Damn dude, I am hoping for the best

Edit: Did you check to see if the head was completely cleaned after all the work was done? Oldskool and I are brainstorming and really don't see how that bottom end would be bad, did you take a pic of the sludge?


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, July 29, 2011 6:20 AM


LE61T PTE6262 Powered

I've learned from experience on these oil pans, use the "black" rtv, and don't be afraid to use a decent amount of it...eff GM's 3mm bead recommendation lol.

Any chance there were still some shavings from porting in any of the head passages? Probably a long shot but it would mean there is nothing wrong otherwise. Also, i don't see how there could be interference on the reluctor ring, pics?

Dang that sucks. Just curious, why do you guys say you doubt it's the bottom end? You got it as a used motor right?

Hopefully the shavings came from the head, and after a couple of more oil changes it will be less and less.










~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

Ya I used the Blue "high performance" RTV, problem is I had a brain fart and applied it to the block and not to the pan...so there was a few spots actually where it missed and didn't seal at all against the pan...live and learn..lol

There could be, I washed the head myself 3 times so it is unlikely, also I checked with a magnet and the material is infact metallic, so it can't be alluminum.

The reluctor ring is a hunch, the factory tolerance between the sensor and the ring is no more that a few sheets of paper, so if its cocked sideways, perhaps one side is sitting to low and contacting the ring. It is just a theory tho till I pull the sensor out.

No pics of the sludge or the strange wear pattern on the reluctor ring, I will get some pics of the ring tonight, oil pan is off to my buddies work to be thrown in the parts washer, so I can't get pics of that anymore.

Like I said, im crossing my fingers that it is something simple.

WHITECAVY wrote:Dang that sucks. Just curious, why do you guys say you doubt it's the bottom end? You got it as a used motor right?

Hopefully the shavings came from the head, and after a couple of more oil changes it will be less and less.

Ya it was a used motor, but it only had 40k on it. The bottom ends are pretty built proof and the yard I got it from is very reputable, the cylinder walls were mint and you could still see the cross hatching.

I've never really heard of a stock ECO spinning a rod or crank bearing, and definitely not with only 40k on it.

Bottom end was very clean when I pulled the pan off, no signs of metal in the factory pan either.

Anything can happen tho I guess.

Also, like I said, the metal is metallic, so that rules out it being alluminum shavings, and there are no signs of metal in the oil in the head, so I'm almost positive this is a bottom end issue.

I dunno, my money is on the crank sensor or the oil pump gears.

I am hoping its the crank sensor or gears, I just hope that the shavings didn't get up into the cylinders.



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Weekend Updates:

Got the trigger wheel sorted out and properly centered this time, oil pan back on.

Exhaust is finished, cam cap is clearanced for the brake line.

Started the car, let it run at 1600rpm for 20 mins to break it in/flush any metal shavings out. Drained the oil imediately after and it came out clean. Pulled the oil filter and its the same story...so I don't know where the shavings came from after the first start up, but they are no longer there....which is great.

Car started and ran great, it did however develop a very werid intermitant "sqweak" (best way I can describe it) after running for 10mins or so....it was hard to pin point but it sounded like it was coming from the back of the motor. It went away as soon as I would give it some gas, and then return a few seconds after it idled again.

I think it has something to do with the way I have my PCV system set-up currently, I'm going to try something different tonight and see if the noise is still there....hopefully its something simple like this.

Car would of hit the road this weekend..but I tried to adjust my coil overs and ended up stripping the bolts cause they were siezed, like an idiot I tried to drill them out and now the collars are @!#$, so the car can't move. I'm going to see what spare suspension parts I have at my house and try and temp something in to get the car moving till Ground Control can send me some new collars.

With any luck it might be on the road tonight or tomorrow at the latest.

Anyways, onto some pictures..

Clearanced


Exhaust (Race > Street)

Looks good how far does that hang down, hard to tell from that pic.

there are some bogart skinnys on honda tech for sale 5x100 brand new. $300




Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, August 02, 2011 6:12 PM

Buy my stuff!!! CLICK

R.I.P. Brian Klocke, you will never be forgotten

Copter - It hangs down a fair bit, I'll try and get a pic now that the car is on the ground.

Brandon - Thanks for the tip! Hopefully he still has them


Update: Got my header evac in last night, minus the hose, swapped my rear suspension back to stock so I could steal the collars and use them on the front for now to drive the car around.

Took it out for a ride last night, had a bit of a hard time idleing at first but it cleared up after a while, IAC still needs to learn the new steps I think.

It runs like a freaking champ tho overall, the motor moves the car along effortlessly at low rpm/low throttle, much stronger than the old motor thats for sure.

Didn't get on it much, AFR is around 16:1 once the motor hits PE...LOL so some more fuel is in order.

Car is still at my buddies, gonna grab some heater hose tonight to finish my header evac install and then it comes home tonight, gonna drive it to work for the rest of the week to get some miles on the clutch then I can start tuning

Yea thats what I was thinking. I have to redo mine as I whacked the crap out of it driving and well it didn't fair well.

AWesome man! Do you tune it on 93 Oct pump gas or race gas of some kind? I loved the torque and part throttle response of my old hybrid when it was at its best.

Negative, just 91 sadly Oh well I'll see how it does, there is one place that sells 94 but its kinda sketchy, people have said they had issues running their 94 over Shell 91 (which is what I try and run all the time).


I do have a tuning question maybe someone can shed some light on....

When I first did my cams/intake manifold/injectors last year when I started tuning my car was actually too rich. I was told this is because the injector constant doesn't affect the VE tables once the motor is in PE, and since the injectors were bigger than stock it was adding more fuel. Is this true?

That leads me to my second question, my car is super lean right now, tuned last year on 36lb/hr SS/SC injectors and made 170whp. I now have in 42lb/hr injectors (approx. 18% bigger and the 36's) and my AFR is super lean.

The motor should make 20-30% more power than last year (205-215whp), so in theory it should need the same amount more fuel.

I already have a 30% VE Offset and my max cell at 100% throttle is in the mid 120's (from last years tune), so I'm pretty much maxed out already at the 30% VE Offset.


So, is my first question about the fuel injectors and the injector constant true? If so should I only have to add 12% (30% - 18% = 12 more fuel? Or do I need to add 30% more? (I'd rather start out with more fuel needed and dial it back than start out with too little and have to add).

If I do add 30% more....I would need to bump my VE offset to 60%? I would still be near maxing that out at values near 150 in those cells.

WTF am I missing here? It seems like that can't be right.....


PS. Sorry is this is a total newb question, I'm still learning here.

Well, regarding the tuning question, here's my take on some generalities. The injector constant is not a magic bullet that lets us slap in any injector we want, calculate a constant and be on our merry way. It gets us in the ball park. Also, the injector constant as i understand it (as i've experienced) is the first/primary constant used for fueling. If it is way off, EVERYTHING else will be affected, including PE mode. Fact is a single multiplier doesn't really describe how many properties different injectors have, much less allow us to "tune the injector" properly.

As far as the particular issue you are describing, i would start by calculating the correct injector constant and using that if you have not already, and set the IPW vs VAC to "1" across the board as well. If the car will run without too much of a hassle in open loop, log afr error against a histogram that is set up as the IPW vs VAC table, essentially logging afr error vs manifold pressure. This will tell you if the error is global or just at wot or just in vacuum or whatever. From there you should be able to nail down fueling. I'm not sure if you started with the timing tables i sent you, but if you follow this process give your self a bit of extra room on advance until you know it's well out of the 16:1 range lol.

Thanks for the insight Ryan, and thanks again for the start up tune!

I have set my timing tables back to stock till I sort out the fueling and I have the correct injector constant in there for my 42's.

I would like to add SOME fuel before trying to do some logging, some part of my brain won't let me keep my foot to the floor when I see 16:1 AFR...lol

Another quick question, if I add 10% to my VE offset, does that add 10% to the values I currently have in there? Or does it just allow me to add another 10% more fuel, since each offset the values are capped at there respective offsets?

Sorry again if I sound like dummy...but I never had to go through this when tuning my set-up before.

I cant wait to see some numbers or times on this thing.

Exhaust is badass! thats gotta be a big difference one you open that cutout, going from the smaller crush bent piping to open long tube header.

Lets see some engine bay pics now that its all together!

If you add ten percent to the offset il will add "10" to all ve tables

Nice progress man. Can't wait for vids and numbers. Wish I could start my hybrid motor sometime soon. Also did you see my post about the bracket for the crank sensor? Or do you have it in a cad file maybe?

Sorry, I forgot to respond to ya.

The bracket was pretty easy to make....I cut out a rectangle out of a sheet of aluminum, took my measurements, bent it into an "L" in a bench vice, measured where my holes needed to be and drilled them. The hole the CPS sensor goes throught I drilled with a step-bit. I put a few washers behind the bracket so it would sit flat when using that bolt hole, other than that takes some time to get your holes in the perfect spot....I had to ream some of mine out to get everything perfect.

Took me an hour and a half tops.



Drove the car around some more last night....it threw the P0133 O2 sensor 1 incefficent switching, not sure why...maybe it has something to do with my harness extension.

Also, fun fact, my header melted my wideband controller pretty bad (still works tho) and part of the split loom for my CPS wire extention....son of bitch gets hot!

Oh well, back in the garage it goes for a bit tonight and hopefully sort this @!#$ out.

About your 02 code....

Same one i threw after installing that header. Hasnt come back on, but i kno the 02 isnt switching properly still. The PCM has adapted to it, or so it seems. The problem i had been having is alot better now, but still there. Im still stuck on the fact that the 02 is in a bigger pipe than its designed for, I just havent had a chance to weld in another bung in a primary.

For example. If you have a shoe box, and you mist 1oz. of fuel in it. The concentration would be much greater than if you were to mist the same amount in your living room. The velocity of the exhaust gas is slowed down quite a bit in a 3inch pipe I'd imagine aswell. That would also affect 02 readings.

I think my wideband outputs a 0-1V as an auxilary, may end up using that and see what happens.




14.04 @ 101 ALLMOTOR

Paul K wrote:About your 02 code....

Same one i threw after installing that header. Hasnt come back on, but i kno the 02 isnt switching properly still. The PCM has adapted to it, or so it seems. The problem i had been having is alot better now, but still there. Im still stuck on the fact that the 02 is in a bigger pipe than its designed for, I just havent had a chance to weld in another bung in a primary.

For example. If you have a shoe box, and you mist 1oz. of fuel in it. The concentration would be much greater than if you were to mist the same amount in your living room. The velocity of the exhaust gas is slowed down quite a bit in a 3inch pipe I'd imagine aswell. That would also affect 02 readings.

I think my wideband outputs a 0-1V as an auxilary, may end up using that and see what happens.

I bet you mailed his problem on the head. It makes sense the way you explained it.

Pssh race..my exhaust is like that all day every day lol...looks good




13.1 @ 115

SLO CAV (autocrossing dude) wrote:

Paul K wrote:About your 02 code....

Same one i threw after installing that header. Hasnt come back on, but i kno the 02 isnt switching properly still. The PCM has adapted to it, or so it seems. The problem i had been having is alot better now, but still there. Im still stuck on the fact that the 02 is in a bigger pipe than its designed for, I just havent had a chance to weld in another bung in a primary.

For example. If you have a shoe box, and you mist 1oz. of fuel in it. The concentration would be much greater than if you were to mist the same amount in your living room. The velocity of the exhaust gas is slowed down quite a bit in a 3inch pipe I'd imagine aswell. That would also affect 02 readings.

I think my wideband outputs a 0-1V as an auxilary, may end up using that and see what happens.

I bet you mailed his problem on the head. It makes sense the way you explained it.

then why do us turbo people with 3" downpipes don't have any issues?



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Qwibby PTE Powered wrote:

SLO CAV (autocrossing dude) wrote:

Paul K wrote:About your 02 code....

Same one i threw after installing that header. Hasnt come back on, but i kno the 02 isnt switching properly still. The PCM has adapted to it, or so it seems. The problem i had been having is alot better now, but still there. Im still stuck on the fact that the 02 is in a bigger pipe than its designed for, I just havent had a chance to weld in another bung in a primary.

For example. If you have a shoe box, and you mist 1oz. of fuel in it. The concentration would be much greater than if you were to mist the same amount in your living room. The velocity of the exhaust gas is slowed down quite a bit in a 3inch pipe I'd imagine aswell. That would also affect 02 readings.

I think my wideband outputs a 0-1V as an auxilary, may end up using that and see what happens.

I bet you mailed his problem on the head. It makes sense the way you explained it.

then why do us turbo people with 3" downpipes don't have any issues?

Paul, the 02 is measuring oxygen, that example you gave doesn't exactly work...because it isn't a sealed system.

The % of oxygen in a 2" downpipe is exactly the same as a 3" downpipe...because the amount of oxygen moving through it is determined by the motor and not the pipe size. The exhaust gases coming out of the head have the same oxygen content as they do when they leave the tail pipe, no matter what the pipe size. Since its a sealed system there is no way to change the oxygen content unless you have a leak in your exhaust pipe that is sucking fresh air in from outside the car.

The only differance here being the velocity at which it passes the through the pipe is dependant on the pipe size, but Phil is right...everyone with a 3" DP on their turbo cars have no issues with cruising or idleing (when velocity and AFR would be the same as a NA car).

I have no issues with crusing AFR like you had experianced Paul... that code threw right after I had given it a bit of a run in 2nd gear, so I figure the AFR went rich for too long after I let off the gas and the narrowband didn't "switch" over 14.7 for long enough it tripped the light.

I believe the criteria is if it doesn't switch over 14.7 once in 0.8sec and does this twice it will trip the P0133 code.

Either way, I put another 60km on last night and the CEL hasn't come back...which is good.


Fixed up all my melting wideband issue, also fixed up my melting CPS loom issue last night...hopefully I have no more problems with that.

AFR is better than I thought also, I think I need to just "fatten" up my fuel table at the lower TPS levels and add some fuel to the top end of my tables as it starts to get far to lean over 6000rpm.

Took it up to 7000rpm last night tho and it pulls hard even tho the tune is very @!#$ty at the moment!


Going to finish up my header evac system tonight and fix a massive exhaust leak and then we should be ready to rock and roll.