You can drive some cars without a battery.............
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:You can drive some cars without a battery.............
lol
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ok let me explain my theory for Anton, the all-knowing(but still a damn noob) car audio EXPERT as he so stupidly portrays himself here all the @!#$ time....
Larger gas tank in my analogy=more batteries (See more space to store potential energy)
Money to put gas into tank=voltage coming from the alternator.
get the analogy now?
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
i wasn't arguing your statement unholy. with enough batteries you in theory could go on forever because you'd never fully discharge everyone. kinda the reason why you see spl beasts with 20 batteries in the back, im talking more your everyday driver. diffrent setups require diffrent equipment. spl beast you want allot of batteries because you have 30 seconds to make your mark so you dont want to lose anything and you can't wait for the alt to discharge. everyday driver you dont want to be relying on your batteries to keep the car running, you want a setup where the alternator can handle the daily duties so your not draining the battery as you drive down the road booming yoru system.
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sndsgood wrote:i wasn't arguing your statement unholy. with enough batteries you in theory could go on forever because you'd never fully discharge everyone. kinda the reason why you see spl beasts with 20 batteries in the back, im talking more your everyday driver. diffrent setups require diffrent equipment. spl beast you want allot of batteries because you have 30 seconds to make your mark so you dont want to lose anything and you can't wait for the alt to discharge. everyday driver you dont want to be relying on your batteries to keep the car running, you want a setup where the alternator can handle the daily duties so your not draining the battery as you drive down the road booming yoru system.
agreed 100%. having a HO alt big enough to more than cover the draw of the system, as well as run the rest of the vehicle, is absolutely the preferred way to go.
my only concern is the fact that the OP is wanting to run ~2kw RMS in sub amp alone. I have no idea what his highs amp is capable of making for power, but being rated at 150x4 RMS at 4 ohms, even overrated it could easily add another 80-100A to his draw. his current draw could easily exceed 250A during peaks (system alone, not including lights, what's needed to keep the car running etc), something that most HO alts will be stretched to the limit on (if not far exceeded in the case of smaller HO alts and cheapo re-winds, as continuous duty cycle is often far less than the "peak" rating we all buy into).
and with alot of the new basshead music being almost test-tonish and near-constant, he could be walking past the limits of most decent HO alts and dipping well into the battery if he's hard on the volume knob. our stock batts don't do well being discharged repeatedly, and can leave him walking (happened to me twice now). hence my suggestion for a battery upgrade or additional battery storage.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote: if you think you're that much better than them because you're "correct" I hope your progeny don't turn out as screwed up as yourself.
agreed, and he may need to add a battery or maybe two. its all dependant on his playing style. if he's bumping 2500+ watts and draining his battery likely he will be deaf in a few years anyway and he won't have to worry about audio.
i generally say, build your system. see where the draw is at and how much juice your suckig down and then upgrade as needed. first being wiring then a HO alt then upgrade the batterie/batteries if needed. if your only running at half volume 90% of the time and then going full blast for a few seconds to try and impress yoru buddies a HO alt may be fine. if your running your system full tilt and killing your ears all the time then as said youll likel need a couple batteries on top of the ho alt.
but then again i tend to allready think that people have upgraded the battery allready.
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that isn't a great website by any stretch of any imagination.
their "advice" is just a copy/paste off of other websites....websites that push optima batteries and capacitors. I'd automatically cross off the word "great" based on those two alone.
they talk about dead batteries, yet don't seem to want to explain the goodness of a decent deep cycle. I don't agree that a second battery automatically becomes a huge additional load just on its own. I've ran dual batteries in several vehicles without huge systems, off stock alts, and had zero reliability issues with those alts. they make it sound like it's impending doom just adding a second battery, which by itself is far from it.
that site has no mention of proper wiring or, fusing. they only mention 1 of the BIG3 upgrades. I don't even see mention of isolators etc for times when you want to crank your stereo with the car off. it seems that their advice is 10+ years old, horribly incomplete and somewhat misleading.
are sites like these where you get all your information, Anton?
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote: if you think you're that much better than them because you're "correct" I hope your progeny don't turn out as screwed up as yourself.
Have you read his posts? I think you would immediately retract your question as the answer is clear, dude.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
well i give you that the brands they are suggesting is out of date, but the information is dead on. im sorry if you dont understand what they are saying. and i saw nothing of capacitors in there, i even read it twice just now to check before posting..
also just because the alternator didnt fail doesnt mean there wasnt extra stress on it. did you have a volt meter on the batteries to find out how low they went under load?
click sig for my car audio videos
Theoretically, if the alternator has to charge more than one battery from a dead state then yes it will be harder on the alternator. But for day to day, more batteries is not going to harm the alternator because the alt will usually just be 'topping up' the batteries at the same rate as it would before.
There is no extra current draw, aside from the initial charge to full.
Unless youre pulling a hell of a lot of power and constantly draining and refilling the rear battery. Then you would have the stress of maintaining the voltage to run the car along will refilling the rear battery.
I think its all dependent on what kind of power youre running and youre stock alt amperage.
But that's apples and apples again.
If you're pulling enough to drain the rear battery enough to damage the rear alt, then you'd also be pulling enough to do damage with a single battery.
I'm just trying to clarify that a 2nd battery is not going to be the
cause of alternator damage as someone implied earlier in the thread.
"rear alt" was a typo. This is a car with 1 alt I'm talking about.
the user is generally the cause when that type of failure occurs. i gaurentee i could take a 3000 watt system and run it on a stock setup and not damage batteries or alternators, its all about knowing what your pulling power amperage wise versus what your system is capable of charging. if you have half a brain you should know what your setup is pulling and know how long you can safely run the setup before you start causing issues. its real simple. turn the volume down, or off.
that site though i couldn't find the date on that page and didnt feel like trying to search looked like something that would have been written about 15 years ago.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
but then when you do the math Jason, to get an actual 3000 watts RMS out of a stock charging/battery system isn't exactly going to happen there bub.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
I'm 1000% in agreement with sndsgood - the user will dictate how your equipment will survive. without question.
JL - I've personally seen more than 3000w RMS clamped out of a stock j-body G25 battery, burp with car off. LOL I'm not sure if it even took 3 seconds to dip below 10V. the retard noob who did it was fortunate to have his amps survive LOL
Anton Miller (PPC) wrote:well i give you that the brands they are suggesting is out of date, but the information is dead on. im sorry if you dont understand what they are saying. and i saw nothing of capacitors in there, i even read it twice just now to check before posting..
also just because the alternator didnt fail doesnt mean there wasnt extra stress on it. did you have a volt meter on the batteries to find out how low they went under load?
copy the first sentence of that site and put it into google if you don't believe me about the other websites. I thought I made it perfectly clear that the other websites I found, which had identical write-ups, were ones that pushed caps and garbage optimas. copy/google is a great grad student trick for catching plagiarists in school. works great for internet phonies as well
I actually HAVE monitored my voltage closely for the last decade or so, and adding a second battery didn't change my voltage (idling, driving or car off). I'm not sure how you think you can monitor "stress" with a voltmeter though.... if you want to see increased current draw an ammeter would be far better. and I had one of those in my old explorer, didn't notice anything worth looking twice at, nothing that suggested "extreme alt-killing stress". FAR from it in my experience.
that "extra stress" appears to be minor and well within the tolerances of every alternators I've run. stock or otherwise. it's not until you start overrunning your alt and seriously dipping into those batteries that your alt is being put to the test. how an alt holds up at that point depends on its quality. good ones can handle alot....but it really comes down to the user.
if you have anything to add involving your own data/experience, post it up.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote: if you think you're that much better than them because you're "correct" I hope your progeny don't turn out as screwed up as yourself.
JLAudioCavalier wrote:but then when you do the math Jason, to get an actual 3000 watts RMS out of a stock charging/battery system isn't exactly going to happen there bub.
read what i said again, i said i can take that much and not damage the charging system or batteries. i never said i was going to get 3000 watts out of it all day long or even for 5 minutes, but it can be done safely if you are responsible. to be honest unless your competing seriously you dont even need 3000 watts. at that power level your likely doing instant damage to your ears. and if your not competing it doesnt matter if your hitting 145.6 or 147. unless yoru competing it just a bunch of kids trying to go down the street going well i have 146 and you only have 145. no diffrent then the idiots going well i got 26" wheels and you only got 24" or my car has 30 tv's and yoru car only has 28 im better.
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wow rant much? when did someone argue how much power a DD system needs? lol I'm with ya, but damn that was out of left field
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
sorry, im getting to be an old man. and it annoys me a bit when people talk about how much they love music and need a good system and then proceed to do permanent damage to the things they use to hear the music. if you love music so much why would you damage the only thing that you can hear the music with? the 3000 watts thing was just a number put up that is generally speaking above what our alts can handle on a normal basis.
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Are you going to get angry and say get off my lawn with 6k to the subs in my daily car?
Your car may do 13 sec @ 103 mph, but my car does 146db @ 35 hz.
