Modding the suspension for more travel.... - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 10:10 AM
hey guys been driving this pos for awhile now on dspecs and tenzos and i absolutely effing hate the ride. the tenzos are just far too light for the car's weight so i have to set the struts to full stiff just so it doesnt feel like a damn bouncing ball while driving. which in turn also makes it ride like ish because the struts are set on balls to the walls.

im fairly confident a set of sportlines will fix this issue... which i did just pick up... however, i believe i want more.

so, what about effectivly changing the locations as to where the bottoms of the struts mount? this would change the amount of travel the struts then have allowing for a better ride. correct?

ideas on how to do this? i really dont like the idea of cutting the strut body apart then welding the brackets back on with the gas inside the strut tubes. i realise koni yellows would make this easy but i dont have koni yellows, i have dspecs.

for the fronts i believe just a simple aluminum sleeve that slides over the bottom of the strut could allow for this. just a piece of flat stock bent the shape of the strut and bracket with a cup welded to the bottom of it would work i think and hold the strut just fine. this bracket would have the strut bolt holes located XX amount lower than stock.

for the rears we have those easy to remove cradles that bolt right into the axle. now.. i aint looked to see if we could effectivly lower the mounting points but i do not see why we couldnt. ideas?

id like to see something made up so most people could do use these sleeves/relocated rear axle brackets. this could be a big seller i believe and EVERYONE could use them for a better ride. MARK @ OEM WURYAT?!

thoughts? ideas? lets get this done. my back hurts. im sick and tired of having a craptastic suspension. it's time we roll with the big boys.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 10:28 AM
I've been talking to my brother a lot about relocating the strut to steering knuckle bracket. Though I'm in the same boat (D-specs). Like you stated, Koni's are the way to go when wanting to cut up struts / shocks.

We've also talked about raising my strut towers... though I'm not sure how much room there is to move them.

For the rear end we haven't done much talking. I'm pretty convinced I'll be doing IRS... but if there was a relocation bracket made up, one that allows for more suspension travel AND fixes the trailing arm (causing that god awful wheel location when you're slammed).

I'll be following this post for sure. I'm all for getting more suspension travel.




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Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 10:33 AM
ive been contemplating this for awhile, the problem with the front is that if the strut goes any lower it will hit the cv joint, i believe there is about a 1" clearence.so there isnt alot fo room, but a little bit.

the rear, is possible, if you remove the strut mount bracket and make a bracket that will fit inside the tube, you will need some cutting and welding, but its possible. i wanted to this to my teins so i could increase the wheel travel so i didnt have to have the teins bottomed out and still be higher in the back than the front @ the 1/2 way mark.

heres a pic of the bracket in the back

Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 11:18 AM
Unmodded Volvo DD FTW!!



Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 11:52 AM
^^ lol

looking at that rear bracket i honestly dont see any reason why you couldnt just notch the holes.

as for the cv joint boot being in the way up front, id be happy with 1/2 inch. jeff eyebrow modded his with koni's to have a lower mounting point and said its close but also said his rides like stock. so maybe we only need 1/2 inch more travel? surely 1/2 inch would at the very least, help....

another idea for the front... it would take ditching the stock upper mounts for camber plates but mounting the strut tube pillowball bracket higher up in the camber plate i think would work. surely there's a bit of room to be had there before it hits the hood... 1/2" here, 1/2" there type deal.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 12:04 PM
Ill look into this. Shouldnt be a problem at all from what I am thinking.

Mark


http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 12:30 PM
the rear bracket is threaded on one side, but i suppose you could cut the threaded part off and move the hole down a little more. hmmmm
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 12:59 PM
yea lol exactly. its a wonder why only one person has done this in our entire history. its not rocket science... you decrease the amount of travel a strut has the car is going to ride like donkey dick. you increase, or give back some of that travel your ride quality will become better, champagne will fall from the heaven's and naked girls will surround your car.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 1:01 PM
I tried to do the front. You can't move the front down without hitting the cv. It's very close as it is.

Jeff was able to do it because he moved it down alot more then the modest drop most people do.

I may try it in the spring and see how much or how far I have to go to get the clearance. But I'm sure it'll be beyond level control arms.
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 1:25 PM
Ground control makes rised upper mounts for the integra / civic. I've heard that these put pressure on the wrong places though... could be wrong.
Like said before. IDK how much room there would be to raise them... but every 1/2" will make a considerable difference.

A set of these would definitely help... if it's possible to make them for our cars.




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Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 1:54 PM
Philly D wrote:

I tried to do the front. You can't move the front down without hitting the cv. It's very close as it is.

Jeff was able to do it because he moved it down alot more then the modest drop most people do.

I may try it in the spring and see how much or how far I have to go to get the clearance. But I'm sure it'll be beyond level control arms.


huh? that doesn make sense... the lower you go the more angle the axles will see, pushing them closer to the bottom of the strut, right?

i wish jeff would post pics of his setup.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 2:21 PM
here are the best pics i could find of jeff's setup.... looks like he only added about 1/2" to me...
with the koni's they have the bolt head at the bottom... we non-koni people would not have that and would have that extra clearance on the axle boot. plus.. his car is SUPER low. those axles are nearly touching the damn body LOL our's wouldnt be that close.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, September 14, 2012 2:23 PM


I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 2:22 PM
We can do top mount but you would need to clearance your hood.

Like so.

http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/91se20g20nxf1.html


http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 2:57 PM
brad are you talking about running stock springs then?

changing the mounting point on the struts without increasing travel (aka a non-lowering spring) isn't going to improve ride quality, it will just lower the car more.

hence why coilovers with separate preload/height adjustment work better than those that do not. (think std, b&g vs tein, ground control, rksport, etc) the separation allows you to lower the car without losing travel.




Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 3:51 PM
strat81 wrote:

brad are you talking about running stock springs then?

changing the mounting point on the struts without increasing travel (aka a non-lowering spring) isn't going to improve ride quality, it will just lower the car more.

hence why coilovers with separate preload/height adjustment work better than those that do not. (think std, b&g vs tein, ground control, rksport, etc) the separation allows you to lower the car without losing travel.


exactly what I was thinking.

You can raise or lower the mounting location and you will just raise or lower the car.

Wouldn't you need to go with a different spring and strut?


It really sounds like you need to just invest in a good strut to begin with.



FU Tuning



Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 4:03 PM
Lowering springs + struts = loss of suspension travel
Moving the mounting points = suspension travel gained.

I'd rather move some mounting points than spend $1100 on another suspension set up.




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Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 4:29 PM
^^^ exactly. the spring height dictates where the car is going to sit. basically i wanna gain the travel when the strut rod comes up and out of the body. by lowering the mounting point of the strut, it pulls the rod up and out of the body a little bit more, allowing it to move in and out that much more. think out of it you ran stock springs on the car. this is the reason why putting lowering springs on stock struts is no beuno.. because they are not designed to be able to effectively work where the strut rod is then located. the only reason the aftermarket struts we have available CAN take the lowering springs is because they are designed to handle less movement and a wider range of movement. but just because they have more movement doesnt mean the ride wont suffer. this is why they make them adjustable as well, to try and dial some of the movement that was removed by using lowering springs back in. think about it, if they were designed to handle a drop, they most certainly can handle more movement by changing the mount location.

and john what exactly do you mean? dspecs ARE a quality strut. but you can have the best strut in the world.. if it hasnt got the travel it should the ride quality is going to suffer.





Edited 3 time(s). Last edited Friday, September 14, 2012 4:31 PM


I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 5:09 PM
^^Unless your using coilovers your not going to gain anything by doing this other then being lower. If your using coilovers it will be similar to what you can do with the dual ride height adjustable coilover systems. where you dont change the preload on the spring.


But if you plan on using the sportlines you just bought lowering the mounting point wont alter the strut travel.

That being said.

Jeff built his own strut tubes for his Konis. Those arent stock tubes. I cut the brackets off my stock tubes and tried lowering raising the mounting point and wasnt really able to without hitting the cv.

**This is true, which is what I started to do initially too, but noticed they bottom out alot on factory sized struts as it was. It also was not low enough.

The tubes have been made so that I got another .250" drop out of them, as well as gained an extra 1.400" of travel through a few minor movements and placements of things. Im sure I could have gained more, and Im sure I could still gain more - even by running a different strut insert. I didnt do a whole lot of research on this idea, and worked with what I had. Sure if I happen to not be paying attention for a second and come across a deeply sunk manhole cover - it will bottom out, but 99% of the time I couldnt be happier with it.

I never said I had a rediculously complicated setup - I just sat down for a few hours spread out over a couple of weeks, planned and had Jason machine the tubes. Worst part of the whole thing was removing the stock spindle mounts.

And the tubes are not the "only thing custom"

The perch which the spring sits on, is 1.500" lower then a GC mount, and Im running modified 00+ mounts which allowed me roughly another .500" drop.

*****Tubes: http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=46&i=456985&t=455721&p=8
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 5:13 PM
Oh and here is the quote from Jeff stating how you get more clearance if you go real low.

This is the magic part of the whole thing, they were built to accomodate the extreme angles that the cv shafts are on - you actually gain a chunk of clearance with that angle.

i.e. If the car had say anything from a 2-3" drop the cv shaft would actually rub on the bottom of the strut housing, when I lift the car up, they rest on the cv boot. But when the car is lowered, lots of clearance.
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 7:26 PM
that doesnt make sense phil, if the axle goes up it comes closer to the strut, if it goes down, it goes away from the strut. how can he change the laws of physics lol



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 7:31 PM
$1200 for a good suspension?

Since when did Koni's cost that?

Dpsec's might be a name brand, but for your setup that are not the best.

Also if you lower the mounting point the strut will still compress in until the spring takes enough weight/load off, which will still be the same point it is stock.



FU Tuning




Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 8:19 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

that doesnt make sense phil, if the axle goes up it comes closer to the strut, if it goes down, it goes away from the strut. how can he change the laws of physics lol


Hey man...im just going from what Jeff said and my own experiments.

Im going to listen to the guy that has done it. Think about it though......the drive axle will create clearance if you think it through. Your correct until the axle is level. Once the frame of the car starts going below the axle it starts moving away from the strut.

In the end there is no cheap or easy way to do what your trying to do. And like ive said. It doesnt help in any way unless:

a) your trying to lower it on close to stock spring heights but look low
b)your trying a home made dual ride height adjustment on a coilover setup. Letting the strut have more travel due to different mounting positions.
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Friday, September 14, 2012 9:12 PM
Tinkles(KGM) wrote:

Unmodded Volvo DD FTW!!







JBO Stickers! Get yours today!
Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Saturday, September 15, 2012 5:38 AM
brad... as stated, you don't gain more travel unless you have a spring that is taller or a set of coilovers where you can keep preload on the spring.

lowering springs + lower mounts = same amount of travel but lower to the ground

the range of motion is also not the only reason the stockers are "no bueno" on lowering springs. in addition to moving the distance of travel, you also have a stiffer spring rate which requires more damping. Most of the aftermarket struts have adjustable damping to allow you to tune one strut for a variety of lowering springs with different spring rates.



Re: Modding the suspension for more travel....
Saturday, September 15, 2012 5:58 PM
If this was a spring/shock combo like the chevette, it would work fine. The springs don't seat/sit on the shocks/struts. On a J body, they ride ON the strut, so lowering the strut lowers the spring with it, not giving the strut any more travel, unless you're comparing lowering springs/stock mount vs. stock springs/lowered mount. Kinda like drop spindles vs lowering springs.


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