Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS! - Page 4 - Performance Forum

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Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:43 PM
How stuff works to the rescue:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question324.htm



^^Home made sig^^ ghetto, I know. http://members.cardomain.com/blackoutfire

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:59 AM
Every car today contains a rechargeable 12-volt battery. This battery powers everything electrical: the engine's control computer, the ignition system, the radio, the headlights, etc. So the battery is vital to the car's operation.

Like all batteries, a car's 12-volt battery would eventually go dead if it were not recharged, so your car has a built-in recharging system. Most cars have an alternator, along with a voltage regulator, that keeps the battery charged and also provides electricity to the vehicle when the engine is running. A typical alternator can put out between 500 and 1,000 watts when necessary.

Because your car is so dependent on the battery, all cars have a battery light on the dashboard that is designed to warn you if the recharging system fails. A simple circuit looks at the voltage that the alternator is producing, and turns the battery light on if it is low. The battery light indicates a battery charging problem. If the battery light comes on and stays on while you are driving, the most common cause is a broken alternator belt. Total failure of the alternator is another possibility.

The reason why your car can operate normally even though the battery light is on is because your car can run off the energy stored in the battery. Your car will run fine until the battery goes dead. At that point, nothing in your car will work. When the battery light is on, you can still drive your car to the garage -- you will not damage anything. But you want to get to the garage before the battery fails and your car dies.



^ a few contridictory statments but still... same thing i said



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Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:08 AM
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:

04firetec wrote:

Like it said in the inital post, I matched the ports on the manifold to the intake ports on the head. I blended the diameter to the stock diameter at the curve in the runners, where you can no longer reach by conventional means. It definitely made a difference, if only to get rid of the abrupt widening of the port diameter once the air enters the cylinder head. This isn't the only thing I did to the manifold. If you take a look underneath where the throttle body mounts, there's a huge opportunity for flow improvement there. It's a bit difficult to explain exactly what I mean without showing you, but let's just say it has to do with "intrusive" and "ribs"..


only thing is, the abrupt widening creates a wall against the manifold for the intake to pulse against. similar to how the exhaust is.

its helpful on some vehicles to keep low down punch for those that need it. since the valve is not open all the time, air stops. thats all i meant by the gun analogy how velocity is achieved or lost.

air expaning gradually slows it down. but in stock form the velocity is high, then it "shoots" into the intake runner.

not sure how much a difference it feels like cause the runners are still the same size. to get more air in there an increase of the runners, not just what you can see would be necessary. you only flow as much as your smallest point in the runners, and since the full intake manifold runners werent modded, you're technically still flowing the same cfm. extrude honing is one way to try and achieve full runner widening.

just some ideas
sorry event on this subject you are wrong. the eco intake has a bottle neck right at the flange you can see it with the naked eye. and i can tell you that i gained more power from this than from my intake. hands down! i am getting another intake this weekend to split open and and smooth everything out including all the short side radius and no sharp edges.
have you look at the ecotec exhaust manifold? it is even worse the collector is half blocked. i think gm did these restrictions for emissions testing of some sort. now my car with the ported intake and exhaust manifold runs alot better and pulls hard from 3500rpm+ my wife noticed it. nuff said!


see ya!

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:23 PM
Just a little factoid for you folks...

The increased volume of oxygen that's flowing into the engine due to port matching and the removal of obstructions will increase the efficiency of combustion of the engine. Why? Because our cars run rich, so when you increase the volume of air, it improves the efficiency of fuel utilization which improves the power curve significantly from the mid-high rpm range. Why between mid to high and not low? Because the velocity of the air remains nearly identical from low-end. Not only until around the mid range area will the velocity of the air increase significantly due to the absence of the stock obstructions which were utilized for emissions purposes. Remember, we have high compression cars, so we will benefit from a more free flowing intake manifold.

Thanks...

S-A-S-U-K-E

Now git-r-done!!!!
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:52 PM
novaracer wrote:

Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:

04firetec wrote:

Like it said in the inital post, I matched the ports on the manifold to the intake ports on the head. I blended the diameter to the stock diameter at the curve in the runners, where you can no longer reach by conventional means. It definitely made a difference, if only to get rid of the abrupt widening of the port diameter once the air enters the cylinder head. This isn't the only thing I did to the manifold. If you take a look underneath where the throttle body mounts, there's a huge opportunity for flow improvement there. It's a bit difficult to explain exactly what I mean without showing you, but let's just say it has to do with "intrusive" and "ribs"..


only thing is, the abrupt widening creates a wall against the manifold for the intake to pulse against. similar to how the exhaust is.

its helpful on some vehicles to keep low down punch for those that need it. since the valve is not open all the time, air stops. thats all i meant by the gun analogy how velocity is achieved or lost.

air expaning gradually slows it down. but in stock form the velocity is high, then it "shoots" into the intake runner.

not sure how much a difference it feels like cause the runners are still the same size. to get more air in there an increase of the runners, not just what you can see would be necessary. you only flow as much as your smallest point in the runners, and since the full intake manifold runners werent modded, you're technically still flowing the same cfm. extrude honing is one way to try and achieve full runner widening.

just some ideas
sorry event on this subject you are wrong. the eco intake has a bottle neck right at the flange you can see it with the naked eye. and i can tell you that i gained more power from this than from my intake. hands down! i am getting another intake this weekend to split open and and smooth everything out including all the short side radius and no sharp edges.
have you look at the ecotec exhaust manifold? it is even worse the collector is half blocked. i think gm did these restrictions for emissions testing of some sort. now my car with the ported intake and exhaust manifold runs alot better and pulls hard from 3500rpm+ my wife noticed it. nuff said!


not exactly nuff said. you can gain top end but lose low end, it alldepends on what range your car will run.

also you said from 3500+ rpm, you feel it.

did i not just say, which you quoted:

Quote:

its helpful on some vehicles to keep low down punch for those that need it. since the valve is not open all the time, air stops. thats all i meant by the gun analogy how velocity is achieved or lost


last i checked 3500+ isnt considered LOW DOWN PUNCH, thats midrage into top end.

and if your power gain is in that range, which your wife and yourself noticed, did you make your low end worse off for those who have daily drivers. only way to tell is to get a dyno done with a stock manifold and a modified

i know most people --unless on the highway-- arent flooring their cars constantly or driving above 3500+ constantly.

no one is questioning top end, but stop light to stop light requires low end. and yes this is the time when you can waste the most gas, starting froma stop...and usually the time people burn the most gas...when not driving at a constant rate.

as of yet, no one has still done any testing. the jury is still out.


and sasuke, our cars dont run all that rich, only at WOT, yes. the pcm is programmed to keep the car in stoich, which is a balance of rich and lean....right in the middle. thats what the o2 sensor bank 1's job is





Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:16 PM
Thanks Event. That backs up my statements a little better in the aspect of racing.
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:45 PM
I am gonna try this ASAP. I already bought a dremel and 2 different carbide cutters(there is like 10 different ones). I have an extra intake manifold laying here in front of me right now, but it is off of my old engine and has (i think ) oil? or antifreeze? or something on the inside. Any ideas how I could clean this gunky film out where I cant reach with my fingers?

I just wish there was some detailed directions on doing this. I dont know what you are talking about with the stuff that needs cleaned up under the throttle body?

Anyone care to share some info?



2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:29 PM
the funny thing is I have been better gas mileage since i have done this mod but that might have something to do with the switch to summer gas. anyway i use less throttle to get the car moving. i cant Waite to get on the track. i would like to dyno both and i just might in the next month i found a dyno that is cheap 50bucks for three pulls


see ya!

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:53 AM
Well, I've since put on a ported head, 4-2-1 header, full mandrel 2.5" exhaust, so getting dyno'd now won't show these guys any proof of gains from the manifold mods. As for the exhaust manifold, I know exactly what you mean. I checked mine out when I pulled it off, it's pretty restrictive!




Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:26 AM
I just finsihed reading the whole post and now I wondering where to get an extra manifold from anybody! would an 02 eco's manifold fit a 04?


"boobs now with Riboflabin"
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Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:07 PM
i have a spare manifold, head, cams.


you have to stand for something, or you're bound to fall for anything

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:14 PM
Jcavi wrote:

I just finsihed reading the whole post and now I wondering where to get an extra manifold from anybody! would an 02 eco's manifold fit a 04?

it should



Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, May 06, 2005 5:35 AM
I thinking mabye a trip to a junkyard is in order. how hard would it be to find one and most important what am i going to need to rip it out. and does any one have any how to's I love to see a quick one.


"boobs now with Riboflabin"
Image
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, May 06, 2005 3:16 PM
i have a spare one on my back porch if you are interested in it email is in the registry



.




you have to stand for something, or you're bound to fall for anything
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, May 06, 2005 8:47 PM
I started working on mine. All I did so far was enlarge the port where the TB hooks up to match my bored out TB. and ground out the two little ribs on the sides right inside the TB side. Are there any more little ribs in there I should take off now? and on port #1... if I grind that little bump flat will I go through the plastic? I dont want to have to fill anything in.

And when sanding what is the highest grit I should go to? so far I did 600. Is that ok?




2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, May 06, 2005 9:09 PM
ECOTEC wrote:

I started working on mine. All I did so far was enlarge the port where the TB hooks up to match my bored out TB. and ground out the two little ribs on the sides right inside the TB side. Are there any more little ribs in there I should take off now? and on port #1... if I grind that little bump flat will I go through the plastic? I dont want to have to fill anything in.

And when sanding what is the highest grit I should go to? so far I did 600. Is that ok?
i think the highest grit i used was a 120 grit flap wheel. make sure that you get some epoxy to fill that hole, i hear you on not wanting to fill anything but in this case it is better safe than sorry! i will check some junk yards in the morning to see if i can get another intake to go crazy on. I am so busy this time of year it is not funny.


see ya!

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Saturday, May 07, 2005 3:05 PM
So there is no way to sand down that little bump on port 1 without making a hole?




2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Saturday, May 07, 2005 6:31 PM
ECOTEC wrote:

So there is no way to sand down that little bump on port 1 without making a hole?
i was i could see light and the bump was not even gone yet its just where a screw hole is and i just filled the hole and made a nice layer in the port and re flap wheeled it just make sure that you clean the surface well then epoxy it. epoxy it very strong stuff. and that plastic welder epoxy works well in this application no worries


see ya!

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Saturday, May 07, 2005 8:43 PM
I started grinding it down VERY carefully and so far it is almost flat and no hole yet! But incase it does go poke through, exactly what kind of epoxy did you use? Plastic welder epoxy...is that the same as JB weld?

Once I'm finished I will be getting my car dyno'd (finally ) with the stock intake mani and the modified one.

And NOVARACER, You mentioned splitting it open. do you have to cut it apart at the seams, heat it up, or just pull it apart without breakin it?

Thanks for helpin me out on this



2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Saturday, May 07, 2005 11:17 PM
Plastic welder epoxy i would have to look at the manifold again, but i think it would have to be cut open at the seam. and epoxied back together along with 4 screws.


see ya!

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Sunday, May 08, 2005 7:24 PM
ok people...i have ported a manifold along the lines in this thread...opened the ports as far back as can be reached, opened TB neck almost 2mm, removed webbing that shrouds cylinders 1&4. heres my bottom line...more performance. runs through the RPM band much smoother, pulls harder through the entire RPM band. even my fiance says it feels faster. i have noticed a little loss of TQ at part throttle below 2000 rpm. as far as im concerned its a fully legitimate bolt-on, as much so as any intake or exhaust item. its no supercharger but its a good addition to all the other bolt-ons. you guys can debate the details all you want...but the end of it is...it works...period. also interesting to note that the TB opening is only 60mm(tapers down to 55mm) so anyone buying a 62mm TB is going a bit too large...60mm is obviously enough. funny note as well...while out on my test drive after installing the manifold on saturday i ran across a lightly modded celica gt (newer model, 5 speed). we had 2 runs...first one he got a small jump on me(i hesitated, wasnt sure he was gonna run) and sprayed me with a 50 shot (yes i talked with him afterward at a stop light and he told me he had a 50 shot), second run was all motor and i got him by about a car lenght. not bad considering im much heavier and an auto.


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Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:35 PM
this needs a bump anyone notice that the 2.4ho ports are almost the same as the ported eco hummm! i wounder if they are spaced the same? even though the bolt pattern is not even close


see ya!

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, May 20, 2005 2:42 AM
Hmm check it out for us!




Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, June 03, 2005 9:49 AM
so has anyone else done this mod? for a cheap plastic manifold and a few hours, it sounds like decent mod.
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:15 PM
did anyone post of pics of the ported manifold on the throtlebody side yet?


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