John H [Cavalierkid wrote:]as long as its cheaper the the jbodyperformance option.

is this going to be a reflash where we send our stock ecu in? or does th work like a hypertec?

You get a program for your laptop (or pc i guess if you have one hell of an extension cable) which will read the stock pcm calibration and then display it on a screen in a graphical interface. From there you can alter fuel and spark tables as well as shift points and stuff if you're an auto trans. I would assume this can also change rev/speed limiters also. Once you have modified the calibration you can then save it, and flash it to the pcm. Basically, you're performing a reflash with your own parameters, just like GM would do it at their dealerships.

Personally I hope this product comes to fruition, because having a product like this could quite seriously take performance J-bodies to the next level. This software is the rough equivalent of a Hondata, but for the J-body.

If i'm reading the website correctly it also allows you to rescale sensor values, which would enable the tuner to utilize 2 and 3 bar MAP sensors and even convert to a wideband O2 sensor to control fuel ratios. Note, someone from HPTuners will have to confirm that, but that's how i read into it anyway.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

Looks as if it's time to scrap the Eco and go elsewhere! Holy crap! If HP Tuners is not going to support the Cavalier/Sunfire Eco, then who is? Based on the info on their web site it seems each vehicle is different and even if they do the Ion/Cobalt, it won't work in the Cavalier/Sunfire arena!
May be time to go with something already supported by the aftermarket world and quit waiting around for the "this engine is the greatest to tune and has so much potential" BS!!




Eh...old man with a Corvette now...it was bound to happen sooner rather than later right?

Well the question begs to be asked... where were all the Eco owners during the voting process? I'm sure they'll wind up doing Eco software for the cavalier too, but they're a business... the most votes came from 2.4/2.2OHV people, so which is the smartest business decision?

Granted, the eco pcm is the biggest bitch of them all, so it really needs something like this, but you guys should have been flooding HPTuners with votes instead of waiting until now to cry about it.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

People if you go back and read there post on there forum, they said they would support any motor that is in the 97+, which includes the ecotec. Even if they do not start with the ecotec, I'm sure they will do it. The ecotec computers are somewhat different.
Also as said where were the ecotecs when they asked for VIN's.

As for swaping 95-96 ODBII to a 97 ODBII, do a search for Speedracers post. There is a way to do it.



FU Tuning

John Higgins wrote:People if you go back and read there post on there forum, they said they would support any motor that is in the 97+, which includes the ecotec. Even if they do not start with the ecotec, I'm sure they will do it. The ecotec computers are somewhat different.
Also as said where were the ecotecs when they asked for VIN's.

As for swaping 95-96 ODBII to a 97 ODBII, do a search for Speedracers post. There is a way to do it.

Are you referring to this post?

If so, cool, because from what I'm reading, it says the programs in all 96-99 ECUs are the same, just different connectors and pin-outs. Does anyone know if this is true for the 2.2s? 96-97 at least...I doubt the 2200s are the same...


<img src=http://hometown.aol.com/yogiandbooboo7/images/french.jpg>

Nevermind, I hit up NY jbodies here and it looks like they're saying all 95-97 comps are externally identical...which would make swapping a 97 comp in plug and play correct? And then the HP tuners would be possible for us 96 2.2s...
HPtuners is going to release software for a ECU that only came in one year? hmmm


<img src=http://hometown.aol.com/yogiandbooboo7/images/french.jpg>

Hi guys,

My first post on the forum

It is certainly our intention to support the 2.2L ecotec. I have coded and tested the reading and writing process for those newer style small PCMs (much like the 2004+ V6 PCMs) and so far seems to work fine on the bench. The editor is ready to go with all the mundane tasks of checksums and file validation for everything from 97-04. Basically the part left to do is all the definition files for the various calibrations in the editor and scanner and a whole bunch of testing!!

The plan is definitely this year for a public release of something.

At this stage it will likely be Cav's and S10's that are supported first, depending how that goes we may expand into other models.

I'll try to keep in touch with this forum every week or so but for the latest news or if you have specifc questions about our product feel free to post on our forum or at least post a link back to here to give me a prod. I'll probably set up a seperate 4 cyl section on our forum in the coming weeks anyway.

Thanks again for your patience and feedback guys!!

Cheers,

Chris...

Thank you Chris for the help and support



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

That's great news to hear! I can't wait to get my hands on this peice of software, it's a dream come true!


15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?

For Sale:
Getrag '00-'02 2.4 8000kms $800

Scarab...I placed my vote and emailed everyone I know that is not on this board on a regular basis to emial their VIN as well...so I did my part!

Looks like they will support the Eco though based on the other posts here now so we'll see I guess. My main point wasn't "I'm b!tching" about no support, more to the point that for over 3 years I've listened to the BS about this engine and it's ability to be tuned!

Without going high dollar stand alone...there is ZERO tuning (proven!) that works! Sure there are a few guys here and there that say they can do this or that and these cams work and this S/C will do the trick or our turbo is "made" for the Eco, etc, etc, etc...but as of today, we are not even touching the potential of these engines based on GM racing and so many other peoples thoughts and opinions.

Hopefully this is the real deal and we can actaully use this to move forward in the tuning world and no longer be considered the door mat!




Eh...old man with a Corvette now...it was bound to happen sooner rather than later right?

Quote:

Looks like they will support the Eco though based on the other posts here now so we'll see I guess. My main point wasn't "I'm b!tching" about no support, more to the point that for over 3 years I've listened to the BS about this engine and it's ability to be tuned! Without going high dollar stand alone...there is ZERO tuning (proven!) that works! Sure there are a few guys here and there that say they can do this or that and these cams work and this S/C will do the trick or our turbo is "made" for the Eco, etc, etc, etc...but as of today, we are not even touching the potential of these engines based on GM racing and so many other peoples thoughts and opinions.

Oh believe me Deron, i know your pain on that subject..... I might not own a J but i have been trying to help with the tuning of a turbo eco J for some time now... it boils down to the fact that there's something weird in the way that open/closed loop is determined in that engine that makes tuning a real bitch. I totally agree with you. GM gave us an engine that mechanically, responds great to mods and can take a lot of power and abuse, but at the same time cursed us with one of the bitchiest ECU's i've ever dealt with. But, thanks to Chris and his people at HPTuners, that should be over some time this year.

Chris, its awesome to see someone showing interest in the J-body aftermarket, especially since you make a product that really is valuable. I guess now I have to start hunting down my own project J candidate!




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:

Quote:

Looks like they will support the Eco though based on the other posts here now so we'll see I guess. My main point wasn't "I'm b!tching" about no support, more to the point that for over 3 years I've listened to the BS about this engine and it's ability to be tuned! Without going high dollar stand alone...there is ZERO tuning (proven!) that works! Sure there are a few guys here and there that say they can do this or that and these cams work and this S/C will do the trick or our turbo is "made" for the Eco, etc, etc, etc...but as of today, we are not even touching the potential of these engines based on GM racing and so many other peoples thoughts and opinions.

Oh believe me Deron, i know your pain on that subject..... I might not own a J but i have been trying to help with the tuning of a turbo eco J for some time now... it boils down to the fact that there's something weird in the way that open/closed loop is determined in that engine that makes tuning a real bitch. I totally agree with you. GM gave us an engine that mechanically, responds great to mods and can take a lot of power and abuse, but at the same time cursed us with one of the bitchiest ECU's i've ever dealt with. But, thanks to Chris and his people at HPTuners, that should be over some time this year.

Chris, its awesome to see someone showing interest in the J-body aftermarket, especially since you make a product that really is valuable. I guess now I have to start hunting down my own project J candidate!

I do not think GM gave us a bad ECU to have. Our cars respond well to bolt on parts, about the same as any GM car, F-Body etc.. Just like in V8's when you add power adders major tuning is needed. F-Body's because of there history has always had somewhere there. We never have. Still with out a true tuning of the stock ECU, or a Standalone you can tune a nicely turboJ and make great power.

Quote:

Are you referring to this post?

If so, cool, because from what I'm reading, it says the programs in all 96-99 ECUs are the same, just different connectors and pin-outs. Does anyone know if this is true for the 2.2s? 96-97 at least...I doubt the 2200s are the same...
QUOTE]

Yes those are the connectors to transform to a 97+ ECU. As for the ECU's being the same, not 100%. The person who posted that post to start was a GM tech and knows his stuff when it comes to J's. If he says the ECU's are different than I would say they are. I have a 96 J, and a 2001 J. I will compare them.



FU Tuning

I would have voted for the eco if I didnt have to go all the way to the garage to get the VIN

This definitely sounds like something I'll invest in once it comes out for the eco.

Chris if you still need Vins I will give you mine -- I would order today if it were out --

I really need this - I am sure there is plenty more ecos out there that did not really know too much about it

Chris, thanks for your support.
I will definitely be purchasing your product, its wonderful to have somebody investing in further developement of our cars.
Kick@ss is all I can say about this!!

You would have had my VIN but my dealer decided to take 7 weeks to repair my transmission, I just got her back last Friday.

That's like 5-6 eco's that didn't give their vin # lol.


My Car

Quote:

I do not think GM gave us a bad ECU to have. Our cars respond well to bolt on parts, about the same as any GM car, F-Body etc.. Just like in V8's when you add power adders major tuning is needed. F-Body's because of there history has always had somewhere there. We never have. Still with out a true tuning of the stock ECU, or a Standalone you can tune a nicely turboJ and make great power.

ummm yeah, than you can come over and try and tune rich's car for us and see what happens. I wasn't referring to all j-body ecu's but the 03+ eco ecu has a know problem with tuning it for boost. The ECU is so dead set on 14.7:1 a/f ratio that even with 440cc injectors , adjustable fpr, and rising rate fmu, at the top end it STILL went to stoichiometric a/f ratio only pushing 6 lbs of boost. FOr the record, those same injectors can supply a VW 1.8T to 300+ hp at 17+ psi. I sat in the car with a datalogging program and WATCHED the ECU pull back on pulsewidth. Emanage, well the plain truth is that on an 04-05 it just doesn't work right because the ecu doesn't consistently go between open and closed loop operation. Rich's car will run fine on the street from a 50 roll and we'll have everything (we think) perfectly tuned, but the first time at the track with the turbo on, the ecu got into limp mode on every hard launch and shift and would just flood the engine with fuel. The funniest part is that half of the people on this forum with emanage claimed not to have this problem, claimed that their emanage was working perfectly, and then a month later after we had worked past part of it and figured it out, the same people suddenly started reporting having the same problem. You 2.4 guys, and the OHV guys don't have this problem Apparently theres enough difference in the calibration of the early eco ecu's (2002-2003) that they don't have this issue.... QBE runs perfectly fine a/f ratios with just injectors and fmu, the only difference between his setup and Rich's was that QBE has an 02 while Rich has an 04. That's why eco guys need this software so badly.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

I guess my 03+ ecu is on drugs or something. I have no problem keeping a 11.5 a/f under boost (6 psi so far). Thats just fmu/30#injectors/afpr/pump. As long as I have the pedal at full throttle I get a good a/f. But if I build boost at half throttle it will stay 14.7. This software would be great tho, im another eco owner that would probally buy it but didnt get my vin on the list.

Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:

Quote:

I do not think GM gave us a bad ECU to have. Our cars respond well to bolt on parts, about the same as any GM car, F-Body etc.. Just like in V8's when you add power adders major tuning is needed. F-Body's because of there history has always had somewhere there. We never have. Still with out a true tuning of the stock ECU, or a Standalone you can tune a nicely turboJ and make great power.

ummm yeah, than you can come over and try and tune rich's car for us and see what happens. I wasn't referring to all j-body ecu's but the 03+ eco ecu has a know problem with tuning it for boost. The ECU is so dead set on 14.7:1 a/f ratio that even with 440cc injectors , adjustable fpr, and rising rate fmu, at the top end it STILL went to stoichiometric a/f ratio only pushing 6 lbs of boost. FOr the record, those same injectors can supply a VW 1.8T to 300+ hp at 17+ psi. I sat in the car with a datalogging program and WATCHED the ECU pull back on pulsewidth. Emanage, well the plain truth is that on an 04-05 it just doesn't work right because the ecu doesn't consistently go between open and closed loop operation. Rich's car will run fine on the street from a 50 roll and we'll have everything (we think) perfectly tuned, but the first time at the track with the turbo on, the ecu got into limp mode on every hard launch and shift and would just flood the engine with fuel. The funniest part is that half of the people on this forum with emanage claimed not to have this problem, claimed that their emanage was working perfectly, and then a month later after we had worked past part of it and figured it out, the same people suddenly started reporting having the same problem. You 2.4 guys, and the OHV guys don't have this problem Apparently theres enough difference in the calibration of the early eco ecu's (2002-2003) that they don't have this issue.... QBE runs perfectly fine a/f ratios with just injectors and fmu, the only difference between his setup and Rich's was that QBE has an 02 while Rich has an 04. That's why eco guys need this software so badly.

If it is going to Limp mode there is a reason. Maybe the ECU is seeing boost. Maybe a check valve is needed. I know of a few 2003+ running boost with nice air/fuel's not emange, using FMU's. It is not the ecu just doing it. Something is causing it.



FU Tuning

seriously dude, i don't want to think you're full of it... i'd love to find out it was just something stupid that we've been overlooking all this time, but if you know of anyone with an 04-05 eco with a working setup, than please, give me their name and some way to contact them... but i'm not gonna jack the rest of this thread so feel free to pm me ot something.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

Hmm, now that i think of it... i wonder if chris has any interest in making software for the 1.8T too...




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

Chris P wrote:Hi guys,

My first post on the forum

It is certainly our intention to support the 2.2L ecotec. I have coded and tested the reading and writing process for those newer style small PCMs (much like the 2004+ V6 PCMs) and so far seems to work fine on the bench. The editor is ready to go with all the mundane tasks of checksums and file validation for everything from 97-04. Basically the part left to do is all the definition files for the various calibrations in the editor and scanner and a whole bunch of testing!!

The plan is definitely this year for a public release of something.

At this stage it will likely be Cav's and S10's that are supported first, depending how that goes we may expand into other models.

I'll try to keep in touch with this forum every week or so but for the latest news or if you have specifc questions about our product feel free to post on our forum or at least post a link back to here to give me a prod. I'll probably set up a seperate 4 cyl section on our forum in the coming weeks anyway.

Thanks again for your patience and feedback guys!!

Cheers,

Chris...

Thank you Chris, I'll keep my eye out. I will most definately get it if it's reasonably priced (something in the range similar to the same programs for LT1's and such).


<img src=http://ourworld.cs.com/jwithspray/Nitrosig13303.JPG>

i'm sry to say it, but if they dont come out with smoething for a sunfire with an eco in it i'm giving up on my J. because not having that would make modding my car worthless if i wanted to go bigger then just bolt ons. the car gives me pains with bolt ons.



MY 2003 SUNFIRE

I sent my vote in for my 03 fire

We were the third highest in the vote so eventually there will be something for the sunfires.

that is good to hear chris , we all thnk you