Mike85220 wrote:I did tell Trifecta to e-mail when some progress is done on the 03-04 Ecotec project.

I will update when information or updates come in.

I'm pretty sure that the 02 is different than the 03 and 04 programming wise.

I think he said that they already have programming for the 05, I do know that the 05 programming is different.

All programming is the same lol i throw the bs flag up.

Quote:

All programming is the same lol i throw the bs flag up.

Then you are calling Trifecta a liar, I don't make up stuff.

I am told there are differences in the programming, and if there isn't then they already have the 03 programming of which I should be getting an e-mail soon saying it is available.

The Ecotec of 2002 'is' different and I forgot what the physical difference was, but it stands to reason the programming 'is' different.




2003 Sunfire with a 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator (bigger to make up for the baffling), a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/4 inch down-pipe, a ported LSJ manifold, a drop in K&N filtercharger and sports a Bomber body kit with a VIS Invader hood.

programming = ve tables, spark tables, and all other tables used to make the vehicle run......

hence the same.........

Ive ran about 4 different pcms, 2002 pcm from my car (Stock)
2x 2003 auto cav pcm converted
2005 cav pcm currently used.


only difference between any of them are the 02 had extra spark tables for alcohol but it doesn't matter since the tables were blank...

they may do more than just that, doesn't meant its a rip off. There are DHP PCM's available for Grand am GT 3400's that change the tables for intake/exhaust improve shifting, etc. and people over on granamgt.com swear by them and have lots of results proving they work this seems like a similar set-up to me...

but ...i dont know for sure and would like some proof.

Will Paulman wrote:they may do more than just that, doesn't meant its a rip off. There are DHP PCM's available for Grand am GT 3400's that change the tables for intake/exhaust improve shifting, etc. and people over on granamgt.com swear by them and have lots of results proving they work this seems like a similar set-up to me...

but ...i dont know for sure and would like some proof.

you can change shift points for auto yes....and what are you talking about intake/exhaust.

Trust the FACTS.

1. increasing rev limiter....to be honest for a full exhaust and intake on a j, 6500 is still too high lol.

2. Tuning spark and fuel tables without data or logs is just plain stupid....PERIOD.

3. Slight alterations to tables don't always equal sucess..

4. mail order tunes to me are as effective as the IAT resistor "MOD" lol

5. If you are only running slight mods why alter any tables at all? and you won't get increased gas mileage without touching fuel tables...( you already have exhaust and intake that is the most you can do for your mpg as far as simple bolt ons go)

save your money and get some suspension mods...

I'm not poking fun at anyone just being honest and trying to help the misled.

Vega is mostly right... there are a few things i half heartedly agree with that you said, but in the end its true, mail order tunes are not as good as a custom tune.

for $250, im sure you can find some one with HPT and a WBO2 that will do a street tune for you. not all tunes need to be done on a dyno, but the dyno does help in measuring the gains had. in the end, the reason HPT is worth the money IMO is the data logger. if HPT was just a cable that you plugged in and blindly changed some tables without knowing what your doing, then i wouldnt trust it anymore than the resistor IAT mod (a little extreme, but you get the point).

like i said, its the data logger that makes HPT worth the money. you could always pay some one who knows what they are doing to do it for you. just keep in mind its $100 just to unlock your VIN to be ABLE to tune your car.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

I passed this thread info on to Vince. I can't say with certainty that he will have time to reply, however given the interest, it seems that further info from him directly may be needed.

Hey guys, just wanted to drop in and say hi.

We haven't gone any further then talking to a few people about offering tunes for the J-body ecotec via mail order. Much research has to be done - can we offer a high quality product? Is there a market for the product? Can we get enough people to test it? There may be specific things about this series of engine that will make doing a canned tune very difficult (e.g. whether there is a MAF or not).

So, we'll keep working on it and keep people posted.

Here is the advertisement for the DHP PCM I was talking about, its only $99 after the core charge return, guys on GAGT swear by it and have ran better times with it as well, can't pull any info from the site right now because its down, but I would like to see something similar to this if it gives good gains, obviously wount get anything transmission wise since mine is a 5 speed.

any thoughts on this?

Available for 1999-2005 Pontiac Grand AM SE/GT and developed with the average 3.4L V6 enthusiast in mind, this PCM has been designed and dynamometer tested and proven for the following modifications:
Cold air induction system (any brand)
Cat-back exhaust system (any brand)
Premium fuel (91 octane or higher is required)
If you have more aggressive modifications (such as a camshaft) done to your vehicle, please consult with us prior to purchasing this product
NOTE: This vehicle requires a Security Relearn Procedure for proper installation. See below for instructions.

FEATURES:

Speed limiter removed
3-1 and 4-2 skip shifts
Transmission line pressure increased
Shift points moved (5800-6000rpms)
Fan turn on points altered as follows:
186 degree F Turn On
Fuel/spark adjustments as follows:
Enrichens fuel delivery for critical problem areas
Provides a consistent power gain across the entire power band
Reduces spark retard (knock retard)
Dynamometer testing has shown up to an 6 to 10 HP gain in 60 degree temperatures on a development vehicle using 93 octane fuel.

This is nothing more than a Rice Boy Tune, they might as well be calling it a "Chip"
Wait now we can been like all the Cobalt kiddies who are gaining 30hp from raising their rev limiter on stock 2.2s to 8500rpm?


___________________________________________________________________

Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Downpipe w/ Cutout | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

BlackEco wrote:This is nothing more than a Rice Boy Tune, they might as well be calling it a "Chip"
Wait now we can been like all the Cobalt kiddies who are gaining 30hp from raising their rev limiter on stock 2.2s to 8500rpm?

Isn't that a little harsh? It's not like the stock fuel/spark parameteres are operating near maximum tolerances, and having a true high octane spark map might actually gain a few hp. I don't know whats going on with the cobalts, but no one said anything about 30hp gain or 8500rpm here.

If you check out mail order tunes for the kappa platform, you'll see there's a lot to gain - look up vector motorsports, pcmforless, westers garage.

Yes every car is different, but most of these companies do research on a test car to generate some safe yet effective parameters. Its not a complete waste...

Will Paulman wrote:Here is the advertisement for the DHP PCM I was talking about, its only $99 after the core charge return, guys on GAGT swear by it and have ran better times with it as well, can't pull any info from the site right now because its down, but I would like to see something similar to this if it gives good gains, obviously wount get anything transmission wise since mine is a 5 speed.

any thoughts on this?

Available for 1999-2005 Pontiac Grand AM SE/GT and developed with the average 3.4L V6 enthusiast in mind, this PCM has been designed and dynamometer tested and proven for the following modifications:
Cold air induction system (any brand)
Cat-back exhaust system (any brand)
Premium fuel (91 octane or higher is required)
If you have more aggressive modifications (such as a camshaft) done to your vehicle, please consult with us prior to purchasing this product
NOTE: This vehicle requires a Security Relearn Procedure for proper installation. See below for instructions.

FEATURES:

Speed limiter removed
3-1 and 4-2 skip shifts
Transmission line pressure increased
Shift points moved (5800-6000rpms)
Fan turn on points altered as follows:

186 degree F Turn On
Fuel/spark adjustments as follows:
Enrichens fuel delivery for critical problem areas
Provides a consistent power gain across the entire power band
Reduces spark retard (knock retard)

Dynamometer testing has shown up to an 6 to 10 HP gain in 60 degree temperatures on a development vehicle using 93 octane fuel.

THIS "TUNE" IS NONE SENSE. finally me and blackeco agree lol.

what crucial fuel areas do stock ecos have? lol if it was crucial gm would have taken care of it. you can reduce your own spark retard yourself by not running 87 lol simple.

another point is how can they say they reduce spark retard when all vehicles are different and retard timing when necessary.... WHEN WILL COMPANIES STOP THIS UNIVERSAL TUNE GARBAGE.

and again you can't provide power gains without fueling and spark adjustments....and any adjustments of the two without logging isn't smart for starters and second off again you have an inline 4, without boost or a n/a build, its damn near worthless to alter the stock tune.
Again its not worth it to waste good money on that non sense, spend your money on hpt or suspension and not Bull@!#$.

oldskool wrote:

BlackEco wrote:This is nothing more than a Rice Boy Tune, they might as well be calling it a "Chip"
Wait now we can been like all the Cobalt kiddies who are gaining 30hp from raising their rev limiter on stock 2.2s to 8500rpm?

Isn't that a little harsh? It's not like the stock fuel/spark parameteres are operating near maximum tolerances, and having a true high octane spark map might actually gain a few hp. I don't know whats going on with the cobalts, but no one said anything about 30hp gain or 8500rpm here.

If you check out mail order tunes for the kappa platform, you'll see there's a lot to gain - look up vector motorsports, pcmforless, westers garage.

Yes every car is different, but most of these companies do research on a test car to generate some safe yet effective parameters. Its not a complete waste...

I have done high octane spark tuning and put it on the dyno. It netted jack squat HP and like 3ftlb tq at 1500 RPMs.
I'm yet to see any more actual proof to validate claims of "gaining 10hp" I have been waiting 2 years for someone to prove this wrong, honestly it would be nice to believe its possible, but I don't believe in fairy-tails or pray for my car to magically become faster every night.

The most aggressive spark tuning one might expect to net 10hp is certainly not going have universally "safe yet effective parameters."


___________________________________________________________________

Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Downpipe w/ Cutout | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

K. Vega..Mr. M62 L61 himself. wrote:

Will Paulman wrote:Here is the advertisement for the DHP PCM I was talking about, its only $99 after the core charge return, guys on GAGT swear by it and have ran better times with it as well, can't pull any info from the site right now because its down, but I would like to see something similar to this if it gives good gains, obviously wount get anything transmission wise since mine is a 5 speed.

any thoughts on this?

Available for 1999-2005 Pontiac Grand AM SE/GT and developed with the average 3.4L V6 enthusiast in mind, this PCM has been designed and dynamometer tested and proven for the following modifications:
Cold air induction system (any brand)
Cat-back exhaust system (any brand)
Premium fuel (91 octane or higher is required)
If you have more aggressive modifications (such as a camshaft) done to your vehicle, please consult with us prior to purchasing this product
NOTE: This vehicle requires a Security Relearn Procedure for proper installation. See below for instructions.

FEATURES:

Speed limiter removed
3-1 and 4-2 skip shifts
Transmission line pressure increased
Shift points moved (5800-6000rpms)
Fan turn on points altered as follows:

186 degree F Turn On
Fuel/spark adjustments as follows:
Enrichens fuel delivery for critical problem areas
Provides a consistent power gain across the entire power band
Reduces spark retard (knock retard)

Dynamometer testing has shown up to an 6 to 10 HP gain in 60 degree temperatures on a development vehicle using 93 octane fuel.

THIS "TUNE" IS NONE SENSE. finally me and blackeco agree lol.

what crucial fuel areas do stock ecos have? lol if it was crucial gm would have taken care of it. you can reduce your own spark retard yourself by not running 87 lol simple.

another point is how can they say they reduce spark retard when all vehicles are different and retard timing when necessary.... WHEN WILL COMPANIES STOP THIS UNIVERSAL TUNE GARBAGE.

and again you can't provide power gains without fueling and spark adjustments....and any adjustments of the two without logging isn't smart for starters and second off again you have an inline 4, without boost or a n/a build, its damn near worthless to alter the stock tune.
Again its not worth it to waste good money on that non sense, spend your money on hpt or suspension and not Bull@!#$.

still then your saying buying ur car stock was useless... gm canned a tune for 03, 04, 05. each car isnt different and tuned differently, gm built your car with a canned tune and there was nothing wrong with it. yes there can be improvements via dyno tuning but there is nothing wrong with a canned tune to pull a bit more power for increased air flow. there are plenty of people out that that dont want hpt, they dont tune, they dont wanna dyno, nothing, they just want to slap on some bolt ons and now if this comp was available they would want that to back up their bolt ons.



also throwing stones at this canned tune is dumb for reasons of not throwing stones for everything and anything created for our cars, any of our headers are "canned" any intake, springs, struts, whatever. you think that weapon r header is perfect for YOUR motor then at the same time perfect for MINE? wtf i cant believe u didnt go buy a welder, they are only 500, then some metal and build ur own header.... same sh*t different toilet.

gmanz24 wrote:

K. Vega..Mr. M62 L61 himself. wrote:

Will Paulman wrote:Here is the advertisement for the DHP PCM I was talking about, its only $99 after the core charge return, guys on GAGT swear by it and have ran better times with it as well, can't pull any info from the site right now because its down, but I would like to see something similar to this if it gives good gains, obviously wount get anything transmission wise since mine is a 5 speed.

any thoughts on this?

Available for 1999-2005 Pontiac Grand AM SE/GT and developed with the average 3.4L V6 enthusiast in mind, this PCM has been designed and dynamometer tested and proven for the following modifications:
Cold air induction system (any brand)
Cat-back exhaust system (any brand)
Premium fuel (91 octane or higher is required)
If you have more aggressive modifications (such as a camshaft) done to your vehicle, please consult with us prior to purchasing this product
NOTE: This vehicle requires a Security Relearn Procedure for proper installation. See below for instructions.

FEATURES:

Speed limiter removed
3-1 and 4-2 skip shifts
Transmission line pressure increased
Shift points moved (5800-6000rpms)
Fan turn on points altered as follows:

186 degree F Turn On
Fuel/spark adjustments as follows:
Enrichens fuel delivery for critical problem areas
Provides a consistent power gain across the entire power band
Reduces spark retard (knock retard)

Dynamometer testing has shown up to an 6 to 10 HP gain in 60 degree temperatures on a development vehicle using 93 octane fuel.

THIS "TUNE" IS NONE SENSE. finally me and blackeco agree lol.

what crucial fuel areas do stock ecos have? lol if it was crucial gm would have taken care of it. you can reduce your own spark retard yourself by not running 87 lol simple.

another point is how can they say they reduce spark retard when all vehicles are different and retard timing when necessary.... WHEN WILL COMPANIES STOP THIS UNIVERSAL TUNE GARBAGE.

and again you can't provide power gains without fueling and spark adjustments....and any adjustments of the two without logging isn't smart for starters and second off again you have an inline 4, without boost or a n/a build, its damn near worthless to alter the stock tune.
Again its not worth it to waste good money on that non sense, spend your money on hpt or suspension and not Bull@!#$.

still then your saying buying ur car stock was useless... gm canned a tune for 03, 04, 05. each car isnt different and tuned differently, gm built your car with a canned tune and there was nothing wrong with it. yes there can be improvements via dyno tuning but there is nothing wrong with a canned tune to pull a bit more power for increased air flow. there are plenty of people out that that dont want hpt, they dont tune, they dont wanna dyno, nothing, they just want to slap on some bolt ons and now if this comp was available they would want that to back up their bolt ons.



also throwing stones at this canned tune is dumb for reasons of not throwing stones for everything and anything created for our cars, any of our headers are "canned" any intake, springs, struts, whatever. you think that weapon r header is perfect for YOUR motor then at the same time perfect for MINE? wtf i cant believe u didnt go buy a welder, they are only 500, then some metal and build ur own header.... same sh*t different toilet.

Really, just how does this canned tune "backup their bolt ons." You know what also backs up their bolt ons?
Taking all the cash out of wallet and sending it to me and K. Vega in the mail.
Then I will say my magic 10hp prayer and sacrifice a goat, so that their bolt-ons can be "backed up."

SORRY FOLKS : LIMIT ONE 10HP PRAYER PER CAR! No Personal Checks Accepted.

If you get into the car after I say the prayer and don't feel 10hp gain on the butt dyno, just have FAITH that it is there and working, because I said so.


___________________________________________________________________

Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Downpipe w/ Cutout | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

gmanz24 wrote:

K. Vega..Mr. M62 L61 himself. wrote:

Will Paulman wrote:Here is the advertisement for the DHP PCM I was talking about, its only $99 after the core charge return, guys on GAGT swear by it and have ran better times with it as well, can't pull any info from the site right now because its down, but I would like to see something similar to this if it gives good gains, obviously wount get anything transmission wise since mine is a 5 speed.

any thoughts on this?

Available for 1999-2005 Pontiac Grand AM SE/GT and developed with the average 3.4L V6 enthusiast in mind, this PCM has been designed and dynamometer tested and proven for the following modifications:
Cold air induction system (any brand)
Cat-back exhaust system (any brand)
Premium fuel (91 octane or higher is required)
If you have more aggressive modifications (such as a camshaft) done to your vehicle, please consult with us prior to purchasing this product
NOTE: This vehicle requires a Security Relearn Procedure for proper installation. See below for instructions.

FEATURES:

Speed limiter removed
3-1 and 4-2 skip shifts
Transmission line pressure increased
Shift points moved (5800-6000rpms)
Fan turn on points altered as follows:

186 degree F Turn On
Fuel/spark adjustments as follows:
Enrichens fuel delivery for critical problem areas
Provides a consistent power gain across the entire power band
Reduces spark retard (knock retard)

Dynamometer testing has shown up to an 6 to 10 HP gain in 60 degree temperatures on a development vehicle using 93 octane fuel.

THIS "TUNE" IS NONE SENSE. finally me and blackeco agree lol.

what crucial fuel areas do stock ecos have? lol if it was crucial gm would have taken care of it. you can reduce your own spark retard yourself by not running 87 lol simple.

another point is how can they say they reduce spark retard when all vehicles are different and retard timing when necessary.... WHEN WILL COMPANIES STOP THIS UNIVERSAL TUNE GARBAGE.

and again you can't provide power gains without fueling and spark adjustments....and any adjustments of the two without logging isn't smart for starters and second off again you have an inline 4, without boost or a n/a build, its damn near worthless to alter the stock tune.
Again its not worth it to waste good money on that non sense, spend your money on hpt or suspension and not Bull@!#$.

still then your saying buying ur car stock was useless... gm canned a tune for 03, 04, 05. each car isnt different and tuned differently, gm built your car with a canned tune and there was nothing wrong with it. yes there can be improvements via dyno tuning but there is nothing wrong with a canned tune to pull a bit more power for increased air flow. there are plenty of people out that that dont want hpt, they dont tune, they dont wanna dyno, nothing, they just want to slap on some bolt ons and now if this comp was available they would want that to back up their bolt ons.



also throwing stones at this canned tune is dumb for reasons of not throwing stones for everything and anything created for our cars, any of our headers are "canned" any intake, springs, struts, whatever. you think that weapon r header is perfect for YOUR motor then at the same time perfect for MINE? wtf i cant believe u didnt go buy a welder, they are only 500, then some metal and build ur own header.... same sh*t different toilet.

lol I don't even have to justify myself in defense all im going to say is....get tuning software and you will see the light..period the end. which is why blackeco is on the same level as I am.

I won't be that cold allow me to shed some light, Canned tunes as you call them are ok for a stock car. Gm made a car with conservation on the mind for the sole purpose of running the same programming on thousands of cars. At the same time they are the creators of the vehicles and have put the cars through numerous testing. Now when you change these properties without data to give you feedback, its likes playing pin the tail on the donkey without the blindfold...Whats the point?

Playing with fueling and timing = Differences in egts, detonation, and a number of other issues that without logging can result in issues.

Let's use rsm for example they provided an actual pcm with their set ups and do you know what the logs of that bull@!#$ looks like? exactly what it is bull@!#$.

now i use rsm only to give an example of a company who made same claims and promises as alot of companies do.

2. What power are you going to unlock on a car that is out of breathe before its rev limiter without actual MODS beyond baby bolt ons?

Would you like to see another example of where canned tunes don't work out for the best?
check out the eco post with issues all surrounding spark problems and what not from different people all running the universal "canned" gm reflash.

I or Airtonics haven't experienced those issues....why? I'm not running the reflash rather running a tune CUSTOM to the application.

Stop the non sense of worshipping this bull@!#$, you want real tuning, you want real power and REAL results?
Buy gm's race head, comp cams, full exhaust and then come out to see myself or blackeco to unlock power

If you just want a buttdyno feeling of "Hitting ECO-TECH" then by all means go for it.... lol

^^^^^^ But what if this tune modifies ECO-TECH Controller TORQUE-DAMPNER TIMING REDUCTIONS MAPS? That way ECO-TECH delays to 6000 RPM but with higher Rev. Limiter it will pull twice as hard from 6-8k?!? It would be like purchasing stand-alone ECO-TECH controller but only half the cost.


___________________________________________________________________

Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Downpipe w/ Cutout | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

K. Vega..Mr. M62 L61 himself. wrote:
Stop the non sense of worshipping this bull@!#$, you want real tuning, you want real power and REAL results?
Buy gm's race head, comp cams, full exhaust and then come out to see myself or blackeco to unlock power

Honestly, if i was in that situation and you really stood by your work (meaning you blow up my car with your tune then you fix it), Id gladly give you 250 to tune the car.

I don't think anyone is trying to say this is the end-all of tuning a bolt-on J, no one is worshipping it, but its not necessarily the piece of @!#$ that you make it out to be. Somebody from Trifecta needs to post up some proof of results, some generic mpg gains, an example of a specific parameter change or something.

I've seen over and over again the results of a canned tune in the kappa world - there are measured gains in power and economy, but i acknowledge that is different. Regardless, what can you say but GM's stock tune sucks? Clearimage hosts a controlled experiment with different headers, differernt octane and modified vs stock ECU params...guess what? In every case the modified ECU produced more power. Its not 30whp, maybe 5whp, but what do you expect for canned?

I am going to pee myself if this gets any funnier.... This "mail order tune" is a waste.. Save your money and buy some stickers, they have netted more HP..

End of story...



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

oldskool wrote:

K. Vega..Mr. M62 L61 himself. wrote:
Stop the non sense of worshipping this bull@!#$, you want real tuning, you want real power and REAL results?
Buy gm's race head, comp cams, full exhaust and then come out to see myself or blackeco to unlock power

Honestly, if i was in that situation and you really stood by your work (meaning you blow up my car with your tune then you fix it), Id gladly give you 250 to tune the car.

I don't think anyone is trying to say this is the end-all of tuning a bolt-on J, no one is worshipping it, but its not necessarily the piece of @!#$ that you make it out to be. Somebody from Trifecta needs to post up some proof of results, some generic mpg gains, an example of a specific parameter change or something.

I've seen over and over again the results of a canned tune in the kappa world - there are measured gains in power and economy, but i acknowledge that is different. Regardless, what can you say but GM's stock tune sucks? Clearimage hosts a controlled experiment with different headers, differernt octane and modified vs stock ECU params...guess what? In every case the modified ECU produced more power. Its not 30whp, maybe 5whp, but what do you expect for canned?

I do stand behind my word, you take a trip out to Jersey and I have no problem helping out another fellow J. In fact I know of a few guys who were willing to lend a helping hand to closer J members and no one stepped forward.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66120&highlight=dhp+gains

here is link to the Grand am Gt website, yeah its not j-body but it does discuss gains they saw with a generic tune, different company than trifecta but it is a mial order pcm and it lloks like a lot of guys there gained .2 in the 1/4 mile. I am not trying to agree or disagree with anyone here, but i am trying to find out why they can get gains from a generic tune and we can't? Does it have to do with OBDII?

All I know is I go to both websites for information because I own a GAGT and a Eco Sunfire. One tells me mail order tunes CAN work (deosn't mean the trifecta one will be any good, what I am saying is that you can get significant gains from a generic tune if done correctly) the other (here) tells me they dont do anything.

If someone could please shed some light on why they are running faster 1/4 mile times with a generic tune but it wont do anything for us please let everyone know.

i personally would like to see some dyno results from trifecta. I want them to make a pcm, and then find the car it was made for off the street, install the pcm (no custom tuning) and dyno it to show what it can do, hell if they werent so far away I'd let them use my car, and if it did anything I would buy it then and there

YOU CANNOT GAUGE PERFORMANCE GAINS BY TWO TENTHS DIFFERENCE IN THE QUARTER MILE.


What you need to use is a G-tech, then you could give us some accurate results.




___________________________________________________________________

Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Downpipe w/ Cutout | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

if your runs were on average .2 quicker with a new mod done to your car, it would seem that the mod was the result wouldn't it? how can you not guage an increase in performance by that?

atmospheric temperature changes, barometric pressure, and tire temperature changes can make up .2 in the 1/4 mile. now if you ran the stock ecu one pass and then the mail ordered tune ecu the second pass while all other variables remained as close as possible... then you might have a chance at proving it was the ecu that made the difference.

can a mail order generic tune make improvements? yes. its been proven, just look at the Edge and Bulley Dog tunes and hand held programmers for pickups.

will a generic tune out perform a custom tune? not a chance.
will it be safer? nope.
will it be more expensive? depends whose doing it...

ever car has different tolerances for what they will take for timing, rev limiter, TM removal, etc. if you can get a car to operate in its sweet spot then you can make some good and safe power. flirt too much with things like timing, TM, and KR and you could be out a motor...

so in the end... do mail order tunes work? yes. are they worth it? no. for an extra $100-150 you can get a custom tune meant for your car.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH