How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System - Page 7 - Boost Forum

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Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:55 AM
regardless we will have to use an aftermarket manifold. sucks to hear but its gonna be the best option.




Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:58 AM
Vincent Morris wrote:

regardless we will have to use an aftermarket manifold. sucks to hear but its gonna be the best option.



couldnt you just block the hole in the head or manifold and still use the stock manifold? then you wouldnt be boosting the crankcase at the least but then try and adapt brian's modification to the drawing and use it on the eco.






Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:25 AM
Well some of you doubting Chris's way of this setup Ill tell you its working pretty good for me. Overkill or not.

My setup before all this.

HO mani with hole in the head blocked = Oil issues, oil all over the cam towers and head. 6 months

Then I drilled a hole in the HO mani to match the pcv hole= no more oil issues, no more puddles of oil collecting on the head. 9 months

Chris's way= Better throttle response, car goes better with less touch of the pedal now, feels like I have more go when initially stepping on the pedal. Im sure I wont have any oil issues still.

All in all im sure there is a few ways to do this PCV setup. Go with whats best for you.











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:07 PM
You have half of my idea David... you didn't do the 2nd check valve with vaccum to the turbo intake for vaccum under boost! What you've done is Skillz / Brians original suggestion 2 years ago.

My method is to just take it a step further. Overkill? Yup... but I like overkill.

Glad this post can help some ppl out tho. I really hope it helps guys with ecos with the stock manifold and turbochargers because they were doin the most damage for themselves. (i.e vince)

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:37 PM
SweetnessGT wrote:

You have half of my idea David... you didn't do the 2nd check valve with vaccum to the turbo intake for vaccum under boost! What you've done is Skillz / Brians original suggestion 2 years ago.

My method is to just take it a step further. Overkill? Yup... but I like overkill.

Glad this post can help some ppl out tho. I really hope it helps guys with ecos with the stock manifold and turbochargers because they were doin the most damage for themselves. (i.e vince)

-Chris-


Chris, i almost feel like i should post the China comment i made in our convo from earlier, about how being over protected is never a bad thing lmao...



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:42 PM


With it ran like drawn up........ your reducing your PCV system to working about >50% of the OEM design.

The GREEN line is the actual VENT of the PCV system! WHY would you need a catch can there if it wasn't? What are you CATCHING from the "filtered" FRESH air? The GREEN line should go from the Crank Case Vent (IE: Timing Chain Cover OR A/O Separator) to a suitable CATCH CAN, to a location between the TURBO and AIR FILTER. MANY vehicles that do not run a intake on their turbo, simply VENT THIS PORT on the catch can (like in the pic above).

The RED line is the line MOST worried about on this forum. When using the HO manifold, you end up blocking that off. In a BOOSTED application, you end up Pressurizing the block if its not blocked (or check valved). The RED line, to work as designed, needs to be check valved and ran to the Intake MANIFOLD, THATS IT. If your including the OEM A/O Separator in your PCV System, this RED line needs to go to there. If your running a aftermarket Catch Can, you can TRY adding a port to the lid of the can, but W/O A CHECK VALVE ON THE GREEN LINE, YOU WILL GET A HIGH IDLE (you want to add vacuum to the can, but not draw in fresh air from the intake). WHY is there a check valve all the way out by the filter? There is NO BOOST there anyway? This is where the GREEN LINE needs to go, not the RED. THERE WILL BE SMALL AMOUNTS OF OIL THAT MAKE IT INTO THE RED LINE IF RAN TO THE A/O SEPARATOR. TO REDUCE THIS, YOU SHOULD MAKE SURE TO PLACE IT AS CLOSE TO THE OUTLET AS POSSIBLE. IF YOUR THAT ANAL, ADD THAT SECOND CATCH CAN AND WATCH HOW MUCH OIL YOU CATCH BETWEEN OIL CHANGES, OR RUN A NIPPLE WITH A BRASS FILTER INSIDE IT, AND PLACE VERTICAL ON THE SEPARATOR LID.

THE OEM AIR/OIL SEPARATOR SYSTEM IS NOT DESIGNED FOR BOOSTED APPLICATIONS. IT DOES WORK, BUT IT CAN NOT BE 100% OIL FREE (oil blow bye coming out of the "vent" tube on the a/o separator). SIMPLY REPLACING IT WITH A CATCH CAN, OR ADDING A CATCH CAN TO THE SYSTEM WILL ELIMINATE MOST OF THE OIL LEFT IN THE CRANK CASE FUMES. ITS UP TO YOU IF YOU RUN THE VENT BACK INTO YOUR INTAKE, OR SIMPLY "VENT" IT.



In this pic, your using the OEM PCV System as designed, keeping boost out of the crank case, and adding the EXTRA catch can to catch any oil still left suspended in the vapors.

I would personally bypass the OEM A/O separator completely, and replace it with a catch can system. The volume of blow bye a boosted motor will see, is drastically more then what the OEM system was designed for anyway, and the reason for many of the "oil leak" issues could be from the hose from the Timing chain housing to A/O Separator.

Sweetness's design will keep oil from entering the intake manifold or turbo, but not increase the effectiveness of the PCV System. . Its not working any better then a system with a small filter on the A/O separator in the first place. To actually evacuate the vapors, the green line needs to be run to the intake. The red line will assist in evacuating the blow bye the engine see's while idling, and at partial throttle.



gmanz24 wrote:

Vincent Morris wrote:

regardless we will have to use an aftermarket manifold. sucks to hear but its gonna be the best option.

couldnt you just block the hole in the head or manifold and still use the stock manifold? then you wouldnt be boosting the crankcase at the least but then try and adapt brian's modification to the drawing and use it on the eco.


EXACTLY!!!! Block the port on the head for starters. Now where does that "chamber" go to on the Eco? I dont have one sitting in front of me at the moment, to look. I'm 99% sure there is SOME place you can add a nipple, much like the pic posted of the 2.4 A/O separator lid above, and run that to a Vacuum source (with a check valve to keep boost out). Even if that means drilling and tapping the block to add it (OMG NO!!!!! That would be way to easy! I mean, how can I drill a hole for a oil drain in the pan, but not a hole to a hollow chamber in the block!)






SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '78 Opel Kadett W41 Swap

Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:06 PM
As stated brian, I would prefer to put the green line back into the turbo intake (as that is how I have it now) i just wanted to personally make sure no oil came out of that line whatsoever before I did. I've had oil in that line for 3 years even with a catch can.

That green line is an inlet and a vent under certain conditions, as I stated many many times before.

And this PCV system is something I conjured up looking at plenty of forums, this is a modified version of one that is being used on honda-tech.

To get the most effectiveness would be to put the green line back into the turbo intake - I agree

All I'm doing is allowing the "hole in the head" to vent under full vacuum, just as it would do in an n/a engine. It is under more vaccum than the "vent" that runs to the stock intake even at wot.

I think we'll just have to somewhat agree yet disagree! I think it's time we just sat down at the bash again and had some beers until 6am.

-Chris-


-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:25 PM
i yet still haven't put any more boost to my cavalier! So if i block the hold on the head which is under the intake manifold (stock) correct ? then what do i do? put a nipple where and do what? im very slow when it comes to learning. haha I understand the check valve and the vaccuum line but i do not under stand at all about the nipple or the drilling the hole in the block for what reason. Please help me out
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:00 PM
Ya...Um... My 95 has no problem running a free aired "breather" (as all pre 72 cars did) as did the 96 T\G drag car.... both use little to no oil (under a quart per 3-5K)

Chris





'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:11 PM
SweetnessGT wrote:


That green line is an inlet and a vent under certain conditions, as I stated many many times before.

On a single cylinder engine, yes. It would be an inlet (during compression, the piston stroke up would draw air into the engine) at certain times. In this case, 4 cylinders, 2 moving up as 2 move down, canceling out the "suction" a single cylinder engine would see. In this case, especially with boost, its seeing more blow bye pressure then any "Suction" from piston movement.

SweetnessGT wrote:

And this PCV system is something I conjured up looking at plenty of forums, this is a modified version of one that is being used on honda-tech.


Link?

SweetnessGT wrote:

To get the most effectiveness would be to put the green line back into the turbo intake - I agree

The small line going to the intake is going to contribute nothing. The air filter will be less restrictive, hence no "Vacuum" being applied under normal operation.

SweetnessGT wrote:

All I'm doing is allowing the "hole in the head" to vent under full vacuum, just as it would do in an n/a engine. It is under more vacuum than the "vent" that runs to the stock intake even at wot.

"Full Vacuum" is when the T/B plate is closed. In the "STOCK" system, the hole in the head see's 100% vacuum, applying that to the A/O Separator, helping to draw crank case fumes/blow bye into the A/O Separator chamber. When the T/B opens up, the Intake manifold see's the same "Vacuum" as the intake pipe would (in a N/A system, everything post filter see's the same pressure, in the Boosted situation, that section would be positive w/o the addition of the check valve), thats where the larger (IE: HIGHER VOLUME) hose comes into effect. Under OE Design, the port in the head and the large tube in the intake see the SAME PRESSURE CHANGE. This is when the PCV System works to its fullest, drawing out the vapors from the crank case, into the separator, and then back into the intake. If vented to the atmosphere, it relies on the positive pressure in the crank case to force its way out of the engine.

SweetnessGT wrote:

I think we'll just have to somewhat agree yet disagree! I think it's time we just sat down at the bash again and had some beers until 6am.

I admire your dedication to the LD9, and all that you've done. I just believe this is one of those times your trying to hard and over thinking. I wish I could make it to the bash again, I had a blast hanging out with you and Darren!


***FYI, Chris and I get along great, so this "Difference" in ideas is not based on some misplaced hatred between us.***






SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '78 Opel Kadett W41 Swap

Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:21 PM
Well, lets pack up the 95 and go!

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08


Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:44 PM
gmanz24 wrote:

Vincent Morris wrote:

regardless we will have to use an aftermarket manifold. sucks to hear but its gonna be the best option.



couldnt you just block the hole in the head or manifold and still use the stock manifold? then you wouldnt be boosting the crankcase at the least but then try and adapt brian's modification to the drawing and use it on the eco.


idk, pj is looking into it and i trust him to figure it out since he has tore more ecotecs down than i have seen.



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:21 PM
You could just drill and tap the pipe for a 1/2" NPT barb fitting available at Home Depot...

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:58 PM
Question, should I keep that hole I drilled in the HO mani for the hole in the head open? That's the part I'm confused about.










~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:17 PM
Btw, this is how I have mine ran as we speak with the hole in the head and ho mani UNblocked

I still have that small catch can(black circle) before the check valve. Does that catch can even make a difference if its there or not? And Id complete the pcv by running the green line from the bigger catchcan to the turbo intake right?













~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:35 PM
Vincent Morris wrote:

gmanz24 wrote:

Vincent Morris wrote:

regardless we will have to use an aftermarket manifold. sucks to hear but its gonna be the best option.



couldnt you just block the hole in the head or manifold and still use the stock manifold? then you wouldnt be boosting the crankcase at the least but then try and adapt brian's modification to the drawing and use it on the eco.


idk, pj is looking into it and i trust him to figure it out since he has tore more ecotecs down than i have seen.



well idk how to get any simplier than that with still keeping your stock manifold. if you block the hole than you will not be pressurizing your crankcase with boost through it, there is the main problem solved, then brian stated how to take care of that blocked hole by pretty much relocating its vent hole by drilling along the path somewhere else.






Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:23 PM
pj was telling me tonight, same concept yes. but an LD9 is not an ecotec. we all know this, they are different systems and different motors, its not just as easy and simple as that



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:16 PM
gmanz24 wrote:

Vincent Morris wrote:

gmanz24 wrote:

Vincent Morris wrote:

regardless we will have to use an aftermarket manifold. sucks to hear but its gonna be the best option.



couldnt you just block the hole in the head or manifold and still use the stock manifold? then you wouldnt be boosting the crankcase at the least but then try and adapt brian's modification to the drawing and use it on the eco.


idk, pj is looking into it and i trust him to figure it out since he has tore more ecotecs down than i have seen.



well idk how to get any simplier than that with still keeping your stock manifold. if you block the hole than you will not be pressurizing your crankcase with boost through it, there is the main problem solved, then brian stated how to take care of that blocked hole by pretty much relocating its vent hole by drilling along the path somewhere else.


I've considered doing that. You could drill the hole above the manifold, yet low enough to get clear of the fuel rail and tap it for NPT/-AN.
the L61 hole is actually an oval which makes it pretty tough to deal with.





Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:46 PM
FasterthanaHonda wrote:

SLO CAV (the autoxing one) wrote:




You suck at photo shop, ahahahahaa.
Just kidding, I could'nt even do that, I can use paint though, lol
Anyhow, the line from the catch can to the turbine inlet would see the same vacuum as the PCV inlet, it would have to go to the manifold. And the inlet would act as an exit for blow-by under boost, but there would be no fresh air supply. But you did give me a brainstorm:

Most PCV valves I've seen use a grommet to hold itself in a specifically shaped hole, similar to our IATS. By drilling for 2 PCV valves and running one to the turbo inlet and one to the manifold, then puttung a breather on the stock inlet and running the LSJ gasket, full PCV function would be acheived even under boost. Now the problem arises, needing 2 catch cans and the possibility of failure of the valves.

I want to know, on the Eco, of what importance is the positioning of the PCV in the head, it seems that tapping the valvecover would suck out alot of fresh air because the inlet is so close. I have a spare head somewhere, if I find it I'll blow some smoke through it and find out where it pulls from the crankcase. Unless PJ could do it for me, so I don't have to dig through storage.


here is one like on the Toyota camry's i was talking about. see its threaded. this one is for the toyota solora but its the same part.




Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:13 PM
some people have not paid for shipping if you got them. please do if you received the item... thanks



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 4:39 PM
now i'm worried... i have an N/A 99 Z24, which didnt come with a PCV valve... BUT, i swapped motors and put an ld9 in that HAD a PCV valve... should i be worried? i have a pacesetter header and when i first put it on i could hear air coming out of the pcv hole, so i got a block off plate...

should i be worried?




Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 5:15 PM
Mike Nahodil wrote:

now i'm worried... i have an N/A 99 Z24, which didnt come with a PCV valve... BUT, i swapped motors and put an ld9 in that HAD a PCV valve... should i be worried? i have a pacesetter header and when i first put it on i could hear air coming out of the pcv hole, so i got a block off plate...

should i be worried?


The LD9 does not really have a true PCV valve, it has a PCV system, all LD9's have them.



FU Tuning



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:36 PM
Mike Nahodil wrote:

now i'm worried... i have an N/A 99 Z24, which didnt come with a PCV valve... BUT, i swapped motors and put an ld9 in that HAD a PCV valve... should i be worried? i have a pacesetter header and when i first put it on i could hear air coming out of the pcv hole, so i got a block off plate...

should i be worried?






Thats your EGR! Not PCV!




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '78 Opel Kadett W41 Swap

Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:44 PM
John Higgins wrote:

The LD9 does not really have a true PCV valve, it has a PCV system, all LD9's have them.


LOL.......ahh, nevermind, too easy.....


"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:00 AM
SLO CAV (the autoxing one) wrote:

FasterthanaHonda wrote:

SLO CAV (the autoxing one) wrote:




You suck at photo shop, ahahahahaa.
Just kidding, I could'nt even do that, I can use paint though, lol
Anyhow, the line from the catch can to the turbine inlet would see the same vacuum as the PCV inlet, it would have to go to the manifold. And the inlet would act as an exit for blow-by under boost, but there would be no fresh air supply. But you did give me a brainstorm:

Most PCV valves I've seen use a grommet to hold itself in a specifically shaped hole, similar to our IATS. By drilling for 2 PCV valves and running one to the turbo inlet and one to the manifold, then puttung a breather on the stock inlet and running the LSJ gasket, full PCV function would be acheived even under boost. Now the problem arises, needing 2 catch cans and the possibility of failure of the valves.

I want to know, on the Eco, of what importance is the positioning of the PCV in the head, it seems that tapping the valvecover would suck out alot of fresh air because the inlet is so close. I have a spare head somewhere, if I find it I'll blow some smoke through it and find out where it pulls from the crankcase. Unless PJ could do it for me, so I don't have to dig through storage.


here is one like on the Toyota camry's i was talking about. see its threaded. this one is for the toyota solora but its the same part.




so would this actually work for the ecos?




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