Wooooo!!!!!




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

"street" cars drive to the race track.

Whalesac wrote:Why is this even an issue? Who honestly cares this much about semantics?

.....but in the spirit of adding fuel to the fire: Was the fuel used for that 640whp dyno pull also CARB legal, Bill? I don't recall that being mentioned.

I don't know why it became an issue, Whalesac. I was pretty confident we'd stayed true to the formula for street car by limiting ourselves to not gutting the car, or installing Lexan windows and fiberglass or carbon fiber body panels. I am confident the majority of the enthusiast world agrees, our welded diff aside!

CARB legal? Hell, I don't think the 110 octane we run is street legal in ANY state...much less California, lol! Nonetheless, I am confident that none of the other equivalent street cars we'd be compared against are running 91 octane unleaded either. We even competed in a "Green Machine" category at NMCA in the 90's that did mandate pump gas, but it never really caught on. But you make a good point...there are many shades of grey here in defining street LEGAL cars, so the performance world just keeps it simple by saying what is a street car, and what is a drag car (Lexan, lightweight body, no interior).

By now, we've built several of these 10 second street FWD's on unique platforms like J-body, and they all follow this same basic recipe, one that's been in use for the last 60 years or so:

Weight reduction via removal of air conditioning and power steering
Pump up the engine to 600-700 HP
Install clutch and axles that will hold up
Leave the rest of the car mostly alone, save for suspension upgrades needed to help put down the power
Install slicks when at the track, maybe also skinnies at rear to help with weight

And that's about it. Sprinkle liberally with many visits to the track to optimize the combo, and Voila! Genuine FWD street car that runs mid-tens @ 140 MPH. Bon appetit! Fun and not horribly expensive to achieve.

In each case, the cars we've chosen for this (to date, Neon, 420A Eclipse, J-body) were all the first of their kind to hit the ten-second range. They have also been cars we offer parts for, so they act as rolling testbeds for our products, while also providing great promotional exposure and bragging rights. Inevitably, some private individuals mistakenly feel they are in "competition" with us, and get a hardon about it all...but we can readily shake off such haters, for the folks we DO impress make the results quite worth the effort. As such, the haters are an inevitable but also helpful evil, for they bring us even more exposure in their cries of foul. Ah, the two-edged sword of irony does cut deep!



Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

QWK LN2 (needs an @ss whoopin) wrote:

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:

Boosted2point4 wrote:the word street car is pretty much an opinion. Imo a street car is something you can take out and in joy without getting harassed by the police because your car doesn't fit into local laws, like having full exhaust, proper lighting, legit plates and emissions if your county has them and safety inspection. Welded diff is ridiculous on the street imo too, its bad enough on a rwd car let alone a fwd which uses those wheels to steer. Boost creep your response using anything from nhra rules are irrelevant to any sport compact racing description as they don't have events for us, and since your bring up rules of street car at race events said sunfire wouldn't even fit into what is considered "true street" rules since theres a cap on tire and turbo size.

It's too bad you got so stuck on our differential choice, Brandon. Had you made anywhere near as many drag strip passes as we have with this car, you may have ended up in a similar place with your driveline. That kind of dedication to the 1/4 mile numbers is why we put hundreds of passes on the car, and ended up with a locked differential as the best available choice after shredding the other (very limited) choices available. Perhaps you can make a Quaife or a fake posi live with your car's slower ET's, lower power level, and limited drag strip use. We sure couldn't with our quicker, more powerful and much more drag raced car.

As to opinion on what a street car is, well...regardless of your personal opinions, I've already stated the generally accepted criteria, and Adam's car stacks up nicely. Further, it was street legal, street licensed, insured, and street driven. Neither he nor I have ever derided your car; frankly, we've been pretty congratulatory about it. it's a shame you aren't willing to return that respect.

Bill you really are an egotistical, arrogant, cocky, know-it-all piece of sh!t.... While your company does make some decent products, you are stuck on yourself and in the past. You seem to think that if you write or say it, it is gold. You seriously are full of yourself. Brandon's car IS a street car. My car IS a street car. Adam's car is NOT a street car. Take this as an attack, an opinion, whatever....... I really don't care because you will just twist it however you want to make yourself feel better and make me look like the "bad guy".... I'm tired of you thinking your sh!t don't stink. IT DOES! I guess if it says HACK RACECRAFT (no, thats not a typo) it means its the best no matter what.... I find it really pathetic that you talk down on Brandon's car (a true STREET CAR that is licensed and has passed all state inspections), and try to sh!t trains by saying Adam's car is far more superior, although its really a NON STREET CAR. Adam's achievements are well deserved, and I respect how he carrys himself, but you are nothing but a joke... Lets compare MPH/ET/WHP and then compare build costs, hardware, and all the extra power adders you guys needed to get that extra 5mph...... Oh yeah, WE DID IT ON THE STOCK PCM, while you had to install a full STANDALONE with Nitrous controller to market "Adam's car"...... Your claims are nothing short of pathetic at best....

agreed


RIP Cpl Derek Kerns And Cpl Robby Reyes
24th MEU VMM-261 (REIN) V22 Crewchiefs
11 April 2012 Morocco (African Lion)

QWK LN2 (needs an @ss whoopin) wrote:

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:

Boosted2point4 wrote:the word street car is pretty much an opinion. Imo a street car is something you can take out and in joy without getting harassed by the police because your car doesn't fit into local laws, like having full exhaust, proper lighting, legit plates and emissions if your county has them and safety inspection. Welded diff is ridiculous on the street imo too, its bad enough on a rwd car let alone a fwd which uses those wheels to steer. Boost creep your response using anything from nhra rules are irrelevant to any sport compact racing description as they don't have events for us, and since your bring up rules of street car at race events said sunfire wouldn't even fit into what is considered "true street" rules since theres a cap on tire and turbo size.

It's too bad you got so stuck on our differential choice, Brandon. Had you made anywhere near as many drag strip passes as we have with this car, you may have ended up in a similar place with your driveline. That kind of dedication to the 1/4 mile numbers is why we put hundreds of passes on the car, and ended up with a locked differential as the best available choice after shredding the other (very limited) choices available. Perhaps you can make a Quaife or a fake posi live with your car's slower ET's, lower power level, and limited drag strip use. We sure couldn't with our quicker, more powerful and much more drag raced car.

As to opinion on what a street car is, well...regardless of your personal opinions, I've already stated the generally accepted criteria, and Adam's car stacks up nicely. Further, it was street legal, street licensed, insured, and street driven. Neither he nor I have ever derided your car; frankly, we've been pretty congratulatory about it. it's a shame you aren't willing to return that respect.

Bill you really are an egotistical, arrogant, cocky, know-it-all piece of sh!t.... While your company does make some decent products, you are stuck on yourself and in the past. You seem to think that if you write or say it, it is gold. You seriously are full of yourself. Brandon's car IS a street car. My car IS a street car. Adam's car is NOT a street car. Take this as an attack, an opinion, whatever....... I really don't care because you will just twist it however you want to make yourself feel better and make me look like the "bad guy".... I'm tired of you thinking your sh!t don't stink. IT DOES! I guess if it says HACK RACECRAFT (no, thats not a typo) it means its the best no matter what.... I find it really pathetic that you talk down on Brandon's car (a true STREET CAR that is licensed and has passed all state inspections), and try to sh!t trains by saying Adam's car is far more superior, although its really a NON STREET CAR. Adam's achievements are well deserved, and I respect how he carrys himself, but you are nothing but a joke... Lets compare MPH/ET/WHP and then compare build costs, hardware, and all the extra power adders you guys needed to get that extra 5mph...... Oh yeah, WE DID IT ON THE STOCK PCM, while you had to install a full STANDALONE with Nitrous controller to market "Adam's car"...... Your claims are nothing short of pathetic at best....

Weak, and completely laughable. I've done nothing here today but state fact. They may be facts you don't like to hear, but that's your problem, not mine. As much as it appears to annoy you to hear about it, I do have a lengthy career to back up my qualifications, and decades of accomplishments to back up my talk. Yep, and it's all "in the past", for none of my future accomplishments are yet apparent...duh-hoy! I've walked the walk, so I feel quite allowed to talk the talk.

As to Adam's car being a street car, by all commonly applied standards (the ones that matter) it's most definitely a street car. You not accepting that doesn't particularly concern me, for you have a very apparent chip on your shoulder where I am concerned.

HACK RACECRAFT. How mature. Boy, you're really showing me, lol!

OK, let's compare build costs, ET, MPH, HP. Show me how much YOUR 10.50/140MPH, 640 WHP J-body cost to build. Oh, that's right...you don't have one. How do you propose we compare then? Shall we instead compare Brandon's (allegedly) less expensive, but slower car to Adam's (allegedly) more expensive, but faster car? Hmm. For the sake of discussion, let's say you are right, and Adam's car has more money in it...well then, what part of the logic that it costs more to go faster/make more HP escapes you?

"ALL the extra power adders we needed to get that extra 5 MPH" Wow. OK, let's go there too. You've obviously not paid attention to our car's development threads on this site. Had you done so, you'd know that the 640 WHP is on turbo only, as is the 140 MPH. The single nitrous nozzle was an afterthought, added to spool the turbo duing the 1-2 upshift when we discovered the F23 transaxle's large ratio drop from 1st to 2nd pulls the engine down out of its optimal RPM range, causing our large turbo to sag and lose boost. We didn't have a ratio change option, we didn't want to put on a smaller turbo, so a small shot of nitrous was the perfect solution to spool the big Garrett. The cleverly DFI-controlled nitrous is on for approximately 2 seconds total per pass, and shuts off every time the car gets to 20 PSI boost (about 1.2 seconds at the beginning of 2nd, 0.5 sec at the beginning of 3rd, and 0.2 sec at the beginning of 4th). The nitrous hasn't even been on for many seconds when the car traps 140 MPH at the top of 4th. Nor have we ever used the full 640 WHP on the track, only on the dyno. Those who have followed the car's progress already know all of this. Next time, suggest you do your homework before running your mouth.

Aftermarket EFI? Play with a stock computer all you want...there are also a lot of fast street cars running around with aftermarket computers like our DFI. Different strokes for different folks...a concept you apparently can't get your ginormous head around.

Here's the deal. I could respect your accomplishments, IF they didn't make you think you are King of All that is J, because they simply do not. You dare to compare your LN2 car against Adam's, or even speak of it in the same breath as Brandon's? Hahaha, what kind of 1/4 mile numbers have YOU laid down, big man? Arrogance is THINKING you're the sh!t when you aren't.

You wanna back it up? It's on. Bring your J-body down here to Florida, and let's line 'em up. What, too far to drive? No problem. I'll meet you halfway. I've raced at many tracks in between, and I am sure I can find one you can get to. No, I won't drive the Sunfire hundreds of miles...but I'll drive it the last hundred miles. Run me here at home, and I'll drive it all the way to the track. Just let us all know when (but mostly, IF) you are ready to show you too can walk the walk. We already know you can talk and talk and talk.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edited Monday, March 28, 2011 2:45 AM

Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

As an aside to Brandon, Mr. Big's contention that I talked his car down is a complete lie.

What I DID do is respond to Brandon's contention that our locked diff somehow makes us not a street car. In doing so, I also gave him back some flak by slyly reminding him that his car is not as powerful or quick as ours, and therefore doesn't strain the driveline quite as hard, and this may be why we've had to resort to a locked diff in lieu of other available alternatives. Need I remind those who are easily inflamed...this the web, and when someone flips you some @!#$, it's completely fair to flip them some right back. Doing so does NOT make one a "cocky, arrogant, egotistical piece of sh1t"...and like Mr Sunshine above, anyone who thinks otherwise really needs to take a step back and re-evaluate their anger management techniques.

Guys, fcuk...I know it hurts your feelings that we covered you with Adam's and Cam's cars. So why just lay on the floor curled in a fetal position and cry about it? Get your asses in the shop, and out to the track, and BEAT us. Cam is trying to, and he doesn't sit here and whine. Chances are he will be the one that does finally cover our numbers, because he works hard at it and will deserve to.

Wow. Drive it to the track, trailer it to the track, hell, I don't care...BUILD it at the track and drive it home! But stop talking sh!t, and start DOING sh!t.




Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

As a side note Bill, any word on my CryO2 line u borrowed?




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

Even though I'm not a forum guy and I'm only jumping in the middle of this flame fest... I just have one point I'd like to put aside and that's the funding issue. You're all choked up because Adam was privy to his father's company and shop and all of the rest. That may be true but keep in mind that you are privy to your resources that someone making minimum wage is not. Does that invalidate your car to theirs? Your car would stomp mine I'm just stock and am only just throwing a CHEAP turbo kit together for this daily. You may make the statement that he's had a huge advantage and for Adam or Bill to refute that would be ludicrous but that doesn't make what they've built a piece of sh*t. We all have the hands we're dealt and we make the best of it and you garner more respect for having been able to do what you did having less available to you but don't think you're going to put egg on Lamborghini's face. Everyone else in world is still going to laugh and say it's a J-body. Why do you care what anyone else thinks? My true project car I'm building for myself and I even used to visit a different forum for it regularly but I got sick and tired of the so called "Guru's" on the forum shooting everyone down. They were prejudging projects that weren't even under way for being a big mistake without having REAL experience with the ideas proposed. That's just wrong and I was fed up with it I still plan to finish since I'm NOT a wealthy man it's taken a long time but I'll be proud of what I've finally accomplished and don't care what anyone else thinks about it.

Roofy wrote:As a side note Bill, any word on my CryO2 line u borrowed?

Ah...crap. Red cheeks here.

Let me spare you the litany of excuses, just offer another apology, and go right now to check my PM box for your address. I am making a note on the old Blackberry to follow through on this tomorrow....hoping that I don't blow you off again!



Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:

Roofy wrote:As a side note Bill, any word on my CryO2 line u borrowed?

Ah...crap. Red cheeks here.

Let me spare you the litany of excuses, just offer another apology, and go right now to check my PM box for your address. I am making a note on the old Blackberry to follow through on this tomorrow....hoping that I don't blow you off again!

Haha, no problem. Just either gonna re-install it on my sunflower, or sell it. Thanx!




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:

Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

Quote:


As to what makes a street car, the criteria accepted by those in the know are what I've stated above, and not a matter of my opinion...or yours, or anyone else's for that matter. The racing organizations agree, from NHRA to NMRA to NMCA and others

Bill simple fact is those organizations do not define what a street car is. Maybe in their racing series they do but not in real life, for real driving.

Bill some questions for you. I have a feeling you won't answer them, but here goes. Did Adam pay Hahn racecraft money for the turbo kit? Did he pay Hahn for the install, dyno time. I'm asking did he pay actually money to your company, not that he wrenched on the car, or spent time in the shop, did he pay Hahn for the parts and work?

The definitions used by the racing organizations are founded in good reason and logic, and based on decades of experience. It should go without saying that is why they've been adopted by myself and thousands of other racers and buildersin this business. You can argue all day long about whether or not you agree with those definitions, but the majority of genuine racers and enthusiasts do, and that's naturally why we do too. This is not to say your opinion doesn't matter (I know nothing of your qualifications, credibility or history in this department, but feel free to share), but when weighed against the overwhelming body of evidence and standards, the path we chose is the accepted one.

You're right on the other questions...the financial relationship between my son and I is complex, and indeed a private matter. We built and campaigned his car as a team, and that's all that's really pertinent. While I am impressed at your audacity for asking such questions, they certainly don't have any bearing on this discussion.

Bill simple fact is those rules you claim to be right are not law. When pertaining to street legal we should be taking about laws, not what you or I think.

My questions do pertain to the overall back and forth crap in regards to the Hahn Sunfire. It always comes up that it is a company backed car, yet you always say it is not. My questions pertain to that. I'm not asking for amounts paid, but if money's, cash, checks, payment in US funds were made for parts. Truly I think it was not and it was a father son project that the father owned a performance company that made most products used. So yes it was company back. Was it GM level backed no, but more backed than Cam's car. Big difference. Still the things the Hahn car did made are very impressive because it showed alot of what the Hahn products can do. Is it as impressive as a car running 11's, and that same car could win a car show hands down, and you could eat off the engine bay. Also with a motor no longer made and not as much aftermarket support, with no company backing. From a company who's products are in use on the other car probably not.

You're certainly free to have your own personal favorite car, and I am not at all offended if it isn't ours, even if ours is the quickest and most powerful. Just as I've never said anything but praise for Brandon's car to date, I'd expect you to not try and justify your own favorite by talking down others...and THAT, my friend, is the gist of this silliness. Choose your favorite, judge it on the strengths you perceive it as having, but don't try to make it better by talking other cars down. Just as you like a car that is relatively quick but is a showpiece, others may prefer ours that is quicker but slightly less showy and more utilitarian. Sure, Adam and I would like to make it a showpiece, but we prioritized HP and 1/4 mile performance over that. That was our choice. That choice doesn't make our car any "better", or any worse, but it DOES make it quicker and more powerful. Saying that isn't an ego trip.

I do make distinctions about our car compared to GM's amazingly well-funded Sport Compact efforts because in terms of resources, I am MUCH closer to you than I am to them! Fact is, we don't print money here at Hahn RaceCraft. While we do OK, success in this business does not ensure riches, at least not of the financial kind. A reality check where Adam's car is concerned is this: it's FAR from the most radical thing we are capable of building, and also far from the most expensive. It's also never made a pass at the 640 WHP level, as our racing season unfortunately ended prior to cranking it up that high on the dyno. Most passes were in the 580 WHP range. I can take you around any import race and show you dozens of similar cars that have considerably more money in them than our Sunfire. Persistent rumors that it's fast because it has an unlimited budget are completely false, and do ignore the basic fact that it's fast mostly because it's a damned good platform and we are good at what we do!

Now, here it comes again...there I go, demonstrating this so-called "big ego" because I said we are good. LOL, here's the funny part: We get abused by some for this alleged "unfairness" that as an experienced manufacturer/race shop, we are "too good". Yet, when I offer that we are fast because we are good, some haters call me egotistical and arrogant. Anyone would agree...this one just drips with irony. Yes, we are good. Statement of fact. And yes, we should be good...after all, we've been at this a long while. I started to play with turbocharged four cylinders engines in 1975, and my late father was doing so well before that. Think about that for a moment. Since 1975. I was THIRTEEN when I become involved in turbo combinations, and I am 48 now. And NO, saying that is not arrogance, lol!

As with all of our ten-second street FWD cars, we intentionally held back in many areas to PREVENT the Sunfire from becoming an ultra-expensive affair, for a megabucks car would, of course, prove little. In addition to all stock glass, steel body, and full interior, it has stock struts and coilovers, a stock unported head with stock valves, a stone-stock trans (save for that apparently controversial welded diff, lol), stock radiator, and as many of our off-the-shelf parts as possible This is FAR from a no-holds-barred car. Sure, it also has a lot of what we are capable of creating, but THAT'S what it was intended to showcase.

At the end of the day, it's not really comparable to the average Joe's (or Brandon's) car. Each car was built for entirely different reasons. Unless said average Joe is in the same business as us, developing and manufacturing turbosystem components, he is not actually competing with us. He may THINK he is, but he's really not. We aren't out to "beat" everyone, or compete against any privateer. We compete with ourselves, looking for the most we can achieve. Of course, it's nice to end up on top, especially when we work very hard to get there. But, the only way this affects average Joe is to give him hope that he also can find more performance, and also show him we are a source for expert-designed and proven components.

Now that's just good, clean fun, no matter how butthurt these (imagined) big-dick contests allow people to become. We did it for fun, we did it for product development and brags, but mostly...we built a lowly but awesomely powerful Street Sunfire for all of you here, to gain the information on how to do so for our customers, and to prove that the J-body is viable and worthy of building to high HP. In other words, to give you all something to cheer over and feel good about! If we're lucky, maybe we'll sell some parts too. God knows we could have picked any number of other easier-to-build cars, but we've always been associated with uniqueness, and we love a challenge. Never gonna build a Civic, just too common, I'd be so bored doing the same thing all the others are doing! So, it rankles some people that our car is fast as all get-out, and they try to find fault. They'll get over it. Or they won't. Suits me fine either way, for mission accomplished, and haters gonna hate!













Edited 10 time(s). Last edited Monday, March 28, 2011 5:15 AM

Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

WoW! I'm impressed. the 1st reply only took 6 edits, and the last 10.... Your replys do nothing to back up my statement about you being stuck on yourself... I think I'm just going to start calling you Shallow Bill.... There is no "chip" on my shoulder, I'm just tired nobody having the balls to tell you how you really come across. You THINK you are God.... Based on your response, it looks like I may have touched a nerve..... I find it amusing as hell you trying to call me out in my car, which is a STREET CAR that is NOT TRACK LEGAL.... None the less, we know my car is much heavier and I started out with the "underdog" engine,... You have no idea how tempting it is to to build an ECO, DRIVE it to Florida and wax your ass... Tell you what.... With my current legal situation, I am in no way able to build another car, but I am sure I have a Cobalt (LNF) or 2 that I could DRIVE to Floirda and do this with... What do you say Bill? Want to have an LNF show-down? We both know I would win this.... Have you figured out how to tune an LNF yet without your crappy and overpriced handheld? I know you have yet to figure out how to tune an E67 PCM.... You may think you do, but I have valid proof that states otherwise... And since I "went there", is this the reason for the Port Fueler development? Was it truley designed because of your lack of knowledge on how to tune a setup with bigger injectors on a stock PCM ? Is that why you are stuck on the idea of the FMU still also? I'm really interested now.... Please tell me Oh Great One.....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

So, is that a "no" then? My offer stands until you either take me up on it or decline it. Then we can discuss yours.

Yay or nay, big talker! This is about the cars we have NOW, the ones in discussion NOW, not some pipe dream your overconfident self wants to fantasize about. Bring your current heap, run our Sunfire with it, or back down. I await your decision.







Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:So, is that a "no" then? My offer stands until you either take me up on it or decline it. Then we can discuss yours.

Yay or nay, big talker! This is about the cars we have NOW, the ones in discussion NOW, not some pipe dream your overconfident self wants to fantasize about. Bring your current heap, run our Sunfire with it, or back down. I await your decision.

Wait the car in discussion are the Hahn Sunfire and Brandon's car, not Ryan's car. Are you afraid of Brandon's car?



FU Tuning

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:So, is that a "no" then? My offer stands until you either take me up on it or decline it. Then we can discuss yours.

Yay or nay, big talker! This is about the cars we have NOW, the ones in discussion NOW, not some pipe dream your overconfident self wants to fantasize about. Bring your current heap, run our Sunfire with it, or back down. I await your decision.

So are you racing on "Hopes and Dreams"? Your response truly shows how big of a dumb@ss you really are! Big Bad Bill Hahn and his "race car" that is trailered everywhere VS a Heavy @ss "Show Car" that is DRIVEN everywhere! My "HEAP" as you call it has driven across the counrtry MANY times, can you say that? NO! You seriously are making me laugh!






P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:So, is that a "no" then? My offer stands until you either take me up on it or decline it. Then we can discuss yours.

Yay or nay, big talker! This is about the cars we have NOW, the ones in discussion NOW, not some pipe dream your overconfident self wants to fantasize about. Bring your current heap, run our Sunfire with it, or back down. I await your decision.

Wait the car in discussion are the Hahn Sunfire and Brandon's car, not Ryan's car. Are you afraid of Brandon's car?

Cute! No reason for fear, for after all...ours IS much quicker and more powerful, and not to be a dick about it (I know how much me stating that fact inflames the "you arrogant bastard!" sector, lol!). However, Brandon's been decent, whereas he-whose-ass-is-about-to-get-its-much-deserved-whoopin' has not...not even close. Brandon's proven all he needs to prove, but Mr. Mouth needs to back HIS sh!t up.

Hell, now that I give it some thought, we never even played all the cards with our car. Its power and potential have nine second passes @ 145-150 written all over it. Perhaps the J community would enjoy a nine-second street J! This current exchange is just enough for me to want to finish what we started with it, and with a silly looking LN2-powered Cav rapidly fading from view behind it to make the experience even sweeter. Hmmm...Adam has some leave coming from the Air Force...the possibilties are VERY alluring.

Still waiting on your answer, Mr. Mouth. Just let me know when to have the Sunfire ready. We can even call it a standing offer if you feel the need to hem and haw and listen to yourself type for a few more days.



Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

Caution: The epicness of this thread may cause tsunamis around the world.

I haven't been able to actually sit down and read this thread but have read enough to post in before it gets locked maybe to say time date location???


Buy my stuff!!! CLICK

R.I.P. Brian Klocke, you will never be forgotten

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:

Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:So, is that a "no" then? My offer stands until you either take me up on it or decline it. Then we can discuss yours.

Yay or nay, big talker! This is about the cars we have NOW, the ones in discussion NOW, not some pipe dream your overconfident self wants to fantasize about. Bring your current heap, run our Sunfire with it, or back down. I await your decision.

Wait the car in discussion are the Hahn Sunfire and Brandon's car, not Ryan's car. Are you afraid of Brandon's car?

Cute! No reason for fear, for after all...ours IS much quicker and more powerful, and not to be a dick about it (I know how much me stating that fact inflames the "you arrogant bastard!" sector, lol!). However, Brandon's been decent, whereas he-whose-ass-is-about-to-get-its-much-deserved-whoopin' has not...not even close. Brandon's proven all he needs to prove, but Mr. Mouth needs to back HIS sh!t up.

Hell, now that I give it some thought, we never even played all the cards with our car. Its power and potential have nine second passes @ 145-150 written all over it. Perhaps the J community would enjoy a nine-second street J! This current exchange is just enough for me to want to finish what we started with it, and with a silly looking LN2-powered Cav rapidly fading from view behind it to make the experience even sweeter. Hmmm...Adam has some leave coming from the Air Force...the possibilties are VERY alluring.

Still waiting on your answer, Mr. Mouth. Just let me know when to have the Sunfire ready. We can even call it a standing offer if you feel the need to hem and haw and listen to yourself type for a few more days.

What the hell would your so called "challenge" prove? That I have a Street/Show Car that CAN drive ANYWHERE and you have a Strip(Not Street Driven car) that you want to trailer to wherever we decide to do this and then drive it the last hour? Keep digging Shallow Bill.... I am enjoying each and every reply you make! I love how you are now picking on an LN2! Its hillarious! The crap you spew has got me thinking I should write a book.... I will call the "The Book of Hahn" It will be kinda like the Bible with an Author Unknown, but will be better than the Holy Bible because its written about you. There are plenty of quotes on here for a New/Old Testiment as you appear to have some days where reality is there, and others where you are in your own world..... As I stated before, of you want to make a REAL challenge, DRIVE your LNF Cobalt (not trailered at all) somewhere between STL and Florida... We shall see who is laughing at the end.... Lets make this Apples and Apples, not Apples and Bananas.....

Boosted2point4 wrote:I haven't been able to actually sit down and read this thread but have read enough to post in before it gets locked maybe to say time date location???

Settle down Brandon... He feels he needs to prove his point by picking on a "HEAP" with an LN2.....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Guys,

This is getting out of hand. Ryan has an awesome LN2 that I have a lot of respect for because I know he is the fastest 2200 and I am working to be in that catagory (some day hopefully). Bill you have an amazing resume with an absolutely amazing Sunfire. Every one in this pissing match is over looking some details.

Bill your family owns a shop, has unlimited resources, funding, and abilities. You can sell the "its the same category because it's a 4 cylinder" all day but we all know the difference between some one who builds a car in their garage and one who is able to build their car in a professional environment. Look your car is the reason my car sits at S&R performance rather than being toyed around by my no talented @$$. I want the best of the best so I am paying for it because I can not even began to boast talents I do not have.

Ryan, Brandon, Dude you guys are idols in my opinion. Your like the rest of us with dreams and hopes and no budget but you have the ability to do the work and make it happen.

I commend all of the builds in question in this thread, as they are all awesome in their own retro-spec.

Why pin a car that is backed by a money generating shop to a street builder? Can we say David and Gliath? The only suprise in my book would be the under dog being able to over come the the richer budget car. If any one couldnt respect that then you have no enthusiasm.

Bill we understand your car is faster and more powerful. You need to keep doing what you do and stop worrying about who is hating on your project.

The term Street car can mean different things depending on who is taking what angle. Bill your meaning is NHRA specifications not street meaning. To us little guys a "street car" is a car that spends more time on the street driven by the owner and never see's a trailer or get stowed away until the next race. Us "street racers" drive our cars because it's what we have available not because it fits a mold by NHRA standards. Hey what category does my car fit? Half stripped interior, roll cage, fiberglass front end, but tagged, insured and 100% street driven (or atleast thats what the plan is)

You guys can keep fighting back and forth but it's a shame. You all have your own classifications and in the real world saying it's all a J-Body 4cylinder is like saying oil or coke it's all liquid lets drink up. Bill you should be fighting for bragging rights with the likes of other professional build teams like Greddy, Apexi, Innovate or any other shop who can compete with your budget. Im not knocking you for it but to try to bring a professional built car to street fight is below the standards of professionalism. It should be the underdog coming to you not the other way around. Hell we all expect the professional shop to win simply because you can afford it and we know that.

That is my two cents.

I think Bill is picking on the LN2 because he is jealous that Hahn could not make a LN2 work as well as Ryan's LN2. Same for the LD9. Hahn tried to make products for both LD9, LN2 but failed. So they had to move on to a easier platform. Ecotec.

I like the sounds of this. This could be a epic bachelor party before my wedding!!!



FU Tuning

Quote:


I will call the "The Book of Hahn" It will be kinda like the Bible with an Author Unknown, but will be better than the Holy Bible because its written about you. There are plenty of quotes on here for a New/Old Testiment

I got the perfect cover for the new testiment!!



FU Tuning

Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

Quote:


I will call the "The Book of Hahn" It will be kinda like the Bible with an Author Unknown, but will be better than the Holy Bible because its written about you. There are plenty of quotes on here for a New/Old Testiment

I got the perfect cover for the new testiment!!

Nice! BTW, as an added BONUS, each book will come with a FREE W.W.H.D.? bracelet! Just pay seperate handling charges!





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

We could do a Power Tour (JBody Power Tour). Cars have to drive from one track to another and not be trailered. See who is still driving at the end.



FU Tuning

Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:We could do a Power Tour (JBody Power Tour). Cars have to drive from one track to another and not be trailered. See who is still driving at the end.

i like that idea actually.