236.35
22668353 Intermediate/ Jack Shaft $242.30
Flywheel $75
Clutch From SPEC - stage 2: SC882-4, and stage 3+: SC883F-4 $700-$900 I think I read somewhere
Clutch from V8Archie #VA884F
It takes 3.27 qt of Castrol BOT 0063
Here's what I did for mounting, and you can see where I had to trim the diff a bit to fit with the sub frame
These pictures are from the F40 swap in a Grand Prix
Issue with the exhaust crossover and shift counterweight
Modified jack shaft bracket
Here's the modified oil filter relocation
I think that is everything, if I missed something or somethings needs to be covered in more detail ask.
I apologize for cluttering up the thread
First 6-speed in a 3rd Gen
talk about the hard way of doin that trans. just a question does that trans and mount extend to far in the wheel well, when fully cranked will the tires hit
JBO since July 30, 2001
I'm pretty sure that I am not having any issues, it sits about flush with the uni body. Though I'm also running unmodded N-body control arms, so I have a wider track width than stock
I really haven't seen it as being that difficult, I've rather been enjoying the work, but it is definitely more expensive than I originally anticipated.
First 6-speed in a 3rd Gen
Nic what is it like now with the 3800 and a 6 speed manual? is it feel more like a sports car now? and what is it like now performance wise?
I don't know, as it's not done yet. I don't expect it to handle like a sports car at all, with all that extra weight up front. Even with removing a lot of things I don't use (A/C, wiper fluid, ABS, cruise control, etc.), and moving the battery to the trunk, it's still going to be front heavy, though when the power steering wasn't hooked up, the front wheels turned surprisingly easy. Performance-wise, it should be the very similar to an L67 with an F23, just with an additional gear that will probably only ever be used on the express way.
First 6-speed in a 3rd Gen
I really don't understand why people seem to think that when adding the 3800 to a jbody, it automatically because horrible in the corners... with proper suspension and tuned right, you don't feel ANY difference compared to a jbody with a factory motor.
Quote:
I don't expect it to handle like a sports car at all
I don't know why everyone only takes part of what was stated and takes it in a different direction! Nowhere in that did I say that it will handle like crap, I said that it won't handle like a SPORTS CAR!
If I thought it was going to handle like crap I wouldn't even be doing this swap, I expect it to handle decent, with some things I have planned it should still be better than the cav, but still NOT like a SPORTS CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First 6-speed in a 3rd Gen
Nic Crosby wrote:Quote:
I don't expect it to handle like a sports car at all
I don't know why everyone only takes part of what was stated and takes it in a different direction! Nowhere in that did I say that it will handle like crap, I said that it won't handle like a SPORTS CAR!
If I thought it was going to handle like crap I wouldn't even be doing this swap, I expect it to handle decent, with some things I have planned it should still be better than the cav, but still NOT like a SPORTS CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you are not directing that at me? I certainly realize these jbodies are FAR from a sports car regardless what engine/suspension you throw into it.
I said what I said because every other post that someone says about the swap usually have something to say about the suspension, the fact that the 3800 weighs so much more than the 2.2/2.4 and that suddenly means the handling automatically becomes crap and that means the swap would be worthless. I have counted a lot of posts that people have said this. Recently read on a cobalt forum where someone was interested in doing the 3800 swap and one person chimed in saying it wasn't worth it ONLY because it would handle aweful and would be unsafe for the road......... ugh, sure.
Personally, mine handles great, have had no issues at all in the corners and it takes off ramps WAY faster than I really should... but it doesn't have stock suspension, that certainly does help.
isaak why bother the new people know more then us veterns
following are questions that people say that know nothing about
a 3800 can't run on a j body pump
-YES IT CAN you mod it might wanna get more fuel but i had a 3.4 pully and was leaning out in high rpm HP tuners can fix this
the engine weight makes it hard to turn
-2.4 weighs 184lbs and 5spd trans weighs 88lbs so if you add a 3800 that weighs 392 with 214 auto trans
3800 with auto trans in a w body weighs 606
3800 with 5spd in a j body weighs 480
2.4 5spd j body weighs 272
so you add 208lbs to the car in the front BIG FAWKING DEAL
oh you need big suspsion to handle that weight
-FAWK OFF
when you do this swap you dont NEED TO DO A BUNCH OF THINGS we do them to make it hand nicers because all around the j body handling is mediocer at best put it this way I HAVE THROWN my car into turns the are SUGGESTED speeds of say 50kmh at about 100kmh i have a 3800 5spd and porkit and koni yellows and all new urethane bushings but thats MY CHOICE to have that
the 6spd is nice and i would have loved to have one but the added cost of the trnas was retarded i sold my old trans for 100 and paid 150 for the F23 so it cost me 50 bucks and F40 would have been 1500-2000 just for the trans to put that into the car YOU WOULD NEVER GET IT BACK
not to mention parts are hard to find as it was an option for what 1-2 years on the G6 only F23 had 3 modles years of BASE MODLE ECCONOMY CARS theres piles of the 2200 trans out thereyou blow one up get 100 bucks go buy another one then build the one you blew up still cheaper then a F40
JUST SAYING
these are what GRINDS MY GEARs.
big update coming on my car soon
JBO since July 30, 2001
I know, I should know better.
I too was intrigued by the F40 swap when I was doing mine, but I could not justify the extra work, cost of parts and the lack of getting those parts. My Getrag cost me $250 with barely any miles on it, and it is still going strong with nearly 400hp / 400lbs tq at the wheels... handles every bit of it.
Nic, keep us updated on the swap!
Matt, what you got in the works? get the wiring fixed?
Isaak, I apologize for my earlier post. I thought you were directing that towards me, but regardless, I was out of line.
I would agree, in the end the 6-speed swap is not worth it. But I love doing the work and I've always wanted a 6-speed. For me the F40's are easy to come by, a half hour drive and $400 dollars and I can take a brand new one home any day of the week.
My project is on hold for a little while due to school, but when I get back to it I will try to put some updates over here on my progress
First 6-speed in a 3rd Gen
yes its all fix and done issak i have a part for you that i'm not gonna use anymore check your PM
JBO since July 30, 2001
NOTa2_4 wrote:yes its all fix and done issak i have a part for you that i'm not gonna use anymore check your PM
check your PM Matt.
My 3800 is modded out, 400hp is enough
So you didn't use the Pontiac G6 shifter? you used the stock sunfire shifter?
Nic Crosby wrote:I had to trim a little webbing off the differential of the trans, make custom mounts, the exhaust crossover and the shift counterweight need to be made to accommodate each other, custom clutch from SPEC with a TOB spacer, uncut F-body flywheel (the dual mass G6 flywheel is dual step and physically will not fit the 3800 crank), G6 jack shaft with the bracket modified to bolt to the 3800, G6 axle shafts with un-modded N-body front suspension (I think the 06' Cobalt SS Supercharged axles fit stock J suspension, but I believe the SS Turbocharged uses different axles), and an oil filter relocation kit modified to accommodate the equal length axle shafts.
I'm using the stock F23 shift cables (the G6 cables are run differently and are too short), using the stock slave cylinder, and I'm working on modding the stock shifter to work, but if i have to buy a new one I'm looking at the European Dodge stratus shifter, as it has a similar throw and pattern, yet isn't completely made of plastic. The F40 uses the same plugs as the F23, so the wiring should be the same. The diff on the F40 is lower in proportion to the F23 and hangs below the subframe on my car. Also a new trans does not come with a oil fill cap, I still need to figure out what I want to do there.
Part numbers and prices for those curious
2006/2007 Pontiac G6 Manual Transmission (F40) $400 new
55351918 Shift Cable Bracket $29.26
15296498 G6 Shift Knob $74.30
15296500 G6 Shifter $81.84
10357933 RH Axle Shaft $225.93
10357932 LH Axle Shaft $236.35
22668353 Intermediate/ Jack Shaft $242.30
Flywheel $75
Clutch From SPEC - stage 2: SC882-4, and stage 3+: SC883F-4 $700-$900 I think I read somewhere
Clutch from V8Archie #VA884F
It takes 3.27 qt of Castrol BOT 0063
Here's what I did for mounting, and you can see where I had to trim the diff a bit to fit with the sub frame
These pictures are from the F40 swap in a Grand Prix
Issue with the exhaust crossover and shift counterweight
Modified jack shaft bracket
Here's the modified oil filter relocation
I think that is everything, if I missed something or somethings needs to be covered in more detail ask.
I apologize for cluttering up the thread
my biggest question is, is how to balance the weight distribution between the front and rear better? if the engine and tranny will weigh a lot in my j body, how will i make to where it doesn't affect cornering as much?
and another question is what axle brand is good for over 300+ ft ib torque? if I upgrade my engine i will need axles that can handle more horsepower.
who cars on the weight its FWD more weight up front more ttraction as for cornering if your building a car for cornering don't use a 3800 in this car then use and eco with a saab turbo
stock getrag axels work fine cause your gonna spin them out anyways unless your do some more serious mods like raven did then i think turbo tech has heavier duty axels
remember this this in the drive tran don't brake because of power things break because of excessive grip.
you put wideass, sticky tires on they wont slip so if they grab to hard whats next shaft, ok put on stronger shafts, what gives next??? TRANS, see who this goes you do one thing you start doing other things to make it better.
best way get the clutch you need to do the job first then build the trans whil its all out, shaft and wheels can come later, work engine out not wheels in
JBO since July 30, 2001
is it better to have more weight in the front or less for cornering? cause i also planned on getting fiberglass fenders, and a carbon fiber/ fiberglass hood for less weight.
doesn't matther its a j body unless you plan to redo the suspension geometry its not worth even trying
its a matter of whats the point do the swap then see where your gonna go. the weight you need to shave off i don't think you can unless you go aluminum subframe and stock cradle
personally its a waste of time to worry about it, the car corners just fine its just got a couple hundred extra pounds over the wheels no biggy
JBO since July 30, 2001
I decided when i do the 3800 swap, that I also convert the rear drum brakes to disks since it will be better to slow down especially with a bigger engine on the front.
so i could use some of this information to 5 spd swap my 99 lumina ltz.........
maybe you would be betther to use a f40 or the older grand prix 5spd the f23 might not be a good fit for the heaviness of a lumina check with the w bodys guys what there doin
JBO since July 30, 2001
i have tried to look some things up, but i havnt gotten very far. only thing i know for sure is when this second trans quits, im looking for some 5sp setup.
So provided I can get all of this stuff from a U Pull It relatively cheap, what is cheaper/easier, F40 or F23? I realize I'm going to need a custom clutch for the F23. Do I need one for the F40?
Gonna rip out a 98 GTP harness and ECM, and hopefully find a low mileage Series III motor to dump in.
