So let's look at the 2.3 LO intake manifold then. It was designed for an engine very similar to what Mastin has built with the exception of the 2.3 have better exhaust flow. I am sure if you put a HO mani on a motor tuned for the LO, (yes I know so LOs did come with the HO but they were tuned for it at the factory) it would probably have the same effect. The 2.3 LO had almost everything Mastin has done, .375 cams, 9.5:1 comp, about the same intake flow, the only difference would be the exhaust flow and that can be fixed. Sure for most LD9 owners it wouldn't be necessary but for folks with the mentioned mods it might be helpful, though at this point it may need a tune because its a lot more air moving then it is "supposed" to see. What do ya'll think?
John Higgins wrote:WHITECAVY wrote:Who gives a @!#$ people, the HO mani looks better than the plastic ass stock mani 
Besides you can have your pretty manifold and I will take my pretty stock manifold and walk any N/A 2.4 with a HO manifold. I love the looks of the stock manifold. .
oh ya, any
i recall a 14.8 from u sir, does my 14.7 and a HO mani not count
z yaaaa wrote:the bottom line is, for NA the stock manifold is better, and the venom manifold is better than stock. 
god i wish that were true....
bottom line is thats a lie! so dont say it, plz show me any other n/a 2.4 that is faster than mine, who runs stock manifold vs. me running the 2.3 ho
Damn I havnt been on for a few days, this is awesome though mastin!!! Thanks for getting results, though as said numbers ould vary from vehile depending on mods and tuning. My ar felt lie it pulled harder both times I did the swap though, but its good to see results for a ar with basi boltons. Im keeping mine as I wont be n/a for muh longer
regaurdless, this mod wont seea car any benefits unless heavily modified or tuned to for the higher air flow. it the ld9 flows pretty decent on the intake side as it is with the stock manifold that i dont see the HO manifold giving any improvements one something like this.
personally i think the AFR on the run would have been way off with the larger manifold.
has anyone flow benched the the stock, LO, and HO manifolds? how about the head of an LD9? personally, im not going to be upgrading my manifold anytime soon as i dont see it being any type of a restriction for me unless i get some serious head and cam work done and/or a turbo. the stock manifold flows fine for what i need i for. granted the runners arent that large, but this will provide a higher pressure of the air flowing in the runner. the larger runner of the 2.3 manifold will provide more air flow, but less pressure.
like i said, for the time being my stock manifold flows enough air for what the engine requires and i dont see it being worth the time and effort for the gain that i might get with a good tune.
1997 RedR - ZedR
also people saying good tune, i wish i had a good tune on mine with the HO mani then id really have something to be against this, right now only thing hpt was used for was to, change my injectors to 320cc's and to up my revs, i dont have my wideband yet so i havent touched fuel. if i had an actual tune up and going some better results would have came out. i still love my HO mani
Quote:
oh ya, any i recall a 14.8 from u sir, does my 14.7 and a HO mani not count
Never said it did not count. You want to compare lets. YOu ran that with bigger injectors and HPT (I realize you say no fuel tuning). I ran mine on stock injectors, no HPT at all, HPT was not even around for J's when I did this first time.
Quote:
bottom line is thats a lie! so dont say it, plz show me any other n/a 2.4 that is faster than mine, who runs stock manifold vs. me running the 2.3 ho
I would be willing to bet my car will out run your car. I now have bigger injectors and HPT as well a few other mods to go along. I think I have you covered. If not no big deal. Still you are 1 guy with a factory 2.4 with a HO manifold running good times. There is more guys with stock manifolds running decent or good times then guys with HO manifolds running decent or good times. Same goes for the plug wire swap. How many people with it running decent or good times, or great times? Look at me on stock coils right near the top of that list. I know this all sounds cocky, but I have said for years some of these mods are not what people thought they were. We are now seeing that, but yet some people still want to believe it is the bomb. People BUTT dyno's suck!!!!
FU Tuning
gmanz24 wrote:also people saying good tune, i wish i had a good tune on mine with the HO mani then id really have something to be against this, right now only thing hpt was used for was to, change my injectors to 320cc's and to up my revs, i dont have my wideband yet so i havent touched fuel. if i had an actual tune up and going some better results would have came out. i still love my HO mani
key word.... increased rev limiter...... the HO manifold (in theory) wont give u midrange gains over the stock one.....the runners are too large, but with a rev limiter set to 7k and a full exhaust the HO MIGHT show some gains up top
_________________________________________________________________
EFFICIENCY DETECTIVE
Fast cars. I respect them ALL. Brand elitism is for fanbois and benchracers
daily: 99 civic Si
deceased: 95 cavy '00 LD9 auto swap (vandalized)
Quote:
Your track times don't mean jack in this discusion. There are 10 times more variables in track times than in the dyno reults.
............... took the words right out of my mouth...............
"Go Before Show Yo."
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I HAVE ALWAYS pushed this fact, the HO mani was NEVER meant for our cars. BUT the LO mani will perform much better ! (smaller runners, smaller plenum = more velocity. Not to mention that the 2.3 LO had next to identical characteristics to our motors power wise.) AND a member here dynoed a gain with it. The HO mani is just to large, and the stock motors demand just is not enough.
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
Well my e-dick is bigger than your e-dick. so take that.
Im glad someone decided to actualy test one but i still think it wold have done better if the comp had a chance to learn. Not saying it would make more power than the stock one. Afterall it was designed for more RPM than the stock program on a 2.4L. On a stock head I can deffinately see how it wouldnt help.
WTF is up with that gasket? You didnt run it like that did you??
Short Hand wrote:I HAVE ALWAYS pushed this fact, the HO mani was NEVER meant for our cars. BUT the LO mani will perform much better ! (smaller runners, smaller plenum = more velocity. Not to mention that the 2.3 LO had next to identical characteristics to our motors power wise.) AND a member here dynoed a gain with it. The HO mani is just to large, and the stock motors demand just is not enough.
I wish dude would have actually showed us some kind of support for that... i don't think the minor change in the LO vs HO design would be that different (he "dynoed" 11 hp increase) but even if the LO only broke even or lose of 1-2 hp it would still be worth it to a lot of people. Even if it lost 20hp plenty of people would still do it just for the looks, or do it for the future they plan in there car. I for one did the swap to a LO and noticed a slower time because of it, but there were variables, it wasnt port matched, the temp was up 25 degrees over last run, the humidity was 30% higher, and the barometer was lower, all of which will play effect in track times and dyno runs. Now Mastin did his on the same day within relatively close time span so those shouldnt have been an issue.
hmmmm...interesting.
It's good to see that someone finally decided to see whether the swap was worth it or not. What everyone needs to understand though, is that these results should not be regarded as God. They are, however, clear cut proof that with the current mods on MASTIN's MOTOR, a hinderence to making horsepower. Someone with the exact same mods could very well show a gain.
Kudos to Mastin and all of those involved. I'm very glad to see dyno results for this finally.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
so as for someone who has a fully built motor and all the proper tuning should i use the H.O mani i have on there or go back to the stock one... i dont care what it looks like i just want to go fast!!!!!! I know this is a major debate, but with a fully built motor what is best guess?
www.rdracing.110mb.com
Robert Williams wrote:so as for someone who has a fully built motor and all the proper tuning should i use the H.O mani i have on there or go back to the stock one... i dont care what it looks like i just want to go fast!!!!!! I know this is a major debate, but with a fully built motor what is best guess?
what is ur current redline? (the higher it is, the more likely the HO is a good match)
personally i would say LO......i have always went with the LO manifold.... but you cant say for sure until u dyno all three
_________________________________________________________________
EFFICIENCY DETECTIVE
Fast cars. I respect them ALL. Brand elitism is for fanbois and benchracers
daily: 99 civic Si
deceased: 95 cavy '00 LD9 auto swap (vandalized)
Quote:
so as for someone who has a fully built motor and all the proper tuning should i use the H.O mani i have on there or go back to the stock one... i dont care what it looks like i just want to go fast!!!!!! I know this is a major debate, but with a fully built motor what is best guess?
I would say the 3 factors are:
1) redline
2) compresion
3) Cam lift over .400
Otherwise not worthwhile.
Just look at the specs on the 2.3 H.O., if your not similar= not worth it.
"Go Before Show Yo."
CARCUSTOMS.NET, THE BEST SERVICE ON THE ORG!!!
Gameoverracing. wrote:Quote:
so as for someone who has a fully built motor and all the proper tuning should i use the H.O mani i have on there or go back to the stock one... i dont care what it looks like i just want to go fast!!!!!! I know this is a major debate, but with a fully built motor what is best guess?
I would say the 3 factors are:
1) redline
2) compresion
3) Cam lift over .400
Otherwise not worthwhile.
Just look at the specs on the 2.3 H.O., if your not similar= not worth it.
compression doesnt matter when it comes to flow.... ur wondering outside the system which is intake, head, and exhuast....... same negative pressure is created on the down-stroke of the piston
_________________________________________________________________
EFFICIENCY DETECTIVE
Fast cars. I respect them ALL. Brand elitism is for fanbois and benchracers
daily: 99 civic Si
deceased: 95 cavy '00 LD9 auto swap (vandalized)
compression affects exhausting durring overlap of the cams.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
delslo9 wrote:Gameoverracing. wrote:Quote:
so as for someone who has a fully built motor and all the proper tuning should i use the H.O mani i have on there or go back to the stock one... i dont care what it looks like i just want to go fast!!!!!! I know this is a major debate, but with a fully built motor what is best guess?
I would say the 3 factors are:
1) redline
2) compresion
3) Cam lift over .400
Otherwise not worthwhile.
Just look at the specs on the 2.3 H.O., if your not similar= not worth it.
compression doesnt matter when it comes to flow.... ur wondering outside the system which is intake, head, and exhuast....... same negative pressure is created on the down-stroke of the piston
you sure about that, brah?
if you have higher compression, that means you are compressing more, right? that means you suck in more, and compress more, and you let out more exhaust. key examples are boost and stroker kits.....although boost is called artificial compression by some....
still remains that compression is related to how much something flows. if you are compressing more, it means you are flowing more.
i;d say flow matters just off of basic correlation principles.
and thats related directly to intake, head (combustion chamber) and exhaust.
Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:delslo9 wrote:Gameoverracing. wrote:Quote:
so as for someone who has a fully built motor and all the proper tuning should i use the H.O mani i have on there or go back to the stock one... i dont care what it looks like i just want to go fast!!!!!! I know this is a major debate, but with a fully built motor what is best guess?
I would say the 3 factors are:
1) redline
2) compresion
3) Cam lift over .400
Otherwise not worthwhile.
Just look at the specs on the 2.3 H.O., if your not similar= not worth it.
compression doesnt matter when it comes to flow.... ur wondering outside the system which is intake, head, and exhuast....... same negative pressure is created on the down-stroke of the piston
you sure about that, brah?
if you have higher compression, that means you are compressing more, right? that means you suck in more, and compress more, and you let out more exhaust. key examples are boost and stroker kits.....although boost is called artificial compression by some....
still remains that compression is related to how much something flows. if you are compressing more, it means you are flowing more.
i;d say flow matters just off of basic correlation principles.
and thats related directly to intake, head (combustion chamber) and exhaust.
Sorry to burst you bubble Event, but that's not entirely correct. Higher compression does not directly equate to more air and more exhaust. Higher compression as a closed system (constant mass) uses the same amount of air and compresses it to a smaller volume than what is stock. The reason boost simulates this is because you are compressing more air in a given area (I.E. the dynamic compression raises). You are more correct with saying that you will exhaust more, as the volume in the cylinder near TDC will be smaller than usual, but high compression in and of itself does not change the volume displaced of the motor, which means it doesn't "suck" in more air. The higher compression will expell more exhaust, and perhaps the exhaust velocity will draw in more air into the motor.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Quote:
The higher compression will expell more exhaust, and perhaps the exhaust velocity will draw in more air into the motor.
... and this is why I listed it as a factor, its too late to explain any further.... if no one agrees thats cool.
"Go Before Show Yo."
CARCUSTOMS.NET, THE BEST SERVICE ON THE ORG!!!
Gameoverracing. wrote:Quote:
The higher compression will expell more exhaust, and perhaps the exhaust velocity will draw in more air into the motor.
... and this is why I listed it as a factor, its too late to explain any further.... if no one agrees thats cool.
Read what I first wrote. I was defending you, but I felt the need to explain to Event why it is the case, as the way he explained it was a bit skewed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, November 22, 2007 10:34 PM
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
everything ive said and stated in here was to keep this from becoming the end all tell all that one mani is better than the other. some people in this thread are now so far over the edge believing that the 2.4 one is better and i dont believe it is. yes for a stockish air path its hurting, so all u out there with wire loom and nothing else, stay away from the HO mani as ur mod of choice. but those that plan on a bit more, we will just have to see now wont we
.
also john i wasnt trying to take a stab at you, i was just getting out there that i am an n/a 2.4 with a 2.3 ho mani that has surpassed ur time. and believe me when the track opens next yr i wont be sitting in the same seat i am now, secret cams are out, HO are goin in, im gonna make use of my HO mani
as well as a few other things. hopefully u can give me a little nudge and motivation to go faster
gmanz24 wrote:everything ive said and stated in here was to keep this from becoming the end all tell all that one mani is better than the other. some people in this thread are now so far over the edge believing that the 2.4 one is better and i dont believe it is. yes for a stockish air path its hurting, so all u out there with wire loom and nothing else, stay away from the HO mani as ur mod of choice. but those that plan on a bit more, we will just have to see now wont we .
also john i wasnt trying to take a stab at you, i was just getting out there that i am an n/a 2.4 with a 2.3 ho mani that has surpassed ur time. and believe me when the track opens next yr i wont be sitting in the same seat i am now, secret cams are out, HO are goin in, im gonna make use of my HO mani as well as a few other things. hopefully u can give me a little nudge and motivation to go faster
You need to look at this mod how 90% of the people will use it for. A simple bolt on. As a simple bolt on it is not good. Also we still do not know that it helps on your type of set-up either. I realize you have good times, but it could be many reasons for that. I agree more dyno's should be done but simple fact is people on this site are cheap/lazy/whatever you want to call it.
I did not take it you were making a stab. Yes you have better times than me. I'm glad you did. It took a few years for someone to do it. Expect some better times to beat in a couple weeks (before the end of the year).
FU Tuning
Quote:
Read what I first wrote. I was defending you, but I felt the need to explain to Event why it is the case, as the way he explained it was a bit skewed.
Yeah, I agree with you, thanks for the supporting explaination.... it was too late for me to write it out (too late at night)
"Go Before Show Yo."
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